' we'll see where they are when it implodes?'
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Topic: ' we'll see where they are when it implodes?'
Posted By: athlonecelt
Subject: ' we'll see where they are when it implodes?'
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2015 at 9:58pm
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when the premiership implodes ?.... I've often heard this warning from non premier league supporters. What does this mean ? And what economic policy are they using. So one day the money will be all gone ??? And the stadiums won't be filled ???? Unless a new sport grows more popular what are they expecting to happen ? Granted there's going to be a Leeds utd situation here and there but to a whole league ??? |
Replies:
Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 9:19am
| Often wondered that myself |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 10:32am
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I suppose the biggest danger is that the huge sums Sky/BT are paying
will push the cost for the ordinary Joe Soap to a level where large
numbers of people will say fcuk that its just too much and will stop
subscribing. Without the huge telly money the league will be fcuked. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 10:40am
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That and the likely possibility of empty stadia. Many midtable teams are finding it harder and harder to sell tickets, I mean what really is the point for Newcastle etc. Add to this that the age of the average epl fan has nearly doubled since it's existence, well you can see the logic. At the moment it sems safe as it has franchised itself to all the major markets. As much as I hate Scudamore, he does his job well but he might not be there forever either. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: Zinedine Kilbane 110
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 10:42am
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There has always been talk of the "European league" been formed. The champ league suits the big clubs for from the top tier leagues for NOW as they have steady income year on year from their respective leagues and get massive top ups from Europe. But the traditionally big clubs from smaller leagues are slowly dying.... Celtic, PSV, Ajax, Benfica, Porto, Steaua Bucurest etc I know Porto won the champ league 10 years ago but none of these clubs will ever win it again unless something drastic happens. The rich clubs are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Where does it all end..... 50 Super clubs in a European league all owned by wealthy oil tycoons?? Will the next generation want to see Man utd v Hull or would they only bother watch Man utd V Barca... I would think its the latter. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary McKay
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 10:46am
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Bosman was a kunt. ------------- "Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 10:52am
Absolutely, a complete kunt rivaled only by the suffragettes and the anti slavery brigade. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Gary McKay wrote:Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 11:03am
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A european league was talked about 15 or 20 years ago i would say its even further away today not going to happen IMO
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 11:24am
http://m.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-City-Mark-Hughes-applauds-ticket/story-26091489-detail/story.html" rel="nofollow - Stoke keeping tickets prices down. Others will follow. No need to rip fans off with so much loot pouring in from TV. Sky et al, will want to see full grounds and they'll start picking and choosing the games that are more likely to be sell outs rather than half empty stadia.
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Posted By: Gary McKay
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 11:32am
Complete bastards. ------------- "Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 11:51am
It is great to see from Stoke but pricing is not the only issue. There is a generation of young men who have not got into the habit of going to football. It is very hard to replace that, no matter how affordable the tickets ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 11:57am
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Also a quick google search shows the average weekly wage in the uk is 450 pounds and is 360 in Stoke. The average ticket to watch Liverpool, the best at the time in 89-90 was about a fiver. The average weekly wage across the UK was 250. you see where I am going ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: corkery
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 11:58am
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Italian stadiums are always empty these days. They used to be packed. ------------- 'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick |
Posted By: dunloybhoy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 12:28pm
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the leagues piss poor. lets be honest, outside of the top 5/6 teams would you actually pay to watch stoke v villa or WBA v Newcastle unless you were a fan of the teams. i went to everton v villa a few seasons back (fan of neither team) expecting this great game. my first EPL game. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz bored senseless through it. I actally laughed at my mate who turned to me and said "jesus this is as bad as that celtic v motherwell game you took me to!" Look the german league is producing better players and doing it for cheaper. whereas the premier league is producing poorer players (english) and spending millions. Falco for example is here for the $, nothing more. he will play crap (as hes doing) and make a fortune and leave. Thats all the EPL is. ------------- put em under pressure! |
Posted By: Landon Donovan
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 12:40pm
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Hopefully the Qatar fiasco will lead to a break off from the big clubs and a European Super League. It is just silly at this stage that all of the talent is still so diluted. Due to their being so many leagues, cups and Arsenal turning 4th place into a cup itself, success has been devalued. |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 12:43pm
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The best thing that could happen, it will eventually, is that Nike play Adidas every week. ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: Zinedine Kilbane 110
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 1:08pm
I can see a push for less league games and more European games in the future. The top Leagues will prob drop to 16-18 teams and more European matches. But imagine if there was a Top 20 European Super league ..... some games each week! Week 1 Man u v Barca Real v Inter Milan Al Madrid v Liverpool Porto v Bayern Mun Chelsea v AC Milan Man City v Benfica Lyon v Juve Bor Dortmd v Anderlecht Galatasaray v Roma Ajax v Celtic ------------- |
Posted By: sid waddell
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 1:25pm
There were more European matches between 1999 and 2003 when there was a second group stage. Teams had to play 17 matches rather than 13 to win the Champions League. It was sh*t and people got bored of it. A European league like that above would be boring. Variety is essential in sport and a European league would kill that completely, not that it's great at the moment, because it isn't, but a European league would make it worse. The Europa League is a far more interesting competition than the Champions League this year in my view because there's a bit of variety in it. The Champions League has been muck over the last few years, dull and predictable, largely dull and predictable even with Dortmund and Atletico Madrid reaching the final. ------------- Edited by Trigboy 10 at 10:03pm |
Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 1:29pm
As long as they contiune to attract the locals they'll be grand. I work here with a Brighton fan and a Norwich fan, I'm never gonna watch those games, but to the guys who grew up watching them they'll never leave.
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Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 1:32pm
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Posted By: rossieman
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 1:38pm
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I expect there to be huge problems in the next 20 years.A huge amount of young people haven't grown up with regularly going games due to cost .If the older fans aren't replaced teams/leagues will suffer. I also don't think there will ever be as big a TV deal as was just signed.IPTV/streaming is going to have a huge negative effect on football finance's. |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 1:38pm
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Yeah, the current structure works better than a superleague ever would. I know the NFL is massive in the States but there are a still lot of dead rubber games near the end of the season. A system with the team with most points winning would only make that worse. A superleague would only work if there were playoffs. A league with between 20 and 32 teams (possibly with some geographic separation, like the NFL) and then playoffs at the end of the year. It would result in more frequent matchups between Real and Barca, Bayern and Dortmund, United and Arsenal, Juve and Milan, etc etc, but with playoffs at seasons end to keep things interesting. ------------- 
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Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 1:39pm
Could say the same with all top leagues The German league is an uncompetitive procession with Bayern having the monopoly of all the best players in it. I could laugh at these people who always say the EPL is sh*t and German league is a lot better, yet they never miss a MOTD or Super Sunday and haven't watched a Bundesliga game in their lives. (I'm not getting at you here by the way) |
Posted By: sid waddell
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 1:41pm
England has a wonderful and unique system in that there has always been a culture of regularly supporting local teams right down to non-league. Other countries don't have that and fill lower divisions with pointless reserve teams. That depth of interest down the levels is why England has the best football culture in the world. The Football League Show on Saturday nights is always good to watch. Money is beginning to erode things though, and in the Premier League more than in lower divisions. Newcastle were mentioned earlier and it's that constant mid-table pointlessness that must really be the most depressing thing for a football supporter. Newcastle will probably still be bobbing around pointlessly in mid-table in 20 or 40 years' time. ------------- Edited by Trigboy 10 at 10:03pm |
Posted By: sid waddell
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 1:47pm
US sports have a different culture where leagues are closed shops based on franchising. Football is based on a pyramid system where, in theory anyway, Accrington Stanley can progress up the divisions and win the league or the European Cup. You can't impose that US-style system on football and expect it to meet with anything other than complete opposition, and rightly so. ------------- Edited by Trigboy 10 at 10:03pm |
Posted By: Landon Donovan
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 1:49pm
I would like to a 32 team Super League with a play-off system. Pretty much all sports have moved to a Play-off/Grand Final System. Football is still stuck in the round robin format that was devised nealy 150 years ago and hasnt change. I would like to see us move more towards the Grand Final system. Seeing football leagues being decided in slow motion is a bit tedious. |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 2:11pm
I know that. I'm just saying that if a Superleague format comes in, it would have to incorporate a playoff system. It couldn't just run on a round robin with nothing else added. The question of whether or not a superleague could work with relegation is another matter entirely. It's hard to think it could work or that the clubs would be interested in setting up a league like that. I mean, if you had a 32 team league, you'd have something like 6 British clubs (5 English and 1 Scottish), 4 Spanish, 3 French, 2 Portuguese, 5 Italians, 2 Dutch, 4 Germans, 2 Turkish, then maybe one each from Greece, Switzerland, Belgium and Russia to spread the interest. Having one team from every country relegated each year would be unacceptable to the clubs setting it up, or even having the bottom few clubs relegated, regardless of where they come from, and it would be clubs not UEFA setting it up. The lack of certainty would kill clubs. If you think the drop off from the Premier League to the Championship is steep in terms of TV money, imagine what this would be like. Just look at the countries where tv rights are sold individually. Barca and Real take in something like 80% of Spanish tv money. They go and the rest are goners. And that's only domestic money. The money currently spent on Champions League rights would be added to this too. What is currently Champions League money plus the majority of domestic money would go to the Superleague. The remaining domestic leagues would suffer massively. I cannot see that clubs setting up a superleague would be prepared to take the risk of relegation and the drop in income that would entail. The big clubs at the minute make most money domestically and they are happy with that. A superleague with relegation would put that all at risk. It would probably have to be a franchise system without relegation, from the point of view of tv money distribution. That is true. That would hard to justify to fans as well, I accept that. All my initial point concerned was that you'd need playoffs to keep it interesting. I don't think you could have relegation. There are many reasons fans wouldn't be interested in a Superleague and the fact there couldn't be relegation (because the founder clubs would not allow it) is just one of them. Plus, I imagine players' unions would be opposed. You'd go from a system at the minute where there are 20 clubs in England with players all making pretty good money. The same is true to a lesser extent in the rest of Europe (bottom level Serie A and La Liga players make a fair bit less). Tv money is to thank for that. If you remove sizeable Tv money from all but the Superleague (which is what would happen) then professional players outside the Superleague would make a hell of a lot less money. It would be the lucky few who make big bucks. Even the hit Championship level players would take would be big because there would be no parachute payments, no solidarity payments, no owners spending big in the hope of reaching the promised land. It would lead to a small cohort of very elite players making the real money while the likes of Jon Walters, Lee Catermole and Phil Jagielka will be making a hell of a lot less than they are at the minute. The PFA would not be likely to go for that. -------------
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Posted By: Zinedine Kilbane 110
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 3:06pm
yeah I agree, this format didn't work but I do think the money men will come back and try something else. A mini-league on top of a mini-league is no good. ------------- |
Posted By: d13dave
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 3:19pm
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Since they started dragging the arse out of the Champions league it has technically become a European Super league anyway with the UEFA cup acting as a championship. Amazed that teams who are regularly in the group stages get great away followings from the off. Surely the novelty of an away trip to Europe for Arsenal fans must be waning especially in the knowledge that they will make a pigs ear of the quarter finals and exit in the same way. Domestic leagues will never be dissolved. They have their flaws and are of differing quality but they are the bread and butter for fans all over Europe and long may it continue. The whole inter country rivalry with other clubs/towns and cities is what make them interesting. Would be nice for the armchair fan or fans who do not really support a team. |
Posted By: d13dave
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 3:26pm
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i do think the premiership is suffering from a lack of characters at the moment. No real rivalry these days on the pitch. Man Utd and Arsenal players all pally with each other before matches in the tunnel. Keano, Vieira and Neville would not stand for it. Only set of players who despise each other i think is Chelsea v Liverpool. Hence good games with lots of needle but never dull Not supporting a premiership team i only rarely watch it these days. Tune in for the top 6 clashes but they really flatter to deceive at times particularly early in the season when their is relatively little at stake and they can be cagey affairs. The battle for 4th does my head in. Not as if they ever do anything in the Champions league. Love the latter stages of the Champions league though |
Posted By: sid waddell
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 3:48pm
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I hate this system they've had for the Champions League last 16 for the last few years where the matches are spread out over different weeks. 3 weeks between legs which kills momentum and interest and you get sh*t matches on a lot of the nights being covered live eg Schalke v Real Madrid last week. Same with the international qualifiers being spread out over a week. Boring. ------------- Edited by Trigboy 10 at 10:03pm |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 3:53pm
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Ah the Internationals works a bit. It would work a hell of a lot better if the matches in each group were spread out but they can't do that because of the need to play return legs. I mean, we have more interest in this country in how Poland and Germany get on than, say, the French do, because they are in our group. On the breaks with only one game, they should spread the games in each group out. -------------
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Posted By: d13dave
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 4:05pm
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i like the pairs of international games but should be Friday night followed by Wednesday night. Still cannot believe the Poland game is on a Sunday. What would Christ think |
Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 4:20pm
who are Israel playing? ------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands. |
Posted By: dunloybhoy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 4:41pm
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tbh i used to follow english football even tho i didnt support anyone but over this past number of years i dont watch it at all. I honestly lost interest in it. Each year its the same thing. Man City, chelsea, arsenal, man u all are favs to win it. Spurs are talked about each time as 'they need to do somehting', liverpool and their glory years. The rest just make up numbers. I know i follow scottish football and its just poor compared to the championship in england but when teams like stoke, west brom etc have more money than my own team with stadiums of only 26k and they dont fill it every week it makes me depressed. With the amount of money these teams have they should all be far better than they are. Better grounds and facilities but they dont. The mid table teams sole purpose is to stay in the EPL and exist with a one off cup run. Its, just pointless imo. Again dont get me wrong celtic win the league, again, its boring but at least we try to do something in europe. we find decent players, improve them and sell at a profit whilst being sucessfull and punching above our weight in Europe. All the while we maintain a wages structure and make profit. The EPL was a good product untill the likes of roman abramovich at Chelsea and Sheikh Mansour at Man city riuned it and made it untouchable for the smaller clubs. ------------- put em under pressure! |
Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 4:57pm
EPL each year is the same thing? Man City are only recent interlopers. I do agree that it's become a bit staid but you've only got to look at the past few seasons to see Man U failing that it's not written in stone. The duopoly of the Scottish league is not? Holy f**k, it's gotten worse since the Rangers imploded. Of course the Celts try and do something in Europe as they sure as f**k need something to aim for as they only have to turn up to win their own league or as was the case - better Rangers.
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Posted By: dunloybhoy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 5:09pm
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i totally agree with you, the scottish league is dire but theres no money in it at all. If it wasnt for celtic cutting back and making money on players like wanyama, hooper, forster, wilson we wouldn be struggling. Add to that the CL cash we made it has kept the club well afloat and in profit. All of that without Rangers who went bust in 2012. The man citys and chelseas wouldnt have won the league witout the $$$, esp man city. Man U have been on a downward slope for 2 seasons, once fergie went that spirit and battling they had went with him and the real team they had was exposed. I would love to see Southampton get a CL spot over the likes of Arsenal, spurs, Lpool and Man U ------------- put em under pressure! |