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UEFA Nations League

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Category: International
Forum Name: Republic Of Ireland
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URL: https://forum.ybig.ie/forum_posts.asp?TID=54880
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Topic: UEFA Nations League
Posted By: DalyerRegular
Subject: UEFA Nations League
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 7:13pm
Due to kick off in September 2018. According to the link below we are currently in Division AShocked

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/news/newsid=2437695.html#how+uefa+nations+league+could+line



Replies:
Posted By: The White Cafu
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 7:23pm
Is this replacing the normal Euro qualifiers system??


Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 7:34pm
Division A
Germany, France, Belgium, Portugal, Switzerland, Spain, England, Italy, Croatia, Poland, Republic of Ireland, Ukraine
 
That would be an utter balls for our world rankings.


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I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona


Posted By: LHurlz
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by The White Cafu The White Cafu wrote:

Is this replacing the normal Euro qualifiers system??
No it's just a tournament that will replace meaningless friendlies.  Normal Euro qualifiers will still happen


Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:


Division A
Germany, France, Belgium, Portugal, Switzerland, Spain, England, Italy, Croatia, Poland, Republic of Ireland, Ukraine
 
That would be an utter balls for our world rankings.


Great trips and full house home games

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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.


Posted By: Denis Irwin
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 7:44pm
Delaney must be creaming himself

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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn


Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by LHurlz LHurlz wrote:

Originally posted by The White Cafu The White Cafu wrote:

Is this replacing the normal Euro qualifiers system??
No it's just a tournament that will replace meaningless friendlies.  Normal Euro qualifiers will still happen
Actually there are 4 Euro spots up for grabs and I suspect it will eventually replace Euro qualifiers, if not WC qualifying too.


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I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona


Posted By: Rustybedsprings
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 7:50pm
Jesus we'll be in for a battering in that division. Cracking games though. Plus the odd Oman match for good measure.


Posted By: LHurlz
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

Originally posted by LHurlz LHurlz wrote:

Originally posted by The White Cafu The White Cafu wrote:

Is this replacing the normal Euro qualifiers system??
No it's just a tournament that will replace meaningless friendlies.  Normal Euro qualifiers will still happen
Actually there are 4 Euro spots up for grabs and I suspect it will eventually replace Euro qualifiers, if not WC qualifying too.
Might end up doing so in the long run, but Euro 2020 qualifiers will run as usual


Posted By: gspain
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 8:06pm
Unfortunately we are very unlikely to be in Group A.  It is decided based on 3 campaigns - 20% of 2014, 40% of 2016 and 40% of 2018.  

It is biased on the current results and since we have 10 points out of 12 in this campaign it is skewed.  We would probably need another 4 or even 5 wins to make Group A.

This site below only includes the current campaign on a game by game basis and factors in the total scores from the last 2.   It has us in 17th and while we are very close to Group A so are approx ten teams.  


http://www.footballseeding.com/national-ranking-uefa/ranking-2017/" rel="nofollow - http://www.footballseeding.com/national-ranking-uefa/ranking-2017/


Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 8:06pm
In fairness I think depends on the draw but it be a nice backdoor into the 2020 Euros as at least one from each division will qualify

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You can motorboat but no whistling


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

Originally posted by LHurlz LHurlz wrote:

Originally posted by The White Cafu The White Cafu wrote:

Is this replacing the normal Euro qualifiers system??
No it's just a tournament that will replace meaningless friendlies.  Normal Euro qualifiers will still happen
Actually there are 4 Euro spots up for grabs and I suspect it will eventually replace Euro qualifiers, if not WC qualifying too.
In fairness to UEFA, they have really simplified the tournament for 2020.


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Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 8:21pm
There's a Euro 2020 spot up for grabs in that group of 4. Any team that comes top 2 in their group in qualifying is out of the running for that qualification spot. Could be a handy backdoor for someone (ie us!).

You could easily see a scenario where all of those teams end up in the top two of their Euro qualifying group.....
Germany, France, Belgium, Portugal, Switzerland, Spain, England, Italy, Croatia, Poland, Republic of Ireland, Ukraine



Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 8:34pm
The bottom 16 teams - the lower tier countries - are guaranteed one place at the tournament.

That will upset the elitist world cup snobs who think only the best teams should be involved.


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Matt Cooper: What do you think is different this time?
John Delaney: Well we can understand our manager which is great. I tell you what, his English was always great when we were discussing the wages!


Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by rolo rolo wrote:

The bottom 16 teams - the lower tier countries - are guaranteed one place at the tournament.

That will upset the elitist world cup snobs who think only the best teams should be involved.
 
Have a day off.

Major tournaments are an elite event for FFS.


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I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona


Posted By: gspain
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

There's a Euro 2020 spot up for grabs in that group of 4. Any team that comes top 2 in their group in qualifying is out of the running for that qualification spot. Could be a handy backdoor for someone (ie us!).

You could easily see a scenario where all of those teams end up in the top two of their Euro qualifying group.....
Germany, France, Belgium, Portugal, Switzerland, Spain, England, Italy, Croatia, Poland, Republic of Ireland, Ukraine


Yes if we can get into Group A we'd have a great chance.  Most of group A (if not all) will probably qualify for Euro2020.  We would surely at worst be in the 4 team playoff spot and even that would involve teams from Group B not good enough to qualify or be in the top 4 of Group B.  It may even include a couple from Group C.    

The top 10 in Group A would be top seeds for the 2020 draw as well.  

We'd also have the 2 home games v top sides and 2 cracking away games.  As I said above though it is unlikely we will make it.  


Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by rolo rolo wrote:

The bottom 16 teams - the lower tier countries - are guaranteed one place at the tournament.

That will upset the elitist world cup snobs who think only the best teams should be involved.


One team out of twenty four is fair enough, when the rest are basically all on merit.

A bloated 48 team world cup with vast numbers of teams who will likely be uncompetitive against the strongest teams is quite different, especially if other more competent teams are excluded.

It's a different argument entirely, and you don't need to construct a straw man or engage in ad hominems and call your opponents elitist snobs to try and somehow prove that your argument about the world cup is right and that anyone opposed to it but not opposed to this is a hypocrite. It is possible to agree with this and disagree with the expansion of the world cup: it's a balance between quality, competition and participation. One smaller team in the euros isn't going to affect that much; ten more mediocre teams in the world cup is more likely to do so. It's not black and white.

Anyway, we've all had this argument before and there's no real need to revisit it. We know where you stand; you know where others stand; it doesn't look like anyone is going to be persuaded otherwise.


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Posted By: valo88
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 9:40pm
This is bad news for us, how can so many not see through this???

Its designed to give the bigger teams a second chance should they need it, and thats it.

Regular Euro qualifying is going to lose out on the 3rd place playoff spots for this.

And to be able to win one of the 4 nations league places you need to finish top 4 in league A!

Were never going to be in league A, let alone finish top 4!

Its designed so the top 12 teams in UEFA can win assure themselves qualification.



Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by valo88 valo88 wrote:

This is bad news for us, how can so many not see through this???

Its designed to give the bigger teams a second chance should they need it, and thats it.

Regular Euro qualifying is going to lose out on the 3rd place playoff spots for this.

And to be able to win one of the 4 nations league places you need to finish top 4 in league A!

Were never going to be in league A, let alone finish top 4!

Its designed so the top 12 teams in UEFA can win assure themselves qualification.

That's not true. We have to finish in the top 4 of teams already not qualified!


Posted By: edthered
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2017 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by valo88 valo88 wrote:

This is bad news for us, how can so many not see through this???

Its designed to give the bigger teams a second chance should they need it, and thats it.

Regular Euro qualifying is going to lose out on the 3rd place playoff spots for this.

And to be able to win one of the 4 nations league places you need to finish top 4 in league A!

Were never going to be in league A, let alone finish top 4!

Its designed so the top 12 teams in UEFA can win assure themselves qualification.



Only 1 of the teams in League A will get a qualifying spot tho. Each League gets one. So we *only* have to win our mini group then win the play off among all the group winners in our League. Clear as mud! It does mean that a bottom 16 team will definitely qualify


Posted By: valo88
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 12:50am
Originally posted by edthered edthered wrote:

Originally posted by valo88 valo88 wrote:

This is bad news for us, how can so many not see through this???

Its designed to give the bigger teams a second chance should they need it, and thats it.

Regular Euro qualifying is going to lose out on the 3rd place playoff spots for this.

And to be able to win one of the 4 nations league places you need to finish top 4 in league A!

Were never going to be in league A, let alone finish top 4!

Its designed so the top 12 teams in UEFA can win assure themselves qualification.



Only 1 of the teams in League A will get a qualifying spot tho. Each League gets one. So we *only* have to win our mini group then win the play off among all the group winners in our League. Clear as mud! It does mean that a bottom 16 team will definitely qualify


No, they dont. league A gets the 4 spots. As shown below. You can only get promotion/relegation from B/C/D for the following campaign.




Posted By: The Fly
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 1:35am
That's not right, you're looking at the overall Nation League Champions, which will be in June in 2019.

The playoff happens in March 2020, with the 4 highest ranked non-qualified teams in each league getting another chance.

  • In addition, the UEFA Nations League will provide teams with another chance to qualify for the UEFA EURO final tournament, with four sides qualifying through play-off matches which take place in March 2020 (see below).
  • The four remaining UEFA EURO 2020 places will be allocated to the winners of play-off matches which will take place in March 2020:
    • 16 sides will take part in the play-offs and are grouped four by four. Each group vies for one qualification spot.




Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 1:42am
The "final four competition" is different from the qualifying spots for the Euros. Each League (ABCD) gets a spot in the Euros.

And there are playoffs for those who don't make it.

Say the following happens:
10 of the teams in League A qualify for Euro 2020 through their qualifying groups.
8 of the teams in League B qualify for Euro 2020 through their qualifying groups.
2 of the teams in League C qualify for Euro 2020 through their qualifying groups.
And 0 from League D.

Then the playoffs would look as follows:
League A playoffs: 2 teams from League A (the two not already qualified), 2 teams from (I think) League C (the fifth and sixth ranked team who didn't qualify)
League B playoffs: 4 teams from League B (the four not already qualified)
League C playoffs: 4 teams from League C (the teams ranked 3 to 6 in League C)
League D playoffs: the top four teams

There is one small issue, and I'm not sure if the League A playoffs would have the 2 League A teams and the top two League B teams, or the 2 League A teams and the next 2 teams not already in the playoffs, which would be a pair of League C teams. I'd guess at the latter, for a number of reasons: not to penalise the teams who have already made the playoffs, not to give the teams in League A tough games etc etc (and I think the wording of the regulations suggest this).

In terms of the ranking of teams, I don't quite know how it will work. I think the four group winners in each case will count, but say you have a situation, in League B, where in one of the groups the first two teams have qualified for Euro 2020 already but the team who finished bottom have not, and in another group, none of the three teams qualified, and there were two playoff spots to be filled: would they go to one team from each group (i.e. the team bottom of the first group and the winner of the second), or the teams with the best overall record (likely the top two teams in the second group). I don't know the answer to that one, although I think it is the latter (they would count as the next best teams in the division I suppose)

But anyway, it will not be a complete disaster for us, even if the format is horrendously, unnecessarily complex.


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Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 9:07am
Originally posted by valo88 valo88 wrote:

Originally posted by edthered edthered wrote:

Originally posted by valo88 valo88 wrote:

This is bad news for us, how can so many not see through this???

Its designed to give the bigger teams a second chance should they need it, and thats it.

Regular Euro qualifying is going to lose out on the 3rd place playoff spots for this.

And to be able to win one of the 4 nations league places you need to finish top 4 in league A!

Were never going to be in league A, let alone finish top 4!

Its designed so the top 12 teams in UEFA can win assure themselves qualification.



Only 1 of the teams in League A will get a qualifying spot tho. Each League gets one. So we *only* have to win our mini group then win the play off among all the group winners in our League. Clear as mud! It does mean that a bottom 16 team will definitely qualify


No, they dont. league A gets the 4 spots. As shown below. You can only get promotion/relegation from B/C/D for the following campaign.


That image is just to win the Nations League. This image shows the qualification routes....


It's a bit confusing alright that the same competition is used for 2 purposes.


Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 9:11am
IMO, it will make it slightly harder for the 13-24 ranked UEFA teams to qualify. Previously they had to finish 3rd in their qualifying group and win one playoff group.

Now 3rd in qualifying group won't be worth a thing.

Instead, they'll have to likely win 2 their NL group, and then 2 playoff games against similar teams. At the same time, team ranked 25 has an easier route than teams 13-24, as they have to do the same, but against teams ranked 26-36.

As an aside, I hated that third placed teams got through, so happy enough with this.


Posted By: Shoco
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 9:27am
Originally posted by rolo rolo wrote:

The bottom 16 teams - the lower tier countries - are guaranteed one place at the tournament.

That will upset the elitist world cup snobs who think only the best teams should be involved.

FFS bore of and leave the petty nonsense out of the Ireland section


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YOUR 3 IN A ROW LEAGUE CHAMPIONS


Posted By: valo88
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 9:29am
I stand corrected so.

So in theory it'd be better for us to rank, lose a lot of our games and qualify for a playoff via C or D no?

Seems a bit flawed in that sense.


Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 9:57am
Originally posted by valo88 valo88 wrote:

I stand corrected so.

So in theory it'd be better for us to rank, lose a lot of our games and qualify for a playoff via C or D no?

Seems a bit flawed in that sense.


I thought this myself.

Another random question (probably asked and answered already but) if say if we are in League A and we finish 3rd in group all the other nations in League A qualify via normal qualifiers would we then qualify as the best League A not qualified without having to play a Playoff? or would we have to say a League B, C or D team?


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You can motorboat but no whistling


Posted By: gspain
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 10:34am
Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Originally posted by valo88 valo88 wrote:

I stand corrected so.

So in theory it'd be better for us to rank, lose a lot of our games and qualify for a playoff via C or D no?

Seems a bit flawed in that sense.


I thought this myself.

Another random question (probably asked and answered already but) if say if we are in League A and we finish 3rd in group all the other nations in League A qualify via normal qualifiers would we then qualify as the best League A not qualified without having to play a Playoff? or would we have to say a League B, C or D team?

No there will still be league A playoffs even if it involves teams moving up from Group B and even C.  

If we end up in Group A we will be almost guaranteed a playoff at worst as surely more than 7 out of the other 11 will qualify.  If we end up in Group A and finish bottom of our group we still have a 50% chance of being a top seed for the 2020 qualifiers.  Group A would be fantastic for us in so many ways.

If we end up in Group B  then finishing at worst 2nd will be important as we avoid relegation to Group C and crucially will get a 2nd seed for the 2020 qualifiers.  

It is very very unlikely we will drop to Group C for 2018.   I think it is almost certain at least 16 of the qualifiers will come from Group A and Group B.  Hence worst case we will be involved in a 4 team playoff for a place in Euro 2020 in March 2020.  Hopefully we will qualify for 2020 via the qualifiers though.  




Posted By: gspain
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 10:41am
Originally posted by valo88 valo88 wrote:

I stand corrected so.

So in theory it'd be better for us to rank, lose a lot of our games and qualify for a playoff via C or D no?

Seems a bit flawed in that sense.

There is an incentive for the lower teams in C to drop to D.  The likes of Azerbaijan and Cyprus would have little chance to qualify for Euro2020 unless they dropped to Group D.  Ditto it is in the interests of Georgia and Belarus to remain in D. No harm in reminding the Georgians of that next September.  Big smile

We will almost certainly have a first time qualifier in 2020.

Otherwise it is better to stay as high as possible as it means a better seeding for qualifiers.  


Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 4:50pm
I hate this. Its pandering to everyone and weakening a major tournament at the same time.
Georgia could potentially make a Euros by beating the likes of Liechtenstein and Gibraltar.
While our route could potentially be Spain and Germany.
Where is the sense in that?


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I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona


Posted By: LHurlz
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

I hate this. Its pandering to everyone and weakening a major tournament at the same time.
Georgia could potentially make a Euros by beating the likes of Liechtenstein and Gibraltar.
While our route could potentially be Spain and Germany.
Where is the sense in that?
Agree, major tournaments should be qualified for through merit not sympathy.  Although I'd much rather have this instead of the usual meaningless friendlies.


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

I hate this. Its pandering to everyone and weakening a major tournament at the same time.
Georgia could potentially make a Euros by beating the likes of Liechtenstein and Gibraltar.
While our route could potentially be Spain and Germany.
Where is the sense in that?
In theory the Nations League isn't a bad idea, anything that tries to remove the monotonous test of endurance that is watching an international friendly is to be welcomed, why they have to overcomplicate matters is beyond me, especially as it is being introduced in time for the most complicated international competition in history. If it wasn't crazy enough having quarter finals in Asia and the semis in London they have decided to open up the most bizarre qualification scenario possible, all to whittle 55 teams down to 24. 
MichelClapClapClapClap


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Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: stokeirish
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 7:39pm
Surely we would be in league 2 on current ranking? 🤔


Posted By: stokeirish
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by stokeirish stokeirish wrote:

Surely we would be in league 2 on current ranking? 🤔


Or league b even


Posted By: Bitored
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

I hate this. Its pandering to everyone and weakening a major tournament at the same time.
Georgia could potentially make a Euros by beating the likes of Liechtenstein and Gibraltar.
While our route could potentially be Spain and Germany.
Where is the sense in that?
In theory the Nations League isn't a bad idea, anything that tries to remove the monotonous test of endurance that is watching an international friendly is to be welcomed, why they have to overcomplicate matters is beyond me, especially as it is being introduced in time for the most complicated international competition in history. If it wasn't crazy enough having quarter finals in Asia and the semis in London they have decided to open up the most bizarre qualification scenario possible, all to whittle 55 teams down to 24. 
MichelClapClapClapClap
I originally thought it was a way to give a competitive edge to what are now friendlies and I welcomed it.
Now, every time I read up on it I find something else I don't like about it.
 
The cynic in me is thinking its a way to tier qualifying in Europe so the likes of England and Germany don't have to drag their arse to Gibraltar or San Marino.
 
 


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I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona


Posted By: musicinmouth
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 10:10am
We are currently http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/news/newsid=2437695.html" rel="nofollow - forecast to be in the top tier (A).

This means we'd be pretty much gauranteed a play off spot even if we lost all our games, because everyone else in that tier will likely qualify in their Euro group.

And we get to play interesting games.

Why would this be bad?!!


Posted By: Peter Stöger
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 11:02am
Originally posted by musicinmouth musicinmouth wrote:

We are currently http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/news/newsid=2437695.html" rel="nofollow - forecast to be in the top tier (A).

This means we'd be pretty much gauranteed a play off spot even if we lost all our games, because everyone else in that tier will likely qualify in their Euro group.

And we get to play interesting games.

Why would this be bad?!!

Would take that if true. Plus you'd imagine the top sides will be putting our weaker teams at the request of the big clubs


Posted By: nvidic
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 9:02pm
We'll be in League B more than likely which has four groups of three teams, everyone plays each other home and away.

Group winner gets promoted to League A. Loser goes to League C.

League B has one Euro 2020 spot available, which the group winners play off for, if the group winner has already qualified, then the second placed team goes into the qualifier

As it stands we'll play one of Austria, Sweden, Slovakia and Holland as well as one of the nordies, Czech Republic, Hungary and Turkey

That'll all change as we slide down the rankings


Posted By: Denis Irwin
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 9:21pm
Austria wouldn't mind a trip back to Vienna

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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn


Posted By: GB 1HughJarse
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

We'll be in League B more than likely which has four groups of three teams, everyone plays each other home and away.

Group winner gets promoted to League A. Loser goes to League C.

League B has one Euro 2020 spot available, which the group winners play off for, if the group winner has already qualified, then the second placed team goes into the qualifier

As it stands we'll play one of Austria, Sweden, Slovakia and Holland as well as one of the nordies, Czech Republic, Hungary and Turkey

That'll all change as we slide down the rankings


Slide down the rankings?

Win away to Georgia
Draw at home to Serbia
Win at home to Moldova
Draw away to Wales

Slide up the rankings

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1 Hugh Jarse....Bada Bing


Posted By: nvidic
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 9:41pm
We're due to go down 6 places as is, even if what you say happens we won't be up much from where we are now


Posted By: irelandfan
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 10:35pm
I can't understand how a lot of people seem to be against the nations league International friendlies are beyond a chore at this stage to attend. These 6 matches after the world cup will be competitive and should attract far better crowds than meaningless warm up games. 

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I'm the gaffer whatever I say goes.


Posted By: GB 1HughJarse
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by irelandfan irelandfan wrote:

I can't understand how a lot of people seem to be against the nations league International friendlies are beyond a chore at this stage to attend. These 6 matches after the world cup will be competitive and should attract far better crowds than meaningless warm up games. 


Totally agree.
Plus the qualifying campaign for Euro 2020 will be from March to November 2019.
2 matches in March, June, September, October & November.

10 matches spread over 13 months as it is, is a pain.

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1 Hugh Jarse....Bada Bing


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 10:43pm
If we are in a group with those teams we will make a fortune on the correct scores! Never have I seen so many certain 1-1 draws.

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Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: Newryrep
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by GB 1HughJarse GB 1HughJarse wrote:

Originally posted by irelandfan irelandfan wrote:

I can't understand how a lot of people seem to be against the nations league International friendlies are beyond a chore at this stage to attend. These 6 matches after the world cup will be competitive and should attract far better crowds than meaningless warm up games. 


Totally agree.
Plus the qualifying campaign for Euro 2020 will be from March to November 2019.
2 matches in March, June, September, October & November.

10 matches spread over 13 months as it is, is a pain.


10 games over 8 months us heavy on the pocket



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'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941


Posted By: nvidic
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 11:39pm
Originally posted by irelandfan irelandfan wrote:

I can't understand how a lot of people seem to be against the nations league International friendlies are beyond a chore at this stage to attend. These 6 matches after the world cup will be competitive and should attract far better crowds than meaningless warm up games. 


Only four games - three team group


Posted By: irelandfan
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 11:47pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by irelandfan irelandfan wrote:

I can't understand how a lot of people seem to be against the nations league International friendlies are beyond a chore at this stage to attend. These 6 matches after the world cup will be competitive and should attract far better crowds than meaningless warm up games. 


Only four games - three team group

Correct you are still beats games against Oman I think it's a positive move forward by UEFA. 


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I'm the gaffer whatever I say goes.


Posted By: ConorMac77
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by irelandfan irelandfan wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by irelandfan irelandfan wrote:

I can't understand how a lot of people seem to be against the nations league International friendlies are beyond a chore at this stage to attend. These 6 matches after the world cup will be competitive and should attract far better crowds than meaningless warm up games. 


Only four games - three team group


Correct you are still beats games against Oman I think it's a positive move forward by UEFA. 

Or at least it would if we were in a 4-team group. But the fact we'll be in a 3-team group will leave us with 2 spare dates for friendlies. And I think we all know who one of those friendlies is bound to be against...

But yeah, you're right, UEFA have finally copped on that there's just no appetite for friendlies as you can see by the often poor crowds and flat atmosphere and not just at our games. Bring it on.

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The nation holds it's breath...YES, WE'RE THERE!!!


Posted By: gspain
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

We're due to go down 6 places as is, even if what you say happens we won't be up much from where we are now

Our slide is down the FIFA rankings.  This is affected by playing too many friendlies particularly if you lose them.  Of course you benefit from playing them in blooding players.

The Nations League is determined by the UEFA rankings.

The UEFA rankings is based on competitive games only and is much fairer IMO.  We are almost certain to be in Group B of the nations league although with 4 games to go the makeup of who we can meet will change.  

  


Posted By: nvidic
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

We're due to go down 6 places as is, even if what you say happens we won't be up much from where we are now


Our slide is down the FIFA rankings.  This is affected by playing too many friendlies particularly if you lose them.  Of course you benefit from playing them in blooding players.

The Nations League is determined by the UEFA rankings.

The UEFA rankings is based on competitive games only and is much fairer IMO.  We are almost certain to be in Group B of the nations league although with 4 games to go the makeup of who we can meet will change.  

  


Never knew that about the friendlies!



Posted By: Charlton's Child
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

We're due to go down 6 places as is, even if what you say happens we won't be up much from where we are now


Our slide is down the FIFA rankings.  This is affected by playing too many friendlies particularly if you lose them.  Of course you benefit from playing them in blooding players.

The Nations League is determined by the UEFA rankings.

The UEFA rankings is based on competitive games only and is much fairer IMO.  We are almost certain to be in Group B of the nations league although with 4 games to go the makeup of who we can meet will change.  

  


Never knew that about the friendlies!



Yea Chris Coleman of Wales has stopped letting Wales play friendlys sicne been in charge to help with rankings


Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 6:28pm
Wales were sixth seeds in the FIFA rankings as recently as the 2010 World Cup qualifiers. But because they stopped playing friendlies, they rocketed up the rankings. They did only finish second bottom of their 2014 qualifying group but the start they made to the euro 2016 group (top at the time of the 2018 qualifying draw) and the absence of friendlies, plus the extra weight for recent results, saw them in the first seeds, only four years later, having risen over 100 places in the rankings. It's not like their results were sensational (they were good: a 3-0 win in Israel is no doubt a good result) but gaming the system; there's no reason we couldn't have tried the same and risen to second seeds at least.

But I guarantee we will continue to play extra friendlies against Oman and the likes, even after the Nations League starts, and drop even further down the rankings. It's quite unfortunate that the finances of the association, stadium and debt mean we have to play those games.


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Posted By: Charlton's Child
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Wales were sixth seeds in the FIFA rankings as recently as the 2010 World Cup qualifiers. But because they stopped playing friendlies, they rocketed up the rankings. They did only finish second bottom of their 2014 qualifying group but the start they made to the euro 2016 group (top at the time of the 2018 qualifying draw) and the absence of friendlies, plus the extra weight for recent results, saw them in the first seeds, only four years later, having risen over 100 places in the rankings. It's not like their results were sensational (they were good: a 3-0 win in Israel is no doubt a good result) but gaming the system; there's no reason we couldn't have tried the same and risen to second seeds at least.

But I guarantee we will continue to play extra friendlies against Oman and the likes, even after the Nations League starts, and drop even further down the rankings. It's quite unfortunate that the finances of the association, stadium and debt mean we have to play those games.



I thought The introduction of the nations league would pretty much put a stop to friendly???


Posted By: gspain
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by Charlton's Child Charlton's Child wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Wales were sixth seeds in the FIFA rankings as recently as the 2010 World Cup qualifiers. But because they stopped playing friendlies, they rocketed up the rankings. They did only finish second bottom of their 2014 qualifying group but the start they made to the euro 2016 group (top at the time of the 2018 qualifying draw) and the absence of friendlies, plus the extra weight for recent results, saw them in the first seeds, only four years later, having risen over 100 places in the rankings. It's not like their results were sensational (they were good: a 3-0 win in Israel is no doubt a good result) but gaming the system; there's no reason we couldn't have tried the same and risen to second seeds at least.

But I guarantee we will continue to play extra friendlies against Oman and the likes, even after the Nations League starts, and drop even further down the rankings. It's quite unfortunate that the finances of the association, stadium and debt mean we have to play those games.



I thought The introduction of the nations league would pretty much put a stop to friendly???

There will be 6 matchdays for the Nations League next year.  If we are in Group B (highly likely) we will be in a group of 3 so will only play on 4 of those matchdays.  This will leave 2 dates free for friendlies if a national association so desires.


Posted By: ConorMac77
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by Charlton's Child Charlton's Child wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Wales were sixth seeds in the FIFA rankings as recently as the 2010 World Cup qualifiers. But because they stopped playing friendlies, they rocketed up the rankings. They did only finish second bottom of their 2014 qualifying group but the start they made to the euro 2016 group (top at the time of the 2018 qualifying draw) and the absence of friendlies, plus the extra weight for recent results, saw them in the first seeds, only four years later, having risen over 100 places in the rankings. It's not like their results were sensational (they were good: a 3-0 win in Israel is no doubt a good result) but gaming the system; there's no reason we couldn't have tried the same and risen to second seeds at least.

But I guarantee we will continue to play extra friendlies against Oman and the likes, even after the Nations League starts, and drop even further down the rankings. It's quite unfortunate that the finances of the association, stadium and debt mean we have to play those games.



I thought The introduction of the nations league would pretty much put a stop to friendly???

Not completely. As I said above we'll still have a couple of spare dates for friendlies but there'll thankfully be far fewer of them then we currently have.

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The nation holds it's breath...YES, WE'RE THERE!!!


Posted By: nvidic
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 8:43pm
Sorry, should have clarified I didn't know uefa didn't count them, knew about Wales, Romania etc


Posted By: Charlton's Child
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Wales were sixth seeds in the FIFA rankings as recently as the 2010 World Cup qualifiers. But because they stopped playing friendlies, they rocketed up the rankings. They did only finish second bottom of their 2014 qualifying group but the start they made to the euro 2016 group (top at the time of the 2018 qualifying draw) and the absence of friendlies, plus the extra weight for recent results, saw them in the first seeds, only four years later, having risen over 100 places in the rankings. It's not like their results were sensational (they were good: a 3-0 win in Israel is no doubt a good result) but gaming the system; there's no reason we couldn't have tried the same and risen to second seeds at least.

But I guarantee we will continue to play extra friendlies against Oman and the likes, even after the Nations League starts, and drop even further down the rankings. It's quite unfortunate that the finances of the association, stadium and debt mean we have to play those games.



I thought The introduction of the nations league would pretty much put a stop to friendly???


Posted By: nvidic
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 9:45pm
Multiple explanations in this thread as to why that's not the case


Posted By: musicinmouth
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 9:57pm
Given that we're part-hosting Euro 2020, I think it's great to have an alternative way of qualifying as back up. It would be heartbreaking not to qualify for this one! 


Posted By: Dalymount79
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 10:00pm
re FIFA rankings - have FIFA confirmed they see this UEFA competition as earning the same ranking points as a World Cup or EURO qualifier?

I wouldn't be surprised if they recognise its weighting as something between a friendly - factor of 1 - and a full competitive qualifier (EURO or World Cup) - factor of 3.



Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 10:03pm
I think that may have been part of UEFA's thinking. It'll count as competitive, I reckon.

Sure, ffs, don't the 18 qualifiers the South Americans each play count, along with the Copa America. They also count the labyrinthine qualifiers for CONCACAF and Asia, where it's not unheard of for teams to play 20 games. They have to count the Nations League.


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Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 10:57pm
The league is a qualifying competition in its own right so FIFA will have to recognise the games as qualifiers. 

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Matt Cooper: What do you think is different this time?
John Delaney: Well we can understand our manager which is great. I tell you what, his English was always great when we were discussing the wages!


Posted By: Steve Amsterdam
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 9:21am
Anyone know when the actual draw for the groups is for this?

Rankings till October will be used to determine which teams are in which league, and we're most likely in B.

Matches in September, October and November 2018.

So I would assume the draw will be made somewhere at the end of this year. But haven't found anything online yet.

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Molly Malone's pub- The home of YBIG in Amsterdam!


Posted By: Newryrep
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 9:30am
Originally posted by Steve Amsterdam Steve Amsterdam wrote:

Anyone know when the actual draw for the groups is for this?

Rankings till October will be used to determine which teams are in which league, and we're most likely in B.

Matches in September, October and November 2018.

So I would assume the draw will be made somewhere at the end of this year. But haven't found anything online yet.
 
was thinking the same Steve. Seem to remember we knew we had 3 aways after the euros in France not long after/or before we qualified but cant recall when.
 
thought it might be start of Dec but that will be the WC finals draw so there wont be a euro draw then


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'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941


Posted By: irishmufc
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 9:34am
I have March 2018 in my head for some reason and think it has something to do with either the seedings being decided or maybe a draw for that Nations League later in the year. Read it before somewhere.

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That was soft rock cocaine enthusiasts Fleetwood Mac


Posted By: Newryrep
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 9:40am
Originally posted by Newryrep Newryrep wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Amsterdam Steve Amsterdam wrote:

Anyone know when the actual draw for the groups is for this?

Rankings till October will be used to determine which teams are in which league, and we're most likely in B.

Matches in September, October and November 2018.

So I would assume the draw will be made somewhere at the end of this year. But haven't found anything online yet.
 
was thinking the same Steve. Seem to remember we knew we had 3 aways after the euros in France not long after/or before we qualified but cant recall when.
 
thought it might be start of Dec but that will be the WC finals draw so there wont be a euro draw then
 
the relevent thread for Serbia (sept 16) was started Jul 15 


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'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941


Posted By: Steve Amsterdam
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 10:12am
March I think may be the time when the Euro2020 qualifying groups are drawn.

We'll be getting 2 holiday lotteries in the space of a few months

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Molly Malone's pub- The home of YBIG in Amsterdam!


Posted By: gspain
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 10:13am
Originally posted by Steve Amsterdam Steve Amsterdam wrote:

Anyone know when the actual draw for the groups is for this?

Rankings till October will be used to determine which teams are in which league, and we're most likely in B.

Matches in September, October and November 2018.

So I would assume the draw will be made somewhere at the end of this year. But haven't found anything online yet.

I don't know when the draw will take place.  However it is the rankings after the November playoffs that will be used.  Lots of info here.

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/news/newsid=2079553.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/news/newsid=2079553.html


Posted By: Steve Amsterdam
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 10:34am
Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Amsterdam Steve Amsterdam wrote:

Anyone know when the actual draw for the groups is for this?

Rankings till October will be used to determine which teams are in which league, and we're most likely in B.

Matches in September, October and November 2018.

So I would assume the draw will be made somewhere at the end of this year. But haven't found anything online yet.


I don't know when the draw will take place.  However it is the rankings after the November playoffs that will be used.  Lots of info here.

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/news/newsid=2079553.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/news/newsid=2079553.html


Yeah, but the playoffs will not be counted in the ranking.

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Molly Malone's pub- The home of YBIG in Amsterdam!


Posted By: colemanY2K
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 11:18am
I seem to remember seeing something about the draw being slated for December but as yet no date had been fixed. There's a uefa meeting where a few lose ends need to be tied up and they were going to do the draw shortly afterwards.

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"One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class." Orwell, 1942.


Posted By: Newryrep
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 11:35am
Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

I seem to remember seeing something about the draw being slated for December but as yet no date had been fixed. There's a uefa meeting where a few lose ends need to be tied up and they were going to do the draw shortly afterwards.
 
Cant see there being 2 major draws in December though it would make planning 2018 a lot easier


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'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941


Posted By: gspain
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by Steve Amsterdam Steve Amsterdam wrote:

Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Amsterdam Steve Amsterdam wrote:

Anyone know when the actual draw for the groups is for this?

Rankings till October will be used to determine which teams are in which league, and we're most likely in B.

Matches in September, October and November 2018.

So I would assume the draw will be made somewhere at the end of this year. But haven't found anything online yet.


I don't know when the draw will take place.  However it is the rankings after the November playoffs that will be used.  Lots of info here.

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/news/newsid=2079553.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/news/newsid=2079553.html


Yeah, but the playoffs will not be counted in the ranking.

According to the 6th bullet point on the link above to UEFA they will be counted. 

  • In the first edition of the competition, the participating sides will be classified according to the UEFA national team coefficient rankings (ranking as per 15 November 2017, i.e. conclusion of 2018 FIFA World Cup qualifiers)



Posted By: BippityBoop
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2017 at 3:14pm
Any idea which league Ireland will appear in after the final double World Cup qualifiers?

Is it safe to say we will drop from League B into League C with Serbia going the other way?


Posted By: ConorMac77
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 11:14am
Originally posted by BippityBoop BippityBoop wrote:

Any idea which league Ireland will appear in after the final double World Cup qualifiers?

Is it safe to say we will drop from League B into League C with Serbia going the other way?
Looks like we'll be still in League B, just about - according to FootballSeeings.com below (updated on Tuesday after that night's games):
 
http://www.footballseeding.com/national-ranking-uefa/ranking-2017/" rel="nofollow - http://www.footballseeding.com/national-ranking-uefa/ranking-2017/
 
 


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The nation holds it's breath...YES, WE'RE THERE!!!


Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 11:31am
Moldova win should see us cement that place you'd imagine


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You can motorboat but no whistling


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 11:37am
What's the motivation to be in B. You play less games. Is there any benefit to bring in B as opposed to being in C

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AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 11:48am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

What's the motivation to be in B. You play less games. Is there any benefit to bring in B as opposed to being in C


gspain gives a good reason a few posts above, and having considered it last night, I tend to agree with him.

I had found the whole League thing confusing, so read up on it last night and it all makes perfect sense (at last).
I suppose we couldnt take for granted winning a group in League C given our dearth of talent (which is being overlooked at the moment) and therefore being in B could be beneficial as we may find that the team who finish above us in our group actually qualify automatically anyway through the main qualifiers, thus giving us a a better chance of a second shot at it.

Serbia will be in League C. I wouldnt say we'd be guarenteed to finish ahead of them in a group.

The flipside to Gspain's point tho is that the playoffs are bound to be trickier in League B, tho in reality as he points out, most of the good sides in League B will have qualified automatically through the main process.



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Matt Cooper: What do you think is different this time?
John Delaney: Well we can understand our manager which is great. I tell you what, his English was always great when we were discussing the wages!


Posted By: BippityBoop
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 11:59am
Originally posted by rolo rolo wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

What's the motivation to be in B. You play less games. Is there any benefit to bring in B as opposed to being in C


gspain gives a good reason a few posts above, and having considered it last night, I tend to agree with him.

I had found the whole League thing confusing, so read up on it last night and it all makes perfect sense (at last).
I suppose we couldnt take for granted winning a group in League C given our dearth of talent (which is being overlooked at the moment) and therefore being in B could be beneficial as we may find that the team who finish above us in our group actually qualify automatically anyway through the main qualifiers, thus giving us a a better chance of a second shot at it.

Serbia will be in League C. I wouldnt say we'd be guarenteed to finish ahead of them in a group.

The flipside to Gspain's point tho is that the playoffs are bound to be trickier in League B, tho in reality as he points out, most of the good sides in League B will have qualified automatically through the main process.


Good point. The lower leagues will be fighting for the automatic spot to the euros than the higher leagues.

If anyone is confused by the format (I was when reading the UEFA website), the Wikipedia page is actually better and easier to understand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_UEFA_Nations_League - link


Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

What's the motivation to be in B. You play less games. Is there any benefit to bring in B as opposed to being in C
More glamorous games


Posted By: ConorMac77
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

What's the motivation to be in B. You play less games. Is there any benefit to bring in B as opposed to being in C
More glamorous games
But we'll only have 4 matches out of the 6 match days which will leave room for a couple of friendlies against even more glamorous teams like...OMAN!!! Big smileLOL


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The nation holds it's breath...YES, WE'RE THERE!!!


Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 1:01pm
Could you imagine the anarchy if we drew Wales and Northern Ireland


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You can motorboat but no whistling


Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by rolo rolo wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

What's the motivation to be in B. You play less games. Is there any benefit to bring in B as opposed to being in C


gspain gives a good reason a few posts above, and having considered it last night, I tend to agree with him.

I had found the whole League thing confusing, so read up on it last night and it all makes perfect sense (at last).
I suppose we couldnt take for granted winning a group in League C given our dearth of talent (which is being overlooked at the moment) and therefore being in B could be beneficial as we may find that the team who finish above us in our group actually qualify automatically anyway through the main qualifiers, thus giving us a a better chance of a second shot at it.

Serbia will be in League C. I wouldnt say we'd be guarenteed to finish ahead of them in a group.

The flipside to Gspain's point tho is that the playoffs are bound to be trickier in League B, tho in reality as he points out, most of the good sides in League B will have qualified automatically through the main process.



I'm not quite clear on how the playoffs will work though.

Say, for sake of argument, 10 of the 12 teams in League A qualify through the main qualifying, and 9 of the 12 teams in League B qualify, with 1 from League C.

Are the playoffs as follows:
League A: 11 & 12 + 10 & 11 from League B
League B: 12 + 2, 3 & 4 from League C
League C: 5, 6, 7 & 8 from League C

Or as follows:
League A: 11 & 12 + 6 & 7 from League C
League B: 10, 11 & 12 + 8 from League C
League C: 2, 3, 4 & 5 from League C

It's not really clear at the minute. Obviously there is a big difference. In the first example, the League B teams are, by and large, screwed over (10 & 11 having to play in the League A playoffs), likely having to overcome better teams; in the second example, it's much easier, only having to overcome teams at their own level.

It will happen too; I'd be shocked if 8 or fewer of the teams in League A don't qualify automatically. It's who joins those teams: the best teams in League B who haven't already qualified, or the teams beneath them who wouldn't otherwise be in the playoffs.

It's quite clear each set of playoffs will not contain teams from a higher league (obviously) but it's a question that doesn't have an answer at the minute.


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Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 2:25pm
it's certainly going to be a logistic nightmare.

 


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You can motorboat but no whistling


Posted By: gspain
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Originally posted by rolo rolo wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

What's the motivation to be in B. You play less games. Is there any benefit to bring in B as opposed to being in C


gspain gives a good reason a few posts above, and having considered it last night, I tend to agree with him.

I had found the whole League thing confusing, so read up on it last night and it all makes perfect sense (at last).
I suppose we couldnt take for granted winning a group in League C given our dearth of talent (which is being overlooked at the moment) and therefore being in B could be beneficial as we may find that the team who finish above us in our group actually qualify automatically anyway through the main qualifiers, thus giving us a a better chance of a second shot at it.

Serbia will be in League C. I wouldnt say we'd be guarenteed to finish ahead of them in a group.

The flipside to Gspain's point tho is that the playoffs are bound to be trickier in League B, tho in reality as he points out, most of the good sides in League B will have qualified automatically through the main process.



I'm not quite clear on how the playoffs will work though.

Say, for sake of argument, 10 of the 12 teams in League A qualify through the main qualifying, and 9 of the 12 teams in League B qualify, with 1 from League C.

Are the playoffs as follows:
League A: 11 & 12 + 10 & 11 from League B
League B: 12 + 2, 3 & 4 from League C
League C: 5, 6, 7 & 8 from League C

Or as follows:
League A: 11 & 12 + 6 & 7 from League C
League B: 10, 11 & 12 + 8 from League C
League C: 2, 3, 4 & 5 from League C

It's not really clear at the minute. Obviously there is a big difference. In the first example, the League B teams are, by and large, screwed over (10 & 11 having to play in the League A playoffs), likely having to overcome better teams; in the second example, it's much easier, only having to overcome teams at their own level.

It will happen too; I'd be shocked if 8 or fewer of the teams in League A don't qualify automatically. It's who joins those teams: the best teams in League B who haven't already qualified, or the teams beneath them who wouldn't otherwise be in the playoffs.

It's quite clear each set of playoffs will not contain teams from a higher league (obviously) but it's a question that doesn't have an answer at the minute.

I don't think it is clear which way they will go.  

I doubt that less than 16 teams from Leagues A & B will qualify for the Euros.  So this should give the other 8 a playoff.

However I assume if you win your mini-league in say League B and don't qualify then you will be in the League B playoffs. 

I'm guessing the weaker teams will be sent up to League A.  So possibly the best 4 in B playoff for a place and the remaining teams not qualified bumped up to A.

A win v Moldova (or Wales) should be enough to play in League B.  

There are of course some funny ones.  We would want to Romania to win v Denmark next month as it might get us a playoff for 2018.  However a Danish win would help keep us in League B.   Albania and Slovenia are unlikely to catch us.  The likes of the Czech Republic could easily get 2 wins next month 

Lithuania will probably move to League C if they beat Malta next month.  Their only realistic chance of going to Euro2020 is to stay in League D.  

 


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 3:23pm
The auld perverse incentives

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AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: irelandfan
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 3:40pm
If draw was made now we would be in a group with these potential teams 
Russia, Occupied Six Counties of Ulster, Slovakia, Sweden, Netherlands, Ukraine, Bosnia, Austria,Turkey,Denmark and Hungary. I'd like a trip to Bosnia and Slovakia meant to be great trips avoid the Scandinavian countries either Hungary or the Netherlands any excuse to visit Amsterdam.  



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I'm the gaffer whatever I say goes.


Posted By: kevincronin2000
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by irelandfan irelandfan wrote:

If draw was made now we would be in a group with these potential teams 
Russia, Occupied Six Counties of Ulster, Slovakia, Sweden, Netherlands, Ukraine, Bosnia, Austria,Turkey,Denmark and Hungary. I'd like a trip to Bosnia and Slovakia meant to be great trips avoid the Scandinavian countries either Hungary or the Netherlands any excuse to visit Amsterdam.  


Bratislava is a bit of a sh*t hole, wouldn't mind turkey, hungry and the Ukraine plus a trip to the dam speaks for itself.

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time is the stuff that life is made of, don't waste it.


Posted By: colemanY2K
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 3:54pm
Given our recent form I wouldn't be confident of too many victories in a group with those teams.

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"One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class." Orwell, 1942.


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by irelandfan irelandfan wrote:

If draw was made now we would be in a group with these potential teams 
Russia, Occupied Six Counties of Ulster, Slovakia, Sweden, Netherlands, Ukraine, Bosnia, Austria,Turkey,Denmark and Hungary. I'd like a trip to Bosnia and Slovakia meant to be great trips avoid the Scandinavian countries either Hungary or the Netherlands any excuse to visit Amsterdam.  



Out of that Ukraine and Hungary as never been to either.

Denmark for old times sake.

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AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: OnTheOneRoad
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by irelandfan irelandfan wrote:

If draw was made now we would be in a group with these potential teams 
Russia, Occupied Six Counties of Ulster, Slovakia, Sweden, Netherlands, Ukraine, Bosnia, Austria,Turkey,Denmark and Hungary. I'd like a trip to Bosnia and Slovakia meant to be great trips avoid the Scandinavian countries either Hungary or the Netherlands any excuse to visit Amsterdam.  



Out of that Ukraine and Hungary as never been to either.

Denmark for old times sake.

I'd absolutely love an Ireland away in Hungary Clap


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No thank you Turkish......I'm sweet enough


Posted By: colemanY2K
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 4:36pm
In terms of winnable matches then Netherlands and Hungary please.

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"One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class." Orwell, 1942.


Posted By: colemanY2K
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Originally posted by rolo rolo wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

What's the motivation to be in B. You play less games. Is there any benefit to bring in B as opposed to being in C


gspain gives a good reason a few posts above, and having considered it last night, I tend to agree with him.

I had found the whole League thing confusing, so read up on it last night and it all makes perfect sense (at last).
I suppose we couldnt take for granted winning a group in League C given our dearth of talent (which is being overlooked at the moment) and therefore being in B could be beneficial as we may find that the team who finish above us in our group actually qualify automatically anyway through the main qualifiers, thus giving us a a better chance of a second shot at it.

Serbia will be in League C. I wouldnt say we'd be guarenteed to finish ahead of them in a group.

The flipside to Gspain's point tho is that the playoffs are bound to be trickier in League B, tho in reality as he points out, most of the good sides in League B will have qualified automatically through the main process.



I'm not quite clear on how the playoffs will work though.

Say, for sake of argument, 10 of the 12 teams in League A qualify through the main qualifying, and 9 of the 12 teams in League B qualify, with 1 from League C.

Are the playoffs as follows:
League A: 11 & 12 + 10 & 11 from League B
League B: 12 + 2, 3 & 4 from League C
League C: 5, 6, 7 & 8 from League C

Or as follows:
League A: 11 & 12 + 6 & 7 from League C
League B: 10, 11 & 12 + 8 from League C
League C: 2, 3, 4 & 5 from League C

It's not really clear at the minute. Obviously there is a big difference. In the first example, the League B teams are, by and large, screwed over (10 & 11 having to play in the League A playoffs), likely having to overcome better teams; in the second example, it's much easier, only having to overcome teams at their own level.

It will happen too; I'd be shocked if 8 or fewer of the teams in League A don't qualify automatically. It's who joins those teams: the best teams in League B who haven't already qualified, or the teams beneath them who wouldn't otherwise be in the playoffs.

It's quite clear each set of playoffs will not contain teams from a higher league (obviously) but it's a question that doesn't have an answer at the minute.
http://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/mediaservices/newsid=2498908.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/mediaservices/newsid=2498908.html

We should find out the details of the tournament when the regs go for approval at uefa's next executive meeting which is to be held on September 20th.

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"One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class." Orwell, 1942.


Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 5:06pm
it's actually quite clear. 

Group winners get into playoffs, if any of them have already qualified, the next highest ranked team will get in. THey'll keep going down through that league to find the highest ranked 'unqualified' team and if necessary dip into the league below to find that team.


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Matt Cooper: What do you think is different this time?
John Delaney: Well we can understand our manager which is great. I tell you what, his English was always great when we were discussing the wages!


Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by rolo rolo wrote:

it's actually quite clear. 

Group winners get into playoffs, if any of them have already qualified, the next highest ranked team will get in. THey'll keep going down through that league to find the highest ranked 'unqualified' team and if necessary dip into the league below to find that team.


But that's where it gets complicated.

If, say, they have to dip into League B to get an unqualified team for the League A playoffs, do they choose the best team in League B who have not already qualified (i.e. the team that would otherwise be number 1 seed in the League B playoffs), or the best team in League B (or C, if needs be) who are not already in the League B (or C) playoffs (i.e. the fifth team in League B that have not qualified, with the top four League B teams contesting the League B playoff).

The *participants* will always be clear, it's how they are to be grouped that is not clear; that's literally been the entire point I've been making and it is categorically not "quite clear". In the example I gave earlier, the same 16 teams made the playoffs in each case. It's not that it makes a difference in terms of who makes it; it's how tough the games will be and whether, in effect, the more successful teams in League B who do not qualify automatically are penalised by having to play in the League A playoffs, or whether they are rewarded by getting the best seeding for the League B playoffs. That's not hypothetical; it has a real impact on qualification chances.

All we know at the minute is the following:
"•  If any winners are already qualified through the European Qualifiers, then their play-off position will be allocated to the next best-ranked team of the league in question, taking into account the global ranking within the league, and then if necessary to the following league in decreasing order taking into consideration the global ranking of the relevant league."

That doesn't answer the question I have. It's quite probable that at least 9 of the 12 teams in League A will qualify automatically, so it's not a hypothetical question either.


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Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 5:35pm
Incidentally, I came across this:

"In addition, for the 2022 World Cup, the same principles will apply to both the UEFA Nations League and the European Qualifiers, but will be adapted to the number of slots available and final tournament dates."

That seems to mean that for the 13 places in the 2022 World Cup, 9 are going to go to 9 group winners and then the final 4 to the Nations League playoff winners, so a European qualifying place for the World Cup is going to go to a League D team. What the absolute f**k!! The Qatar World Cup, featuring Azerbaijan as a European representative.


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Posted By: Catherine Banneto
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by irelandfan irelandfan wrote:

If draw was made now we would be in a group with these potential teams 
Russia, Occupied Six Counties of Ulster, Slovakia, Sweden, Netherlands, Ukraine, Bosnia, Austria,Turkey,Denmark and Hungary. I'd like a trip to Bosnia and Slovakia meant to be great trips avoid the Scandinavian countries either Hungary or the Netherlands any excuse to visit Amsterdam.  



Out of that Ukraine and Hungary as never been to either.

Denmark for old times sake.

I'd absolutely love an Ireland away in Hungary Clap

Amen to that, Kyiv would be nice too, Europes most underrated city imo.


Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Originally posted by rolo rolo wrote:

it's actually quite clear. 

Group winners get into playoffs, if any of them have already qualified, the next highest ranked team will get in. THey'll keep going down through that league to find the highest ranked 'unqualified' team and if necessary dip into the league below to find that team.


But that's where it gets complicated.

If, say, they have to dip into League B to get an unqualified team for the League A playoffs, do they choose the best team in League B who have not already qualified (i.e. the team that would otherwise be number 1 seed in the League B playoffs), or the best team in League B (or C, if needs be) who are not already in the League B (or C) playoffs (i.e. the fifth team in League B that have not qualified, with the top four League B teams contesting the League B playoff).

The *participants* will always be clear, it's how they are to be grouped that is not clear; that's literally been the entire point I've been making and it is categorically not "quite clear". In the example I gave earlier, the same 16 teams made the playoffs in each case. It's not that it makes a difference in terms of who makes it; it's how tough the games will be and whether, in effect, the more successful teams in League B who do not qualify automatically are penalised by having to play in the League A playoffs, or whether they are rewarded by getting the best seeding for the League B playoffs. That's not hypothetical; it has a real impact on qualification chances.

All we know at the minute is the following:
"•  If any winners are already qualified through the European Qualifiers, then their play-off position will be allocated to the next best-ranked team of the league in question, taking into account the global ranking within the league, and then if necessary to the following league in decreasing order taking into consideration the global ranking of the relevant league."

That doesn't answer the question I have. It's quite probable that at least 9 of the 12 teams in League A will qualify automatically, so it's not a hypothetical question either.

Indeed that is not clear.

If common sense prevails, the League A playoff slots will be filled by the highest available ranked team in B who aren't in the playoffs. The reward for winning a Group in B or being the highest available next team in B to fill the playoffs in that League should be a place in those playoffs (B), with the teams below you who missed out getting bumped into League A. 


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Matt Cooper: What do you think is different this time?
John Delaney: Well we can understand our manager which is great. I tell you what, his English was always great when we were discussing the wages!


Posted By: gspain
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 8:17pm
Rolo,  I think it will go the way you suggest but not clear yet and could be either way.  

Remember there could well be just one team in League A that misses out or even none.  

So one League A team could end up with 3 weaker sides from B/C with the 4 strongest B sides playing for one place.  This scenario leaves 2 of the weaker sides meeting in a semi final with the winner presumably playing the league A side.  


Posted By: rolo
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2017 at 8:39pm
I still think that's fair for all concerned. If the League A team is France, then I'm sure the view of the 4 strong League B teams towards the weaker ones having a shot at France will be "have at it".

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Matt Cooper: What do you think is different this time?
John Delaney: Well we can understand our manager which is great. I tell you what, his English was always great when we were discussing the wages!



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