I'm doing a Masters at the moment and for an assignment on it, I'm writing a piece on recent behaviour on away trips. I'm thinking it'll cover the Irish relationship with alcohol, if the whole McGregor "We're not here to take part, we're here to take over" attitude has had an impact, the desperate attempts by some people and some media to get the next viral video of whacky behaviour picked up, that sort of thing.

There was plenty of comment on here after the Wales game and the Denmark game in particular about behaviour and even Joe Duffy had picked up on that (admittedly harmless) chanting outside Victoria's Secret so I think it's an interesting topic to look into.  

So what do people think, have things worsened or has their always been an element that's been managed and hidden but is now more visible because of mobile phones, social media etc?

Any opinion, incidents, anecdotes or feedback would be much appreciated.

Cheers.

I've been going to away games since about 2001. I think there has been more acting the ballix since Poland. Social media is defo a major contributing factor and there are a lot more people traveling for the party than the football than there were 10 years ago. 

 

Lads of my age (51) give or take, I don't think we'd in our younger days remotely considered some of the cringey tricolor slogans (defacements?) that we see since Euro 2016, they are horrendous.

 

Definitely internet travel has also made the away trips more possible for event junkies/pissheads.  I believe many of those travelling to away trips (with or without tickets) wouldn't have the same raw passion for the team and the results than the core who travelled in the 70s/80s/90s, they go for a few days on the piss, go to the match pissed and don't take a bad result badly and just go on the piss again.

 

I certainly don't believe the behaviour has taken any turn for the worst, just some of it is terribly cringeworthy, attention-seeking and annoying.   The "look at us, aren't we Irish gas" stuff is fairly tiresome now at this stage.

 

Interesting topic 69er.  Good luck with it.

Paris 2004.

Celtic Boom time.

Scrotient level was very high.

 

Agree with this. A lot give out about the flags and messing that goes on but its all harmless fun. Could be at a lot worse stuff

 

Saw lads on moving lorries in Bordeaux too

Of course. And it's not even the majority on even the more popular trips such as Wales and Denmark this campaign. There's always been a fierce amount of drink going on even going back to !994 when I started. It feels like I've witnessed more of it since 2012 though. But then, the older I get, the less likely I've been to being in the thick of it so maybe it's more visible to me now.

If I look back on the likes of Brussels 1997, Amsterdam 2000, Paris 2004, Stuttgart 2006, even Paris 2009 when we had very big numbers travelling and a large amount of event junkies I don't recall it being as noticeable or as many lads being barely able to stand. Could be rose tinted specs on my part.

I think there is no doubt that it has got significantly worse.  

It is more than drink these days as well.  Some don't even bother cleaning excessive white powder from their noses.  

I really noticed it first in Poland (although some comments re Paris 04 are valid).  The self-policing is gone now.  

Interesting topic and good luck with it.  However there may well be a backlash against the person who brings it into the public domain.  

 

One absolute asshat (I presume a Liverpool or Man City "supporter") at the beginning of the 2nd half walked from the back of the stand to the front to roar at Kasper Schmeichel how much of a w**ker his Dad is.

 

In saying that, I have experienced nothing but fun and good nature when I have travelled to away games

That's a fair point and I have considered that. It's only for internal college submission at present.

People having fun in Italia '90 - it was the fime of our lives, we were mighty men.

People having fun in Frank '06 - feckin idiots

We've all got old, I'm sure most people think lads in their 20's nowadays with their fancy haircuts are apes too. Nothing to do with Irish football fans.

There definitely was down outside the Moulin Rouge. 

So, in summary...

 

2009 Had just as much of this carry on. Plenty of footballs being kicked around wildly under the Eiffel Tower. Plenty of fans pissing all over the tower in open view to the disgust of the locals / tourists. Plenty of random locals and tourists being verbally abused and showered in beer l  

 

They have a point

Irish fans have always drank way too much and some got messy, very messy but the football always came first.

In Japan 2002 and before the fans were there for the football. The reason for going was to support the national team and have a good time whilst there.

In Poland 2012 a significant portion, maybe 15-20% were there for the p1ss. It was like a stag do with a football match thrown in. 

In France 2016 that % was maybe 20-25%. 

and I only see it getting worse 

 

Agree with this. The level of drinking has gone off the richter in the last decade or so. Poland 2012 was a game changer in that it was the virgin ground for the younger generation who brought home lots of war stories with them. Of course, any of those who missed out on Poland were not going to miss out on France 2016 and this upped the ante on the level of "craic".  Some of the "Tournament"/Big Game awy fans are using the football to replace their beano's in Santa Ponsa or Malia and take serious liberties with their oafish behavior.

 

As for the self-policing, it takes a brave man to stand up to a group of coked upped maggots masquarading as football fans.

True. Can I quote you on that? 

I'm not coming to any conclusion here or attempting to be in any way hysterical. Just asking the question and looking for feedback either way. There were lots of posts about it after Wales and Denmark so thought it might be a topic worth investigating as I had to do a report on something. 

It may not be an Irish thing but Irish football fans on sniff is relatively new, in fairness. There was f**k all of it around in Ireland till the 2000's and no one could afford it if there was. Was more yips and trips in the 90's and not much of that at the football! People doing sniff at football does make a huge difference in behaviour though, the capacity for booze is increased and people end up hitting the wall and crashing when they stop topping up on it.

Ah, I know, wasn't aimed at you in particular. Just trying to put some context around it. 

Everyone tries out do the the last, i remember GF saying that he was happy that they didn't have phone cameras around in the 80s .

Drink has always been number one on away trips  but power trips are something else .

Yer i have come across some real fools but it's best to give these a wide berth .

Younger fans seen to have access to more money than before in days gone by and the facebook,time of your life' only ever happened if you can load it on line quicker then anyone else .

Nothing stays the same or nothing ever changes , ohhhh to be Irish .

There are RoI Fans who label different parts of the group, most usually to devalue other Football Fans.

"Olé, Olé Brigrade", "Bar-Stooler" "YBIG Team" that type of thing.   Maybe if the OP wants their work to be of some longevity value they could gather a list of internally labelled names that RoI Fans give each other.

My own contribution to Dos and Don'ts:

Do Learn to swim.

Don't stand up in the way of other Football Fans in the Stadium.

I'm sure a fair percentage of us have taken or do take drugs, have friends that do and they don't behave like the way we seen some behaving in Copenhagen and Chisinau. 

Agree with this, maybe it's not so prominent with the older younger generation but a very high percentage of young adults here do take drugs, so maybe that explains the different attitudes towards it on here. The behavior is down to the person not what their putting into their bodies. I'm sure nearly everyone here has had a bit too much to drink on a trip and I don't see any big problem with that as long as it's harmless.

Reminded me of this 

A poster on here @irelandfan recently encountered behaviour on a flight to copenhagen that made him feel uncomfortable with fans thinking it was ok to grab airline staff by the ass etc.. surely if the airline slapped a ban on these tools they wouldnt be long copping on as there choice of routes to and from games and familly holidays would be severly effected. Im gobsmacked to why airlines allow such behaviour and I see one Airline saying recently that the sale of alcohol should be restricted at airports so we all would suffer the conceqences of these fools. 

One thing I have noticed is in countries where beer in pubs is expensive like France and Denmark it has driven fans to purchase slabs of beer in local supermarkets for consumption in public areas without control, as in countries where beer is cheap like Serbia people are drinking in pubs and if they missbehave they are refused service and asked to leave a bigger deterent for people to be more civilised. Saw one lad in Tbilisi pour a can from a supermarket into a pint glass under a table in a bar, I mean like a Pint was about a euro ffs so where do you go from here.

Inside the stadium you have people asleep at games, I remember in Gdansk I sold a category A ticket to a lad from my hometown think the cost was about €150 and the lad slept through the whole game and to be fair that was his loss and not a cause of any inconvienece for his fellow fans but then you have the opposite when you have guys so pissed its like walking a tightrope trying to get to and from there seat saw an example of this in Andorra when a lad  well pissed tumbled down on top of a lad and his wife and were lucky to escape serious injury. Imagine if this happened in a restaurant in Ireland where a couple were having a meal and a lad who was extremly drunk fell on top of there table you can be sure that there would be a threat of legal proceedings against the restraunt owner for allowing the drunk person on their premises but this threat is not there in away stadia as its a lot of hassel to put in a claim outside your durastriction.
My first away game was the 2-2 draw in Amsterdam and to be fair I have not witnessed any serious missbehaviour but as I head into my mid 40's I tend to avoid the main gathering of Irish fans on the bigger trips last campaign I found the three Carrotts in belgrade fine, saw no one act the maggot. I missed Moldova but in Austria drank in a bar not far from charlie p's and had two great nights with a handfull of other Irish Fans, Georgia drank in the two main pubs but did encounter a small few arseholes but again no serious problems. Wales opted for weatherspoons and the live lounge and again no problems and finally in copenhagen arrived matchday had a few on the stadium concourse and back to the hotel bar afterwards.

So my first game over 17 years ago saw fans queing for brothels and asleep everwhere from too much weed to Copenhagen in 2017, Dont know if alot has changed just the fact that social media and internet forums make it easier to share these stories and events,

Very good point, much appreciated, Hoskins. 

Is it though? Anecdotally it seems to have got worse.

So is it a case that drunken behaviour in general has got worse on any other drunken night in Ireland. 

Or is it just more visible due to mobile phones and social media?

Or is the fact that there's more footage on social media leading to copycat behaviour?

Does boorish behaviour of role models such as McGregor actually have an impact or is that just something the likes of Fintan O'Toole and others exaggerate?

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-crumlin-children-do-not-need-conor-mcgregor-s-gangsta-fantasies-1.3323179" rel="nofollow - http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-crumlin-children-do-not-need-conor-mcgregor-s-gangsta-fantasies-1.3323179  

Those are the sort of questions I'm interested in. 

 

As am I  - the passengers should be informed that their behaviour is unacceptable/illegal and that they are being met by the cops at the other end. Also their return flight is null and void if applicable and that they are blacklisted from this airline and any airlines in the same group. They could probably be blacklisted form other airlines in a similar vein to the barring orders of pubs. A couple of high profile stories of people with £10K bills due to alternative travel arrangements/flights being re-routed wouldn't be long sorting it out If your barred from Easyjet/Ryanair/Star alliance you are fuked (unless you are superdave )

 

kevincronin2000 wrote: you have the opposite when you have guys so pissed its like walking a tightrope trying to get to and from there seat saw an example of this in Andorra when a lad  well pissed tumbled down on top of a lad and his wife and were lucky to escape serious injury.

 

If it was behind the goal, it was my mrs that was sent flying, she got away with sore ribs

 

Behaviour at away games has got worse because in general peoples behaviour  has got worse - too many people cant distinguish between  a character and a complete dick and think they are the former when they are actually the latter , plenty think the whole world revolves around them and that people will find their tedious lives and antics interesting

We've even heard particular supporters club members fighting amongst themsleves in Moldova FFS

 

Are you sure that wasn't our assistant manager?

 

Who has all the Persian rugs on these away trips and why aren't you sharing with me you tight fooks?

A lot of it has to do with getting older too, these days, I would avoid big crowds in squares and singing Shane Long's on fire for 3 constant days, it more or less bores the sh*te out of me, but more than a decade ago, in the likes of Cyprus in 05/06 or Stuttgart in 06, I would have been in the middle of the crowd in the square or street, singing about Paul McGrath or Gary Breen for 3 days. I can't exactly criticise those that choose to do so today, even if tis not for me any more. 

Cabra did hit on something I agree with though, the good humour (toward others) has declined, back then you could tell a fella yer making a f**kin eejit of yerself, get down off that car bonnet or whatever, and they probably would, but these days , calling out something like that would be likely to get ya a box with several of the eejits  mates joining in. The self policing thing is a myth, it might be true for your own group, or lads ya know, but there are plenty who go to these things with a particularly bad stag do mentality, as long as they enjoy themselves, nobody else matters, and there has been a rise in that. 

It's hard to say overall, for example, was talking to one of the barmaids in Moldova after the Welsh had been there, and she said they were a lot worse behaved than us, standing up on furniture & breaking it, refusing to get down off it or cop on, bits of public nudity, all the while thinking they were hilarious, and that wasn't her experience of the Irish at all. Maybe the survey would be better directed at the likes of staff who worked in Charlie P's on both the recent occasions we were there to see if there was any great difference to them in the 3 years that passed between games, or those in Tbilisi. 

Sometimes ya avoid all the main square/pub stuff and arrive at the match and see half comatose zombies falling around the place, I think this always happened to an extent, but for whatever reason, it seems more noticeable in some venues, Denmark was full of them, but yet Cardiff wasn't, not to the same extent anyway, even though crowd numbers were broadly similar and the games were only weeks apart. 

Still though, my conclusion would be as it has been for more than 10 years, and it does come across as elitist, but generally the less people turn up in a venue, the better behaved it is, ya don't seem to get as many assholes at the further away games, probably because they are mainly there for the football (bad & all as it is) not a glorified stag do that happens to coincide with a match. 

I cannot give this enough laughing emojis, so I won't bother.

Jaysis!  I have had a few good nights in gay bars, but this was my soundtrack to that post...

That George Best lookalike wasn't one of them, was he, by any chance (remember hearing about his antics in Bordeaux at the Euros)?

 

I've only been going on away trips since the Euro 2016 qualifiers and even in that short time I've started avoiding these 'official' ybig meetup bars and instead meeting up with the likes of the Quinn Towers, D69er and co in other bars which have a better balance between being busy and having a good atmosphere but where you can also move around the place, get served and hold a conversation without wrecking your throat due to having to shout to make yourself heard.

 

But in that relatively short time that I've been going to away games, I've definitely noticed more idiots on away trips and they've been in cities that are handy to get to and at weekends - there was a fight in Charlie P's in Vienna the night before the game there last year which was swiftly sorted out, one fella was kicking a door in the old town in Lyon (a number of other lads reacted by chanting 'Are you English in Disguise' at him, and when I saw lads kicking footballs at upstairs windows in Copenhagen last month, I swiftly moved on.

 

Thankfully, nowhere near the levels of hooliganism that English, Russian fans etc are infamous for, and I hope to God it never will be but this definitely needs nipped in the bud but that's easier said than done for many people (myself included, I admit) in case they get turned on if they do try to pull anyone up for acting the maggot, especially if the culprit is off their head on drugs. So unless, someone has a better idea of dealing with it, we could be stuck with these idiots tagging along with us, especially if it's a handy-to-get-to venue at a weekend (as Copenhagen and Vienna were).

 

As has been mentioned above though, I think airline and railway staff need to grow a pair (unlike the fans, they are getting paid to ensure everyone's comfort and safety after all) and either refuse boarding to people behaving badly under the influence of whatever they've been taking (or arrange for the police to meet and arrest them on arrival) would definitely help curb bad behaviour.

We walked a few hundred yards up the road from the Dubliner and found a cracking little pub full of lunatics and geriatric hookers, far more entertaining than watching a bunch of ****s trying to be McGregor.

The formation of a YBIG vigilante group is the obvious answer to this

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0733427/?ref_=tt_trv_qu" rel="nofollow - : Mr. Simpson, how do you respond to the charges that petty vandalism such as graffiti is down eighty percent, while heavy sack beatings are up a shocking nine hundred percent?

Along with social media (FB, Twitter, Joe.ie etc), he has a lot to answer for. 

As an aside, what difference does it make if the culprit 'acting the maggot' is off their head on drugs? What about drink, is that not a drug? Or do we have a different moral code for alcohol?

It is but as mentioned on this thread and on some of the other away-day travel and general threads the problem is that it seems like these idiots are taking both.

 

Doesn't make any odds if people can handle their sh1t. Issue with coke in particular is the increased capacity for drink it brings. Once it wears off or they run out the drink really kicks in and it can get very messy.

 

Unless you're on the fans team.

And what is wrong with taking both? All any drug will do is lower inhibitions, which means the **** is there before drink or drugs are applied, it just becomes more prevalent after. The problem here is as much your own hang-ups as it is the people in question. There are plenty of people that go to Ireland games and take both and you probably never even notice them. Most of the people that act in a ****ish matter after drink and drugs take them to act in a ****ish manner.

I don't think it is about handling it or not, I think people are taking it to make their behaviour more acceptable to themselves. They want to act like that so they take things that lower their inhibitions.

Would it help if we got more people on yokes at away trips? Everyone pulling weird faces, rubbing each others backs and talking about how sound the locals are. 

I suppose it wouldn't be any harm to test. I'm sure candidates for the experiment wouldn't be hard to find

 

That was a grand day out - we were drinking with some mad Russian farm labourers in a pub before the match. They were bouncing pool balls off their heads.

We'll include that in the case study

I'll take two please 

 

Should we start a list?

You've an entire generation of people who grew up listening to tales of '88-'94, so when 2012-2016 happened they were raring to go and replicate the type of stories in the style of what they grew up listening to. But you've to couple this with generational change to a social media era etc. you get people basically trying to 'out-do'  each other for some sort of bizarre e-validation, and that's were the ignorant behavior comes from, in my opinion.

I'd highlight the difference between tournament & non-tournament behavior, two different animals, but I'm assuming you've already thought of this :) 

Yeh and throw in the disposable income that Irish have now on as opposed to back then and all of a sudden everything on away trips is available and on the cards.

I was actually thinking of that song when I posted 

Yeah, I have. Although I think the behaviour in Cardiff and Copenhagen was more akin to a tournament buzz. Not saying that's a bad thing in itself. 

I know of a few people who were on one when the riot broke out v England in 1995......

Sounds suspiciously like "I have a friend who...." etc etc !