Mexico - 1st June - Travel/Accomm/General chat
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Category: International
Forum Name: Away days + World Cup 2022 Accommodation and Travel
Forum Description: Qatar n' all in anyways
URL: https://forum.ybig.ie/forum_posts.asp?TID=54930
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Topic: Mexico - 1st June - Travel/Accomm/General chat
Posted By: Denis Irwin
Subject: Mexico - 1st June - Travel/Accomm/General chat
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 9:41am
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Irish Star reporting it this morning tgat a friendly against Mexico is being lined up for June 1st in New York ------------- Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one". Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
Replies:
Posted By: ccfcmurphy
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 9:54am
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Playing Uruguay 3 days later in Dublin , timing seems strange ------------- There's no point being the richest man in the graveyard |
Posted By: Denis Irwin
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 9:55am
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Expanded sqaud to give fringe players a run out presumably. Wonder how much $$$$ rhe FAI will get for this. ------------- Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one". Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
Posted By: mandrake
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 9:57am
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Oh no.... games against mexico in usa are not good ideas.... remember the dodgy referee high fiving Mexican fans in 1999, I think .. not to mention florida 94 ------------- Come on Irelind |
Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 10:26am
| Anyone in the FAI have any nephews playing 5-a-side in New York? |
Posted By: Butch
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 10:30am
| Just booked return with Norwegian €138 return . Bringing a packed lunch and a plastic bag with spare jocks and socks with a spare tshirt so no add ons . Any other super fans booked up yet ? |
Posted By: MC Hammered
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 10:38am
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Rumors that the FAI have done a deal with Donald Trump to organise this friendly. The planes will be full on the way home anyway ------------- El Puto Amo |
Posted By: Claret Murph
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 11:19am
------------- Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days . |
MC Hammered wrote:Posted By: AnCearrbhach
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 11:26am
If they want to send all their women over I doubt you'll hear too many complaints. ------------- Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
Posted By: ringerbell
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 11:33am
If it true will have to be expanded squad playing all fringe players seen as we game in dublin 3 days later and a crucial WC qualifier against Austria the following week ------------- the closest i will ever come to playing for ireland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0_7w4JyvI4 |
Posted By: Cathalthesmart
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 12:10pm
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If this fixture does happen I hope we send mostly fringe players over and rest the likes of Coleman,McCarthy,Long etc and who ever impresses in New York should be given a shot with the first team against Uruguay. ------------- Hi Lads |
Posted By: Butch
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 12:16pm
This game is only a ploy for Trump to round up all the Irish and Mexican illegals living in NY that will attend the game 
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Posted By: Denis Irwin
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 12:25pm
MC Hammered got there before ye ------------- Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one". Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
Posted By: Butch
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 12:40pm
Haha in work and never read back through the posts |
Posted By: Trap junior
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 1:28pm
The FAI took up the Norwegian Airlines sale. 69 euro each way. ------------- Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more... 97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC) |
Posted By: Charlton's Child
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 1:30pm
Jesus wait till Roy find's out you have to buy your own meal, it will be like Saipan all over again
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Posted By: Trap junior
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 1:34pm
You can imagine Roy's face as the stewardess asks him for 18.50 for a plastic in flight meal. Delaney comes over to tell him that the FAI ia not paying for the meals. [LOL] ------------- Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more... 97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC) |
Posted By: Charlton's Child
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 1:51pm
Martin He's Having a laugh right
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Posted By: RayHoughton
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 4:03pm
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I Hope Luis Garcia and Campos still ain't playing. ------------- George 'The Baggio brothers, of course, are not related' Hamilton |
Posted By: Cabra Hoop
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 4:10pm
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A week before a huge game against Austria and having the panel travel across the atlantic. The FAI would do anything for a few bob. Ridiculous. ------------- " BFC always gives me a laugh........ " |
Posted By: Denis Irwin
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 4:16pm
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Doubt any of the First XI will be invovled. Would be more like the fringe players getting a run out. Likes of Randolph Brady Coleman etc.. will stay behind in Dublin IMO ------------- Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one". Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
Posted By: Cathalthesmart
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 4:36pm
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I'd send over the kids like O'Dowda,Kelly,Egan ect. over, meanwhile we have a different group with the likes of Brady,Coleman,McCarthy,Hendrick,Long etc. stay home and prepare for Uruguay and more importantly Austria. Maybe to attract more viewers Ireland should play Doyle! ------------- Hi Lads |
Posted By: zizu Kilbane
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 4:39pm
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If this is true it's absolutely bizzare ------------- "Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?" |
Posted By: Missy
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 7:39pm
| Long time between end of English season and Austria this extra games means most of the squad fot Austria should get at least 60 mins under their belts. A few days training in the US away from the hype building up for Austria could be a good thing |
Posted By: irishmufc
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 7:52pm
It's 10 days beforehand and I wouldn't be against it tbh. I do think this'll be the game to try out any new players who may have another opportunity in the Uruguay game incase we need unexpected back up on the bench for Austria. ------------- Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been. |
Posted By: Saint Tom
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 8:28am
------------- My destination inchicore my next stop being kilmainham Where patriots and super saints are the topics of conversation |
Posted By: Zinedine Kilbane 110
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 9:39am
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Seems a bizarre suituation before such an important game. If this happen I'm sure none of the first XI would travel. An extra game is no harm for the fringe and up and coming players to get game time. They could even let Javier pick the squad! ------------- |
Posted By: Pipkin
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 10:59am
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Agree with Missy. Its 10 days before the qualifier. The trip to Georgia 3 days before Serbia will take them longer. Yes tha FAI are doing it for a pay day and a jolly but O Neill had to approve it and it serves zero harm. |
Posted By: Pipkin
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 11:00am
Why do you asune that? How long do you think it takes players to recover from playing in a match  You do know we play in Georgia on a Saturday and then Serbia at home on a Tuesday? |
Posted By: greenlad
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 11:39am
| Will joe lapira be getting a run out in this. |
Posted By: 9fingers
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 11:51am
In important qualifiers. Its a little different from a trek across the Atlantic for a pay day |
Posted By: Pipkin
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 12:28pm
My view is that they are either sitting on their arses for 22 hours a day in Abbottstown or in New York. It shouldn't make a blind bit of difference to professional footballers. A night out on the town would be a lot bigger a hindrance on performance than a 6 hour flight, of which we know they all embrace, and I don't see anything wrong with that either.
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Posted By: Steve Amsterdam
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 1:24pm
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Heard this is confirmed this morning. Some very obvious con's in this, but hopefully some pro's aswell. ------------- Molly Malone's pub- The home of YBIG in Amsterdam! |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 1:33pm
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Apart from the world rankings I can't see too many negatives at all. A good trip for a bit of team bonding and to alleviate the boredom before Austria, another chance for some fringe players to get a run out and stake a claim, a chance for some US based fans to see us play and the FAI will make a few quid to pay for JD's bar bill at the Four Seasons. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: Pipkin
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 2:49pm
Agreed that world ranking is only con. The FAI will have some amount of egg on their face if this is difference between seeded in a playoff in October/world cup group stage and not. |
Posted By: greenforever
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 2:52pm
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Cant see what the fuss is about. Does anyone believe MON and Roy would agree to the game if they didn't want it Personally I reckon we need two or even three games between the end of the UK season and Austria. It should be good for team bonding and I'm sure the players would prefer somewhere different than the Castleknock hotel and Abbotstown for a few days. It also makes far more sense for the FAI to take a guaranteed payday than risk a loss making game in LR. ------------- I know nothing :-) |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 3:11pm
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Yeah, it's a bit of a break. Mexico are home to Honduras on the 8th and the USA on the 11th, so they'll not be risking their starters or doing much more than having a few days in NYC either. The biggest problem is Drumpf's forces stopping the Mexicans getting into the US. ------------- 
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Posted By: greenforever
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 3:16pm
Just as well Roy didn't bother going to Iraq for the playoff, that stamp in his passport might stop him getting into the states ------------- I know nothing :-) |
Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 3:19pm
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Just seeing this now. Disappointing. Money grabbing. We just about have a seeded position at the moment, and its a very fine margin. Self-inflicted wound this. If anyone bemoans the draw in October when we play Italy or Spain or Holland in the playoffs, know this: we've a money-grabbing organisation in charge who havent a clue about rankings or anything like that, this is their f**king job, and they're clueless. The money they'd make from qualifying far outweighs this and the iceland money. So annoyed at this. ------------- "I'm off to see the Queen tomorrow too, don't forget that" |
Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 3:22pm
It was in Iran, and passports are only valid for 10 years. ------------- "I'm off to see the Queen tomorrow too, don't forget that" |
Posted By: Denis Irwin
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 3:28pm
Fixed. We all know it's just the one person ------------- Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one". Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 3:30pm
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Incidentally, the USA haven't played Mexico in a World Cup qualifier anywhere south of Columbus, Ohio since 1980. The North isn't exactly renowned for its Mexican population. They could play every game in Dallas or LA, sell 80,000 tickets and lose in front of a partisan crowd, or play in Columbus, sell 20,000 tickets and win (which they did in most games, aside from the most recent), and qualify either way, but they still take a financial hit to help on field success. There's a lesson in that somewhere. -------------
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Posted By: greenforever
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 3:59pm
Do you honestly believe that MON and Roy have no input into weather they play extra friendlies Do you really believe they should have no warm up games before Austria. To me I am far more concerned about winning against Austria than anything else, and you either have confidence in your management or don't. Just playing friendlies (win or lose) will reduce our ranking points - should we stop playing friendlies ? ------------- I know nothing :-) |
Posted By: FrankosHereNow
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 4:05pm
------------- YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018. As You Were Three in a row |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 4:25pm
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I'm not sure there's a need for two friendlies after a long season. A squad of 25 can play a full eleven on eleven ninety minute match in training if you want more "match practice", and more's the point they can do it in a sunnier climate if you want too, even without heading to NYC. Why fly eight hours to New York and harm ranking points? You could quite easily fly to the Algarve, Italy or anywhere sunny in Europe in two or three hours, and play a training game there, even against another European side. The 0-0 training match against Northern Ireland in the Aviva didn't count towards ranking points and there's no reason why we need to play another ranking match in June. That said, I have no great issues with it aside from the potential rankings issues; I certainly don't feel as strongly about it as Rolo does. It is entirely hypothetical that it will affect our ranking in a meaningful way (i.e. that it will be the difference between being a first and second seed in the playoffs if it comes to it, or the difference between being seeded or not seeded in Russia), but I still think there were ways of achieving the same aims as this match is designed to achieve, without affecting ranking points. FIFA rankings count for three things only: World Cup qualification draws, World Cup playoff draw and World Cup finals draws. It is quite hypothetical that it will affect either of the latter two and it very unlikely to affect the first in any great way, given that the next draw is between two and three years away. However, the only reason to have this match, aside from the holiday, and aside from match practice, both of which can clearly be achieved in other ways, is money, but even that might not be that lucrative. It could be, of course, that all the FAI are getting out of this is the cost of flights to NYC and accommodation to go with for all travelling, which is still worth something (compared to the cost of a warm weather break in Europe for the squad, which would be pricey, when you count the cost of charter flights and the accommodation requirements for a squad of 25 plus coaches and officials for three nights - room each is, say, 40 rooms for 3 nights at €250 per night per room minimum for the standard of hotel required = €30,000, and chartering a plane return is not cheap, plus the other costs - I can't imagine change from €100,000 for organising a trip away like this). That's also entirely hypothetical of course, and there are bound to be commercial confidentiality requirements, so we'll never know what the terms of the game are. The break certainly has some positives behind it. If it increases the chances of us beating Austria, all the better, and it might well do that. The downsides are hypothetical but there are other ways of achieving the upsides, albeit they would have costs implications. If it is a "free" trip, I'd almost say why not? It's not a black and white decision, put it like that. -------------
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Posted By: Trap junior
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 4:39pm
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I agree with the lads. This game is a farce. ------------- Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more... 97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC) |
Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 4:49pm
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@SD you can't just say the downsides are hypothetical! Playing friendlies adversely affects our ranking. We're in a scrap for 4th place in the playoff seedings. The FAI don't know that. Nor does MON, I know he is pretty clueless about rankings, based on stuff he has said in the past. He said a couple of years ago he didnt realise friendlies counted towards rankings. I don't blame him though. His employers should be taking care of that and advising him. MON has his own job to do, a job he is doing very well. But he was never going to turn this trip down because he isn't even aware of the implications. Journalists never pick up on this stuff. The FAI aren't even aware of the situation. Only for the fact that a couple of clued-in posters on here pay attention to this kind of thing, there'd be nothing said about it.
------------- "I'm off to see the Queen tomorrow too, don't forget that" |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 5:11pm
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It's hypothetical in the sense that we might not make the playoffs (one way or the other) and playing this game alone might not be the difference between being fourth and fifth in the seedings if we do make the playoffs. I thought I was clear enough on that. The bit in brackets in my first post explained exactly what I meant when I said it was hypothetical. -------------
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Posted By: greenforever
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 5:57pm
If this is the case he's incompetent and shouldn't be in the job. Personally I think most managers only concern themselves with the current time, and Mon's only concern is qualifying for Russia. He won't be thinking of seedings for play offs, he will be looking at winning the group. ------------- I know nothing :-) |
Posted By: Peter Stöger
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 7:56pm
I think this is way OTT and very unfair towards O'Neill. Look, we do the business and it will be up to the Serbs or Wales to worry about their playoff rankings. Que sera sera. Even if we balls up, and lose this meaningless game in the States, so be it we take it on the chin and move on from there. Next you'll be saying we need to wrap the squad in cotton wool between now and October lest someone gets injured. Sure injuries and suspensions are a fact of the game. It won't make much difference at the end of the day. If it keeps us on our toes mentally before Austria it's a good thing.
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Posted By: tetsujin1979
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 8:43pm
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Other than the report in the star, is there any confirmation of the game? ------------- All goals, red & yellow cards posted on https://mastodon.ie/@irish_abroad" rel="nofollow - mastodon and https://www.facebook.com/irishfootballstatisics" rel="nofollow - facebook |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 9:18pm
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Indo have a report as well. Saw it on the face-bok earlier. -------------
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Posted By: Missy
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 10:31pm
Players need game time to keep match fit. I would think this this is a change for MON to look at fringe players in a training camp and with them getting getting game time. We blooded a lot of players in the US Cup years ago so this has its benefits. We have a lot of young players who will benefit from this trip. Whenever we have a decent seeding we get a tough group. This time sh*t seeding and we get a winnable group. People on this forum were looking for an away friendly and now have one. No pleasing some people |
Posted By: Missy
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 10:37pm
What play off we gonna top the group. |
Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 1:03am
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Likely playoff teams, in brackets are the world rankings for March 2017 which will be published by FIFA on 9th March. Ive included Ireland as well, to see how we'd fare out if the draw was tomorrow. Spain (10)/Italy (15) Switzerland (11)/Portugal (8) Holland (21)/Sweden (45) Iceland (22) Ireland (23) Slovenia (58)/Slovakia (25) Northern Ireland (35)/Czech Republic (42)/Azerbaijan (89) Bosnia (29)/Greece (46) Group who look likely to miss out (can change): Romania (39)/Denmark (48)/Montenegro (64) Seeds Spain (10)/Italy (15) Switzerland (11)/Portugal (8) Holland (21) Iceland (22) Unseeded Ireland (23) Slovenia (58)/Slovakia (25) Northern Ireland (35)/Czech Republic (42)/Azerbaijan (89) Bosnia (29)/Greece (46) OR less likely: (if sweden finish ahead of Holland) Seeds Spain (10)/Italy (15) Switzerland (11)/Portugal (8) Iceland (22) Ireland (23) Unseeded Sweden (45) Slovenia (58)/Slovakia (25) Northern Ireland (35)/Czech Republic (42)/Azerbaijan (89) Bosnia (29)/Greece (46) So as it stands we are set to miss out on a seeding by ONE world ranking position. We are also just two places behind one of the other likely seeds, and just two places ahead of one of the likely unseeded teams. It's neck and neck. It will go down to the wire. We can help ourselves by improving our ranking though. Now, what has this got to do with the Mexico match? Well, even if you win a friendly game, it lowers your average, because its worth so few points. To simplify it, imagine you had a system where you had 10 points for each of ten competitive games, so 100 points over 10 games, thats obviously an average of 10 points per game. Now, throw in an extra game, a non-competitive game, worth say, 4 points, so now we're calculating an average over 11 games. So that's 104 points, divided by 11. That's an average of 9.45454545. That's a very simplified way of showing how your average ranking score gets skewed by a silly, meaningless, money-grabbing exercise, flying across the Atlantic ocean and back to play a friendly game against Mexico in the United States of America (three days before we play another friendly which has already been organised against high quality opposition, another game which unfortunately will skew our average even further, and these points aren't easy to get back). I've no time for hypothetical this and hypothetical that, the maths are the maths.
------------- "I'm off to see the Queen tomorrow too, don't forget that" |
Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 1:12am
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^ reading that actually, I hope MON puts out a strong team against Iceland, that game will f**k both of our rankings but if we win (and of course they lose) then its a plus for us in making up ground on them. (ground that we'll weakly hand back to them in the USA on June 1st but still). ------------- "I'm off to see the Queen tomorrow too, don't forget that" |
Posted By: coyne
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 1:23am
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Almost 3 years to the day where O'Neill's Ireland got absolutely destroyed by Portugal in the same stadium. The profit is there because there is huge Irish and Mexican communities in New Jersey (Title says NY but it's NJ) Too much is being read into World Cup rankings, the formula for points gained/lost is more than half of what would be if it were a qualifier match, also the confederation of the Nation you played is a factor - As Mexico is CONACAF it's hardly going to make an impact. People have moaned about a possible 'B' team where the fringe players can get a look in and other potential rough diamonds not being used, this is actually the perfect opportunity for it. Leave the senior team home and take your Andy Boyle's, Cunningham's etc and see how they handle it.
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Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 3:47am
First of all, just as an aside, I've put all the hypothetical and theoretical bits in bold in your post, along with your last comment. There is plenty of "hypothetical this and hypothetical that" in your post and you clearly spent quite a bit of time on it too; to say you have no time for hypotheticals is, frankly, a little disingenuous, particularly in light of the number of hypotheticals in your post. The maths, on a more fundamental basis, in terms of who actually makes the playoffs and who qualifies for the tournament, quite clearly depends on the outcome of the qualifying games between now and October, and the Mexico game may (potentially) have some benefit in this (for the reasons outlined below). Now, just to be clear again, I'm not disagreeing with your maths and the potential for this game to cost us a seeding. We'd all agree that the Mexico game is *almost certain* to have an adverse effect on our ranking. However, the potential for it to make a difference, *if* we make the playoffs, and *if* we miss out on seeding because of the effect of this game, is a different matter. And, having said that, *if* we end up in that exact position and lose in the playoffs, it is also entirely hypothetical to say that we would have made it *if* we'd been seeded (much and all as everyone accepts that an easier draw increases our chances of qualifying, and being seeded increases our chances of an easier draw). It would also be entirely hypothetical to say that the Mexico game was the only reason for our failure to be seeded: hell, if we beat Austria, we may only make the playoffs in the first place because of the match fitness given by the Mexico game! Also, if we are seeded fifth of eight ultimately, we could equally draw the team seeded fourth, just as the reverse could happen if we are seeded fourth in which case the effect of seeding out be limited (although of course there is the home-leg-second advantage to being seeded too). I'm just not sure the Mexico game will *necessarily* have an adverse effect on our chances of qualifying; it may well have a positive effect, for the reasons set out below. The chances of qualifying do not directly correlate with our ranking points, remember. If it gives a few more players a bit more game time ahead of the Austria game, and we can call on them during that game to help us to victory, there's an argument to be made that the Mexico game will have helped us. Indeed, if we use it to give players game time together or practice certain formations and tactics, it may well help our regular players too. Actual qualifying group points count more than ranking points. The Mexico game is about more than just money. A trip away could also help improve squad togetherness and morale (which is already high, and there's no reason to suppose this trip will harm); I'd say it will certainly help more than sitting in a hotel in West Dublin and training in Abbotstown. A bit of game time could also help players who may be coming back to game fitness, especially where the Austria game comes fully five weeks after the end of the English Football League regular season (and three weeks after the end of the Premier League season, albeit of course the Championship playoffs will likely only end two weeks before). The game has more meaning than simply relating to ranking points. If that was all that mattered, I don't think there'd be any dispute that this game was meaningless. However, there are plenty of useful things a trip like this encourages that can't be quantified in ranking points but may result in an increased number of actual points in competitive games and thus more ranking points. Put it like this: if we lose to Mexico but beat Austria, our overall position (in terms of likelihood of qualifying I mean, and possibly ranking points too) will be better than if we don't even play Mexico but lose to Austria. Finally, just on the maths, Iceland are likely to drop a few places between now and the playoff draw: the weighting on their Euro performance will drop with the July rankings, as it moves from the last year to over one year ago (as will ours, admittedly, but not by as much, as we didn't go as far as Iceland - the reduction is large enough, from 100% counted to 50% counted). Similarly, while the Netherlands were not at the Euros, and thus won't lose any Euro points, they will lose some points relative to us and Iceland based on losing all the bonus points they got from the 2014 World Cup (while the weighting for older games is lower, remember they won five World Cup games and made a semi final, so the drop in weighting of those will have a substantial enough effect, as it goes from the "one to two years" weighting to the "two to three years" weighting, 50% to 30%). There are a few things helping us there; I'd agree it's a pity we don't try to maximise that, though. With half of all ranking points coming from the most recent calendar year, it is important we maximise our points: the win in Austria really helped (and will still be in the last twelve months come the playoff draw, which may help), and a win over the Welsh at home in a qualifier would be massive, especially given their current ranking and the effect that would have (plus of course the effect beating Austria again would have). I don't disagree with the general point of your post (this game is bad for our ranking points) but it's not accurate to say that the game is totally meaningless and definitely harmful. It certainly has the potential to be helpful. Too long? Here's the post in two sentences: The Mexico game will cost us ranking points. Losing ranking points is not, necessarily, the be all and end all, if the positives from the Mexico game help us overcome Austria. -------------
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Posted By: deise316
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 5:08am
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Think MON (rightly or wrongly) has somewhat of an old school attitude to rankings, and as Rolo pointed out, I doubt it even crossed his mind as to whether a win/draw/defeat V Mexico would have a positive or negative impact on same. Realistically, there are some minor gulfs in class between some of the No.2 ranked nations (mainly because of those who have fallen to that status from No.1, like Holland et al) but there is much of a muchness among the lower No.2's, the 3rd ranked seeds, and some of the better 4th ranked, ie they are all teams who, on a given day & a good performance & maybe home advantage, could beat one of the other similarly ranked teams. Personally couldn't give a flying fcuk, every 2 years, we get drawn in a group for qualification, no matter what the number in brackets after yer name, you still have to gain enough points off whoever is in it to come 1st, 2nd or 3rd in a group, a lot of it comes down to simple luck & what kind of form d'opposition is in at the time, maybe it is worth reminding people that as current group leaders, we are actually seeded 4th in this group, and (though it is too early to definitively say) we may have been lucky drawing a Bale-dependant Wales and an on the downhill slide Austria, while our likliest looking rivals for the group as it stands are the No.3 ranked Serbia, who were all of about 5 or 6 places above us in the rankings when the draw was made. I do understand what Rolo is getting at in the sense that a decent ranking can at least lessen yer chances of getting a 'group of death' type scenario in the qualifiers, but in practice, it simply doesn't always work out like that, and top seeding is no gaurentee of a handier draw, as tis also dependant on what some of the other nations are up to at the time. Whether good or bad, MON doesn't really care & takes each game as it comes (apologies for cliché), I don't think his attitude to friendlies would be any different had we been drawn in a group with Germany, Italy & Sweden and were currently struggling to mathematically keep in touch with the 2nd ranked team. I really appreciate Rolo's (and the rest of the ranking anoraks, aye, I said ranking) knowledge of these things, because I couldn't really be arsed, but sometimes I can't help thinking that sometimes, too much is made of theoretical & possible scenarios that may or may not affect us in the games that matter. ------------- Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue..... |
Posted By: Missy
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 10:38am
f**k the seeding win the group. I think we we get at least 8 points from our 4 home game and 2 from our Away. |
Posted By: Cathalthesmart
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 11:38am
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Let's not think about those play offs at the moment, if any other team had gotten the results we got and had a fixture list like we have coming up we would be saying they are in poll position to win the group, let's give ourselves a bit of credit and enjoy being the top dog in the group while we can, doesn't happen to often and who knows it might not last even a month so let's enjoy! ------------- Hi Lads |
Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 1:07pm
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I thnk the moment Serbia overtake us in the group is the moment ppl will pay more attention to what I was talking about above. For now, people arent interested as we're top of the group. It's all "much of a muchness" who we play and other similar statements. Very easy to be dismissive of the relevance of the ranking but the simple fact is, if Ireland could face one of Spain, Holland and Portugal in the playoff, that is not as nice an idea as possibly facing Czech Republic or Slovakia. Easy to say now that it comes down to how teams play on the day. I certainly wouldnt be interested in seeing how Spain play on the day when we face them in the away leg in Madrid. Sucha draw in the playoffs would really focus some minds on here. As I said, people arent interested now in listening to warnings about trouble down the tracks, they're enjoying the good times too much and believe they will continue. Playoffs? Sure we're top of the group! ------------- "I'm off to see the Queen tomorrow too, don't forget that" |
Posted By: irishmufc
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 3:08pm
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Ah Roll ffs it's like you're making yourself out to be some type of prophet. I think a lot on here know it's very likely Serbia will overtake us in the next round of qualifiers by winning away to Georgia and us potentially drawing at home to Wales. You're being a bit too dramatic. ------------- Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been. |
Posted By: FrankosHereNow
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 3:10pm
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I also don't get how some posters are dismissive of the playoffs. We've topped a group once in our history. If Wales beat us, everything changes. ------------- YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018. As You Were Three in a row |
Posted By: irishmufc
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 3:19pm
Exactly. Realistically we're always there or thereabouts challenging for the playoff place. We're lucky there's no heavyweights in our group and were also very fortunate to draw in Belgrade and win in Austria given the fact the forward bizarrely used his head instead of foot for that last gap chance. I do think some on here seem to think we're more dominant than we actually are in this group. All our rivals are well capable of beating us in Dublin so long way to go yet. Delighted with our start all the same. ------------- Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been. |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 3:21pm
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No one is being dismissive of the playoffs: I know all I'm saying (this is a lot shorter than the way it is put above) is that, ultimately, it is entirely hypothetical that the rankings impact of the Mexico game on our rankings will make a meaningful impact on our chances of qualification by resulting, in and of itself, in us not being seeded for the playoffs. -------------
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Posted By: Missy
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 3:31pm
We have a 2 points cushion and Serbia to come to Dublin and Vienna.They also have played 1 more at home than we have and we still have a 2 points cushion. We have put ourselves in a great position for once. We are not looking at results elsewhere our destiny is in our own hands. I would not fear playing any of those hypothetical top seeds if the worst comes to the worst. We are now beating teams ranked above us Germany Bosnia Italy and Austria and 2 of them away from Dublin. Change your name to Chicken Licken |
Posted By: greenforever
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 4:30pm
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Rolo When should we play friendlies When should be give new players a run out ------------- I know nothing :-) |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 4:51pm
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That's not really the argument; the argument is about the sheer number of friendlies. Over the last five years (well, since the 1st January, 2012) we have played a total of 27 friendly games. The Welsh have played 12 in the same period and it doesn't seem to have harmed their ability to blood new players and make progress. That's one of the reasons their ranking is above ours (although rankings are done over a four year period, I used five because it's a bigger sample size and shows it in even more stark terms - the relevant numbers over the last four years are 19 and 8). Also, you can blood new players in the easier games, much and all as we have few enough of those in this group. I'd rather be second ranked with fewer friendlies played than third ranked with more played. I haven't counted the Northern Ireland training game because I don't think it counted. -------------
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Posted By: Het-field
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 4:54pm
| I always felt the 2015 Friendly with England was the final nail in the coffin for friendly matches. No passion, no pride. Just going through the motions. Not necessarily the end of them, but an end in the interest that the public would have with them. |
Posted By: DUBLIN DOC
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 5:09pm
------------- When all is said and done there is nothing left to say or do |
Posted By: greenforever
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 5:53pm
Let's look at year by year then 2012 6 Friendlies, 3 pre Euros, Czech, Bosnia and Hungary - can't fault any of them Aug, the pre season friendly date we played Serbia Sept Oman on the way back from Kazakstan November Greece - no qualifiers played in November Of the above, the only one we could say was not of benefit to the tea, would be Oman, and yes it was a big money spinner for the FAI, €250K 2013 Feb Poland May England in London June Georgia home before the Faroes away game June Spain in the States August Wales Nov Latvia and Poland as not in Playoffs So in 2013, possibly no need for the Feb Poland and June Spain games. 2014 MON and Roy take over Mar Serbia & Turkey US Tour May / June Italy & Costa Rica & Portugal Sep Oman before Georgia away Nov USA So the only one of those that wasn't needed Nov V USA. 2015 Only 1 Friendly June England 2016 5 friendlies 4 in the build up to the Euros Mar Switzerland Mar Slovakia May Holland May Belarus Aug Oman b4 Serbia away Can't argue with any of these in my opinion. So for the years 2012 - 2016 4 friendlies may not have been warranted 2017 Uruguay Mexico Iceland If we beat Austria they will have been well worth it. ------------- I know nothing :-) |
Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 5:55pm
| This is a debate for a quiet Sunday if ever I saw one |
Posted By: kevincronin2000
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 6:00pm
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So what hotels have people booked in new jersey :) ------------- time is the stuff that life is made of, don't waste it. |
Posted By: greenforever
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 6:03pm
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Trump Tower, bringing Pipkin with a bannner "Trump Out" ------------- I know nothing :-) |
Posted By: Pipkin
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 6:49pm
My feelings too. Huge crowd and was a complete letdown for everyone there. Saying that, you need to have friendlies. Since the last friendlies in the US in 2014, friendlies have been few and far between. we need games to get players and the team to gel. Id also say we compare very favourably to other nations in the amount of friendlies we have had the past 2 years |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 7:51pm
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Greenforever: if so many of those friendlies were so important, why did Wales do so well with so few friendlies? I think you could make an argument that there's fault in the need for three friendlies before euro 2012 when two would have been plenty (you definitely can't say they helped anyway, given the performances), the three Oman games, Georgia at home (with the Faroes next we hardly needed it), Latvia, the need for three games in the USA tour when two would have done, two of the four pre-Euro 2016 games (I don't think we learnt anything from the Slovakia game), and at least one of three games between Wales and Austria. That's at least ten, and you can make an argument against more than that. Training matches accomplish as much, if not more, than some of those games. I really don't think there's a need to play more than five friendlies annually. Three is plenty. Well selected opposition at the right time is all that's required. The Uruguay game alone would have done it. Certainly, friendlies after qualifiers have little or no benefit. Before the season starts, players don't want to get injured and harm their chances of a good start to the season. The same applies to games during the season; why would players risk anything in what they no doubt see as "meaningless" games (do you think they care about rankings)? Club form is much more important than how a player did during thirty minutes of a friendly against Iceland or Mexico reserves; see the McGeady thread for this. And at the end of the season, no doubt they just want to go on holiday; the games rarely have any competitive bite. There is an argument that way more than four of those friendlies were not merited, anyway. And there's no doubt that loads of them harmed our ranking. -------------
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Posted By: coyne
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 8:33pm
What would Wales actually achieve with these friendlies if they did play them? Ever since Bale signed for Madrid the week we played them in a friendly back 2013, Florentino Perez has made Coleman his bitch and has never called him up for friendlies since. And as the stereotype goes, a Wales without Bale is a terrible team so playing friendlies would be utterly pointless for them. The same question could be asked for our Mexico match. What does it actually achieve? Other than commercial gone, none.
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Posted By: greenforever
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 10:22pm
MON took over in Nov 13, we had 8 friendlies before our next qualifier. Do you think he had no input into any of these games? The Nov games were already, but the next 6 were surely arranged with his approval. As a rookie international manager, I reckon that those games were very beneficial. I also doubt if they would have had that many games if MON did not want them. While we wont agree, I will leave it with MON, as manager he should be dictating the kind of games and number of games we play. ------------- I know nothing :-) |
Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 4:21pm
Of course MON approves every single friendly game. Nobody is arguing to the contrary ffs. But he doesn't know the implications of accepting them. Simple as. When quizzed a couple of years ago, he said he hadn't been aware friendlies counted towards ranking points. It's clear he isn't even aware that winning a friendly does more damage to your ranking than not playing a friendly. It's up to his bosses to fill him in. If they just keep offering him friendlies, he'll accept most (if not all) of them! As you are the chief apologist for the FAI, Im not surprised you're trying to divert all blame from them onto the manager. ------------- "I'm off to see the Queen tomorrow too, don't forget that" |
Posted By: gufct
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 6:41pm
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Losing sight of the goal of wc qualification for a paycheque where else would you get it. ------------- One City,One County,One Club GUFC will be back. |
Posted By: Claret Murph
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 7:22pm
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Money is king for the FAI . ------------- Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days . |
Posted By: t_rAndy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 7:54pm
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The ranking rules have not changed, it's only becoming a bit of thing since wales climbed so high in a quick space of time and made a point about the tactic of skipping friendlies. Most other organisations and managers are still organising friendlies for the main purpose of team preparation and financial gain. So nothing new in setting up a friendly like this we usually do a US trip in the summers when no tournament is on. So as said, nothing new. As a squad, who wouldn't like the idea of a few days in New York. Pretty sure O'Neill would be involved in the decision and seen a benefit. |
Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 8:11pm
| f**k sake lads, go and win the game, f**k the rankings |
Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 8:26pm
I dont get this attitude. ------------- "I'm off to see the Queen tomorrow too, don't forget that" |
Posted By: greenforever
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 8:50pm
You can't see the other side of an argument The most important thing is 3 points against Austria and its up to the manager to decide what ate the best preparations. If MON is not up to the job he should be replaced Maybe if MON is that incompetent Kerrzy needs to get the bed sheet back out. ------------- I know nothing :-) |
Posted By: Peter Stöger
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 9:00pm
This. If the squad end up in Harry Ramdsens and then go on to hockey Austria 3-0 nobody will give a flying monkey's flute what transpired in New Jersey any more tham how much our ranking in 1986 might have been affected by the latent aerodynamics of Tony Galvin shaving his balls before we played Luxembourg.
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Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 9:01pm
In fairness to rolo, he's never claimed that. And shedite, it's not about winning the game, it's about not playing what might well be a totally unnecessary one (much and all as we can likely never know the answer to that). -------------
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Posted By: Missy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 9:27pm
| When its mathematical impossible for us to top the group I will then look at rankings. |
Posted By: grannyrule
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 10:44pm
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I think this is a great match to test out other players. I would like to see a team like this : Rob Elliot Matt Doherty John Egan Daragh Lenihan Greg Cunningham Liam Kelly Alan Browne Ryan Manning Conor Hourihane Daryl Horgan Callum O'Dowda Sub : Connor Ronan, Josh Cullen ------------- The only way is up |
Posted By: GreenDodger93
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 10:50pm
| Booking flights on pay day from San Diego. Can't wait! |
Posted By: Hickster74
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 10:50pm
I can see both sides but two things are for sure. This game will have a negative effect on our ranking points regardless of result. It'll be too late to look at rankings if it becomes impossible to top the group. Rankings are close so it would have been best to give this one a miss. Or to have waited a couple of weeks for three more points before finalising. ------------- "Perhaps the reason that they did not consider the worst, was because discussion of such cases would have cast suspicion on the planner as being a "saboteur". Paranoia was rampant throughout." |
Posted By: FrankosHereNow
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 9:09am
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I'd be fairly sure that Rolo has a better understanding of the rankings than anyone in the FAI, certainly he has more of an understanding than MON. A lot of journalists haven't got a clue about rankings either. ------------- YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018. As You Were Three in a row |
Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 10:12am
We were Pot 1 in Euro 2004 and didn't qualify, we were Pot 3 in Euro 2012 and did qualify. We were Pot 2 in WC 2006 and didn't qualify, we were Pot 3 in WC 2002 and did qualify. We were Pot 3 in WC 2010 and WC2014 and didn't qualify, we were Pot 4 in WC2018 and are flying. It's all luck, World Rankings are nice to see on paper, but I'd much prefer to see my team playing football than avoiding games.
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Posted By: thebronze14
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 10:19am
| Might as well make it a bit easier for ourselves. The FAI's job is for the good of Irish football, not to make a quick buck..They are FAIling on a lot of fronts however |
Posted By: Borussia
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 10:30am
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To those of you saying "F**k the rankings", I'd suggest you go and have a look how Wales found themselves in the semi final of Euro 2016. It wasn't by accident. |
Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 10:44am
http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016_qualifying#Seeding" rel="nofollow - They came from Pot 4 in the qualifiers and beat a bunch of teams to qualify. http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016#Final_draw" rel="nofollow - They were then in Pot 4 in the final draw and beat a bunch of teams to get to the semi final. Winning matches is far better than avoiding matches.
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Posted By: Borussia
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 10:58am
Fair point - You are right in this instance. I should have correctly referenced their seeding for the World Cup Qualifiers and probably referenced Holland more as a better example of what not paying attention to friendlies can do for you. |
Posted By: greenforever
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 12:30pm
Yes Wales are No 1 seeds in our group The group table is upsidedown a bit at the moment There is a huge element of luck in the draws every time Bottom line MON is the boss and he will be judged on results. I doubt very much he would agree to any friendly that he felt would jeopardize qualification So far he's doing a good job ------------- I know nothing :-) |
Posted By: Borussia
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 12:43pm
But then having a better seeding means you are doing what you can to minimise this so-called luck going against you. O'Neill's contract is up until the end of this qualification campaign : He currently doesn't have a contract for when the impact of any seedings would be felt. Somebody has to have an eye on the bigger picture. |