How Do We Keep Up With Our International Rivals?
Printed From: You Boys in Green
Category: International
Forum Name: Republic Of Ireland
Forum Description: All ROI International Team forums
URL: https://forum.ybig.ie/forum_posts.asp?TID=49075
Printed Date: 18 May 2024 at 3:12am
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Topic: How Do We Keep Up With Our International Rivals?
Posted By: Xpro
Subject: How Do We Keep Up With Our International Rivals?
Date Posted: 28 May 2014 at 12:14am
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Following the recent Rovers-Liverpool friendly, Brendan Rodgers was asked about some promising Irish youngster at Anfield. The kid is 16 and clearly an emerging talent, but Rodgers thought he had a lot of catching up to do on the other young players at the club`s academy. There are kids of 8 or 9 joining academies, said Rodgers, and by 16 they`re already tactically and technically aware, while being physically and mentally developed for the game. Scary stuff, and this kind of development is going on in many countries across Europe. It`s particularly hard for us (and the FAI) here in Ireland, with 4 major team sports all competing for the same pool of youngsters to join their ranks. Take your pick from hurling, football, soccer and rugby and there are kids now playing two or three of those codes, or even all four as I did myself. In the UK it`s soccer or rugby, with cricket in the summer. In France it`s soccer in the northern half and rugby in the south, by and large. But for the rest of Europe, soccer/football is the main team sport and often the only sport that kids dream of playing for their country. Given this distraction of so many team sports here in Ireland, how can we move forward to nurture our best young soccer talent? I`d appreciate your views... |
Replies:
Posted By: Gary McKay
Date Posted: 28 May 2014 at 1:29am
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Cycling is massive in Belgium/Holland and maybe Italy. Alpine sports massive in the Nordic and Alpine countries. Ice Hockey massive in likes if Czech Rep. You are talking nonsense. Can you explain to me how Norway (for example, I can name 8/9 others) have won approx 150 medals at the SUMMER Olympics (not their specialised Winter Olympics) and plucky ol Ireland, great little country that we are, for our size (same as Norway btw) and great little Ireland has won a massive 28 medals (mostly before the War, the first one) ? |
Posted By: foggy.nelson
Date Posted: 28 May 2014 at 11:46am
| System needs an overhaul, discussed more than Saipan, prob wnt happen unless the FAI really get behind which doesnt look like it will happen anytime soon |
Posted By: houghton88
Date Posted: 28 May 2014 at 12:34pm
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I think this is a good piece with a lot of truths. What do we do from here when we have an organisation hell bent on making money only? http://daveyhannigan.wordpress.com/2014/05/28/too-many-of-irelands-best-no-longer-good-enough/" rel="nofollow - http://daveyhannigan.wordpress.com/2014/05/28/too-many-of-irelands-best-no-longer-good-enough/ ------------- To alcohol!!!! The cause of and solution to all lifes problems. |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 28 May 2014 at 1:11pm
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Much as I blame the Gah for most of the sporting problems in Ireland, its unfair to pin this on them.
Playing multiple sports until you specialise mid teens is not unique to Ireland, and indeed we lose very few promising players to other sports, they are generally doing their nut about losing players to football. There is nothing at all wrong with broadening your skill set, even if it is games lacking in any obvious skill like gaelic.
The deeper issue is the win at all costs attitude that too many kid teams have, brawn over talent, trying to avoid mistakes rather than try a bit of skill. This culture is being eradicated slowly but surely. There is still the obesession with going overseas too young rather than study and play here.
IIRC Ireland produces more professional footballers per capita than any other country, but we haven't produced a top talent in quite a while. How much of that is simply down to population? ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 28 May 2014 at 1:12pm
And of course everything the FAI would need to do will cost money... ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
houghton88 wrote:Posted By: houghton88
Date Posted: 28 May 2014 at 2:46pm
Who's job is it to come up with the ideas though? Not the guy who wrote it. We all have ideas but the FAI aint going to listen to us. They should be the ones solving the problem but as the articles suggests the FAI dont see any problem. ------------- To alcohol!!!! The cause of and solution to all lifes problems. |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 28 May 2014 at 3:08pm
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It was a blog, not an article, don't give it creedence it doesn't deserve. Who in the FAI says there is no problem? The article says we have limited top class players, we know that. Kerr, Kovermans, Doktor - what have they been trying to do for the last 20 years? Youth structures. While they have had to cut back, there were hundreds of coaches up and down the land at one point. Anyone claiming the FAI don't see youth as a 'problem' is wrong. Could they do it better? That is a discussion. But starting from a blog piece that is factually innacurate isn't much use ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: Xpro
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 1:03am
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To the poster Gary Mc Kay who mentioned cycling in the Benelux countries and alpine sports in the Nordic countries, along with Olympic medals - they`re individual sports as opposed to the team sports which this thread is supposed to be about. Ice hockey is big in Sweden and the Czech Republic, weightlifting is huge in Bulgaria, gaelic games are massive in Ireland and fencing is a major sport in Hungary. But the predominant national sport across the whole of Europe, based on interest and attendance figures, is football. (Or soccer as we call it here). When we played Croatia in the last Euro championship, we were played off the park on a technical level. Same population as them, around 4.5 million, but the big difference is that Croation youngsters can focus on one team sport whereas our sporting youngsters are distracted beyond belief with choice. Will I hurl tomorrow night? Or play on the wing for the local rugby club`s juvenile section? Or play central defence for the local schoolboy`s soccer club? While we have a great choice of team sports in this country, it comes at a cost to the development of our future international players. Take Shane Supple, the Ipswich keeper who was earning good money in the Championship. He packed it all in and returned home, as he missed playing in nets for his local GAA team. Or Johnny Murphy from Bray, who had a promising career ahead of him at Arsenal and packed it in, returning home and ending up playing rugby for Greystones and Ireland. Would that happen with footballers from other European nations, where one code dominated? |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 8:57am
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So in about 120 years we lost one established pro to the Gardai/Gah nexus and one promising player who drifted back into rugby. Hardly scientific proof.
I would love to blame the agrisports for Paul Greene, but it is way to simplified. ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: t_rAndy
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 10:39am
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I think we may be better placed at this stage in taking a leaf out of Wales' book and try a few promising young players, even if they are yet to make a breakthrough at their respective clubs. I think there are only a handful of the current crop which are good enough to mount a serious push for qualification but my own opinion is it's not enough and they need help from better players and even if it means we don't qualify at least we are in a better position for the future. The approach is a challenge though as our managers always have a mandate to qualify whereas Wales for example it's just about improving. So I can understand our manager needing to be a bit selfish and go with the tried and trusted but I think we need to be realistic about where we are now and if things don't change then I don't think we will qualify anyway. These friendlies until the Georgia game would have been a perfect time to look at 2-3 of the really young promising players |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 10:59am
Bloody sure our managers have a "mandate" as you call it to qualify. That's what the team, the supporters, the FAI, the country wants. If there are good young players out there they will come through with their clubs and when the manager sees what they can do he will include them. Madness to suggest we jeopardise qualification for the euros by playing young lads who haven't proved themselves at club level. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: gufct
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 11:13am
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The FAI/Govt. has to invest far more time and Money in our National League and Infrastructures/Facilities. The days of droves of Irish Youngsters breaking through in England is well gone .
Its amazing that the 2 biggest Sports to receive huge state funding are Horse Racing and Greyhound Racing rather than participation sports. ------------- One City,One County,One Club GUFC will be back. |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 11:16am
Horse racing is a huge industry in Ireland and greyhound racing is it's little brother. No comparison. Leave aside the social/health side and there is no direct economic return to the state from football. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: Clonbhoy
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 11:17am
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Surely if money should could be spent on anything it would be a national academy? Unfortunately it is probabpy too late. ------------- A man can have no greater love than give 90 minutes to his friends. @withgodlygrace |
Posted By: gufct
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 11:58am
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There is an Academy of sorts going into Abbotstown but thats absolutely useless without a proper functioning National League. No ggod having an Academy if the best players are being shipped out at 15 on the cheap to England. ------------- One City,One County,One Club GUFC will be back. |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 11:59am
Lots of things are huge industries, but the taxpayer tends not to directly subsidise them
On the basis that more money is now gambled on football than horses and dogs combined, surely the FAI is entitled to a cut of the tax on gambling that is ringfenced for the bloodstock industry? ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: gufct
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 12:18pm
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RTID Spot on for once. ------------- One City,One County,One Club GUFC will be back. |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 12:29pm
Some recommended reading for you RTID http://www.itba.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Dukes-Report-II-October-2013-Update.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.itba.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Dukes-Report-II-October-2013-Update.pdf Just in case you don't have time to read it all here is the first paragraph of the Executive Summary The thoroughbred industry in Ireland is highly successful and globally competitive. It directly employs approximately 14,000 individuals and thousands more indirectly. It made a direct economic contribution of nearly €1.1 billion to the Irish economy in 2012 ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: t_rAndy
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 1:14pm
I'm talking about potentially sacrificing one campaign for the greater good and hopefully even unearthing a few players who will make a difference now. Give me Hendrick over Whelan at this moment in time for example |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 1:33pm
This is complete bollix if you will pardon me saying so. These players will be brought in when the manager thinks they're ready. And its not just the international manager. There are plenty of savvy club managers would snap these lads up if they were showing the potential to be worthwhile internationals in the short term. Yeah throw these in now kiss the Euro's good bye and end up ditching them in favour of new great hopes for the following campaign. Madness. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 1:46pm
------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: Padraig
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 1:48pm
| Do LOI teams have youth teams, as in from Under-12 and upwards? If not, I think that would be a start. Get the best young players playing with each other and getting good coaching early on. |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 1:53pm
The money goes towards promoting the industry. That's like saying why does the IDA or Bord Failte get state funds. As I said before there is no comparison between the horse industry and football. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 2:06pm
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Stunningly you have missed the point again. The IDA help startups. By the time you are earning billions, the IDA has long stepped out. Bord Failte markets Ireland as a destination.
Could you imagine a tax on all fatty foods and the proceeds going to one private, profitable Irish food company only? The entire vat take on booze going to Guinness? ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 2:07pm
------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: Clonbhoy
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 2:15pm
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Rtid is spot on here ------------- A man can have no greater love than give 90 minutes to his friends. @withgodlygrace |
Posted By: t_rAndy
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 2:36pm
I don't think we will qualify with our current bunch. My point was also talking in terms of hoping these players can add to the team straight away and give the players who are up to the task a much needed boost in quality. For example Brady hadn't really played much when he got a game with us and I think he has shown he has what it takes if he can get fit. there's a few lads like on the brink of their first teams who there is a lot of hope for and my point is why not try them out already especially in these friendly games instead of going for tried and 'trusted' like Force, Ward, Whelan, etc. when we know these lads are not going to the backbone that can realistically achieve us qualification this campaign or into the future whereas young players may not gaurentee success either but at least would put us in a better position in the future with more experience. I'm not talking about replacing our good players but more so the ones who are not good enough to get us qualification realistically and I'm also not talking about if we were playing Germany in a qualifier tomorrow but these friendly games which are pretty meaningless (considering we keep losing) and Georgia and Gibraltar ( games where we should win ) where we can afford to already introduce inexperienced players |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 2:41pm
You are the one missing the point. The horse industry is just that an industry just like tourism. The horse industry is not one private profitable company. The state invests in the promotion of all our industries. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: Gary McKay
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 3:00pm
FACT. LOI Scout - "what's the fullbacks name ?" DDSL Elite Club manager - "Fcuk off" |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 3:55pm
Now as it happens I don't have a huge issue with the state assisting an industry become best in class. But it now is, so I do have questions over why it is still supported when turning over billions.
But my issue is the manner in which they support it. The ENTIRE tax take from gambling goes to the horse industry. Considering most sports betting is on football, why are the FAI not entitled to a cut? Imagine what they could do with even 10% of the fund? ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: tony grealish
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 4:00pm
Christ almighty, is this nonsense still as prevalent as ever? The DDSL and it's various fiefdoms obviously haven't changed their ways much. ------------- ''I've had a rough night and I hate the f**kin eagles, man!!'' |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 4:12pm
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Its not as bad as it used to be and the FAI have started to openly take on the schoolboy clique. Does it happen on other countries? Do Wandsworth Wanderers get to keep players when Arsenal come calling? ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: Clonbhoy
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 4:15pm
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It is Wabdsworth Town FC, but the point is correct ------------- A man can have no greater love than give 90 minutes to his friends. @withgodlygrace |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 4:16pm
 . If that is the entire substance of your rebuttal then there is little point pursuing it.It is not uncommon for some taxes to be ring fenced for specific purposes. Your contention that the FAI is entitled to a cut of the gambling tax just because people bet on football matches is more than spurious. Maybe they should get a cut of the tax on booze as well since many supporters go for a few or more pints before and after matches. The FAI is in receipt of stae funds like most other sporting organisations in the country. Of course it's not enough for the FAI or any other sporting body but I for one don't want to pay more tax so the state can give more to the FAI, IRFU, GAA etc. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 4:53pm
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You are acting the thick now. The justification for the tax was that gambling was an industry that was in effect contributing nothing to the sport it fed off. So a tax was imposed and the funds pumped into the horses. Fine.
But betting patterns changed.
Now they still have the funding on the basis that gambling should contribute to horses, but not football, despite it being over half the market. That is not 'spurious'.
Hilarious that you don't want to fund grassroots sport but are happy to fund a multi billion euro industry. ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 5:05pm
I am happy to see my taxes being spent productively promoting an industry that is a substantial net contributor to the economy. As regards acting the thick I suppose you are one of the lucky that does'nt need to act  ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 5:12pm
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So you would prefer to have your taxes go to support a viable industry turning over billions than on kids sport.
Right ho. ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: Xpro
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 5:21pm
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I`m out of touch with the schoolboy football scene but dont tell me the blazers in DDSL clubs are still being precious about releasing youngsters to LOI clubs?! The likes of Home Farm, St Kevins, Belvedere, etc are self-serving nurseries that have been churning out kids for export almost since the dawn of time. And what happens to these kids when they get "away"? They`re put on YTP`s (youth training programmes), they stay in Mrs Jones or Mrs Smith`s lodging house, their schooling gets scuppered, and the vast majority of them dont get handed a pro contract on reaching their 18th birthday. Worst of all, these starry-eyed kids leave Ireland at 16 with a great fanfare, where family, friends and neighbours gather around to see them off. "Dont forget me when you make your millions", or "you`ll be driving a big sports car in a few years, son". The poor kid leaves with huge expectations on his shoulders and if he doesnt get a pro contract, he`s left out on the slackheap at 18. Down through the years, hundreds of Irish kids have ended up like this, where 98% of hopeful trainees never make the grade. Many of these get disillusioned and drift away from the game, or play semi-pro in one of the Conference leagues rather than face the shame of coming home. If there was a proper academy structure in place here, then these kids could stay at home among family and friends, finish their education, and prove themselves in the LOI. |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 5:21pm
It seems you may be getting the message at long last. Yes I would prefer my taxes to be used productively on an industry that is a net contributor to the economy. I certainly don't want it given to John Delaney to support his salary or the expenses of all the blazers we see ambling down from their luxury suites in the Sheraton at away matches. We can all choose to support kids sports in our own community financially or in kind as we wish. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 5:32pm
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Also, the IDA doesn't just support startups. It also supports multi-billon dollar international enterprises setting up here: http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/apple-and-google-got-25m-in-grant-aid-from-ida-29309759.html" rel="nofollow - Apple and Google , among others, got money from the IDA. ------------- 
|
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 10:31am
------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: MayoMark
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 11:51am
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A few problems exist. First of all, I believe population is an excuse. We have more than enough participating to be developing good players. Competition too early. Kids being fired onto an 11 a side full sized pitch to play for cups and trophies and prizes at 10 years of age is nothing other than ridiculous. We want kids to fall in love with football. That means small-sided games across the board. 4v4 and 5v5. Loads of touches, no competition, no fear of losing, no lunatic adults roaring at them, learn to love the game, the ball, and become comfortable with the ball at your feet. I fell in love with football playing on the street and in the green with my mates, not by winning cups. And not winning cups was not the reason I quit football either. U14/15/16, up for debate, to become competetive. Elite academies, county/league representative sides to meet at least 3-4 hours per week, and not taking part in sh*te, badly run competitions. Mayo U16s trained for 14 weeks this year, played 2 games and it was all over. Make these competitions longer, more meaningful and more professional. Put the best players up against the best players at LEAST 6-10 times a season. Not twice. Fix those two things and you've made a start ------------- They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car... |
Posted By: MayoMark
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 11:54am
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Oh, and another thing. When kids are competing for FAI and SFAI Cups, have the f**king final in the f**king national stadium. Not in some random field in Offaly. A very simple thing to do. GAA offer their player Croke Park, while we offer them... well we don't know, wait and see who we're playing first, we might be "away" in the final. ------------- They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car... |
Posted By: Borussia
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 11:58am
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Loads of good ideas there from MayoMark. One question I always have is in relation to pitches - Something I never hear mention of either at home or here in England where they are constantly trying to figure out why they don't produce enough quality footballers. In both cases, most underage football is played in parks where any bit of green space with a few markings qualifies as a football pitch. Most of these aren't in great condition so don't really lend themselves to players playing with the ball at their feet. It's totally different on the continent where pitches are of a far better standard : I'm wondering if that makes a difference. |
Posted By: SuperDave84
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 12:02pm
Errr... a startup is a new company with limited resources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startup_company" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startup_company They are entirely different from expanding multinationals. Anyway, that's a total aside. -------------
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 1:22pm
 RTID showing some serious ignorance there. then comes up with the patronising "petal" line to crown it apple and google are startups are they RTID ?
 for you. seriously. ------------- The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own. |
Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:00pm
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Rtid is right in !y view, its the job of the state to support areas of life that are beneficial to the citizens which the !market cannot do. The market is a good system but it's not perfect. Funding for greyhound tracks so people can have a good night out after work is scandalous when coated to lack of finding for kids doing healthy exercise esp when we have a child hood obesity problem which could be a ticking timebomb on our health services. Money into coaching and healthy pursuits should always come before something like greyhound racing etc. There is very little health benefit from greyhound racing as a sport. Yeah that industry got plenty of money and their tracks were renovated. ------------- AKA pedantic kunt |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:09pm
Wouldn't life be grand if the country could afford to pour money into every area of life which is beneficial to citizens. Ben Dunne would be delighted to be getting state subvention for his gyms. The greyhound business is an industry which supports over 10,000 full and part time jobs and is worth over €500 million annually to the economy. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:15pm
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Jsl you clearly do not understand. Ben Dunne is providing a product and there is no market failure there. The job of government is not to supplement already existing healthy markets. Some times its better to spend 10 million this year so not to spend 50 million in 5 years. Its called investing in your people and thinking long term and strategically. Running a country like an accountant is not the way forward as we have seen both in boom and bust. You can't see past your hand it seems. Childhood obesity is a major problem. Health care is going up and up as people live longer but are sicker longer. Therefore people are becoming more and more expensive . improving peoples health and the knock on benefits such as mental health, more productive in work etc etc that comes from investing in childhood fitness has many benefits which can be seen for years and years. ------------- AKA pedantic kunt |
Posted By: seanyshuffler
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:17pm
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Get rid of the stuffed rabbits at greyhound tracks and stick fat children in rabbit suits and let the greyhounds chase them. Two birds one stone. |
Posted By: Clonbhoy
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:18pm
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Is jsl, JohnnyC? The f**king markets kid, the markets! ------------- A man can have no greater love than give 90 minutes to his friends. @withgodlygrace |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:44pm
You are arguing against yourself and we can all spout puerile nonsense eg improving peoples health makes them live longer and be sicker for longer in old age. It also drives up the cost of pensions and social welfare payments and so is a bad investment. There has been substantially more state investment in sport in the last 15 years compared to previously yet childhood [and adult] obesity is mushrooming at an alarming rate. It is not the lack of facilities that is causing this. It's the mentality of people generally but particularly parents. If you don't want your kid to be a fat fcuk take him to the park or buy him a cheep bike. Anyway back to the real world. Desirable as it may be the country can not currently afford to put more money into organisations such as the FAI, GAA, IRFU etc. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:46pm
Not a bad suggestion at all but I would rather see the hounds chase the parents of the fat kids. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:46pm
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But we can into the horse industry that does not actually need it? ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:48pm
jaysis ------------- The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own. |
Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:48pm
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But it should be put it into greyhound racing and horse racing :). For feck sake. Listen to yourself. You want people to die so they can save the state a fortune. Unbelievable stuff. Money is not the only metric in life. ------------- AKA pedantic kunt |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:50pm
MNC's get state support to set up in Ireland. That is very different to the claim that ALL Irish industry gets state support.
Will Apple or Google be getting support in 5 years? The IFSC got IDA support to embed in Ireland, now they don't. This is not complicated.
------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:50pm
We can't afford not to my fiend but you seem to have difficulty understanding this - maybe that explains your double counting on the other thread ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: Clonbhoy
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:50pm
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If you killed everyone at 65. Also if ya kill the unemployed. f**k it, kill everyone who doesn't own a horse! ------------- A man can have no greater love than give 90 minutes to his friends. @withgodlygrace |
Posted By: erimus
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:53pm
------------- This is our f**king country we're talking about - Keano ROLL ON 2016 |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:54pm
All industries get state support in one form or other whether it be direct investment, tax concessions and breaks, R&d grants etc. Will Apple and Google be getting state support in 5 years - definitely and if not they will pack off and go elsewhere. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 3:00pm
But lets be clear, you are arguing that taxpayers money should only go to already successful private business on the basis it increases profit margins and not to things like sport on the basis they add a social and community good. ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 3:03pm
They really, really don't though.
The IFSC grands stopped about 5 years ago, there was no rush from the international banks to leave.
You are drowning here ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 3:05pm
------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: Gary McKay
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 3:17pm
Just the serial unemployed Although most of them own horses !!! |
Posted By: irishmufc
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 3:18pm
JSL is also keen on starting from "Year Zero" Cambodia style. As a philosophical intellectual like yourself Baldrick, you'll be among the first for the cull ------------- Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been. |
Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 3:20pm
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Philosophical intellectual = argumentative virgin bastard :) ------------- AKA pedantic kunt |
Posted By: Gary McKay
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 3:26pm
You're not too far off the mark there as some in this country count 1921 as Year Zero. De Valera and McQuad spring to mind but we wont go there. |
Posted By: irishmufc
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 3:29pm
Out of curiosity what did you study in college if you did go? I studied Philosophy and Theology myself. ------------- Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been. |
Posted By: irishmufc
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 3:29pm
------------- Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been. |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 3:54pm
If you can't see the difference between state funding for the horse industry and state funding for football then I suggest you go back to counting LOI football matches where 1+1 apparently equals 4 ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 4:02pm
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State involvement in certain key industries and killing the infirm and old. How very Germany c 1936. ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: roverstillidie
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 4:05pm
My point is that it is backwards. The state should not fund profitible but politically powerful private industry over funding a sports infrastructure. You are arguing this on the basis it should be public policy to divert funds from the community to the rich and try and kill off people as early as possible. ------------- He is Karl Pilkington in the LOI section and Karl Marx outwith it |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 5:01pm
So you obviously think the state should not give funds to Bord Failte to promote our profitable tourism business or to Bord Bia to promote our very profitable agri-food industry and give it to the FAI instead. Only one jackass on this thread and it's not me. Just stop digging for fcuk sake and move on. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 5:07pm
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If certain industries are so successful why do they need state funding. Surely the job of the state is to intervene where their is market failure not where there is a successful market in place. I.e. unemployment benefit for people who cannot find work esp in a recession as wholesale poverty and homelessness would affect the whole of society and not just those directly affected. Using your logic the state should only help people who are doing well for themselves as they will get a better Return on investment helping out those who can help themselves. Not everything is about the immediate return on investment. Certain areas of society give longer term returns in investment and others give you a return which cannot be mesusred in monetary terms. ------------- AKA pedantic kunt |
Posted By: BigStrongMan
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 5:15pm
------------- PM me for all forum moderation queries. |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 5:20pm
As was pointed out so eloquently by my friend RTID I am not an economist. However as far as I know it is the role of the state to encourage and support economic activity. I have no problem with the state directly assisting unemployed persons but it would be far preferable from a social and economic viewpoint if the state could encourage the creation and retention of employment so that these people could actually go out to work. I never at any time suggested the state should only help people who are doing well for themselves. My point was and remains the state should prioritise funding for industry where it is necessary to ensure the retention and creation of jobs over funding for sporting organisations like the FAI, GAA and IRFU. ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: Xpro
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2014 at 1:43am
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First off, congrats to Ybig on their 9th anniversary, which is some feat for any forum website which invariably ends up canned after a few months. I only discovered the site by chance a couple of years ago and it offers a great sounding-board for the opinions of Irish soccer fans. Given there are more threads on this site than a textile factory in Bangladesh, it`s hard to keep up with the various comment. I began this thread with a pointed and what I thought was a pertinent question: how do we keep up with our international rivals? (i.e., nations across Europe are currently developing state-of-the-art coaching academies for their youth, while we`re dithering and hoping "ah sure, if we send enough young lads over to England we`ll end up with a great team"). My thread soon went south, with the usual suspects continuing their spats or squabbles decidedly off-thread. I was trying to address the issue of future development for our international soccer team and MayoMark made an interesting contribution. As for RTID, Roger Milla, etc, arguing about the merits or otherwise of the Irish Bloodstock industry to the Irish economy, do these guys not grasp the basic characteristics of a thread - that you stay within topic and dont wander off to nitpick with other posters? It`s otherwise known as online etiquette... |
Posted By: Just saying like
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2014 at 7:27am
I couldn't agree more. Well said Xpro. Cop yourselves on lads, stop bullsh*tting about horses and dogs and learn a bit of online etiquette  . ------------- I don't know what more we can do in terms of being open and transparent - John Delaney |
Posted By: t_rAndy
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 9:46pm
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This is the 4th time I've seen Chile this year and they have looked so efficient everytime. Backed them to reach the semi and it's not a bad bet! But I remembernot so long ago Chile were very average. I remember they beat us at landsdowme about 10 years ago and it was a shock. Chile are not the only team who have come from the wilderness. Anyway my point, we need to find out what the hell is going on in these countries and try and emulate it. |
Posted By: Gary McKay
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 9:54pm
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Cycles. |
Posted By: Green Devil
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 10:16pm
They have a population of 17 million people, soccer mad nation and happen to have a competitive domestic league.
------------- "He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland," Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan |
Posted By: tribalarmy
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 10:27pm
Marcelo Bielsa happened. |
Posted By: Gary McKay
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 10:34pm
| Zamorano and Salas were long before Bielsa. |
Posted By: BabbsBalls
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 10:38pm
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The simple fact is that the South Americans know how to play football and we don't . ------------- l hear you are a racist now, father ? |
Posted By: tribalarmy
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 10:58pm
But Bielsa is what happened in the 10 years that trandy was talking about. He's the one that gave this group of players an identity and style that suits their abilities perfectly. |
Posted By: Gary McKay
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 11:08pm
I know that and my point is that it goes in cycles. In 4 years time Paraguay and Peru may qualify in place of Chile and Uraguay. |
Posted By: trapscat
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 10:08am
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1st the fai need to invest in underage and forget about paying the aviva debt off by 2020 2nd get more coaches into national schools 3rd merge the SFAI, Junior leagues, FAIS etc under direct FAI control, to prevent them operating as separate entities, producing a unified body promoting soccer in this country. 4th Try to change the irish mindset from national sports, to international sports. As a GAA player I enjoy the game and enjoy when waterford do well, but I love when my country beats another on the international stage a whole lot more, 5th The CEO needs to get out of his bubble, that he thinks our underage system, is producing enough talent up to standard, for our international team. Listen to your grass roots, rather than your well paid advisors, and ERSI reports that allows him quote the areas that look good. |
Posted By: gufct
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 11:01am
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Delaney was quoted recently as saying they wouldn't be able to pay off the Aviva debt before 2020. ------------- One City,One County,One Club GUFC will be back. |
Posted By: AlanH
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 12:06pm
I agree 100% with tribalarmy on this. The style that Chile are playing in this World Cup is very much along the same lines as what we saw from them in 2010. Bielsa has had a huge influence on their style of play in much the same way as we saw during his time at Athletic Bilbao. Unfortunately, I don't think the FAI would ever have the foresight or be bold enough to appoint such a technically proficient manager. We generally look for the short-term option. |
Posted By: benchwarmer
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 5:16pm
Think we need to find a way of getting young children away from playstations/ smart phones etc to have any hope of implementing the above properly. (same as in most first world countries) Changing the way football is coached in this country would take lot of highly paid pen pushers way way out of their comfort zones. ------------- ''I'm a utd fan cause me da was a utd fan''- Irish utd fan |
Posted By: Xpro
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 12:17am
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Some interesting points from the poster "trapscat" there. But getting coaches into our primary schools - would there not be a lot of resistance to that? A lot of the school principals, particularly in rural areas, would be more intent on promoting gaelic games. Or maybe I`m wrong... We`re fairly unique here in Ireland in having 4 dominant games - soccer, gaelic football, hurling and rugby. All 4 codes are competing against each other for the same youngsters and many of these kids grow up idolising players from non-soccer codes. (Henry Shefflin, Colm Cooper, Brian O`Driscoll, etc) Take Croatia, which has a similar (4.5 million) population to us. They churn out technically-gifted players year after year, but their kids are far more focused on soccer as the main ball sport. Ok, basketball and tennis are big as well, but soccer/football is the national sport, same as it is in most countries of the world |
Posted By: Blue Man
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 12:38am
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I think the answer is pretty straightforward. In 2013: Ratio of coaches to children in Germany was 1:150 Ratio of coaches to children in Ireland was 1:650. ------------- "Everytime Leeds concede a goal, its like being stabbed in the heart" - Billy Bremner Gary Speed 1969-2011 YBIG Blind Date Champion 2010 |
Posted By: GoneToShowgies
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 12:38am
| a PYRAMID SYSTEM would be a big help. A good progressive connection up the ladder from underage football to LOI football would benefit kids. People can say what they like about the LOI standard but at the end of the day its the highest level of football in the country and where kids can learn most about the game in a professional and competitive environment. The stronger the LOI is, the the closer and easier the gap will be for young players to make the step up. |
Posted By: Doyler1993
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 12:46am
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The majority know what must be done to stop us falling behind other nations but the problem is that those at the top and those with the money don't see any problem as we are still competitive in the majority of qualifying groups. Efforts must be put in to keep young talented kids in ireland and have them playing at a competitive level where they can work there way up to playing in the league of ireland and then making a move across to england when they are good enough and proved that they can play at a senior level. Also the quality of coaching must improve but with the costs of getting any uefa badges i dont see to many taking this option and any that do after spending so much money will probably be looking to get paid with their coaching jobs which will more than likely result in a coaching job abroad. ------------- IT’S NO USE BOILING YOUR CABBAGE TWICE |
Posted By: trapscat
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 9:15am
totally right wit rural areas, live in a rural area myself and the principal of the local school is totally GAA, soccer is not given a chance. I guess soccer will all was play second fiddle to gaa, and when the top man in d FAI thinks all is good in rural areas their wont b much of a change. |
Posted By: MasterOfApples
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 10:03am
There would be resistance to that, putting it mildly. The GAA are bound to the education system here, just like the RCC are/were. Football will always be secondary to GAA in schools.
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Posted By: greengooner
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 10:11am
1. The state should give funds to an orgnaization which promotes tourism - Bord Failte 2. the state should NOT give funds to Hotels like Dromoland Castle Are we agreed on that - Bord failte PROMOTES tourism, Dromoland Castle DELIVERS tourism. Ok, moving on so..... 1. the State should give funds to an organization to promote the horseracing/greyhound industry - Horse Racing Ireland (HRA)/Irish Greyhound Association (IGA) for instance 2. the state should NOT give funds to some of the wealthiest people in Ireland and in the WORLD to supplement their company - Aidan O'Brien, Sheikh al Makhtoum etc Again, HRI/IGA promotes their Industry and Aidan O'Brien/Sheikh al Makhtoum DELIVERS that industry. THerefore : Do I want my tax money to be used promoting and improving Irish football into the future for everyone Do I want my tax money to be used making ridiculously wealthy people even more wealthy by giving them tax funded tax breaks, almost non-existent corporation profits tax levels, prize money frmo winning races etc? Its a bit of a rhetorical choice, if you have any morals to be honest!! Oh and for those here who think that ALL corporations are treated equally by state funding, ask the employees of places like (just for instance...!) a. cappoquin chickens b. Waterford glass c. Bausch and Lom if they were given huge amounts of public funds to support their employment? Like *** they were! ------------- Platini are you listening You'd better keep your trophy glistening Cos we'll be over next year To drink all your beer, Walking in an Irish Wonderland. |
Posted By: 085immersive
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2014 at 2:53pm
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We are doing brilliant obviously. Costa Rica beat Italy and Uruguay and we drew with them all in the space of the past few weeks. So we are better than Italy and Uruguay. Costa Rica are in the last 16 in the world cup and we are equal to them! |