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Are there any potential expansion teams?

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Topic: Are there any potential expansion teams?
Posted By: cildaratown
Subject: Are there any potential expansion teams?
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 10:31am
Could you see any teams trying to join the LOI? Have there been rumors of this? I know a lot of these clubs are losing money, but the overall value of the clubs could be increasing due to the increase in foreign investment (granted this value is still probably pretty small). 



Replies:
Posted By: adineen98
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 11:19am
Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

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Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 5:14pm

Can't see any team looking to join when it cost you more money to just enter the league than you get in prize money(*). Also gotta look who runs those teams like Kerry in the underage, KDL run the Kerry LOI franchise and while it's not worth their while entering a senior team it is worth their while entering the underage teams as it means they keep hold of their players longer and if they move on they'll get a bigger fee and goes straight to the KDL rather than a local club.

* That's going by 2016 season figures, money might have gone up but probably only pennies compared to the cost of running a club.


Posted By: David McWilliams
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 6:54pm
A Fingal team would be brilliant, surprised nobody hasn't thought of it before.

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Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: David McWilliams
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 6:59pm
A Fingal team given a chance to grow in atually Fingal (Like Swords) would be a lot better than a Fingal team playing in Dublin city.

Other than that, great point well made!


Posted By: adineen98
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.


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Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 1:25am

Last thing the Loi needs is more clubs, clubs we already have can barely look after themselves. Why introduce more clubs which are gonna be amateur and stock battling it out with Wexford and Athlone at the bottom of the first division. What the league needs is to bring stability to the clubs we already have so we aint talking about which club will get the dreaded * this season. 


Posted By: Tribesman91
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 3:07am


What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.
[/QUOTE]

The only problem with the A Championship was that the highest placed non-league team went into the play-off, rather than having to actually win the league to qualify for the play-off. If the A Championship had of been continued, these clubs could have developed and grown their support enough to be ready to compete in the First Division 


Posted By: cildaratown
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.

I know Kildare County failed, but do you know what caused their demise? 


Posted By: cildaratown
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:


Can't see any team looking to join when it cost you more money to just enter the league than you get in prize money(*). Also gotta look who runs those teams like Kerry in the underage, KDL run the Kerry LOI franchise and while it's not worth their while entering a senior team it is worth their while entering the underage teams as it means they keep hold of their players longer and if they move on they'll get a bigger fee and goes straight to the KDL rather than a local club.

* That's going by 2016 season figures, money might have gone up but probably only pennies compared to the cost of running a club.

What does it cost to join the league? Obviously in addition to the operational expenses. 


Posted By: adineen98
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2018 at 11:31am
Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.

I know Kildare County failed, but do you know what caused their demise? 

Apologies, I wasn't directly targeting Kildare County, I was just using them as an example. Maybe "complete failure" was too harsh. 

To be honest with you, I dont know why they failed. Given that they were formed by members of Newbridge Town, I'm assuming it was internal politics was the biggest factor which led Kildare County's demise? 


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Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam


Posted By: cildaratown
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2018 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.

I know Kildare County failed, but do you know what caused their demise? 

Apologies, I wasn't directly targeting Kildare County, I was just using them as an example. Maybe "complete failure" was too harsh. 

To be honest with you, I dont know why they failed. Given that they were formed by members of Newbridge Town, I'm assuming it was internal politics was the biggest factor which led Kildare County's demise? 

That could make sense. No worries - wasn’t a fan at the time and was curious where they went. 


Posted By: PanteirA
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2018 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.
The KDL wont be fielding a senior team in the LOI anytime soon as a licence fee would be the 1st problem. Its main priority is providing a system in Kerry in which footballers can play and develop. There is nothing to attract them to apply for a senior licence. 
You are right about Tralee Dynamos putting a halt to their LOI ambitions. They have had a couple of terrible years since and are a shambles and got relegated from our top tier a few weeks ago.  

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We're the green and white of Killarney, f**k Athletic and the British army


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 7:59am
Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

What does it cost to join the league? Obviously in addition to the operational expenses. 

The bottom 2 teams in the premier in 2016 received €17,000 and remember someone mentioning that those who finished in those posiions got back the money they paid in (€17,000), that's after the FAI take any money owed for fines so might not get all the prize money.

In that same season the top 2 teams in the first Divison received €30,000 for winning it and €17,500 for coming second.


Originally posted by PanteirA PanteirA wrote:

The KDL wont be fielding a senior team in the LOI anytime soon as a licence fee would be the 1st problem. Its main priority is providing a system in Kerry in which footballers can play and develop. There is nothing to attract them to apply for a senior licence. 
You are right about Tralee Dynamos putting a halt to their LOI ambitions. They have had a couple of terrible years since and are a shambles and got relegated from our top tier a few weeks ago.  

Who'd blame them when the only teams that possibly even make a profit are Dundalk and Cork, which is down to European money and players being sold. They like Cabinteely saw an opening with the youth leagues coming in, that's the only reason Cabinteely entered a senior team was to get into the youth leagues which they knew schoolboy clubs wouldn't be allowed enter. 


Posted By: Cabra Hoop
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 8:31am
The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

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" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "


Posted By: Borussia
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 9:08am
What about Killarney Celtic ?? I hear they are a bit of a big deal !!


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 9:09am
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 


Posted By: gufct
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 11:00am
Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .

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One City,One County,One Club GUFC will be back.


Posted By: AnCearrbhach
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 11:55am
Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .

Cork City account for almost 1 in every 5 LOI fans across both divisions. I don't want to see a third team in Cork but it's certainly not madness given some of the other locations being mentioned. 

Hopefully any potential start-ups agree with you though. 


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Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.


Posted By: Cabra Hoop
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .
 
Cork has the population to sustain 2 clubs (400,000 in the Cork Metro Area) if their was a will.
Cork could sustain 2 clubs on 3,000 per home game but that is dependant on both of them being at the top end of the table. As it is the majority of CC fans are from the South side of the city (got this from a CC fan on here).
 
Dundalk averages around 2,500 per game which is around 7/8% of the towns population, admittedly they have fans scattered around the north Louth/south Amagh/Down region.
 
Belfast has 4 clubs in a city where a large % of the population would have in inherent dislike of IL football.
 
It's not going to happen anytime soon tho......


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" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "


Posted By: Twoinarow
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .

Cork City account for almost 1 in every 5 LOI fans across both divisions. I don't want to see a third team in Cork but it's certainly not madness given some of the other locations being mentioned. 

Hopefully any potential start-ups agree with you though. 

Cork cant even keep 1 club alive without going bust every so often never mind 2 teams!


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2 in a row and we won it in Tallaght


Posted By: adineen98
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by Twoinarow Twoinarow wrote:

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .

Cork City account for almost 1 in every 5 LOI fans across both divisions. I don't want to see a third team in Cork but it's certainly not madness given some of the other locations being mentioned. 

Hopefully any potential start-ups agree with you though. 

Cork cant even keep 1 club alive without going bust every so often never mind 2 teams!

I know yeah, sure City have only been existence for the last 34 years...


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Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam


Posted By: Twoinarow
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by Twoinarow Twoinarow wrote:

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .

Cork City account for almost 1 in every 5 LOI fans across both divisions. I don't want to see a third team in Cork but it's certainly not madness given some of the other locations being mentioned. 

Hopefully any potential start-ups agree with you though. 

Cork cant even keep 1 club alive without going bust every so often never mind 2 teams!

I know yeah, sure City have only been existence for the last 34 years...

LOLLOLMore clubs than Tiger Woods down there ffs


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2 in a row and we won it in Tallaght


Posted By: adineen98
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Twoinarow Twoinarow wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by Twoinarow Twoinarow wrote:

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .

Cork City account for almost 1 in every 5 LOI fans across both divisions. I don't want to see a third team in Cork but it's certainly not madness given some of the other locations being mentioned. 

Hopefully any potential start-ups agree with you though. 

Cork cant even keep 1 club alive without going bust every so often never mind 2 teams!

I know yeah, sure City have only been existence for the last 34 years...

LOLLOLMore clubs than Tiger Woods down there ffs

Are you actually going to contribute to the discussion or are you just going to sit at your desktop roaring laughing at your oh-so original jokes?


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Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam


Posted By: kevincronin2000
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 2:23pm
I'd imagine if cork city's and Cobh ramblers home league games clash Cobh would notice a significant drop in attendances for Cobh. Recently our home game v Derry clashed with Cobhs game v Galway and as far as I can remember Cobh changed their ko time to allow fans attend both.

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time is the stuff that life is made of, don't waste it.


Posted By: PanteirA
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 
Spot on. Sometime in the future if prize money for a club entering the league outweighed the costs of participating in the LOI, then clubs who have ambition will apply to enter. Club facilities , support base , location , income and all that should be strictly managed by the FAI and it should be made clear whats expected of clubs who wish to enter.
 
Then hopefully a league which supports the 1st division will be proposed in which relegation and promotion to 1st division will apply. By this stage every Junior and Intermediate club will want to get on the ladder of progression to the LOI. All this wont happen under the current FAI and if the LOI was a more attractive place for clubs to join it would be over a long period of time before thing pan out like id imagine

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We're the green and white of Killarney, f**k Athletic and the British army


Posted By: thebronze14
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

What about Killarney Celtic ?? I hear they are a bit of a big deal !!
I do believe that they are Kerry's Number 1


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 11:15am
Originally posted by PanteirA PanteirA wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 
Spot on. Sometime in the future if prize money for a club entering the league outweighed the costs of participating in the LOI, then clubs who have ambition will apply to enter. Club facilities , support base , location , income and all that should be strictly managed by the FAI and it should be made clear whats expected of clubs who wish to enter.
 
Then hopefully a league which supports the 1st division will be proposed in which relegation and promotion to 1st division will apply. By this stage every Junior and Intermediate club will want to get on the ladder of progression to the LOI. All this wont happen under the current FAI and if the LOI was a more attractive place for clubs to join it would be over a long period of time before thing pan out like id imagine

They're looking into setting up a new company to run the league, could be a combination of the club's and FAI coming togethe under a new banner to run it but hopefully that leads to people coming in and getting proper tv money for clubs and increasing prize money but any increase in money given to the club's needs to closely watched in that its not all blown in players but used instead to upgrade facilites first and foremost.

Unfortunately I think the first Divison will always be looked at as the redheaded step child that nobody wants, think they should look at regionalising it like in England once you drop out of the football league. The National League which is the top level of non league in England and below that you have National League North and South, think that's the best way to go especially with the cost of travel.


Posted By: David McWilliams
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by PanteirA PanteirA wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 
Spot on. Sometime in the future if prize money for a club entering the league outweighed the costs of participating in the LOI, then clubs who have ambition will apply to enter. Club facilities , support base , location , income and all that should be strictly managed by the FAI and it should be made clear whats expected of clubs who wish to enter.
 
Then hopefully a league which supports the 1st division will be proposed in which relegation and promotion to 1st division will apply. By this stage every Junior and Intermediate club will want to get on the ladder of progression to the LOI. All this wont happen under the current FAI and if the LOI was a more attractive place for clubs to join it would be over a long period of time before thing pan out like id imagine

One of the reasons I'm against a proper pyramid structure is because it greatly reduces the size of the teams that can get promoted. 

Suppose we go for a pyramid system and Killarney Celtic and Westport United get promoted.
Killarney won't get support from the wider Kerry area. Someone from Tralee won't support Killarney Celtic. Similarly, someone in Castlebar or Ballina won't get behind a Westport team. Let's say Westport get 1% of population of Westport at their games. That's 60 people. Suppose Mayo FC can get 1% of the county to go that's 1,300. 

Similar let's look at Killarney. Killarney has a population of 14,000, Kerry has a population of 140,000. So I think going for the wider team name opens up potential for much more support. I think Bray should explore the option of Renaming themselves Wicklow Wanderers.

Are Crumlin, Tralee Dynamos or Tullamore Town going to add any more to the first division than Athlone, Cobh or Cabo? Or should we look at building county-wide entities that at least have the potential to be reasonably well supported? I think the latter.

If Bohs we called Phibsboro or Pat's called Inchicore they'd both be in the LSL. At least here we can try get a few thousand through the gates


Posted By: PanteirA
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by PanteirA PanteirA wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 
Spot on. Sometime in the future if prize money for a club entering the league outweighed the costs of participating in the LOI, then clubs who have ambition will apply to enter. Club facilities , support base , location , income and all that should be strictly managed by the FAI and it should be made clear whats expected of clubs who wish to enter.
 
Then hopefully a league which supports the 1st division will be proposed in which relegation and promotion to 1st division will apply. By this stage every Junior and Intermediate club will want to get on the ladder of progression to the LOI. All this wont happen under the current FAI and if the LOI was a more attractive place for clubs to join it would be over a long period of time before thing pan out like id imagine

They're looking into setting up a new company to run the league, could be a combination of the club's and FAI coming togethe under a new banner to run it but hopefully that leads to people coming in and getting proper tv money for clubs and increasing prize money but any increase in money given to the club's needs to closely watched in that its not all blown in players but used instead to upgrade facilites first and foremost.

Unfortunately I think the first Divison will always be looked at as the redheaded step child that nobody wants, think they should look at regionalising it like in England once you drop out of the football league. The National League which is the top level of non league in England and below that you have National League North and South, think that's the best way to go especially with the cost of travel.
The cost of travel over the course of a season is a big issue so something more regionalized is preferred but id think it would have to lead into a division , be it 1st or 2nd that teams want to be in for financial rewards. It does all come down to money as an incentive if you want to expand LOI football , which is quiet damming if you look at the state of some of the clubs there. If you are a stable and successful junior / intermediate club there is little appetite to be in the graveyard of the current system

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We're the green and white of Killarney, f**k Athletic and the British army


Posted By: Denis Irwin
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by PanteirA PanteirA wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 
Spot on. Sometime in the future if prize money for a club entering the league outweighed the costs of participating in the LOI, then clubs who have ambition will apply to enter. Club facilities , support base , location , income and all that should be strictly managed by the FAI and it should be made clear whats expected of clubs who wish to enter.
 
Then hopefully a league which supports the 1st division will be proposed in which relegation and promotion to 1st division will apply. By this stage every Junior and Intermediate club will want to get on the ladder of progression to the LOI. All this wont happen under the current FAI and if the LOI was a more attractive place for clubs to join it would be over a long period of time before thing pan out like id imagine

They're looking into setting up a new company to run the league, could be a combination of the club's and FAI coming togethe under a new banner to run it but hopefully that leads to people coming in and getting proper tv money for clubs and increasing prize money but any increase in money given to the club's needs to closely watched in that its not all blown in players but used instead to upgrade facilites first and foremost.

Unfortunately I think the first Divison will always be looked at as the redheaded step child that nobody wants, think they should look at regionalising it like in England once you drop out of the football league. The National League which is the top level of non league in England and below that you have National League North and South, think that's the best way to go especially with the cost of travel.


LOL


-------------
Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn


Posted By: PanteirA
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by PanteirA PanteirA wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 
Spot on. Sometime in the future if prize money for a club entering the league outweighed the costs of participating in the LOI, then clubs who have ambition will apply to enter. Club facilities , support base , location , income and all that should be strictly managed by the FAI and it should be made clear whats expected of clubs who wish to enter.
 
Then hopefully a league which supports the 1st division will be proposed in which relegation and promotion to 1st division will apply. By this stage every Junior and Intermediate club will want to get on the ladder of progression to the LOI. All this wont happen under the current FAI and if the LOI was a more attractive place for clubs to join it would be over a long period of time before thing pan out like id imagine

One of the reasons I'm against a proper pyramid structure is because it greatly reduces the size of the teams that can get promoted. 

Suppose we go for a pyramid system and Killarney Celtic and Westport United get promoted.
Killarney won't get support from the wider Kerry area. Someone from Tralee won't support Killarney Celtic. Similarly, someone in Castlebar or Ballina won't get behind a Westport team. Let's say Westport get 1% of population of Westport at their games. That's 60 people. Suppose Mayo FC can get 1% of the county to go that's 1,300. 

Similar let's look at Killarney. Killarney has a population of 14,000, Kerry has a population of 140,000. So I think going for the wider team name opens up potential for much more support. I think Bray should explore the option of Renaming themselves Wicklow Wanderers.

Are Crumlin, Tralee Dynamos or Tullamore Town going to add any more to the first division than Athlone, Cobh or Cabo? Or should we look at building county-wide entities that at least have the potential to be reasonably well supported? I think the latter.

If Bohs we called Phibsboro or Pat's called Inchicore they'd both be in the LSL. At least here we can try get a few thousand through the gates
I know what you mean but there has being a few county team failures and id give a Killarney team ( especially if the 2 biggest Killarney teams united for a LOI team) a much better chance for long term sustainability. After all they have 70 odd years of rivalry between them as opposed to a newly formed Kerry senior team. A Killarney team would get support from outside Killarney and pull more supporters than a Tralee based Kerry team .

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We're the green and white of Killarney, f**k Athletic and the British army


Posted By: Green Devil
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 11:08pm
A combined Carlow/Kilkenny team would definitely be a visible option especially when you factor in there is a ready made stadium in Buckey Park.

There is a lot of talent in the south-east, both counties contested the Oscar Traynor Final only last month too.

The fact Carlow/Kilkenny have an under 15 side in the LOI has the potential to lead to bigger things as "a club" if there is proper long term planning put in place to eventually try and put a side together to enter the first division.


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"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"

Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 3:29am
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

A combined Carlow/Kilkenny team would definitely be a visible option especially when you factor in there is a ready made stadium in Buckey Park.

There is a lot of talent in the south-east, both counties contested the Oscar Traynor Final only last month too.

The fact Carlow/Kilkenny have an under 15 side in the LOI has the potential to lead to bigger things as "a club" if there is proper long term planning put in place to eventually try and put a side together to enter the first division.

Buckley Park is in a terrible location, one the reasons they had no support as it must be good 60min if not more walk outside the town. Carlow themselves could possibly get a team together using the local IT who have a good college team.


Posted By: CillDara
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.

I know Kildare County failed, but do you know what caused their demise? 

Apologies, I wasn't directly targeting Kildare County, I was just using them as an example. Maybe "complete failure" was too harsh. 

To be honest with you, I dont know why they failed. Given that they were formed by members of Newbridge Town, I'm assuming it was internal politics was the biggest factor which led Kildare County's demise? 

That could make sense. No worries - wasn’t a fan at the time and was curious where they went. 

Only seeing these posts now, but it was financial reasons they went bust. The club started off relatively well in 2002 and for their first 3 seasons or so they were competitive at the top half of the first division season and getting decent crowds of 500/600. In 2004 3 teams were getting promoted automatically and apparantly we budgeted for promotion that season only to miss out in the last game of the season and this left the club in financial trouble.

The team nose dived after this and crowds plummeted, managed to stick around until 2009 but for the last year or two it was really grim with some tiny crowds at Station Road and some regular hammerings. In the end it went very sour with the manager and board throwing in thw towel before the last game of the season and the supporters had to organise the team and they had to wear a newbridge town underage kit.

I was only young enough at the time but it was a real eye opener as to how difficult it is to run a club in the LoI especially the first division. For a county of 250,000 people we really struggled to get people in the gate, a lot of good work went on behind the scenes but the finances invloved in running a LoI club are huge with very little reward. Unless the FAI make some serious changes I can't see how it would be appealing for now clubs to join, even some of the Premier Clubs are struggling now.

Would love to see LoI football return to Kildare one day but the only way I could see it happening is if Newbridge Town themselves ever decide to take a stab at it.


Posted By: cildaratown
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by CillDara CillDara wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.

I know Kildare County failed, but do you know what caused their demise? 

Apologies, I wasn't directly targeting Kildare County, I was just using them as an example. Maybe "complete failure" was too harsh. 

To be honest with you, I dont know why they failed. Given that they were formed by members of Newbridge Town, I'm assuming it was internal politics was the biggest factor which led Kildare County's demise? 

That could make sense. No worries - wasn’t a fan at the time and was curious where they went. 

Only seeing these posts now, but it was financial reasons they went bust. The club started off relatively well in 2002 and for their first 3 seasons or so they were competitive at the top half of the first division season and getting decent crowds of 500/600. In 2004 3 teams were getting promoted automatically and apparantly we budgeted for promotion that season only to miss out in the last game of the season and this left the club in financial trouble.

The team nose dived after this and crowds plummeted, managed to stick around until 2009 but for the last year or two it was really grim with some tiny crowds at Station Road and some regular hammerings. In the end it went very sour with the manager and board throwing in thw towel before the last game of the season and the supporters had to organise the team and they had to wear a newbridge town underage kit.

I was only young enough at the time but it was a real eye opener as to how difficult it is to run a club in the LoI especially the first division. For a county of 250,000 people we really struggled to get people in the gate, a lot of good work went on behind the scenes but the finances invloved in running a LoI club are huge with very little reward. Unless the FAI make some serious changes I can't see how it would be appealing for now clubs to join, even some of the Premier Clubs are struggling now.

Would love to see LoI football return to Kildare one day but the only way I could see it happening is if Newbridge Town themselves ever decide to take a stab at it.

Thanks for the response. Shame about the team, here’s to hoping Newbridge Town can kick on. 


Posted By: David McWilliams
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by CillDara CillDara wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.

I know Kildare County failed, but do you know what caused their demise? 

Apologies, I wasn't directly targeting Kildare County, I was just using them as an example. Maybe "complete failure" was too harsh. 

To be honest with you, I dont know why they failed. Given that they were formed by members of Newbridge Town, I'm assuming it was internal politics was the biggest factor which led Kildare County's demise? 

That could make sense. No worries - wasn’t a fan at the time and was curious where they went. 

Only seeing these posts now, but it was financial reasons they went bust. The club started off relatively well in 2002 and for their first 3 seasons or so they were competitive at the top half of the first division season and getting decent crowds of 500/600. In 2004 3 teams were getting promoted automatically and apparantly we budgeted for promotion that season only to miss out in the last game of the season and this left the club in financial trouble.

The team nose dived after this and crowds plummeted, managed to stick around until 2009 but for the last year or two it was really grim with some tiny crowds at Station Road and some regular hammerings. In the end it went very sour with the manager and board throwing in thw towel before the last game of the season and the supporters had to organise the team and they had to wear a newbridge town underage kit.

I was only young enough at the time but it was a real eye opener as to how difficult it is to run a club in the LoI especially the first division. For a county of 250,000 people we really struggled to get people in the gate, a lot of good work went on behind the scenes but the finances invloved in running a LoI club are huge with very little reward. Unless the FAI make some serious changes I can't see how it would be appealing for now clubs to join, even some of the Premier Clubs are struggling now.

Would love to see LoI football return to Kildare one day but the only way I could see it happening is if Newbridge Town themselves ever decide to take a stab at it.

My mate is from Newbridge and used to go around then and apparently there was a bit of a singing section behind one of the goals and said it was a bit of craic.

Were Kildare County just formed one day and decided to be entered in to the LOI, similar to Sporting Fingal?

I really think any new team should be made enter a 13s, then a 15s, then a 17s, then a 19s and then a senior team. At least that way you build up support in the area and it has the best locals playing for it even. 


Posted By: Trap junior
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 5:22pm
Barstool Utd

-------------
For all your Bitcoin enquiries contact David Meyler

Crap senior is my full time stalker.


Posted By: CillDara
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by CillDara CillDara wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.

I know Kildare County failed, but do you know what caused their demise? 

Apologies, I wasn't directly targeting Kildare County, I was just using them as an example. Maybe "complete failure" was too harsh. 

To be honest with you, I dont know why they failed. Given that they were formed by members of Newbridge Town, I'm assuming it was internal politics was the biggest factor which led Kildare County's demise? 

That could make sense. No worries - wasn’t a fan at the time and was curious where they went. 

Only seeing these posts now, but it was financial reasons they went bust. The club started off relatively well in 2002 and for their first 3 seasons or so they were competitive at the top half of the first division season and getting decent crowds of 500/600. In 2004 3 teams were getting promoted automatically and apparantly we budgeted for promotion that season only to miss out in the last game of the season and this left the club in financial trouble.

The team nose dived after this and crowds plummeted, managed to stick around until 2009 but for the last year or two it was really grim with some tiny crowds at Station Road and some regular hammerings. In the end it went very sour with the manager and board throwing in thw towel before the last game of the season and the supporters had to organise the team and they had to wear a newbridge town underage kit.

I was only young enough at the time but it was a real eye opener as to how difficult it is to run a club in the LoI especially the first division. For a county of 250,000 people we really struggled to get people in the gate, a lot of good work went on behind the scenes but the finances invloved in running a LoI club are huge with very little reward. Unless the FAI make some serious changes I can't see how it would be appealing for now clubs to join, even some of the Premier Clubs are struggling now.

Would love to see LoI football return to Kildare one day but the only way I could see it happening is if Newbridge Town themselves ever decide to take a stab at it.

My mate is from Newbridge and used to go around then and apparently there was a bit of a singing section behind one of the goals and said it was a bit of craic.

Were Kildare County just formed one day and decided to be entered in to the LOI, similar to Sporting Fingal?

I really think any new team should be made enter a 13s, then a 15s, then a 17s, then a 19s and then a senior team. At least that way you build up support in the area and it has the best locals playing for it even. 


Yes there was a bit of a group that came along to matches and attempted to get a bit of an atmosphere going, chances are I know your friend! As far as I know Newbridge Town were approached to enter the league but they decided it would be best to set up a new club to represent the entire county rather than just Newbridge. Also I suspect Newbridge did not want to take the financial risk as they were a relatively successful LSL team at the time.

Yes I think the underage teams will be good for that reason as well as bringing players through, however the cost of running those teams is even more likely to put a new team off entering the LoI.


Posted By: corkery
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 9:04pm
The provlem any new club is the stadium. Take Wexford for example, it's never going to work because they play in the middle of nowhere. You need somewhere that people can walk to.

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'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick


Posted By: garretjoseph
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 8:25am
would the FAI block a team from calling themselves say Munster FC? Or Ulster FC... Club sets up shop somewhere in Munster/Ulster and potentially could gain a large following.,,, 


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 9:07am
I'd say if you had the means and wanted to set up a team called the Renford Rejects I doubt the FAI would give two sh*ts and would give you a licence.

But whose gonna support Munster fc and where exactly would you base them?


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 10:03am
LOL Munster FC! That's f**king brilliant!

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Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: CillDara
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 10:45am
In the Irish Sun today that the FAI are considering introducing a new third tier for the 2020 season which could be made up of intermediate clubs or B teams in an attempt to bridge the gap between senior and u.19s LoI. Didn't exactly work out for them the last time with the A Championship. Would love to see it if it was done properly but can't see clubs queuing up to join unless there is a major incentive.. Just look at Wexford and Athlone in the first division. I wonder what clubs if any, would be interested in joining?


Posted By: AnCearrbhach
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 10:52am
Originally posted by CillDara CillDara wrote:

In the Irish Sun today that the FAI are considering introducing a new third tier for the 2020 season which could be made up of intermediate clubs or B teams in an attempt to bridge the gap between senior and u.19s LoI. Didn't exactly work out for them the last time with the A Championship. Would love to see it if it was done properly but can't see clubs queuing up to join unless there is a major incentive.. Just look at Wexford and Athlone in the first division. I wonder what clubs if any, would be interested in joining?

I think this is a great idea and the A Championship should never have been disbanded. A lot of clubs will be interested this time around I think because of access to the national underage leagues. 


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Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.


Posted By: adineen98
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 10:58am
I can't say for sure but I think one of the issues with the A Championship was the number of B teams outnumbered the first teams. Having said that the A Championship was a great idea that wasn't given time to flourish. This time around I could only see the likes of City, Dundalk and Shamrock Rovers entering B teams as I can't imagine the Brays and Limericks of the league could afford a B team on top of their underage sides, but a way to get around that would be to loan players to a nearby club in this potential third tier. As for teams that would want to join, it would more than likely be the top intermediate sides and clubs that are known for producing talent who would like to hold onto their players a little while longer. 

If this does happen, it's a positive step, and hopefully the first step towards a pyramid system, and the FAI should be applauded for that.


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Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam


Posted By: AnCearrbhach
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:05am
Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

I can't say for sure but I think one of the issues with the A Championship was the number of B teams outnumbered the first teams. Having said that the A Championship was a great idea that wasn't given time to flourish. This time around I could only see the likes of City, Dundalk and Shamrock Rovers entering B teams as I can't imagine the Brays and Limericks of the league could afford a B team on top of their underage sides, but a way to get around that would be to loan players to a nearby club in this potential third tier. As for teams that would want to join, it would more than likely be the top intermediate sides and clubs that are known for producing talent who would like to hold onto their players a little while longer. 

If this does happen, it's a positive step, and hopefully the first step towards a pyramid system, and the FAI should be applauded for that.

In the A Championship B teams were mandatory for Premier teams and opt-in for First Div. This lead to teams fielding B teams that didn't want to and voting the division out in the end, losing a few potential expansion teams in the process. If the B teams were entirely opt-in then everybody should be happy. 


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Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.


Posted By: CillDara
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:27am
If it works out then yes it would be a great idea but are some of the top intermediate clubs going to risk everything by jumping from the top LSL division to go and join this new league that may or may not work out? The B teams should definitely be optional. I would imagine the likes of Monaghan/Cavan, Mayo, Kerry & Kilkenny/Carlow will be expected to join as they have sides in the underage leagues. 


Posted By: UCDFAN
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:31am
UCD AFC would definitely want a slice of that because we are a Football Club with Football Players. Regarding the A Championship, UCD are the most successful club winning it, losing the last one up at the old The Brandywell.

League of Ireland clubs despise integrated competitions tho', they hate them.
eg 1. LFA Leinster Senior Cup, first final 1892. LoI legend Jason Byrne intrinsically linked to the competition. But low, painful whining when the fixtures come around leading to procrastination of staging the rounds.

Eg 2 The FAI Senior Cup, first final in 1922, allowed to be described as "the oldest football competition in Ireland".
http://www.fai.ie/domestic/competitions/irish-daily-mail-fai-senior-cup" rel="nofollow - http://www.fai.ie/domestic/competitions/irish-daily-mail-fai-senior-cup . Ignoring Universities and Provincial competitions in IRL.
Exclusion of UCD Leinster Senior League side when eligible with on-the- field achievements.


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www.ucdsupporters.ie


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:47am
Instead of being a carbon copy of the premier and first Divison by introducing a new 10 team third tier league it needs to be regionalised. Needs to be four regionalised leagues to keep the cost of travel down and need to make it financially viable for clubs ie. Can't be charging clubs affiliation fees or upping the cost of match officials otherwise clubs won't look to join and probably turn into an all Dublin league with Cork and Dundalk also in it.

So hopefully it's the first steps of having the regionalised senior leagues as the third tier and develop a proper pyrimad structure in Irish football.


Posted By: nvidic
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Instead of being a carbon copy of the premier and first Divison by introducing a new 10 team third tier league it needs to be regionalised. Needs to be four regionalised leagues to keep the cost of travel down and need to make it financially viable for clubs ie. Can't be charging clubs affiliation fees or upping the cost of match officials otherwise clubs won't look to join and probably turn into an all Dublin league with Cork and Dundalk also in it.

So hopefully it's the first steps of having the regionalised senior leagues as the third tier and develop a proper pyrimad structure in Irish football.

Agree with that, four provincial winners could go into play offs to go up.

There's no way they'll get decent teams together if lads have to travel the country every two weeks for just expenses. Especially as you'd imagine it will be mainly regional teams filling the spots.


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Instead of being a carbon copy of the premier and first Divison by introducing a new 10 team third tier league it needs to be regionalised. Needs to be four regionalised leagues to keep the cost of travel down and need to make it financially viable for clubs ie. Can't be charging clubs affiliation fees or upping the cost of match officials otherwise clubs won't look to join and probably turn into an all Dublin league with Cork and Dundalk also in it.

So hopefully it's the first steps of having the regionalised senior leagues as the third tier and develop a proper pyrimad structure in Irish football.

Agree with that, four provincial winners could go into play offs to go up.

There's no way they'll get decent teams together if lads have to travel the country every two weeks for just expenses. Especially as you'd imagine it will be mainly regional teams filling the spots.

Think it will be more the winners of the play off will play off against the bottom first Divison club. Don't think they'll have direct promotion from the league incase you end up with someone like a B team from one of the premier teams or the likes of Kerry and Monaghan/Cavan win the league. Might even be someone like UCC if they win or UCD LSL team they might be able to afford the affiliation fees and higher match fees along with the added travel. 


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 4:59pm
The incredibly high entrance fees should be used to help any promoted team bed in. Also, no team should be allowed entrance to this new division without an interest in accepting promotion.
A pyramid system is vital for Irish football, it must be implemented.

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Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The incredibly high entrance fees should be used to help any promoted team bed in. Also, no team should be allowed entrance to this new division without an interest in accepting promotion.
A pyramid system is vital for Irish football, it must be implemented.

Hopefully every team that joins the league has ambition for promotion but you'll have some B teams in the league and what if Corks B team wins the league and enters the First Divison but pulls out mid season or at the end of the season because of the costs. If it was me the third tier would be made up of four regional leagues with the four winners playing off for the chance to play for a spot in the first Divison. Can barely keep some of the 20 clubs we have now in business so adding another league of ten teams in a carbon copy league with direct promotion will probably fail.

You're still putting a pyramid system in place just not with direct promotion from the new third tier into the second tier like they do in Scotland with the winners of the highland league and lowland playing off and the winner plays the team that finishes bottom of league 2 in Scotland.


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 6:14pm
Then they shouldn't be allowed to join. City can afford two teams though, there would be more people at City's reserve games than any other first division team. Every time I used to go and watch Ramblers I recognised a lot of the crowd from the Cross. Play the games on a Sunday and they would pay their way.
Personally, I wouldn't like 'B' teams in the league proper. I would prefer the playoffs to be for clubs who want to progress though.

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Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Then they shouldn't be allowed to join. City can afford two teams though, there would be more people at City's reserve games than any other first division team. Every time I used to go and watch Ramblers I recognised a lot of the crowd from the Cross. Play the games on a Sunday and they would pay their way.
Personally, I wouldn't like 'B' teams in the league proper. I would prefer the playoffs to be for clubs who want to progress though.

You say that now but if they don't win the league they don't get champions league football and their money for Europe drops quite a bit and if they don't sell on players like they did last season that's less money. There off field costs went up this season and to compete with Dundalk they'll need all funds focused on the senior team. 

What you need is to get the regional senior leagues into the LOI system as a third tier, in time and if the money within LOI improves you can add a new tier and stick it inbetween regional leagues and first Divison.

So you start off with:

Premier Divison  (tier 1)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
First Divison  (tier 2)
#just a play-off between these tiers
Regional leagues (tier 3) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

New company is being set up in 2020 to run the league and after its first 3 years of being set up and they increase the money available for league of ireland clubs they can think about adding a fourth tier and set up like this.



Premier Divison  (tier 1)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
First Divison  (tier 2)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
Second Divison (tier 3)
#just a play-off between these tiers
Regional leagues (tier 4) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

The new second Divison (tier 3) can be made of teams who've played in the previous tier 3 (regional leagues) for the first 3 and want to progress up the leagues. Need to walk before you can run and if you tack another ten team league on and it goes bust you're back to square one which will happen if you don't have more money and clubs pull out to go back to their regional senior league.


Posted By: CillDara
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 10:58am
Regional divisions would make the most sense but I can't see it happening as the likes of the LSL and MSL would never roll over and be replaced that easily. The only thing now is that maybe some of the major schoolboy clubs would be tempted to enter a national league if it gave them access to having teams in the national underage leagues.


Posted By: AnCearrbhach
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 11:21am
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Then they shouldn't be allowed to join. City can afford two teams though, there would be more people at City's reserve games than any other first division team. Every time I used to go and watch Ramblers I recognised a lot of the crowd from the Cross. Play the games on a Sunday and they would pay their way.
Personally, I wouldn't like 'B' teams in the league proper. I would prefer the playoffs to be for clubs who want to progress though.

You say that now but if they don't win the league they don't get champions league football and their money for Europe drops quite a bit and if they don't sell on players like they did last season that's less money. There off field costs went up this season and to compete with Dundalk they'll need all funds focused on the senior team. 

What you need is to get the regional senior leagues into the LOI system as a third tier, in time and if the money within LOI improves you can add a new tier and stick it inbetween regional leagues and first Divison.

So you start off with:

Premier Divison  (tier 1)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
First Divison  (tier 2)
#just a play-off between these tiers
Regional leagues (tier 3) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

New company is being set up in 2020 to run the league and after its first 3 years of being set up and they increase the money available for league of ireland clubs they can think about adding a fourth tier and set up like this.



Premier Divison  (tier 1)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
First Divison  (tier 2)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
Second Divison (tier 3)
#just a play-off between these tiers
Regional leagues (tier 4) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

The new second Divison (tier 3) can be made of teams who've played in the previous tier 3 (regional leagues) for the first 3 and want to progress up the leagues. Need to walk before you can run and if you tack another ten team league on and it goes bust you're back to square one which will happen if you don't have more money and clubs pull out to go back to their regional senior league.

I think you are over-estimating the level of interest that would be received from the Intermediate Leagues, if you populate Tier 3 with these teams you also have the same problem where all the teams are already in overpopulated LOI cachement areas. It also doesn't do much to serve the problem of players falling away after 19s or the desire of the top teams to have a B side. 

I think the best way to manage this to mandate that every side currently in the underage league has to put in a senior side. On top of this any Junior/Inter side which applies to join will gain access to the national underage leagues (a semi-decent geographical spread should be the target here not Tier 3 full of top DDSl clubs). Finally the opt-in B teams for clubs who wish to join. 

If you got 16 viable teams out of that bunch that would be an incredible start. Split then north/south and have a short season to begin with. Like with the A Championship no reserve side should be allowed promotion. Have a decent play off system with the winner playing the bottom side in the first Division. The long-term aim should be that 1.5 teams are relegated from the first annually. 


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Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 11:57am
Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Then they shouldn't be allowed to join. City can afford two teams though, there would be more people at City's reserve games than any other first division team. Every time I used to go and watch Ramblers I recognised a lot of the crowd from the Cross. Play the games on a Sunday and they would pay their way.
Personally, I wouldn't like 'B' teams in the league proper. I would prefer the playoffs to be for clubs who want to progress though.

You say that now but if they don't win the league they don't get champions league football and their money for Europe drops quite a bit and if they don't sell on players like they did last season that's less money. There off field costs went up this season and to compete with Dundalk they'll need all funds focused on the senior team. 

What you need is to get the regional senior leagues into the LOI system as a third tier, in time and if the money within LOI improves you can add a new tier and stick it inbetween regional leagues and first Divison.

So you start off with:

Premier Divison  (tier 1)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
First Divison  (tier 2)
#just a play-off between these tiers
Regional leagues (tier 3) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

New company is being set up in 2020 to run the league and after its first 3 years of being set up and they increase the money available for league of ireland clubs they can think about adding a fourth tier and set up like this.



Premier Divison  (tier 1)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
First Divison  (tier 2)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
Second Divison (tier 3)
#just a play-off between these tiers
Regional leagues (tier 4) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

The new second Divison (tier 3) can be made of teams who've played in the previous tier 3 (regional leagues) for the first 3 and want to progress up the leagues. Need to walk before you can run and if you tack another ten team league on and it goes bust you're back to square one which will happen if you don't have more money and clubs pull out to go back to their regional senior league.

I think you are over-estimating the level of interest that would be received from the Intermediate Leagues, if you populate Tier 3 with these teams you also have the same problem where all the teams are already in overpopulated LOI cachement areas. It also doesn't do much to serve the problem of players falling away after 19s or the desire of the top teams to have a B side. 

I think the best way to manage this to mandate that every side currently in the underage league has to put in a senior side. On top of this any Junior/Inter side which applies to join will gain access to the national underage leagues (a semi-decent geographical spread should be the target here not Tier 3 full of top DDSl clubs). Finally the opt-in B teams for clubs who wish to join. 

If you got 16 viable teams out of that bunch that would be an incredible start. Split then north/south and have a short season to begin with. Like with the A Championship no reserve side should be allowed promotion. Have a decent play off system with the winner playing the bottom side in the first Division. The long-term aim should be that 1.5 teams are relegated from the first annually. 

Which is what it's gonna be and imo I doubt there'll be a 3rd tier anyway .


Posted By: AnCearrbhach
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 11:59am
I don't think so, they already kicked back a few DDSL clubs from trying to join the underage leagues so they seem to at least be aware that we've reached Dublin saturation, arguably surpassed it. 

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Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.


Posted By: J89
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

I don't think so, they already kicked back a few DDSL clubs from trying to join the underage leagues so they seem to at least be aware that we've reached Dublin saturation, arguably surpassed it. 

Because they only wanted in to the underage leagues. They also refused a clubs from Limerick, Tipperary and Cork from joining the underage leagues and told go partner up with your nearest senior team.


Posted By: cildaratown
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2019 at 1:00am
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/new-players-eye-role-in-league-of-ireland-38519140.html%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/new-players-eye-role-in-league-of-ireland-38519140.html

"The next big meeting is planned for October 8, with more discussions on the size of the Premier Division planned.

Representatives of underage teams in Kerry, Cavan/Monaghan, Kildare, Carlow/Kilkenny and Mayo will be invited as there are hopes these areas might be interested in fielding senior teams in the future."



Posted By: savo01
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 4:05pm
While I like this idea in principal is it just not taking money away from the underage teams?

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Jackie Charlton, Eoin Hand
Johnny Giles. Ireland
Mick McCarthy, Stephen Staunton
Cascarino
Tony Galvin, Niall Quinn
Packie doesn't let em in
North of Ireland
South of Ireland
Only one can go



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