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Rangers Financial Crisis

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Topic: Rangers Financial Crisis
Posted By: athlonecelt
Subject: Rangers Financial Crisis
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2011 at 6:57am
'For every 5 pound they spend, we'll spend ten'
How that quote has come back to haunt them.
 
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2011/09/13/martin-bain-gets-s480-000-of-rangers-funds-frozen-as-judge-says-there-is-real-risk-of-club-going-bankrupt-86908-23418442/ - http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2011/09/13/martin-bain-gets-s480-000-of-rangers-funds-frozen-as-judge-says-there-is-real-risk-of-club-going-bankrupt-86908-23418442/
 
Loads of tabloids being banned from Ibrox now, as the press conferences get more harrowing.
When the Daily Record says something bad about Rangers, things must be tem times worse.
 
Will the Scottish parliament bail them out to 'conserve toursim' ?
How will they get out of this ?



Replies:
Posted By: eamonn88
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2011 at 7:16am

They will get out by going into admin



Posted By: John W
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2011 at 7:20am
They should of taken the 9.5 million for Jelavic at the end of the window.


Posted By: athlonecelt
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2011 at 2:50pm
Was that the 9.5 mill bid from the unnamed team ??
 
An unnamed team that just popped up with 3 hours to go. We never heard of them all summer, no speculation, no bids, no offers, no tapping up, nothing. If a team were that serious about Jelavic they would have unsettled him early in the summer and offered him 4 times his wages and given Rangers an offer theire debtors simply couldnt refuse.
 
The media were zoning in on a club going into admin, the fans were roaring for signings. 8 bids later , Blackburn outbid them for Goodwillie.
Transfer deadline day, and the huns have got no news from Ibrox. The fans wanted a big signing. Rangers threw out this story to get the fans nerves going and then eventually feeling that Rangers had done great by not selling Jelavic. They mustnt need the money so, they mean business by keeping Jelavic.
Bullsh*t. No bid was made for 9.5 million
 


Posted By: tonyjaa
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2011 at 3:04pm
im gonna guess John W was joking


Posted By: Shoco
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2011 at 3:05pm
and i suppose the 6.5m bid fomr leicester was all made up too?  Wacko

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YOUR 3 IN A ROW LEAGUE CHAMPIONS


Posted By: Green Devil
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2011 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by eamonn88 eamonn88 wrote:

They will get out by going into admin

 
If Rangers got deducted 10 points it would be fine by me Tongue
 


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"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"

Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan


Posted By: PhilliyK
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2011 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Green Devil 
<DIV>If Rangers got deducted 10 points it would be fine by me <img src=http://www.ybig.ie/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif height=17 width=17 border=0 alt=Tongue title=Tongue /></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>[/QUOTE Green Devil
If Rangers got deducted 10 points it would be fine by me Tongue
 
[/QUOTE wrote:


 
Just out of curiousity is there a 10 point penalty in Scotland for going into admin??
 
Its only a recent thing in england in the last 2-3 years(the 10point penalty) but have never really h
 
Just out of curiousity is there a 10 point penalty in Scotland for going into admin??
 
Its only a recent thing in england in the last 2-3 years(the 10point penalty) but have never really heard much about the rules in scotland governing this kind of thing


Posted By: Denis Irwin
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2011 at 5:19pm

I see a group of Celtic supporters are planning to go to Ibrox on Sunday dressed as Taxmen



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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn


Posted By: samscafe
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 12:44am
Automatic 10 point deduction if you go into administration.

However, Rangers cannot just simply go into administration to avoid their debts.  The company with those debts is also the one with the license to play in the SPL.  They would either need to buy another club or convince the administrator that the company with the license is a sellable asset and should be separated from the debt.  Of course HMRC won't be sitting back scratching their arses at this time.    


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Certain mods are complete wankstains


Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 3:05am
No chance of them getting points deducted lads, FFS this is the SFA we're talking about


Posted By: Devrozex
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 3:52am
Originally posted by samscafe samscafe wrote:

Automatic 10 point deduction if you go into administration.

However, Rangers cannot just simply go into administration to avoid their debts.  The company with those debts is also the one with the license to play in the SPL.  They would either need to buy another club or convince the administrator that the company with the license is a sellable asset and should be separated from the debt.  Of course HMRC won't be sitting back scratching their arses at this time.    
 
That's their big issue alright.
 
'A.F.C Rangers' anyone? Or 'Rangers of Glasgow' perhaps? LOL
 
Good enough for the scum bags. Thumbs Up


Posted By: dunloybhoy
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 4:01am
their debt is a lot worse that they let on. the on going court case with former board member martin bain has caused £500k to be ring fenced as the courts say there is a serious chance of rangers going into adminstration!

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put em under pressure!


Posted By: athlonecelt
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 5:02am
WackoWacko 
No Shocko the bid from LEICESTER WAS LEGIT. They confirmed it.
I must have hit a nerve somewhere with you.
 
You obviously arent clued into this subject area Shocko so ill give you a bit of facts.
Jelavic agent has even said that there was no 9.5 million bid.
Ally McCoist was put on the spot and said he had heard nothing.
 
The only man who claims this bid was the new chief executive trying to keep the wolf from the door.
Sorry that this hits such a nerve with you Shocko. Your leicester comment was pathetic.
Whats wrong  with you ?


Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 5:19am
Originally posted by athlonecelt athlonecelt wrote:

WackoWacko 
No Shocko the bid from LEICESTER WAS LEGIT. They confirmed it.
I must have hit a nerve somewhere with you.
 
You obviously arent clued into this subject area Shocko so ill give you a bit of facts.
Jelavic agent has even said that there was no 9.5 million bid.
Ally McCoist was put on the spot and said he had heard nothing.
 
The only man who claims this bid was the new chief executive trying to keep the wolf from the door.
Sorry that this hits such a nerve with you Shocko. Your leicester comment was pathetic.
Whats wrong  with you ?
 
Peter Lawwell took the piss out of this a few days after -
 

"We turned down a bid of £29m for Gary Hooper," Lawwell said at an event to announce former Prime Minister Gordon Brown as patron of the John Thomson Memorial Committee.

"It came from an unknown agent from another universe."



Posted By: The Drifter
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 5:28am
Originally posted by athlonecelt athlonecelt wrote:

Was that the 9.5 mill bid from the unnamed team ??
 
An unnamed team that just popped up with 3 hours to go. We never heard of them all summer, no speculation, no bids, no offers, no tapping up, nothing. If a team were that serious about Jelavic they would have unsettled him early in the summer and offered him 4 times his wages and given Rangers an offer theire debtors simply couldnt refuse.
 
The media were zoning in on a club going into admin, the fans were roaring for signings. 8 bids later , Blackburn outbid them for Goodwillie.
Transfer deadline day, and the huns have got no news from Ibrox. The fans wanted a big signing. Rangers threw out this story to get the fans nerves going and then eventually feeling that Rangers had done great by not selling Jelavic. They mustnt need the money so, they mean business by keeping Jelavic.
Bullsh*t. No bid was made for 9.5 million
 


private bidder from jamaica so i hear...


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My dream has always been to play for the Republic of Ireland - James McClean.


Posted By: the_walls
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 6:21am
Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Originally posted by samscafe samscafe wrote:

Automatic 10 point deduction if you go into administration.

However, Rangers cannot just simply go into administration to avoid their debts.  The company with those debts is also the one with the license to play in the SPL.  They would either need to buy another club or convince the administrator that the company with the license is a sellable asset and should be separated from the debt.  Of course HMRC won't be sitting back scratching their arses at this time.    
 
That's their big issue alright.
 
'A.F.C Rangers' anyone? Or 'Rangers of Glasgow' perhaps? LOL
 
Good enough for the scum bags. Thumbs Up
 
Rangers Foras Co-Op


Posted By: tonyjaa
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 8:23am
Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

and i suppose the 6.5m bid fomr leicester was all made up too? 

Wacko


nope , that happened , Sven even went public saying how dissapointed he was with the way der hun handled it


Posted By: dunloybhoy
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 8:53am
i was quite shocked they turned it down. prob they didnt want to see him as when they go into adminstration that would have been taken off them. lol
 
on another note the tickets for suns game are £42! do rangers want us celtic fans to clear their debt for them this weekend|!!! lol


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put em under pressure!


Posted By: dunloybhoy
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 9:06am

A giant on the ropes: Rangers' tax troubles Q&A

Page last updated at 12:17 GMT, Thursday, 15 September 2011 13:17 UK

  • http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/email/news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14930737.stm - E-mail this to a friend
  • http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14930737.stm?print=true - Printable version
By Matt Slater
Sports news reporter
Ibrox Stadium There is a storm brewing over Ibrox, the home of a true giant in British football

For 90 minutes at Ibrox this Sunday, all will seem normal in Scottish football.

Rangers and Celtic will tear into each other, more than 50,000 fans at the game will roar themselves hoarse, thousands more will shout at their computers, radios and televisions, and police in Glasgow, Belfast and beyond will ready themselves for a lively shift. It will be business as usual for the Old Firm.

But for Rangers, the champions and current league leaders, the past week has been anything but business as usual. Two http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-14854938 - legal setbacks in an Edinburgh court have broken the seal on Rangers' darkest secret: they are staring apparent financial ruin in the face.

This epiphany has brought forth a flood of questions from fans, detractors and other interested observers: most of these can be summed up as variations on shock or schadenfreude. I cannot promise to answer all of them but I will try to tackle the most pressing.

Q: What on earth is going on?

A: Rangers are being pursued by HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) for two unpaid bills. With interest and late-payment penalties going back more than 10 years, they now total in the region of £54m, although the final figure could be even higher according to some sources.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14930737.stm#skip_feature_02 - Continue reading the main story Rangers owner Craig Whyte

No one can say with 100% certainty what the outcome will be - that is why there is a tribunal. I can say categorically that we will be fighting the club's case most vigorously.

Craig Whyte Rangers owner

Q: How did that happen?

A: The only simple way to answer this is to start with an important distinction: tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion is illegal. Rangers, like most companies and wealthy individuals, have tried to reduce their tax bills. Some people say this is the cynical exploitation of loopholes, others say it is business (and it is, to be fair, pretty big business).

There is, however, a fine line between avoidance and evasion and Rangers MAY have smudged it over the last decade with two schemes designed to reward their top earners in the most "tax efficient" way.

Q: What did they do?

A: Let's deal with the biggest bill first.

Between 2001 and 2010, Rangers paid almost £48m into an http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employers/employee-benefit-trusts.htm - Employee Benefit Trust (EBT). A trust is a legal creation that enables somebody to own an asset on behalf of somebody else. The first person is the trustee and the second is the beneficiary. Company pension schemes are a common example of a trust.

With EBTs, an employer pays money into a trust and that money is paid out to the beneficiaries in the form of loans. These loans are not subject to income tax or National Insurance. In fact, most of these trusts are based in offshore tax havens so they are hardly taxed at all.

Anyway, these loans are a bit like the ones you would offer a hard-up friend on a night out - here's £20, pay me back when you can but I'm not going to remember this so don't worry about it. Here, however, is the heart of HMRC's case.

For an EBT to stay on the right side of the avoidance/evasion line, these payments cannot be made on a contractual basis, as that would make them wages and therefore subject to the usual deductions. So they should, on occasion, be postponed and even refused by the trustee, who is, in theory, acting independently of the employer anyway.

HMRC says Rangers' EBT did not work like this and was, for all intents and purposes, a tax scam. It also says it has proof of this in the form of documents and emails between Ibrox's top brass and players' agents. So, last year, an angry taxman hit Rangers with a bill for £35m in unpaid tax and interest and £14m in penalties.

Rangers, already in debt to their banker and other creditors to the tune of almost £30m, denied the accusation of tax evasion and went to a tribunal in October to argue their case.

That hearing lasted for two weeks but when no decision was reached it was rescheduled for a further three weeks this spring. Again, no decision came and a final tribunal hearing will take place in November.

Q: What about the other bill?

A: This one emerged in the club's accounts this April and is related to a different tax avoidance ruse operated between 1999 and 2003.

Called a Discounted Options Scheme, it is a more complicated version of the EBT as it funnels what experts call the "disguised remuneration" through a "money-box company" set up in a tax haven. The beneficiary then gets shares in the company and you can guess the rest.

It was, for a while, a popular way for bankers to avoid paying tax on their bonuses but HMRC closed the loophole and has been chasing up lost tax ever since.

The sum Rangers owe - and they have agreed this much - is £2.8m in back taxes and interest. What they continue to dispute is the £1.4m HMRC is demanding in penalties. The undisputed amount is due now, in fact, it's overdue again, if that makes sense.

The taxman has been applying considerable pressure in recent weeks, via the courts, prompting some to wonder if Rangers can even pay this relatively small sum, which brings us to this week's shenanigans.

Q: The two legal defeats in Edinburgh?

A: Yes, broadly speaking.

In the first, Rangers were taken to court over an unpaid legal bill of £35,000. The amount and what it was for are not relevant to this tale but what came out in court last week is. The law firm in question effectively put in black and white what some had been saying for some time: Rangers might go bust, we want our money now.

Former Rangers CEO Martin Bain Bain's 15-year career at Ibrox came to an end when Craig Whyte took over

If that message had not got through it was spelled out in bold type all over the Scottish tabloids this week when Martin Bain, the former Rangers chief executive, http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/bain-granted-order-to-freeze-500-000-of-rangers-assets-1.1123506 - successfully persuaded a judge to freeze £480,000 of Rangers' money just in case they might not be able to pay the £1.3m in damages he wants for breach of contract.

The judge ring-fenced half of what the life-long Rangers fan was asking to freeze because he agreed there was a "real and substantial risk of insolvency". That would make a win for Bain in vain.

But what really hurt Rangers' new owner Craig Whyte, the man who pushed Bain out, was the leaking of court papers filed by the ex-CEO that revealed just how exposed Rangers are to an HMRC victory.

And Bain should know, he went to work at Ibrox in 1996, joined the board in 2000 and ran the business for former owner Sir David Murray from 2005.

Having recently mortgaged off the next few years' catering revenues at Ibrox, Whyte can afford to pay the smaller tax bill and worry about filling the hole in the club's finances later. But being forced to pay even a hefty chunk of the big bill will kill a club that played a European final only three years ago.

Q: So why did Whyte buy Rangers with all this hanging over them?

A: The only sensible answer to this question is "pass" as so much is uncertain and so little is known for sure about Whyte's finances.

But in the time it has taken me to write this piece, the 40-year-old businessman has issued a passionate denial that Rangers are at the abyss.

"The club is trading normally and has a strong balance sheet," Whyte said via Rangers' official website, before lambasting Bain and others for wrongly suggesting the club is on the brink.

"No one can say with 100% certainty what the outcome will be - that is why there is a tribunal," Whyte added. "(But) I can say categorically that we will be fighting the club's case most vigorously."

And that, with an Old Firm game looming, is all any Rangers fan can ask for.



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put em under pressure!


Posted By: Shoco
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by tonyjaa tonyjaa wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

and i suppose the 6.5m bid fomr leicester was all made up too? 

Wacko


nope , that happened , Sven even went public saying how dissapointed he was with the way der hun handled it


which is why i find it hard to believe that they would "save face" by making up a fake bid when they turned down a real bid, apparently shocKo whoever he is, is pathetic for thinking such a thing Shocked


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YOUR 3 IN A ROW LEAGUE CHAMPIONS


Posted By: Mary Kate
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 4:25pm
The last true defenders of whats left of the empire, the protectors of the union, they are her majestys chosen people, and how do they show their loyalty, but by ripping off and not paying their taxes to her majestys exchequer. Tut Tut
 
 Fake shower of plastic loyalist's,


Posted By: athlonecelt
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 5:04pm
Oh its 'hard to believe'   thats a come down from Wacko i suppose. 
 
Just make sure you dont say anything negative about Rangers , and nobody will mistake you for an Ira supporter. God forbid.
 
The pathetic quote was bringing up the Leicester bid. A bid that did happen as some sort of proof that this 9.5 mill bid happened. How does one prove the other ?
 
You didnt comment on my ideas as to why this bid was bullsh*t, you just pointed at one that wasnt and try to claim i believe that the Leicester bid was nonsense. Which I dont.
 If I did , I would have said so.
 
What you did is like turning to an Ireland fan, who has a grief with Henry , and saying ' i suppose he cheated there again', after every goal he scores for the rest of his life.
 
 
All quotes from McCoist, Jelavic and his agent point to serious doubt.
All Scottish reporters treated it with bemusement. 
 
But hey im Wacko , like most Rangers fans and Scottish media for having this opinion.
 
 


Posted By: athlonecelt
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 5:22pm

They would have been slaughtered if they took 6 million. They would only have made a profit of 2 million on him. Hes by far their best player, possibly the best in Scotland. Aiden McGeady fetched 10 million.

They needed Leicester to outbid this phantom team.


Posted By: Shoco
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 11:14am
Originally posted by athlonecelt athlonecelt wrote:

Oh its 'hard to believe'   thats a come down from Wacko i suppose. 
 
Just make sure you dont say anything negative about Rangers , and nobody will mistake you for an Ira supporter. God forbid.
 
The pathetic quote was bringing up the Leicester bid. A bid that did happen as some sort of proof that this 9.5 mill bid happened. How does one prove the other ?
 
You didnt comment on my ideas as to why this bid was bullsh*t, you just pointed at one that wasnt and try to claim i believe that the Leicester bid was nonsense. Which I dont.
 If I did , I would have said so.
 
What you did is like turning to an Ireland fan, who has a grief with Henry , and saying ' i suppose he cheated there again', after every goal he scores for the rest of his life.
 
 
All quotes from McCoist, Jelavic and his agent point to serious doubt.
All Scottish reporters treated it with bemusement. 
 
But hey im Wacko , like most Rangers fans and Scottish media for having this opinion.
 
 


holy jaysus you have lost it


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YOUR 3 IN A ROW LEAGUE CHAMPIONS


Posted By: athlonecelt
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 12:20pm
Clap


Posted By: samscafe
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 3:42pm
I am hearing Gordon Smith has asked BBC Scotland if his old job is still available

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Certain mods are complete wankstains


Posted By: samscafe
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 3:47am


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Certain mods are complete wankstains


Posted By: IrishPride
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 6:18am
Originally posted by samscafe samscafe wrote:

LOLLOL


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Galway Will Win The 2014 Hurling Championship



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