A boyhood fan of both clubs

60  years since Spurs were. 

Champions League strikes again.

I do have a massive gra' for these sets of players and especially these managers. Bit disappointed for Ajax though, they've been phenomenal.

Also, whatever about Klopp and the job he's done at Liverpool (brilliant job, the best manager in the world imo). What Pochettino has done at Spurs is just something else. CL final. Just think about where they were in the pecking order in European football 5/6 years ago. Imagine someone saying when Spurs appointed Pochettino back then that Spurs would regularly qualify for the CL in the next few seasons, that they'd have a couple of tilts at a title (I know some will question that description), and they'd make a CL final. It is phenomenal what Pochettino has achieved there.

But when you talk about "5/6 years ago", I think you disregard the contribution Redknapp (yes, 'Arry) made in taking Spurs to a higher level after the cataclysm of Ramos and the dross of Gross, Santini and even Jol.

I was at the game where Spurs played Real Madrid (in Madrid) in 2011 and although we were beaten 4-0 (tie over), it was not the game the scoreline suggests. In fact, with  Bale & Co ripping teams apart, Spurs weren't that far short of top billing that season.

Now having said all that, Poch has taken Spurs to a whole new level entirely, but these things don't just happen overnight.

Agreed on Jol. His teams started the process of overtaking Arsenal in terms of league position, which would have been achieved a lot sooner were it not for some dodgy food.

Would've nearly preferred the game next week for us. The couple of times we've had a decent break between games it hasn't done us any good. Playing week to week seems to suits better but form etc goes out the window for finals I suppose

Similar case in most finals these days is it not 

But that won’t count for much on a once off game. It’s

Anybody’s to win.

Going to do the exact same with Liverpool.   

Yep. Seen elsewhere that Villa lost 15 league games when they won it in '82 

Liverpool in season 80/81 were almost as bad in the league, 17 draws and 8 losses led to a 5th placed finish.

I stuck €10 ew on Tottenham at 25/1 before Man City game so I have a few bob already up. Just couldn't put a bet on the Pool in final. In fairness you have better odds on Tottenham anyhow.

Two of the greatest comebacks in European history !!!

You’re hard to please.

Explain.

Have you those flight details please??

Familiarity of the teams. Other than Bayern and Dortmund, same country finalists usually disappoint. And not having Ajax in it just seems have taken the gloss off it. 

I hope I'm wrong 

The lack of competition in the Champions League has to be affecting it a little bit. I have no idea of the viewing figures for it, but they must be way down for the group stages at least ?Ajax offered a little bit of unpredictability, the way Leicester did for the EPL a few years ago, but it is all very staid. People are acting like Spurs getting to the final is a miracle!

For a competition for the 'champions'() of 54 of UEFA's 55 members, it is a bit boring that the only conceivable winners in the future are 10-12 clubs from the same 5 leagues. The 4 EPL teams(from 6 realistic qualifiers) , Barcelona and Real(Atletico at a push), PSG, Juventus and Bayern Munich. 

What odds would you get on a winner outside that group in the next five years? Football fans used to laugh at the European rugby competitions, but they are very similar in terms of competitiveness now.

Isn't that like any sporting competition tough?

I'd imagine competitive balance is falling in all leagues (football) and across sports.

Yes

Basing myself in Valencia - arriving the afternoon of the match and heading back on a train the next morning

Thursday: Dublin-Paris €54

Friday: Paris - Valencia €44

Saturday: Valencia-Madrid train €39

Sunday: Madrid - Valencia train €51

Monday: Valencia - Barcelona train €36

Monday: Girona - Cork €29

Valencia - Madrid train takes 1 hour and 50 minutes

class 

I got a crack squad of Munster rugby supporters to help me with the research

Their reputation for being the masters of planes, trains and automobiles precedes them

However they suggested flying to Stockholm, then Morocco and rowing a boat across to Spain before thumbing a lift to Madrid

I said thanks but no thanks for the advice

I'm not disputing your general point about decreasing competitiveness etc, but it's not just about money and the big clubs using it to dominant the others etc.

We should also remember in the old days, there weren't anything like 54 competing leagues/associations.

Take 1966-67, for example. Even with the USSR participating for the first time, there were still only 36 entrants, inc. KR (Iceland), Esjberg (Denmark), Haka (Finland), Omonia (Cyprus), Valerenga (Norway), 17 Nentori (Albania), Aris (Luxembourg) and Linfield in the 1st Round. 

[There had also been a Preliminary Round involving Sliema (Malta) vs CSKA (Bulgaria) and Waterford vs Vorwaerts (E.Germany).]

Bar CSKA, all of those will have been part-time, or close to it.

Now I'm not saying Celtic didn't deserve to win it - I'm sure they did - but to get to the Final, they beat Zurich, Nantes, Dukla Prague and Vojvodina, decent enough sides, but wouldn't get out of a Group stage these days I suspect.

Even more curious, Linfield got to the quarter final that year by beating Aris and Valerenga. They were eventually eliminated by CSKA Bulgaria, drawing 2-2 in Belfast and losing 1-0 in Sofia. Worse still, they had sold their gk, Iam McFaul to Newcastle before the Quarter Final and his replacement, Moffat, had a bit of a nightmare, I believe.  Of course, had they gone through they'd have faced Inter(!), but even then, CSKA managed two 1-1 draws, before losing 1-0 in a decider, played in Bologna.

Now I don't know what, if anything, that says about the modern Champions League.

But it does suggest that there was a fair bit of rubbish in the "Glory Days" of the old European Cup!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966%E2%80%9367_European_Cup" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966%E2%80%9367_European_Cup  

 

In this day and age having 10-12 possible winners of a competition is rare in sport.

Nice, did you get accom for the Saturday night alright?

Any sporting competition now, yes. That’s my point!

Not staying in Madrid

Accommodation there is bonkers expensive

You're talking €300-€400 just for a dorm bed

Have accommodation booked in Valencia for Friday, Saturday and Sunday

Only getting into Madrid at 5pm Saturday - kick-off is 9pm

Going to pull an all-nighter or kip down anywhere I can

Might look into bringing a sleeping bag though I will continue to look for accommodation in Madrid for the Saturday night as the time comes nearer just in case things start freeing up

Train back to Valencia at 9:40am Sunday arriving 11:24am

Will likely spend all of Sunday afternoon asleep

It's about 130 miles from Madrid with a good train service

Which is exactly the problem with this day and age. The specific problem with this competition is that it used to be incredibly difficult to predict the entrants, never mind the winners.

The reason I still enjoy international football so much, despite the best efforts of those that ru(i)n it, is that it is a meritocracy, or as close as you will find within sport. Whoever produces the best team wins, with the sporting luck and chance that requires. Ireland may have little hope of winning the World Cup due to obvious geopolitical reasons, but there is theoretically nothing to stop us from doing so. If we produce a good enough team and a good enough manager, we will have a chance. Ajax, for example,have produced a capable team that will go on to win the competition for other clubs, no doubt. 

There is no doubt that there has always been teams and clubs with the odds in their favour, but European football was much more meritocratic in the past. Not being from one of the big five leagues was not a block on being European champions. 

Now, I am sure ‘second tier’ or ‘rate’ clubs from countries that produced European cup winners would argue about ‘big twos’ and big ‘threes’ having it sewn up in their countries. The two Glasgow clubs, or PSV, Ajax and Feyenoord, for example,but all these clubs got to being dominant, by and large, on merit.

As for the arguments that it was ‘easier’ to win the European Cup in the old days, I would say the complete opposite. The Lisbon Lions might only get to the group stages now, but this year’s winners wouldn’t even have qualified in 1967. I would also argue that the gap between ‘full-time’ and ‘part-time’ football within the competition wasn’t as big as it sounds by today’s standards. Many finalists and even winners had only moved to professionalism a short time before. Panathinaikos and Feyenoord are two, off the top of my head.

In short, for a continental competition, you shouldn’t have a pool of 12 teams to pick the four semi-finalists for next season, never mind a deade’s time. The fact one of the greatest clubs in the sport nearly caused a surprise in getting to the final bears it out. 

I would be in favour of these 12 clubs buggering off to a super league, it would leave everyone else to get back to football. The only real objections would be financial, as far as I can see, which is why it should happen but why the teams who would benefit the most would be against it. Overall, I think it is worse for the fans. 

I've tried to see what times the first trains leave Madrid on Sunday morning; there's a regional train to Valencia at 06:20. That does require quite a long night in Madrid but, as it takes the old line, it takes almost 7 hours, so you'd get plenty of sleep on it at least, and it's only €28.

If you don't mind not sleeping til after 6am, it might be an option.

The White Cafu wrote: Already have accom booked for very reasonable prices for all nights except the Saturday! Would usually be on the ball with these things but it was a bit last-minute, presume you got a ticket okay if you're only in Madrid for a few hours?

But sure what about it

Though if you have one spare 

Wouldn't be back in Valencia until after 1pm

That's two hours after the fast train gets back

If you know you're doing an all-nighter at least you can pace yourself

Have experience of doing such in Spanish cities previously though I was only a garsun then, it's a bit more difficult to do it now though

Ryanair put an additional flight on direct to Madrid on the Friday which I booked, it's €700 so a chunk of change but we've likely got free accom through friends living there which helps a lot.

I came up with the notion or renting a camper van for the two nights if the accom didn't come though. There is a site which is the equivalent of Airbnb for campers so locals can make money off their personal campers.

Was coming in at €120 a day so way cheaper than the hotels, you can park close to the action and it's a novelty. Anyone looking for accom maybe look in to that?

Me too.

How do you imagine you're going to get peace to sleep on the Saturday night when there's 50k(?) Scousers and Yids all out on the town, most of them without anywhere themselves?

Madrid will be awash in beer, piss and puke, so you won't even get somewhere dry, never mind quiet!

sid waddell wrote: ... though I will continue to look for accommodation in Madrid for the Saturday night as the time comes nearer just in case things start freeing up

I'd love to think the same, but when even Pochettino is struggling to find somewhere for some friends flying in from Argentina, I'd say there's no chance.

Should have said shopping bag

M&S do some lovely padded ones now I hear

Great for kipping down on in overcrowded continental cities

That’s the only night that matters surely.

Have you a budget in mind for a ticket out of curiosity? I saw tickets on a 3rd party site the other day for over €4K with a face value of €60, madness. 

This sounds unreal, neither of us drive but we know a few over there who might park it up for us, what's the name of this site?

Not too bothered about tickets, will certainly not be paying over a few hundred for them so unless there is a miracle I won't be going to the match, neither a Liverpool or Spurs fan so it could be worse!

eh? 

Hopefully have Kane and Winks back even if it’s just options on the bench.

Liverpool were on fire the last few weeks and if the game was this weekend you could see Liverpool winning by 2/3 goals.

I’d still have them as favourites but it should be a closer contest now. 

If you hear of a location in the city to watch the game on a big screen, post it up 

From this link :  https://www.gov.uk/government/news/liverpool-fc-vs-tottenham-hotspur-fc-travel-advice" rel="nofollow - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/liverpool-fc-vs-tottenham-hotspur-fc-travel-advice

Plenty of other information about fanzones in that link but looks like there will be no big outdoor screening.

He’s not played since the 1/4 final which seems a long time ago now. It would be great to have him on the bench.

Winks is also hopeful so could have a full squad to choose from.

Quite a bit has popped up over the past week, Other fans who booked with free cancellation cancelling it I presume. Managed to get a 4 star hotel 10 mins from the city centre for €140 each from Thursday to Monday by checking booking every hour or so in work, so definitely worth still looking if anyone has something expensive booked with free cancellation.

€350 for a room in a hotel less than 10 minutes walk from the stadium, and a four star hotel at that, for Saturday night.

There have clearly been a lot of cancellations. There are loads of hotel rooms now available.

You can also book hotel rooms for the 2020 final in Istanbul right now for €20

Just seen TWC's post, above.

Bloody ridiculous that they don't have big screens at the fanzones, to keep fans without tickets from both clubs from going out towards the stadium anyway.

Fanzones are for bed wetters 

2. I don't have a bed in Madrid, wet or dry. 

1 fair point - one I have used myself when I come to think of it 

2 being bored this morning I checked booking..com and prices were certainly affordable 

Rooms will be about ten times that once Liverpool reach the final again (every season Klopp has managed Liverpool in Europe, they've reached the final)

Not in 2017 they didn't

Indeed Denis. I believe that 2017 was the only time Klopp lost in a 2 legged European tie as Liverpool manager. Oh wait...

700 all in 2 nights in city centre hotel

Dublin Zurich Madrid  Friday

Madrid Munich Dublin Sunday

Once you throw a few plastic chairs at the dagos you be grand

I don't think that's quite true. Spurs have a huge London fan base. Liverpool also have a large contingent of local supporters. They've traditionally been the Protestant club in the city, whereas Everton have tended to attract the Irish emigrant support.

Damon Grant in Brookside was a Catholic and he supported Liverpool !!!

PS The 1890’s rang......

Also as you’ve brought religion into it why havent you mentioned that Spurs have a large Jewish fanbase. Or is it just Protestants you hate ?

f**king hell 

absolute rubbish , i have been to hundreds of games in london, chelsea , millwall ,etc etc  and I never once heard any supporter say anything against supporters who came from other countries, they like that fact the foreigners follow their team, you're talking sh*te 

Wow 

Not really sure where you've got the idea that I "hate" Protestants.  In fact, I am one so that just shows how ridiculous your comment is.  The point I was making is that Liverpool rely on a strong local support from the city of Liverpool, whereas there is a perception (rightly or wrongly) that Everton are the Irish club in the city.

As for the Jewish connection at Spurs, I think that's been well documented over the years and serves to illustrate the club's strong connection to North London.

it was you walls wasnt it ? 

I don't know you so wouldn't know that but am delighted to hear it.

Just assumed you were another bigoted Celtic fan.

 

Yes its true most Irish people have no idea of the historic connections with English clubs.

They all like to claim an Irish connection.

Like I cant understand Irish people supporting Chelsea and I know a good few.

 

Most Irish immigration to Liverpool was between 1845-1850 long before Everton FC (1878) or Liverpool FC (1892) we’re formed.

The traditional Catholic area was between the Dock Road and Scotland Road (Vauxhall), the traditional Protestant area was around Netherfield Road (Everton), the unofficial border between the two communities was Great Homer Street.

The two communities were nearly all rehoused between 1945 and 1965 and scattered to newly built estates on the outskirts of the city, Netherton, Kirkby, Croxteth, Cantril Farm, Huyton, Netherley, Halewood and Speke. This is credited with largely bringing an end to the sectarian divide in the city.

Certainly by the 1970’s and 1980’s Everton FC and Liverpool FC both had near enough 50/50 Catholic/Protestant support if the Celtic/Rangers chant (1970’s) or the number of half and half hats (1980’s) was anything to go by.

Went to about 60 games at Anfield (Road End in the 70’s and the Kop in the 80’s) and about 40 games at Goodison Park (Gwladys Street End) between 1975 and 1984. 

London is a bit different, clubs like Spurs, Chelsea, West Ham and Arsenal have virtually no support that walks to the ground. There is definitely that attitude at Liverpool, or there was anyway. Plenty of references to ‘wools’ and day trippers.

Chelsea and West Ham fans tend to hate all foreigners though, including their parents in some cases.

I did, my own tweet. 

Older Celtic fans often have a soft spot for Everton and a deep dislike for Everton. Testimonials and Hillsbrough changed things, but I remember being in Baird’s in ‘03 when it was attacked by Scouse ‘loyalists’.

It is f**king mental that Glasgow is still divided in the way mentioned by schooling and so many on both sides still want it to be!

 

Sounds like a love-hate relationship

 

I was in Haughians before that game in 03 and there were scouse Liverpool fans in enjoying the songs

 

There were Liverpool fans in Baird’s too, I remember talking to the pin badge fella in there.

 

I would be pretty sure that was short for woolly backs - meaning principally those from Birkenhead  

What I don't understand is, how can people say your Irish so you shouldn't support Chelsea because of anti Irishness from their fans, yet it's ok to support another English team despite everything that the English have done to Ireland for hundreds of years! It makes no sense to me to say it's ok to support one English team over another. Either don't support any of them them or let people support whoever they want.