Maximum attendance for the last round of games was 823.

12 clubs fined today for not fielding 5 first team players as required in the rules. The trophy was designed for League 1 and 2 teams but then they decided to invite Championship and Premier League teams - Because they thought adding Premier League starters would help development for lower league clubs 

The only top-flight team left in the tournament is Swansea City, a Welsh team. Tournament's been an utter disaster 

Farce.

"Because the EFL is seen as a first-team competition" 

The hint's in the bloody name! EFL is not Premier League so the rule shouldn't count towards them 

Average League attendance - 9000

Average Checkatrade attendance - 600

Fans brought to Wembley today - 45,000

I suppose it served it's purpose as a Wembley day out for the lower league fans, boycotting it would of been the best option to show how much a farce the tournament has been!

Peterborough drawn with Cambridge and Northampton

Notts County with Mansfield 

Exeter with Plymouth

Colchester with Southend

Crewe with Port Vale

Cheltenham with Forest Green Rovers

What are the odds to have so many derbies in the first round without fixing the draw to try grab interest

Guaranteed. It is working too, a lot of boycotting fans here are suddenly interested in playing Peterborough in a 'competitive' fixture for the first time in 16 years. It is splitting fans and I can see it all getting very heated. Talk of fans standing outside the ground persuading people not to go in, which is sure to end well!

The day this competition becomes a hipster thing is the day football is officially dead.

Also worth noting that Bradford City, who have an average attendance of over 20k this season, recorded their lowest ever attendance tonight of 931 for their game against Rotherham.

Credit to Accrington too, who substituted star man Billy Kee after four minutes tonight to avoid a ridiculous fine. Treating the competition with the contempt it deserves.

I don't mind the intent of the competition, to give lower league clubs a day out at Wembley, but the execution deserves the attendances it's getting.

 Grimsby taking it seriously anyway. They decided to take the fine too it seems as they just made the eleven changes.

http://twitter.com/officialgtfc/status/928367420670136323" rel="nofollow - http://twitter.com/officialgtfc/status/928367420670136323

And still they had to wait until penalties to see their team win a game 

Any team who takes the fine gets a  from me.

Grimsby is nearly 3 hours away from Sunderland, so not exactly on ones doorstep. 

Also, everyone knows its a sham, so why the hell would people travel?

I was amazed three travelled! I assume that they are either Sunderland fans who live in Grimsby or are related to some young lad who was playing for Sunderland.

To be fair if I had actually known I would of went, Cleethorpes is a a cracking night out afterwards, great excuse to go to a Checkatrade match 

AFAIK there are a couple of Sunderland fans based in Hull, just going by RTG so it was probably them! 

Granted it's live football and all but ffs a lot can be said for sitting on the high stool nestled in the corner with a few pints in front of you instead of watching that sh*te. 

Bollocks! Just go to Cleethorpes for the piss-up and f**k the match, the future of the EFL needs this competition to fail.

 Much better idea. I've definitely missed a trick tonight.

The Championship has been kind to an extent for the die-hard away day brigade, a lot of Northern clubs in the Division which has softened the blow of not winning after not winning but I get your point.

You're one of the good ones  

The players didn't even go over at the end either! 

In other words, attendances have been below expectations

For a competition which has averaged 800 fans there was over 9000 (No internet meme needed) fans at Lincoln tonight. Followed by a pitch invasion when they beat the Chelsea U23's on penalties 

Actually wanted Chelsea reserves to win it to highlight how much of a sham an EPL team going to Wembley would of made the tournament look like.

I hope none of them had a nice evening.

 

 

 

 

Oddly enough Sunderland and Newcastle U21's were banned from being drawn in the same group as if we're Russia and Ukraine.

You seem to be interested enough in it without the derby games

You have to be the most easily triggered poster on here. 

You're worse than Trump ffs. 

I would hazard a guess at around three hours.

Very generous 

Triggered? 

Least f**ks given perhaps, especially to get offended on an Internet forum 

Port Vale's odds (17/10) at home to their biggest rival Stoke's U21 team last night stood out like a sore thumb

Threw in West Ham and Bournemouth for a nice treble

 

Of course you would see the negative side of it and it gives you another reason to whinge or moan on here anyway, which I'm sure you're delighted about.

I'd be more than happy if Sunderland got to the final, 30,000+ fans would make the trip and a day out in Wembley made in large by season ticket holders and regular match day goers. Whether that's in this competition or not is irrelevant because we see it every year with the League Cup (Premiership club attendances wise)

It's worked really well in Spain for a number of years, if anything having colt clubs in the Segunda & Segunda Divisions A, B, C & D has helped give young players a platform to play proper competitive football because the current under 23/reserve team system in England is anything but. 

Talking about being over dramatic ffs 

 

Spain has a very different football culture. A further weakening of the league system will destroy clubs and remove one of the few strong local communities in many provincial towns and cities so Abu Dhabi and their ilk can stockpile even more players.

If it were up to me I wouldn't change the system right now, as I actually love the English league pyramid so we're in agreement there.

From speaking to people, reading about it, watching it on TV etc the current under 23/reserve system in England simply isn't working and it's the first teams managers of these respective clubs that are the most vocal.

It's simply not a competitive enough environment and now FIFA want to limit the number of players that can be loaned out per club aswell! 

 

The changing of the loan laws is potentially the best thing to happen to football in years too!

Morning all.

On this Checkatrade business, I agree totally that the Spanish model (B teams etc) does not transfer to the English game, for a number of reasons. 

But I don't agree that letting EPL 'B' teams play in the Checkatrade is a "gateway" to being allowed to join the 2nd/3rd/4th tiers of League football - rather the opposite in fact, in that they're only exploring the Checkatrade because they CAN'T get into the FL.

Personally I don't see the harm in trying it out with the Checkatrade for a period - it will either prove beneficial to all concerned or it won't.

Meanwhile, the real solution to this problem of bloated EPL squads actually lies with the players (and their Agents). That is, if after 3 or 4 years receiving an excellent schooling in an EPL Academy, a young 19 or 20 y.o. prospect finds he's getting blocked from the 1st team, and he's not benefitting from loans, then he needs simply to move permanently to a club playing at a decent standard elsewhere. This could be in the English Championship, or it could be abroad at a club where they're prepared to give youngsters a chance (eg Jadon Sancho at Dortmund).

So that if they genuinely are good enough to make it at the very top, after another 3 or 4 years further development in adult football, then they'll get their transfer to Man City or Chelsea etc at the age of 24 or 25 with every hope of being a regular.

Alternatively, they could just sit where they are, on huge money and only occasional games, like Ruben Loftus-Cheek:

Correct. If you looked at the Checkatrade rules, Non U-21 teams have to field 7 of your regular starters in the lineup which is all a massive contradiction with them saying its a competition for developmental players, for the U21 teams perhaps but even then they have a limit of being able to field 3 players over 21.

Last year was unforgivable when they rigged the group stages so that they all had Derby matches in order to boost attendances, thankfully it didn’t work. 

But in the end, the 72 EFL clubs aren't going to vote 10(?) 15(?) 20(?) of their own out of the League entirely to make way for EPL 'B' teams.

And if they were prepared to countenance the alternative of extending the EFL beyond 72 teams (i.e. adding a League 3), they'd surely want to do so from non-League clubs, the best of whom are already f-t, with many also being former EFL clubs in the recent past anyhow (eg Orient). 

pre Madonna wrote: The more successful the Checkatrade is in its current format, the stronger the argument for Arsenal reserves in the Conference.

Except it's not being "more successful".

Don't forget, it wasn't successful before the EPL 'B' teams were admitted (barring the 23/1 chance of getting to a Wembley final).

Indeed, my guess is that the competition was only introduced (in 1983) because the teams wanted to fill midweek dates with something, especially since the whole system of Reserve Team football had had its day anyhow.

The trophy was slightly more successful in its old format, the reason it hasn't had any success at all in this format is due to the 'B team boycott' and the fact people have been against it. As I said, the success of this tournament will legitimise reserve sides in the league. The fact it hasn't been a success, outside of the final, has been why there hasn't been any more debate around that happening. 

You are most likely correct on why the trophy was introduced, but that has little or no baring on why Southampton reserves are now competing in it.

That is, the fee would have to be a helluva sight bigger to compensate for the risk of losing their place in the EFL entirely. I mean, it took nearly a century before they even agreed to promotion and relegation from the Conference, and then only for two teams. (The former system of re-electing the bottom teams was essentially an "old boys" network, whereby clubs like eg Rochdale voted to re-elect Hartlepool, on the basis that they might need Hartlepool's vote to save themselves the next season).

pre Madonna wrote: The trophy was slightly more successful in its old format, the reason it hasn't had any success at all in this format is due to the 'B team boycott' and the fact people have been against it.

Sorry, I'd have said that the trophy was already dying on its arse, with the present format merely hastening its demise. 

pre Madonna wrote: As I said, the success of this tournament will legitimise reserve sides in the league. The fact it hasn't been a success, outside of the final, has been why there hasn't been any more debate around that happening.

Do you think that the recent experience of the Checkatrade is more likely to persuade the 72 FL owners to accept EPL 'B' teams, or less? (I don't expect a reply when the answer is so obvious, btw)

pre Madonna wrote: You are most likely correct on why the trophy was introduced, but that has little or no baring on why Southampton reserves are now competing in it.

The only reason why the likes of Saint's Reserves applied to be in it is because the EPL clubs are scratching around for solutions to a problem.

And the only reason why the FL permitted it is because they needed to do something to keep the competition on life-support, and no-one could come up with anything else.

Now obviously EPL clubs would love to get their 'B' teams in the FL proper, but the FL owners have no need to bolster the League in this way, seeing as it's doing reasonably OK as it is, and 'B' teams could only harm their own cause.

Indeed if there is an appetite for change amongst the FL owners, it comes from the 16 or 18 in the Championship who are threatening to break away entirely, under the guise of a "Premier League 2" (or somesuch).

But even there, everyone knows that the EPL would never buy it (why should they?), so it's more just a ruse to screw a greater share of FL TV money for themselves, at the expense of the 50-odd "smaller" teams.

100%. The same as this trophy and what it may lead too. It is in the interests of the people governing the game in England to look after the interests of the game in England. Unfortunately, since Alan Sugar held a deciding vote a quarter of a century ago, they have lost all sight of this.

Mine is that while that might have been the hope of the EPL teams (and that dipstick Shaun Harvey), there was no evidence whatever that the FL owners wanted it, they being the ones who would ultimately need to be persuaded.

And the subsequent debacle of paltry attendances, general apathy and outright fan hostility to their inclusion in the Checkatrade has surely now killed those hopes off entirely, esp since the U-21 teams are faring so badly*.

Thing is, however, if/when it is decided to discontinue the 'B' team experiment, the FL will be stuck with a tournament which is increasingly moribund, with no obvious means of reviving it.

* - Only 7 of the 18 even got out of the group stages and of those, only three got through the next knockout round (two of them on penalties), with Spurs still to play:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_EFL_Trophy" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_EFL_Trophy

My viewpoint is, and I believe there is enough historical evidence, including in this competition, to suggest that if enough money is put forward they would go along with reserve teams in the league. 

It is merely an opinion, but I certainly would not trust them. I would trust those who run the game even less.

Nobody will care what they do with tournament now, whatever little bit of affection that was there for it has disappeared. The plug should be pulled.

I agree, as it happens, that results, as well as the boycott, has meant that reserve teams in the league have taken a step backwards. The intentions are still there though.

People are trying to keep the boycott going but Sunderland keep selling out their away allocations + more

I'm completely sat on the fence. I want the competition to fail miserably but our support isn't helping the case.

pre Madonna wrote: My viewpoint is, and I believe there is circumstantial evidence based on past decisions by the clubs, including in this competition, to suggest that if enough money is put forward they would go along with reserve teams in the league.

The key word being "if".

Do you know how much money is being put in by the EPL and Championship clubs?

It cannot be much, seeing as how the prize money (£3m total) and broadcasting money is pretty paltry:

https://www.efl.com/clubs-and-competitions/checkatrade-trophy/about-checkatrade/rules--regulations/" rel="nofollow - https://www.efl.com/clubs-and-competitions/checkatrade-trophy/about-checkatrade/rules--regulations/

When you count the cost of staging games, usually in front of dreadful attendances, some of the clubs knocked out in the group stage will probably have lost money.

And that's only for a tinpot trophy which was dying anyhow. 

How much more would it take to persuade FL owners to put their own "bread and butter" (League membership) at risk? 

On top of which, when they couldn't even persuade the two biggest teams in the country, Man U and Liverpool, to even enter a team, that indicates to me that this trophy poses no actual threat to the traditional structure of League football in England.

pre Madonna wrote: It is merely an opinion, but I certainly would not trust them. I would trust those who run the game even less.

What they would like, and what they are able to achieve are two separate things.

And such has been the failure of this experiment that their ability to achieve it must be further out of their reach than ever.

The failure of the experiment has been largely down to fans staying away and the results. Had both been different, it may have been a different argument.

I could be confusing this with something completely different International/LOI etc etc. 

I could also be imagining things 

They are allowed to win it, they just can't take up the Europa League place.

Swansea and Cardiff going the furthest out of the U21's in the first season and Shrewsbury going runners up last season.

FA can't change the outcomes but based on that you can tell how much of a horrifying disaster the competition has been 

You do know that Shrewsbury is in England?

Always thought it was North Wales since it's so close to Wrexham? 

It is definitely in England though. Joe 'Wowsers' Hart is from there, as is Charles Darwin, which disproved his own theory...

Ah right. I was thinking it was something like that.

Awful draw for everyone involved - Competition attendances averages will skyrocket, Sunderland face the prospect of losing to their reserve side, Newcastle face the prospect of losing to League 1 rivals