In the absence of ZK abandoning his duty, lets get the ball rolling

 

2/1 

Bit on the high side 

England will likely be winning another tournament in our lifetime anyway, its unrealistic to think otherwise given its once every two years.  I'm 34, if I'm lucky to live to a very old age that's potentially another 30 tournaments.

Personally I'd prefer them to win the euros over the World Cup, the euros are a regional tournament after all, previously won by the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, Netherlands, Denmark, Greece and Portugal.  If England win it they'll be the 11th different winner in 16 tournaments.

I don't think this will be as bad as people think.  It will be awful for the first year or so right enough, but the World Cup is coming round in 16 months and the English press wont be settling for a one off euros victory, they'll want total domination, and if they don't make at least to the final in either in 2022 or 2024, knives will be out.

A lot of people used to say this about their 2003 Rugby World Cup win, or Murray winning Wimbledon, 2012 Olympics, 2005 Ashes/2019 Cricket World Cup, but we've lived with all those.

having said that I really think Italy can win this, much more upbeat about this than I was for Germany, Ukraine, or Denmark, a lot of people here were much optimistic about those games than I was.

You obviously don’t know how ancient Murph is. 

I fancy Italy to take it. Won’t bother me if England do it but would rather Italy do it.  Even if it’s just for the sweet Caroline nonsense.  

Have a couple of sound English mates and wouldn’t begrudge them the win to be honest. 

 

The concern I would have is that once they get a tournament win under their belts the monkey will be off the back and total domination, considering the players they have, would potentially be on the table. As I've said before even this team, through to the final and getting lauded from all angles by the UK media, have not looked like they've actually enjoyed any of the games and are visibly straining under the pressure. That first tournament win could be a real game changer for them in terms of mentality and it's a big enough worry when you consider the players they have coming through at the moment.

 

Having said all that we've been pretty spoiled over the last few decades with their consistent underachievement/bottling so this is probably due at this stage.

In fairness, this would be the product of the work done over the past decade where they have revolutionised the way football is played in the country. Things like fitness, diet, player development, recruitment etc were focussed on and Southgate is the bridge between the young and the old, after his stint with the Under 21s. Its worth digging deep into the whole st George's Park project to explain how they have got this far. A noteworthy point from last night was after 90 minutes England had made one change, the Danish had made five, yet England looked like they could play for another 90 (and even hooked their first sub). Its the type of approach that made teams like the New Zealand rugby team, or at local level the Dublin GAA as outstanding as they are. It relies on fitness, and high performance to upgrade on the high levels of player talent. Its not just a reliance on raw talent anymore, and the Belgians have made strides on this, although age and fitness did impact them this time round.

You just need to look at the layers of talent they have available to them, if they need to alternate, or responds to different circumstances, and with the EPL stronger in terms of European competition, more and more players are going to have access to high level games, at club level, and moves to teams that will have that on a consistent basis. Even if they dont win this, there is a different culture around English football, and it is an effort to be better on fronts other than just skill. Modern sports is responding to that, and England are the fast adapters.

Sterling must have some levels of fitness, still skinning men in the 120th minute

The performances against Austria and Spain showed they can have off days tho so hopefully they turn up.

Italy will be the best team England have played by far and I think there is more pressure on them to win.

Please don’t f**k this up VAR. Too many home teams in major tournaments have won because of dodgy decisions.

Italy to win by more than wan. 

I've a lot of friends/family in the UK, football fans who support non-big 4 teams, Leeds fans, West Ham fans, Reading fans who have never seen their team win anything in their lifetime. We've all had successes to celebrate between our LOI team, our county winning All-Irelands, United/Arsenal/Liverpool fans winning Champions Leagues/Premier Leagues. I don't begrudge the average English football fan if it does happen. It's bound to happen eventually, as you say, better it be the regional tournament in a year that we weren't involved anyway.

Nah I don't think they'll dominate, there a good side but there's nothing that says to me they'll emulate what France 98-00 or Spain 08-12 did, they're nowhere near the quality of those teams.  If they win this its because they're at home and they've had lady luck shining on them.

Yes they may get the monkey off their back, so it might not be another 55 years before they win another tournament or get to another final, but if I had money I would say if they win this it will be Kane and Sterling's only international trophy.

I also expect Germany to bounce back quickly, Low was the problem primarily, they looked broken and had no desire, but I think Flick who's an excellent manager will get them back to serious contenders, at least by 2024.

It reminds me as Utd fan fretting over Liverpool winning the league, we'll never hear the end of it, and then talk of domination under Klopp once they get the monkey off their back, its early days but it looks like that's not happening thank f**k.

They can only beat what's put in front of them, but they won't get draws like Sweden - Colombia and Ukraine - Denmark forever.

Teams and supporters only ride the crest of the wave for so long, and at that point it is up to the team to win further prizes, or take their place amongst the runners up. If they win, they will enjoy it, and like you say, it becomes hard to begrudge a lot of them. As you say, much of the England support is actually drawn from teams outside of the top table, and in many cases further down the leagues. Look at the flags that appear, they are often emblazoned with the names of lower league teams, or even place names where there is no football team of note.

Like you say, give the usual suspects in the media the swerve, and it will be fine.

I'm sure a lot us of thought Spain would continue to dominate after 2012 for another couple of tournaments, but it's not that easy. Everything has to line up perfectly for a team to win a tournament, never mind 2 or 3 in a row. 

 

As for English lads from lower leagues simple really they have the holidays and cash to travel as the big six club fans follow their clubs in europe as has always been the case .

A  good friend of mine who travelled with England for many years said all you need is two things , time and money .

 Come to think of it i may give up watching Ireland if Galway United become league champions it would be great watching them around europe , hummmm we all have dreams

The Brits are saying that he's got a bad record at Wembley as he lost the 92 European Cup final there when playing for Sampdoria, and the 2013 FA Cup final to Wigan.

 

He did win the FA Cup semis against United and Final against Stoke in 2011 to win City their first trophy in 25 years, so nothing to be read into that

English not BRITS

Chiesa is a nice price 10/1, if Italy wins and he scores on Sunday he could get it

The odd one but not very often. 

They usually don't trouble the keeper, but i seem to remember him scoring one, i could be totally wrong on that

Definitely

I think its 50-50, the home crowd as well as the fitness and pace throughout their team is worrying

Did he not score one last season? I seem to remember laughing at the thought of him taking one then he scored, but he’s not a very good striker of the ball.

I knew he'd scored one over the years

Agree, his technique when shooting is very poor at times for all his good attributes 

Bookies have them as slight favourites.

England and Britain in general have an excellent track record of sporting success on home soil.

1966 World Cup

2012 Summer Olympics success

2019 Cricket World Cup

Andy Murray's 2 out of his 3 majors were at Wimbledon.

Rugby doesn't seem to follow this pattern although they made the final in 91

Being at home is a massive advantage for them and turns them into sporting winners.  They were a penalty shootout away from probably winning Euro 96 as well.

Marty 

Yeah, that's actually me. Ireland will qualify the WC and go on to win it, beating Costa Rica in the final on penalties also.

It is.  England are part of what I would call the 'big 5' in Europe.  Germany, France, Spain, Italy, England.  All have populations close to or over 50 million, the 5 biggest leagues in Europe, all with world class stadia, facilities and resources.  Looking the World Cup/Euro wins for each:

Germany  4 WC's 3 Euros

Italy  4 WC's 1 Euros

France 2 WC's 2 Euros

Spain 1 WC 3 Euros

England 1 WC

Might well add to that on Sunday of course, but they have to improve on that.  Thats who they should compare themselves to.  Those countries all should be winning tournaments once every 20 years minimum IMO.

So the challenge for England after this will be to improve their tournament win ratio, one win every 60 years isn't acceptable for a country of their size.

So Englishborn what are your thoughts for the final?  I know its quite tough reading these forums as an England fan lol, but I'll be the first one to congratulate people like yourself if they pull this off.

It's an Irish forum so, its Brits. And I don't mean that in an offensive way either. I have English friends and I call them Brits all the time. Just like the Brits call us Paddys, who gives a f*ck.

Also a point to add all of those other countries have won the World Cup on foreign soil, Germany and Spain the only 2 to do it on another continent.

No worse than that of Spain, before the emergence of their Golden Generation a decade and a bit ago.

For example, in the 15 World Cups they entered before 2010, they failed to qualify 4 times (1954, 1958, 1970 and 1974) and when they did, never got beyond the Quarter Finals, barring 1950 in Brazil, when they finished 4th.

However, that year they qualified simply with a win and a draw againbst Portugal and once they got there, the competition was weakened by withdrawals and boycotts eg Werst Germany, Argentina, Peru, France, plus USSR and the Soviet Bloc countries.

Nor did they make anything of home advantage in 1982, when they finished 2nd in the Group behind you-know-who, eventually limping to a 12th place finish.

While their record in the Euro's was no better. For example, they failed to qualify for 5 of the first 12 editions. Granted they won it in 1964, but to qualify they only had to win 3 two-legged ties vs Romania, NI and ROI, and once they got to the four team finals, they only had to win a semi vs v Hungary and a final vs USSR (Denmark were the fourth team).

Granted they were Runners-Up in an enlarged 1984 finals, but until they actually won it in 2008, their Euro's record was shabby enough too.

The point being that having finally got their act together ealy this century, they've gone on to become a powerhouse in the world game.

Meaning that there must be a lot of other countries hoping that 2021 doesn't become a springboard for England' under Southgate, the way 2008 was for Spain under Aragones.

Re the above post, I might add that France's record prior to the late 1990's was pretty weak, too.

Anyhow, what I came on here to post before I allowed myself to become distracted(!) was that I think Sunday will go to extra-time, maybe even penalties.

And I wouldn't like to predict which team will eventually prevail, since I don't think there's much between them.

However if forced, I might just plump for England, on the basis that Spain woulod have beaten Italy in the semi-final had they just had a decent finisher, meaning that Kane and/or Sterling might just make the difference?

It's to be expected.

If it was suggested again it would've got shot down straight away I'd imagine. 

Would love if Italy hosted Euro 2028. Turkey have confirmed a bid along with Greece/Romania/Serbia & Bulgaria as a 4 country hosted tournament. 

I'd say Turkey might get it this time, they've bid 5 times in a row though if Italy do decide to go for it I'd say they'd be favourites 

Turkey will never get it sure that's why the came up with the idea for this one so they wouldn't have to give it to them by default as they were originally the only bidders. If Spain or Italy go for it it'll be one of them. (Spanish haven't held a tournament since the 1982 WC)

Apparently Spain's bid would be a joint one with Portugal according to Wikipedia anyway. Would be a nice one to qualify for. 

Next one in Germany should be a good one anyway. 

Not sure which Euro 2020 thread to post on, so putting it here.

I went to the Italy vs. Spain Semi Final at Wembley on Tuesday and bought a souvenir mug.  Looking at it now I've only just noticed;  Is that... The Aviva Stadium?!?   And that's The Spire and the GPO in front of it?!?

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Not only could UEFA not be bothered to changed the name of the tournament to Euro 2021, they left in graphics for host cities no longer staging games.

It just shows what a terrible record England have and especially if you just look at the last 50 years. 

I think the final is 50/50 but hoping the extra pressure on England means Italy win this by 2. 

I don’t get the other posts saying England will win a major tournament in our lifetime. Does that mean Russia / Denmark and Greece etc will also win another?  You have to earn them. 

No doubt, but as I posted earlier, it's really no worse than were eg France until the late 90's, or Spain until the Noughties.

And with both those countries using those periods as a springboard to a whole new level, I feel that win or lose tomorrow, England are showing real signs of (finally) doing so themselves.

In no particular order:

St. Georges Park/Youth development

PL club dominance of Europe

Foreign coaches/ideas imported

Club Academies

Southgate

Money/Resources/Facilities

Sports science/medical/fitness

Media/Fan expectation management

Supportive government (sensing reflective glory, no doubt)

And dare I say it, even the old crusties in the FA might just have wakened up to the 21st century?

Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote: I don’t get the other posts saying England will win a major tournament in our lifetime. Does that mean Russia / Denmark and Greece etc will also win another?  You have to earn them.

Semi Finalists in 2018, Finalists in 2021, Winners in....  ?

Clear progress on display and with a very young set-up, both on and on the field, there's no obvious reason why this can't/won't continue (other than that football doesn't always work like that)

Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote: A lot of people won't be supporting England tonight but as someone who lived there for 10+ years and has an English wife and many English friends and colleagues, I for one will be cheering loudly as they pick up their runner-up medals this evening. before picking up my teeth after my wife is finished with me

Fixed.

Winner:

England - 1.8

Italy - 2.2

Hard to see past England really.  Their momentum is massive with the wind behind their sails its going to take some performance and some bottle from Italy to beat them in front of that crowd.

I don't buy the crowd thing either. Won't take much til the boos come out 

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I don't personally think England will play badly, so Italy will have to play very well to win this.  England played very well in the Euro 96 semi and it took and very mentally strong German team to knock them out.

Where you from Sharpshooter? 

You are very pro Ingerland. 

Odds favour England as the brits are beating heavy on themselves as is their culture.

Italy have the better manager and I think they will handle the occasion better and that’s why they will win.

I live in Omagh lol.  Maybe because I live up north I literally consume the UK media which is basically indoctrinating me to believe that they're going to win, they did the same for the semi final against Croatia.

I'd much prefer to watch it RTE but I can't, I have to try to watch it on mute here.

@andylines

There are terrible scenes at Gate F.  Crushing, fans trying to storm in.

I doubt England would have beaten Belgium or the Spain who turned up in the 1/2 final. 

Calm down tan boy

30 odd games unbeaten so far until tonight so hardly either of the above

Teams are ultimately judged on trophies.  Records like that don't mean much if you don't win anything.

Always felt they would win it.  When Muller missed that sitter I knew their name was on the cup.

Agreed.

All over the place Italy

But I really don't think they would have won this if they weren't at home.

They've had 3 tournaments on home soil, potentially 2 wins and one semi final which they lost on pens.  That's a really good record.

Outside of England though I don't think they're tournament winners.