Can't see any team looking to join when it cost you more money to just enter the league than you get in prize money(*). Also gotta look who runs those teams like Kerry in the underage, KDL run the Kerry LOI franchise and while it's not worth their while entering a senior team it is worth their while entering the underage teams as it means they keep hold of their players longer and if they move on they'll get a bigger fee and goes straight to the KDL rather than a local club.

* That's going by 2016 season figures, money might have gone up but probably only pennies compared to the cost of running a club.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

Other than that, great point well made!

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.

Last thing the Loi needs is more clubs, clubs we already have can barely look after themselves. Why introduce more clubs which are gonna be amateur and stock battling it out with Wexford and Athlone at the bottom of the first division. What the league needs is to bring stability to the clubs we already have so we aint talking about which club will get the dreaded * this season. 

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The only problem with the A Championship was that the highest placed non-league team went into the play-off, rather than having to actually win the league to qualify for the play-off. If the A Championship had of been continued, these clubs could have developed and grown their support enough to be ready to compete in the First Division 

I know Kildare County failed, but do you know what caused their demise? 

What does it cost to join the league? Obviously in addition to the operational expenses. 

Apologies, I wasn't directly targeting Kildare County, I was just using them as an example. Maybe "complete failure" was too harsh. 

To be honest with you, I dont know why they failed. Given that they were formed by members of Newbridge Town, I'm assuming it was internal politics was the biggest factor which led Kildare County's demise? 

That could make sense. No worries - wasn’t a fan at the time and was curious where they went. 

cildaratown wrote: What does it cost to join the league? Obviously in addition to the operational expenses.

In that same season the top 2 teams in the first Divison received €30,000 for winning it and €17,500 for coming second.

Who'd blame them when the only teams that possibly even make a profit are Dundalk and Cork, which is down to European money and players being sold. They like Cabinteely saw an opening with the youth leagues coming in, that's the only reason Cabinteely entered a senior team was to get into the youth leagues which they knew schoolboy clubs wouldn't be allowed enter. 

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 

Cork City account for almost 1 in every 5 LOI fans across both divisions. I don't want to see a third team in Cork but it's certainly not madness given some of the other locations being mentioned. 

Hopefully any potential start-ups agree with you though. 

 

Cork has the population to sustain 2 clubs (400,000 in the Cork Metro Area) if their was a will.

Cork could sustain 2 clubs on 3,000 per home game but that is dependant on both of them being at the top end of the table. As it is the majority of CC fans are from the South side of the city (got this from a CC fan on here).

 

Dundalk averages around 2,500 per game which is around 7/8% of the towns population, admittedly they have fans scattered around the north Louth/south Amagh/Down region.

 

Belfast has 4 clubs in a city where a large % of the population would have in inherent dislike of IL football.

 

It's not going to happen anytime soon tho......

Cork cant even keep 1 club alive without going bust every so often never mind 2 teams!

I know yeah, sure City have only been existence for the last 34 years...

More clubs than Tiger Woods down there ffs

Are you actually going to contribute to the discussion or are you just going to sit at your desktop roaring laughing at your oh-so original jokes?

 

I do believe that they are Kerry's Number 1

They're looking into setting up a new company to run the league, could be a combination of the club's and FAI coming togethe under a new banner to run it but hopefully that leads to people coming in and getting proper tv money for clubs and increasing prize money but any increase in money given to the club's needs to closely watched in that its not all blown in players but used instead to upgrade facilites first and foremost.

Unfortunately I think the first Divison will always be looked at as the redheaded step child that nobody wants, think they should look at regionalising it like in England once you drop out of the football league. The National League which is the top level of non league in England and below that you have National League North and South, think that's the best way to go especially with the cost of travel.

One of the reasons I'm against a proper pyramid structure is because it greatly reduces the size of the teams that can get promoted. 

Suppose we go for a pyramid system and Killarney Celtic and Westport United get promoted.

Killarney won't get support from the wider Kerry area. Someone from Tralee won't support Killarney Celtic. Similarly, someone in Castlebar or Ballina won't get behind a Westport team. Let's say Westport get 1% of population of Westport at their games. That's 60 people. Suppose Mayo FC can get 1% of the county to go that's 1,300. 

Similar let's look at Killarney. Killarney has a population of 14,000, Kerry has a population of 140,000. So I think going for the wider team name opens up potential for much more support. I think Bray should explore the option of Renaming themselves Wicklow Wanderers.

Are Crumlin, Tralee Dynamos or Tullamore Town going to add any more to the first division than Athlone, Cobh or Cabo? Or should we look at building county-wide entities that at least have the potential to be reasonably well supported? I think the latter.

If Bohs we called Phibsboro or Pat's called Inchicore they'd both be in the LSL. At least here we can try get a few thousand through the gates

There is a lot of talent in the south-east, both counties contested the Oscar Traynor Final only last month too.

The fact Carlow/Kilkenny have an under 15 side in the LOI has the potential to lead to bigger things as "a club" if there is proper long term planning put in place to eventually try and put a side together to enter the first division.

Buckley Park is in a terrible location, one the reasons they had no support as it must be good 60min if not more walk outside the town. Carlow themselves could possibly get a team together using the local IT who have a good college team.

Only seeing these posts now, but it was financial reasons they went bust. The club started off relatively well in 2002 and for their first 3 seasons or so they were competitive at the top half of the first division season and getting decent crowds of 500/600. In 2004 3 teams were getting promoted automatically and apparantly we budgeted for promotion that season only to miss out in the last game of the season and this left the club in financial trouble.

The team nose dived after this and crowds plummeted, managed to stick around until 2009 but for the last year or two it was really grim with some tiny crowds at Station Road and some regular hammerings. In the end it went very sour with the manager and board throwing in thw towel before the last game of the season and the supporters had to organise the team and they had to wear a newbridge town underage kit.

I was only young enough at the time but it was a real eye opener as to how difficult it is to run a club in the LoI especially the first division. For a county of 250,000 people we really struggled to get people in the gate, a lot of good work went on behind the scenes but the finances invloved in running a LoI club are huge with very little reward. Unless the FAI make some serious changes I can't see how it would be appealing for now clubs to join, even some of the Premier Clubs are struggling now.

Would love to see LoI football return to Kildare one day but the only way I could see it happening is if Newbridge Town themselves ever decide to take a stab at it.

Thanks for the response. Shame about the team, here’s to hoping Newbridge Town can kick on. 

My mate is from Newbridge and used to go around then and apparently there was a bit of a singing section behind one of the goals and said it was a bit of craic.

Were Kildare County just formed one day and decided to be entered in to the LOI, similar to Sporting Fingal?

I really think any new team should be made enter a 13s, then a 15s, then a 17s, then a 19s and then a senior team. At least that way you build up support in the area and it has the best locals playing for it even. 

Yes there was a bit of a group that came along to matches and attempted to get a bit of an atmosphere going, chances are I know your friend! As far as I know Newbridge Town were approached to enter the league but they decided it would be best to set up a new club to represent the entire county rather than just Newbridge. Also I suspect Newbridge did not want to take the financial risk as they were a relatively successful LSL team at the time.

Yes I think the underage teams will be good for that reason as well as bringing players through, however the cost of running those teams is even more likely to put a new team off entering the LoI.

But whose gonna support Munster fc and where exactly would you base them?

I think this is a great idea and the A Championship should never have been disbanded. A lot of clubs will be interested this time around I think because of access to the national underage leagues. 

If this does happen, it's a positive step, and hopefully the first step towards a pyramid system, and the FAI should be applauded for that.

In the A Championship B teams were mandatory for Premier teams and opt-in for First Div. This lead to teams fielding B teams that didn't want to and voting the division out in the end, losing a few potential expansion teams in the process. If the B teams were entirely opt-in then everybody should be happy. 

Instead of being a carbon copy of the premier and first Divison by introducing a new 10 team third tier league it needs to be regionalised. Needs to be four regionalised leagues to keep the cost of travel down and need to make it financially viable for clubs ie. Can't be charging clubs affiliation fees or upping the cost of match officials otherwise clubs won't look to join and probably turn into an all Dublin league with Cork and Dundalk also in it.

So hopefully it's the first steps of having the regionalised senior leagues as the third tier and develop a proper pyrimad structure in Irish football.

Agree with that, four provincial winners could go into play offs to go up.

There's no way they'll get decent teams together if lads have to travel the country every two weeks for just expenses. Especially as you'd imagine it will be mainly regional teams filling the spots.

Think it will be more the winners of the play off will play off against the bottom first Divison club. Don't think they'll have direct promotion from the league incase you end up with someone like a B team from one of the premier teams or the likes of Kerry and Monaghan/Cavan win the league. Might even be someone like UCC if they win or UCD LSL team they might be able to afford the affiliation fees and higher match fees along with the added travel. 

Hopefully every team that joins the league has ambition for promotion but you'll have some B teams in the league and what if Corks B team wins the league and enters the First Divison but pulls out mid season or at the end of the season because of the costs. If it was me the third tier would be made up of four regional leagues with the four winners playing off for the chance to play for a spot in the first Divison. Can barely keep some of the 20 clubs we have now in business so adding another league of ten teams in a carbon copy league with direct promotion will probably fail.

You're still putting a pyramid system in place just not with direct promotion from the new third tier into the second tier like they do in Scotland with the winners of the highland league and lowland playing off and the winner plays the team that finishes bottom of league 2 in Scotland.

You say that now but if they don't win the league they don't get champions league football and their money for Europe drops quite a bit and if they don't sell on players like they did last season that's less money. There off field costs went up this season and to compete with Dundalk they'll need all funds focused on the senior team. 

What you need is to get the regional senior leagues into the LOI system as a third tier, in time and if the money within LOI improves you can add a new tier and stick it inbetween regional leagues and first Divison.

So you start off with:

Premier Divison  (tier 1)

#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers

First Divison  (tier 2)

#just a play-off between these tiers

Regional leagues (tier 3) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

New company is being set up in 2020 to run the league and after its first 3 years of being set up and they increase the money available for league of ireland clubs they can think about adding a fourth tier and set up like this.

The new second Divison (tier 3) can be made of teams who've played in the previous tier 3 (regional leagues) for the first 3 and want to progress up the leagues. Need to walk before you can run and if you tack another ten team league on and it goes bust you're back to square one which will happen if you don't have more money and clubs pull out to go back to their regional senior league.

I think you are over-estimating the level of interest that would be received from the Intermediate Leagues, if you populate Tier 3 with these teams you also have the same problem where all the teams are already in overpopulated LOI cachement areas. It also doesn't do much to serve the problem of players falling away after 19s or the desire of the top teams to have a B side. 

I think the best way to manage this to mandate that every side currently in the underage league has to put in a senior side. On top of this any Junior/Inter side which applies to join will gain access to the national underage leagues (a semi-decent geographical spread should be the target here not Tier 3 full of top DDSl clubs). Finally the opt-in B teams for clubs who wish to join. 

If you got 16 viable teams out of that bunch that would be an incredible start. Split then north/south and have a short season to begin with. Like with the A Championship no reserve side should be allowed promotion. Have a decent play off system with the winner playing the bottom side in the first Division. The long-term aim should be that 1.5 teams are relegated from the first annually. 

Which is what it's gonna be and imo I doubt there'll be a 3rd tier anyway .

Because they only wanted in to the underage leagues. They also refused a clubs from Limerick, Tipperary and Cork from joining the underage leagues and told go partner up with your nearest senior team.

"The next big meeting is planned for October 8, with more discussions on the size of the Premier Division planned.

An Irish football, but non LOI fan, jumping onto a LOI thread for the first time.... I'm impressed with the number of quality players coming up through the ranks with LOI clubs, and Brexit might actually be doing us a favour here. Keeping our best kids at home, playing with LOI clubs, making the breakthrough and looks to be making the league better. So all good!

My post is to do with underage academies. Here's map of the location of all 20 LOI clubs in Ireland. 7 in or around Dublin area, but decent covereage for the rest of the country. Gaps maybe in Kerry, Mayo, Tipperary, Kildare, Carlow/Kilkenny.

I've read all the posts here about having another Div in the LOI and its mooted again today. I cant understand it. I dont see how promotion/relegation helps develop football in this country. Go to the US model, essentially 'franchise' your clubs and they play in 2 divisions, with promotion/relegation from one Div to the other. Establish clubs in LOI clubs in Killarney, Tipperary, Castlebar and Kildare.

Two Divisions of 24 teams. Get Govt funding for academy structures in all clubs and really take advantage of brexit and get a super talented crop of irish kids coming through in a few years time.

Can anyone here tell me the cost of running a LOI club this year?

If you want to know about LOI finances Chippie is your man. If you have time to search his tweets he has breakdowns for pretty much all clubs. 

This is fairly significant and there is also going to be an U21 Mayo Development squad. They already have a friendly v GUFC lined up. This could potentially lead to the emergence of a Mayo FC. 

Never heard it mentioned before in Ireland but that would be pretty cool. Anything to add to the amount of teams tbh

Isn't there a Romanian team in the LSL? 

Real transilvainia.....they’ve been around for a number of years.

Club Italiano have been based up in Tibradden in the Dublin Mountains for years.

UCFL has a Malawi and a Zimbabwe one. They have another couple like this afaik

The idea of one of these teams at LOI Levels is a bit much really. Local leagues their level. 

Might get some opposition from the Tractor Boys.

Spartak Dynamo was another I remember from back in the day.

Agree with what you said. None of these teams have even climbed up the intermediate ladder yet never mind being anywhere near ready to join the league of Ireland.

Used to play up in Rockbrook Park School didn't they?

there was a side called Super Friends FC at one point.