"bit of balls" thread ( keane podcast)
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Topic: "bit of balls" thread ( keane podcast)
Posted By: horsebox
Subject: "bit of balls" thread ( keane podcast)
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 3:48am
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Derval O'Rourke interviews Roy Keane at Ipswich.
http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2010/pc/pod-v-10111021m36stjmsdervalroy.mp3 - http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2010/pc/pod-v-10111021m36stjmsdervalroy.mp3
Just over halfway through.
Less than complimenatry comments about the mentallity of the Irish team and some of the senior players.
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It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Replies:
Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 3:50am
 horsebox wrote:
Less than complimenatry comments about the mentallity of the Irish team and some of the senior players |
theres a shocker 
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Trap junior
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 5:21am
You get the impression that he's fairly fond of dogs I'd say 1/4 of that interview revolved around dogs.
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC)
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Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 7:51am
Trap junior wrote:
You get the impression that he's fairly fond of dogs I'd say 1/4 of that interview revolved around dogs. |
aye, he married one
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 9:12am
RogerMilla wrote:
horsebox wrote:
Less than complimenatry comments about the mentallity of the Irish team and some of the senior players |
theres a shocker |
He is not wrong, we are mental midgets, absolutely cack ourselves and only play when we have nothing to lose..The team is badly missing a pair of balls.
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Posted By: Wild Rover
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 9:17am
Keano is always good craic.
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Niall Quinn is god
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Posted By: Bob Hoskins
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 9:35am
Does he say anything about not been able to lick your elbow? Or why you can't rub your belly (clokwise) and pat your head (anti clockwise) at the same time
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Romario 2016: And the ticket mafia gets caught! Well, four years ago I had already told the government.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 9:37am
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
horsebox wrote:
Less than complimenatry comments about the mentallity of the Irish team and some of the senior players |
theres a shocker |
He is not wrong, we are mental midgets, absolutely cack ourselves and only play when we have nothing to lose..The team is badly missing a pair of balls. |
well theres one thing i admire about keane and you even when ye talk out yeer holes ye are consistent !! 
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Trap junior
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 9:38am
Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 4:39pm
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
horsebox wrote:
Less than complimenatry comments about the mentallity of the Irish team and some of the senior players |
theres a shocker |
He is not wrong, we are mental midgets, absolutely cack ourselves and only play when we have nothing to lose..The team is badly missing a pair of balls. |
well theres one thing i admire about keane and you even when ye talk out yeer holes ye are consistent !! |
harsh enough,, some lads can't face the truth Roger, and maybe your one of them. .its been pretty obvious with this team..alot of gusto, but not balls, reeks of an inferiority complex...
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 4:55pm
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
horsebox wrote:
Less than complimenatry comments about the mentallity of the Irish team and some of the senior players |
theres a shocker |
He is not wrong, we are mental midgets, absolutely cack ourselves and only play when we have nothing to lose..The team is badly missing a pair of balls. |
well theres one thing i admire about keane and you even when ye talk out yeer holes ye are consistent !! |
harsh enough,, some lads can't face the truth Roger, and maybe your one of them..its been pretty obvious with this team..alot of gusto, but not balls, reeks of an inferiority complex... |
the truth me hole , we are just not good enough , we all long for the days when we had a world class midfield , we do not even have one world class player, some fellas are just happy moaning , i think we do very well considering the talent we have
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 5:08pm
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
horsebox wrote:
Less than complimenatry comments about the mentallity of the Irish team and some of the senior players |
theres a shocker |
He is not wrong, we are mental midgets, absolutely cack ourselves and only play when we have nothing to lose..The team is badly missing a pair of balls. |
well theres one thing i admire about keane and you even when ye talk out yeer holes ye are consistent !! |
harsh enough,, some lads can't face the truth Roger, and maybe your one of them..its been pretty obvious with this team..alot of gusto, but not balls, reeks of an inferiority complex... |
the truth me hole , we are just not good enough , we all long for the days when we had a world class midfield , we do not even have one world class player, some fellas are just happy moaning , i think we do very well considering the talent we have |
dont buy that for a minute compared to most teams we ahve a very good squad,,,are you trying to tell me we dont have as good if not a better squad as slovakia, sweden, denmark, slovenia, croatia, switzerland....? come on now that argument is such a cop-out we have a sqaud that should be at least qualifying for tournaments....i dont see how you think we done well, we have done absolutely nothing, we only beat georgia and cyprus in the last campaign...bulgaria imploded...we contually match teams in terms of play, in fact Russia was the first time we were blatantly out-classed in a game in many a year....
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 5:23pm
the fact that we match the teams is down to the team spirit and tactics , russia outclassed us and slovakia are about at our level , so we will get into playoffs again , how you could think we should be doing better and topping groups is beyond me
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 5:45pm
RogerMilla wrote:
the fact that we match the teams is down to the team spirit and tactics , russia outclassed us and slovakia are about at our level , so we will get into playoffs again , how you could think we should be doing better and topping groups is beyond me |
im sorry it was our 1950s tactics that allowed Russia to do that to us, traps lazy perperation and refusal to change tactics resulted in that masacre, we were over-run in midfield, they had 5 in midfield against 4, so tactical naivety played a huge part in that defeat,, as of yet i have not seen one tactical maserclass from trap. I did not see Russia open up any other team like that, andora, slovakia and macedonia included. ..personally i think Russia are not as good as we now make them out to be. I think we were more than capable of beating them at home, we seen how bad their defence was, that poor slovakian team have the liathroidi to get 3 points off them in moscow...we would never have that...
imo we have a better squad of players than we dId competing in WC2002.....I think were capable of so much more, Trap is not the man for us, our squad is more than capable of winning this group, but they are almost afraid to do it...
.
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Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 5:54pm
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Jesus Derval O Rourke sounds like a right pain in the hole.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 6:06pm
Citizen wrote:
im sorry it was our 1950s tactics that allowed Russia to do that to us, traps lazy perperation and refusal to change tactics resulted in that masacre, we were over-run in midfield, they had 5 in midfield against 4, so tactical naivety played a huge part in that defeat,, as of yet i have not seen one tactical maserclass from trap. I did not see Russia open up any other team like that, andora, slovakia and macedonia included. ..personally i think Russia are not as good as we now make them out to be. I think we were more than capable of beating them at home, we seen how bad their defence was, that poor slovakian team have the liathroidi to get 3 points off them in moscow...we would never have that...imo we have a better squad of players than we dId competing in WC2002.....I think were capable of so much more, Trap is not the man for us, our squad is more than capable of winning this group, but they are almost afraid to do it.... |
and i dont agree with any of that analysis at all .
you talk like a bit of balls is all thats needed to go to moscow and win
russia are miles better than us , man for man we would be lucky to get 3 or 4 players in that russia squad .
slovakia are our level , if we fail to beat them at home then i will agree that trap is not the man for us but stop trying to make out there is some 1st seed team in there and trap is holding them back, or their own fear is.. it is the same lack of fear or lack of discipline that makes teams over stretch themselves and get pumped ,
sorry but you make sweeping staements about "liathroidi" but that really belies any substance in those staements
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 6:20pm
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
im sorry it was our 1950s tactics that allowed Russia to do that to us, traps lazy perperation and refusal to change tactics resulted in that masacre, we were over-run in midfield, they had 5 in midfield against 4, so tactical naivety played a huge part in that defeat,, as of yet i have not seen one tactical maserclass from trap. I did not see Russia open up any other team like that, andora, slovakia and macedonia included. ..personally i think Russia are not as good as we now make them out to be. I think we were more than capable of beating them at home, we seen how bad their defence was, that poor slovakian team have the liathroidi to get 3 points off them in moscow...we would never have that...imo we have a better squad of players than we dId competing in WC2002.....I think were capable of so much more, Trap is not the man for us, our squad is more than capable of winning this group, but they are almost afraid to do it.... |
and i dont agree with any of that analysis at all .
you talk like a bit of balls is all thats needed to go to moscow and win
russia are miles better than us , man for man we would be lucky to get 3 or 4 players in that russia squad .
slovakia are our level , if we fail to beat them at home then i will agree that trap is not the man for us but stop trying to make out there is some 1st seed team in there and trap is holding them back, or their own fear is.. it is the same lack of fear or lack of discipline that makes teams over stretch themselves and get pumped ,
sorry but you make sweeping staements about "liathroidi" but that really belies any substance in those staements |
well its been evident, were you not watching the game against slovakia? and no, to win in russia we need some tactics aside from 'hoof to doyle'...we need to actually stuy the opositon an neutralise ther positions of strenght,,,any decent manager does it, let alone one 'proclaimed to be one of the greatest'..advocaat made him look a complete mug...and yes i do profess that that traps tactics are restraining he creative freedom of the team....Advocaat said his main tactic for unsettling the irsh was closing own the full back line so we would play the long ball sooner than we liked to doyle, who had two men on him.....the point is there is no plan B...Trap is a myth, if we are going to play route 1 regressive football we should be at least hard to score agant, yet our defence is as shambolic as ever, even our defending of set pieces is atrocious..his persistance with players like kilbane and green is beyond belief...i dont think we will qualify again tbh....I will still be hoping but for me the biggest cardinal sin is not learning from our mistakes.
I really hope to god for the life and soul of Irish football he is not offered a new contract
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 6:25pm
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
im sorry it was our 1950s tactics that allowed Russia to do that to us, traps lazy perperation and refusal to change tactics resulted in that masacre, we were over-run in midfield, they had 5 in midfield against 4, so tactical naivety played a huge part in that defeat,, as of yet i have not seen one tactical maserclass from trap. I did not see Russia open up any other team like that, andora, slovakia and macedonia included. ..personally i think Russia are not as good as we now make them out to be. I think we were more than capable of beating them at home, we seen how bad their defence was, that poor slovakian team have the liathroidi to get 3 points off them in moscow...we would never have that...imo we have a better squad of players than we dId competing in WC2002.....I think were capable of so much more, Trap is not the man for us, our squad is more than capable of winning this group, but they are almost afraid to do it.... |
and i dont agree with any of that analysis at all .
you talk like a bit of balls is all thats needed to go to moscow and win
russia are miles better than us , man for man we would be lucky to get 3 or 4 players in that russia squad .
slovakia are our level , if we fail to beat them at home then i will agree that trap is not the man for us but stop trying to make out there is some 1st seed team in there and trap is holding them back, or their own fear is.. it is the same lack of fear or lack of discipline that makes teams over stretch themselves and get pumped ,
sorry but you make sweeping staements about "liathroidi" but that really belies any substance in those staements |
well its been evident, were you not watching the game against slovakia? and no, to win in russia we need some tactics aside from 'hoof to doyle'...we need to actually stuy the opositon an neutralise ther positions of strenght,,,any decent manager does it, let alone one 'proclaimed to be one of the greatest'..advocaat made him look a complete mug...and yes i do profess that that traps tactics are restraining he creative freedom of the team....Advocaat said his main tactic for unsettling the irsh was closing own the full back line so we would play the long ball sooner than we liked to doyle, who had two men on him.....the point is there is no plan B...Trap is a myth, if we are going to play route 1 regressive football we should be at least hard to score agant, yet our defence is as shambolic as ever, even our defending of set pieces is atrocious..his persistance with players like kilbane and green is beyond belief...i dont think we will qualify again tbh....I will still be hoping but for me the biggest cardinal sin is not learning from our mistakes.I really hope to god for the life and soul of Irish football he is not offered a new contract |
what i saw in the game against slovakia is that we went out to win the thing and could have perhaps done so.
as for trap as i said i am disappointed as well with the whole green/kilbane scenario , the fact is we dont have a good enough midfield to feed doyle , sure i have said it a hundred times we need a man who can play a killer pass , but he actually doesnt exist in an irish context at the minute...
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Weser777
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 3:19am
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
im sorry it was our 1950s tactics that allowed Russia to do that to us, traps lazy perperation and refusal to change tactics resulted in that masacre, we were over-run in midfield, they had 5 in midfield against 4, so tactical naivety played a huge part in that defeat,, as of yet i have not seen one tactical maserclass from trap. I did not see Russia open up any other team like that, andora, slovakia and macedonia included. ..personally i think Russia are not as good as we now make them out to be. I think we were more than capable of beating them at home, we seen how bad their defence was, that poor slovakian team have the liathroidi to get 3 points off them in moscow...we would never have that...imo we have a better squad of players than we dId competing in WC2002.....I think were capable of so much more, Trap is not the man for us, our squad is more than capable of winning this group, but they are almost afraid to do it.... |
and i dont agree with any of that analysis at all .
you talk like a bit of balls is all thats needed to go to moscow and win
russia are miles better than us , man for man we would be lucky to get 3 or 4 players in that russia squad .
slovakia are our level , if we fail to beat them at home then i will agree that trap is not the man for us but stop trying to make out there is some 1st seed team in there and trap is holding them back, or their own fear is.. it is the same lack of fear or lack of discipline that makes teams over stretch themselves and get pumped ,
sorry but you make sweeping staements about "liathroidi" but that really belies any substance in those staements |
well its been evident, were you not watching the game against slovakia? and no, to win in russia we need some tactics aside from 'hoof to doyle'...we need to actually stuy the opositon an neutralise ther positions of strenght,,,any decent manager does it, let alone one 'proclaimed to be one of the greatest'..advocaat made him look a complete mug...and yes i do profess that that traps tactics are restraining he creative freedom of the team....Advocaat said his main tactic for unsettling the irsh was closing own the full back line so we would play the long ball sooner than we liked to doyle, who had two men on him.....the point is there is no plan B...Trap is a myth, if we are going to play route 1 regressive football we should be at least hard to score agant, yet our defence is as shambolic as ever, even our defending of set pieces is atrocious..his persistance with players like kilbane and green is beyond belief...i dont think we will qualify again tbh....I will still be hoping but for me the biggest cardinal sin is not learning from our mistakes.
I really hope to god for the life and soul of Irish football he is not offered a new contract
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+1
I got slated on this for giving out about our performance against Armenia in september..people were happy with the way we played, and said that the team picked, does the job...I said that we're gonna be shown up by a bigger team, purely because of a stubborn manager along with his absolutely ridic tactics and even more ridic player's he picks...no more than a handful of new players in this weeks friendly either..it's a piss take!!
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"I'm not the best manager in the world, but I'm definitely in the top one!" - Brian Clough
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Posted By: Trapped
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 11:50am
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
im sorry it was our 1950s tactics that allowed Russia to do that to us, traps lazy perperation and refusal to change tactics resulted in that masacre, we were over-run in midfield, they had 5 in midfield against 4, so tactical naivety played a huge part in that defeat,, as of yet i have not seen one tactical maserclass from trap. I did not see Russia open up any other team like that, andora, slovakia and macedonia included. ..personally i think Russia are not as good as we now make them out to be. I think we were more than capable of beating them at home, we seen how bad their defence was, that poor slovakian team have the liathroidi to get 3 points off them in moscow...we would never have that...imo we have a better squad of players than we dId competing in WC2002.....I think were capable of so much more, Trap is not the man for us, our squad is more than capable of winning this group, but they are almost afraid to do it.... |
and i dont agree with any of that analysis at all .
you talk like a bit of balls is all thats needed to go to moscow and win
russia are miles better than us , man for man we would be lucky to get 3 or 4 players in that russia squad .
slovakia are our level , if we fail to beat them at home then i will agree that trap is not the man for us but stop trying to make out there is some 1st seed team in there and trap is holding them back, or their own fear is.. it is the same lack of fear or lack of discipline that makes teams over stretch themselves and get pumped ,
sorry but you make sweeping staements about "liathroidi" but that really belies any substance in those staements |
well its been evident, were you not watching the game against slovakia? and no, to win in russia we need some tactics aside from 'hoof to doyle'...we need to actually stuy the opositon an neutralise ther positions of strenght,,,any decent manager does it, let alone one 'proclaimed to be one of the greatest'..advocaat made him look a complete mug...and yes i do profess that that traps tactics are restraining he creative freedom of the team....Advocaat said his main tactic for unsettling the irsh was closing own the full back line so we would play the long ball sooner than we liked to doyle, who had two men on him.....the point is there is no plan B...Trap is a myth, if we are going to play route 1 regressive football we should be at least hard to score agant, yet our defence is as shambolic as ever, even our defending of set pieces is atrocious..his persistance with players like kilbane and green is beyond belief...i dont think we will qualify again tbh....I will still be hoping but for me the biggest cardinal sin is not learning from our mistakes.I really hope to god for the life and soul of Irish football he is not offered a new contract |
what i saw in the game against slovakia is that we went out to win the thing and could have perhaps done so.
as for trap as i said i am disappointed as well with the whole green/kilbane scenario , the fact is we dont have a good enough midfield to feed doyle , sure i have said it a hundred times we need a man who can play a killer pass , but he actually doesnt exist in an irish context at the minute... |
Rubbish. Trapatonni is terrible at giving players a chance when they are on form. There are too many players to mention who are doing very well at club level but get overlooked every single time an Irish squad is announced. It's almost as if he doesn't watch what these players are doing elsewhere and judges them solely on what he sees at training.
I fully agree with Citizen that we are afraid to kill off teams. We play a system that sacrifices creativity for supposedly making us hard to beat, yet we are a shambles at the back. To say we haven't got the players is complete nonsense. The reality is we are nowhere near maximising the potential of our squad.
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67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
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Posted By: Trap junior
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 12:06pm
I have to agree that there are bad signs in the way Trapattoni is working. I disagree with Milla on us not being able to compete with Russia for top spot. They are a decent international side but no more. Football is not played on paper and I believe even though they individually have better players than us I think they are very beatable if we galvanised our lads and maximised our strengths and were well organised. We dont have the balls its true. We're afraid to beat the big teams ans its a self fulfilling prophesy evident in Paris, Zilina and against Spain in 2002. I dont think we will play that bad again as we did against Russia and I think we will get a draw over there. I remember Spain beat us 3-1 at home in 1993. I wont panic over one result. Every international team has a shocker every now and then.
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC)
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Posted By: yapster
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 1:30pm
Baldrick wrote:
Jesus Derval O Rourke sounds like a right pain in the hole. |
That face & accent of hers would put anyone off...
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 9:03am
Trap junior wrote:
They are a decent international side but no more. |
wrong , they have world class player and a top class manager as well , they are miles ahead of us
as you said every team has a shocker, their shocker was against slovakia , they will piss this group now
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 9:06am
trapped wrote:
The reality is we are nowhere near maximising the potential of our squad. |
dont agree with any of what you said above,
i think you lads are not grasping the reality that we are not good enough , you want fellas who have very little experience brought in and then you expect them to make the step up immediately ,
i agree trap has been remiss about kilbane and green and that he is conservative, but the alternatives that some fellas on here are proposing is pure daftness
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 11:02am
RogerMilla wrote:
trapped wrote:
The reality is we are nowhere near maximising the potential of our squad. |
dont agree with any of what you said above,
i think you lads are not grasping the reality that we are not good enough , you want fellas who have very little experience brought in and then you expect them to make the step up immediately ,
i agree trap has been remiss about kilbane and green and that he is conservative, but the alternatives that some fellas on here are proposing is pure daftness |
your not grasping reality roger...the alternatives to kilbane, stephen kelly, stephen ward, kevin foley, john o'shea......alternatives for paul green, james mccarthy, stephen reid (horrendusly treated by trap), lawence, gibson, pure bonkers suggestions alright.....
PLease name all the world class players (bar arshavin)Russia have Roger, they didn't qualify for the world cup ? i don't see how you think they are world beaters? Your mindset is what frustrates me and is the same inferiority complex that the team have(the excuse culture), i really am disappointed that you are coming out with such absolute bile, i really thought your understanding of international football was better tbh.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 11:18am
Citizen wrote:
absolute bile, |
please pick up a dictionary and check what bile means
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 11:24am
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
i agree trap has been remiss about kilbane and green |
your not grasping reality roger...the alternatives to kilbane, stephen kelly, stephen ward, kevin foley, john o'shea......alternatives for paul green, james mccarthy, stephen reid (horrendusly treated by trap), lawence, gibson, pure bonkers suggestions alright.....PLease name all the world class players (bar arshavin)Russia have Roger, they didn't qualify for the world cup ? i don't see how you think they are world beaters? Your mindset is what frustrates me and is the same inferiority complex that the team have(the excuse culture), i really am disappointed that you are coming out with such absolute bile, i really thought your understanding of international football was better tbh. |
you misread me , i agree that kilbane and green have to go , i am saying that fellas here want robbie keane , glenn whelan and aiden mcgeady dropped ! they want us to field a whole new 11 in a friendly when players need to be blooded in along with the established stars ,
as for the russians i know eff all about russian football , what i know is that they were awesome in the last euros, lost out freakily in a playoff for the world cup , have a league that is on the way up , a population 70 times bigger than our own and that they made an absolute show of us in dublin last month , they are miles ahead of us , and your solution to bring us to their level is " a bit of balls " dont make me laugh
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 11:46am
I see the armchair managers are back out again.
When are some of yiz going to realise that we have been over achieving for the past couple of seasons under Trap.
The footballing style may not be easy on the eye, but away from home we've been a revelation.
Look at where most of our best players are playing, or in many cases not even playing. We've lots of lads with lesser clubs who are barely up to international standard, yet they are stepping up to the plate. I would say a combination of tactics and self belief, instilled by a manager whom they trust implicitly has brought this about.
Then there are some untried youngsters about that bodes well for the future, but for now that's what it is.
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Posted By: The Drifter
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 12:00pm
Stoked Up wrote:
I see the armchair managers are back out again.
When are some of yiz going to realise that we have been over achieving for the past couple of seasons under Trap.
The footballing style may not be easy on the eye, but away from home we've been a revelation.
Look at where most of our best players are playing, or in many cases not even playing. We've lots of lads with lesser clubs who are barely up to international standard, yet they are stepping up to the plate. I would say a combination of tactics and self belief, instilled by a manager whom they trust implicitly has brought this about.
Then there are some untried youngsters about that bodes well for the future, but for now that's what it is.
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well we have lads that are playing at a top level and then are told "oh because you're not starting for your club...because you're too young....because you don't have the right head for international football"??!
it's all excuses from trapatoni. just pick the players and get rid of the ones who are clearly costing us. the reason we made russia look so good was evident because of two players, kilbane and green. they're too slow for international football and both ridiculously out of their depth. one isn't even getting his game for hull and the other is a journeyman.
we clearly have players that our good enough to be starting in our team and who i know will make us a better team. we are all over the place at the moment, scooby doo's less confused than trappatoni (tamir hasan, football factory, 2004). he is also incredibly delusional if he things he can come out and say we are a hard team to beat. the defence was attocious against russia and they should have scored more, 3-2 was a very flattering scoreline and almost masks the problems that exist in the team. and for us to come out and play very well i thought against slovakia and should have won 3-1 shows that a few changes can make all the difference. these are the things he should be learning.
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My dream has always been to play for the Republic of Ireland - James McClean.
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 12:38pm
Stoked Up wrote:
I see the armchair managers are back out again.
When are some of yiz going to realise that we have been over achieving for the past couple of seasons under Trap.
The footballing style may not be easy on the eye, but away from home we've been a revelation.
Look at where most of our best players are playing, or in many cases not even playing. We've lots of lads with lesser clubs who are barely up to international standard, yet they are stepping up to the plate. I would say a combination of tactics and self belief, instilled by a manager whom they trust implicitly has brought this about.
Then there are some untried youngsters about that bodes well for the future, but for now that's what it is.
|
over achieved??? we did NOT achieve anything whatsoever imo..i think Those who think trap is still the messiah, a) have clearly not been watching games properly, b).don't understand the dynamics of the game....Look at Northern Ireland, they have far far worse plyers than us, yet they have a manager and a belief that got them a result in slovenia, something The mighty Russia couldnt do,,,
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 12:41pm
Stoked Up wrote:
I see the armchair managers are back out again.
When are some of yiz going to realise that we have been over achieving for the past couple of seasons under Trap.
The footballing style may not be easy on the eye, but away from home we've been a revelation.
Look at where most of our best players are playing, or in many cases not even playing. We've lots of lads with lesser clubs who are barely up to international standard, yet they are stepping up to the plate. I would say a combination of tactics and self belief, instilled by a manager whom they trust implicitly has brought this about.
Then there are some untried youngsters about that bodes well for the future, but for now that's what it is.
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Sorry I forgot this was a football forum..
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 12:45pm
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
absolute bile, |
please pick up a dictionary and check what bile means |
It is a colloquialism that we use in my part of the country roger, if your are unsure of what a colloquialism is, look it up in the dictionary
|
Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 12:49pm
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
i agree trap has been remiss about kilbane and green |
your not grasping reality roger...the alternatives to kilbane, stephen kelly, stephen ward, kevin foley, john o'shea......alternatives for paul green, james mccarthy, stephen reid (horrendusly treated by trap), lawence, gibson, pure bonkers suggestions alright.....PLease name all the world class players (bar arshavin)Russia have Roger, they didn't qualify for the world cup ? i don't see how you think they are world beaters? Your mindset is what frustrates me and is the same inferiority complex that the team have(the excuse culture), i really am disappointed that you are coming out with such absolute bile, i really thought your understanding of international football was better tbh. |
you misread me , i agree that kilbane and green have to go , i am saying that fellas here want robbie keane , glenn whelan and aiden mcgeady dropped ! they want us to field a whole new 11 in a friendly when players need to be blooded in along with the established stars ,
as for the russians i know eff all about russian football , what i know is that they were awesome in the last euros, lost out freakily in a playoff for the world cup , have a league that is on the way up , a population 70 times bigger than our own and that they made an absolute show of us in dublin last month , they are miles ahead of us , and your solution to bring us to their level is " a bit of balls " dont make me laugh |
Greece won euro 2004, and have consistently qualified for tournaments since...so whats your point?, i think most people would agree we have a better squad of players than Greece...
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Posted By: Jokerman
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 12:53pm
It's a myth that we are overachieving with Trapattoni. A monkey could manage a team to beat Armenia 1-0 and draw with teams like Montenegro and Slovakia. That loss to Russia allied with the performance against Andorra are just as eye opening as any bad result we had under Kerr and Staunton.
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"I will just say one thing: players born in a country should play for their own country." Gaetano D'Agostino
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 1:15pm
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
absolute bile, |
please pick up a dictionary and check what bile means |
It is a colloquialism that we use in my part of the country roger, if your are unsure of what a colloquialism is, look it up in the dictionary |
you misused it , or perhaps everyone in your part of the country does ??
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 1:16pm
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
i agree trap has been remiss about kilbane and green |
your not grasping reality roger...the alternatives to kilbane, stephen kelly, stephen ward, kevin foley, john o'shea......alternatives for paul green, james mccarthy, stephen reid (horrendusly treated by trap), lawence, gibson, pure bonkers suggestions alright.....PLease name all the world class players (bar arshavin)Russia have Roger, they didn't qualify for the world cup ? i don't see how you think they are world beaters? Your mindset is what frustrates me and is the same inferiority complex that the team have(the excuse culture), i really am disappointed that you are coming out with such absolute bile, i really thought your understanding of international football was better tbh. |
you misread me , i agree that kilbane and green have to go , i am saying that fellas here want robbie keane , glenn whelan and aiden mcgeady dropped ! they want us to field a whole new 11 in a friendly when players need to be blooded in along with the established stars ,
as for the russians i know eff all about russian football , what i know is that they were awesome in the last euros, lost out freakily in a playoff for the world cup , have a league that is on the way up , a population 70 times bigger than our own and that they made an absolute show of us in dublin last month , they are miles ahead of us , and your solution to bring us to their level is " a bit of balls " dont make me laugh |
Greece won euro 2004, and have consistently qualified for tournaments since...so whats your point?, i think most people would agree we have a better squad of players than Greece... |
no , no we dont and you are codding yourself if you think we do
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 1:28pm
Citizen wrote:
.Look at Northern Ireland, they have far far worse plyers than us, yet they have a manager and a belief that got them a result in slovenia, something The mighty Russia couldnt do,,, |
they also drew in the feckin faroes , yeah they are really something to look up to and aspire to 
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 2:01pm
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
i agree trap has been remiss about kilbane and green |
your not grasping reality roger...the alternatives to kilbane, stephen kelly, stephen ward, kevin foley, john o'shea......alternatives for paul green, james mccarthy, stephen reid (horrendusly treated by trap), lawence, gibson, pure bonkers suggestions alright.....PLease name all the world class players (bar arshavin)Russia have Roger, they didn't qualify for the world cup ? i don't see how you think they are world beaters? Your mindset is what frustrates me and is the same inferiority complex that the team have(the excuse culture), i really am disappointed that you are coming out with such absolute bile, i really thought your understanding of international football was better tbh. |
you misread me , i agree that kilbane and green have to go , i am saying that fellas here want robbie keane , glenn whelan and aiden mcgeady dropped ! they want us to field a whole new 11 in a friendly when players need to be blooded in along with the established stars ,
as for the russians i know eff all about russian football , what i know is that they were awesome in the last euros, lost out freakily in a playoff for the world cup , have a league that is on the way up , a population 70 times bigger than our own and that they made an absolute show of us in dublin last month , they are miles ahead of us , and your solution to bring us to their level is " a bit of balls " dont make me laugh |
Greece won euro 2004, and have consistently qualified for tournaments since...so whats your point?, i think most people would agree we have a better squad of players than Greece... |
no , no we dont and you are codding yourself if you think we do |
now i know you are talking absolute smack....
I forgot you are from mayo, the most renowned bottlers in GAA history, no wonder if ye have such defeatist attitudes
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 2:22pm
Citizen wrote:
no wonder if ye have such defeatist attitudes |
when it comes down to it your whole argument here is utter rot , you can get personal all you like but when you have figured out what bile is , decided whether you want ireland to be more like meath or russia or norn iron , or can tell me exactly why "a bit of balls " and a different manager would have us beating the likes of russia all the time , then get back to me , until then reading your posts will be an utter waste of mine , and everyone elses time .
we do not have the quality to top these groups , there is a reason we have been in playoffs perpetually ( except for under useless stan) and it is not your simplistic analysis, it is becuase we do not have players of the quality needed and thats all there is to it , suggesting that fellas and management need " a bit of balls " is a pure insult to the massive effort they make and is akin to the roar of a bar-room buffoon raging at the telly as if he actually has any idea of what goes on at the elite levels of sport before he turns back to the bar , farts and clears the place.
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: The Drifter
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 2:30pm
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
no wonder if ye have such defeatist attitudes |
when it comes down to it your whole argument here is utter rot , you can get personal all you like but when you have figured out what bile is , decided whether you want ireland to be more like meath or russia or norn iron , or can tell me exactly why "a bit of balls " and a different manager would have us beating the likes of russia all the time , then get back to me , until then reading your posts will be an utter waste of mine , and everyone elses time .
we do not have the quality to top these groups , there is a reason we have been in playoffs perpetually ( except for under useless stan) and it is not your simplistic analysis, it is becuase we do not have players of the quality needed and thats all there is to it , suggesting that fellas and management need " a bit of balls " is a pure insult to the massive effort they make and is akin to the roar of a bar-room buffoon raging at the telly as if he actually has any idea of what goes on at the elite levels of sport before he turns back to the bar , farts and clears the place. |
if you think greece are a better team than us then you are clearly not in tune with world football. we have always performed admirably at tournaments we have got to and everyone knows we were hard done by in paris...i hate to refer to it...but do you honestly think if greece had of got france in the play offs they would have performed as good as we did and got to wc2010? no chance, they struggled against ukraine and the chances ukraine had, they should have qualified for wc2010.
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My dream has always been to play for the Republic of Ireland - James McClean.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 2:37pm
CPS89 wrote:
]if you think greece are a better team than us then you are clearly not in tune with world football. we have always performed admirably at tournaments we have got to and everyone knows we were hard done by in paris...i hate to refer to it...but do you honestly think if greece had of got france in the play offs they would have performed as good as we did and got to wc2010? no chance, they struggled against ukraine and the chances ukraine had, they should have qualified for wc2010. |
are you reading what i say at all ?? what is your argument ?
i am saying we perform well for what we have , you are agreeing with that for fecks sakes
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 2:41pm
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
no wonder if ye have such defeatist attitudes |
when it comes down to it your whole argument here is utter rot , you can get personal all you like but when you have figured out what bile is , decided whether you want ireland to be more like meath or russia or norn iron , or can tell me exactly why "a bit of balls " and a different manager would have us beating the likes of russia all the time , then get back to me , until then reading your posts will be an utter waste of mine , and everyone elses time .
we do not have the quality to top these groups , there is a reason we have been in playoffs perpetually ( except for under useless stan) and it is not your simplistic analysis, it is becuase we do not have players of the quality needed and thats all there is to it , suggesting that fellas and management need " a bit of balls " is a pure insult to the massive effort they make and is akin to the roar of a bar-room buffoon raging at the telly as if he actually has any idea of what goes on at the elite levels of sport before he turns back to the bar , farts and clears the place. |
your argument does not make sense, i have explained my logic, i'll explain it easier for you as you do not seem to understand it,,, your are saying we do not have the quality of squad,,,,,iam saying if we benchmark our quality against other nations who are topping groups and qualifying for tournaments we have simliar if not better players,,,i refer to counties like denmark, slovenia, slovakia, greece, switzerland...can you understand this?....and more importantly do you have a reasoned rebuttal that counters this, as so far i don't think you have answered this that doesn't involve you repeating yourself and saying my argument is rubbish!
Also you make sweeping statements that Russia have world class players in one breath and in the next reveal you do not know anything about Russian football...
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 2:42pm
RogerMilla wrote:
CPS89 wrote:
]if you think greece are a better team than us then you are clearly not in tune with world football. we have always performed admirably at tournaments we have got to and everyone knows we were hard done by in paris...i hate to refer to it...but do you honestly think if greece had of got france in the play offs they would have performed as good as we did and got to wc2010? no chance, they struggled against ukraine and the chances ukraine had, they should have qualified for wc2010. |
are you reading what i say at all ?? what is your argument ?
i am saying we perform well for what we have , you are agreeing with that for fecks sakes |
well you said greece have a better squad than us....
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 2:52pm
Citizen wrote:
we have simliar if not better players,,,i refer to counties like denmark, slovenia, slovakia, greece, switzerland...can you understand this?....and more importantly do you have a reasoned rebuttal that counters this, as so far i don't think you have answered this that doesn't involve you repeating yourself and saying my argument is rubbish!Also you make sweeping statements that Russia have world class players in one breath and in the next reveal you do not know anything about Russian football... |
we have been unable to beat switzerland for years.
slovakia and greece and denmark are seeded higher than us which not only gives them a better chance of qualifying but actually gives them easier teams to beat than we encounter, but it also means that they win more games than we do ! , greece have better players than we do and denmark normally give a good account of themselves but i am not here to defend them , i am here to say that we should nto expect to beat these teams , by your rational a bit of balls is all thats between us and world domination !! you are completely wrong in this , we need better players!! until the next roy keane or liam brady or paul mcgrath comes then we are always going to be dividing our time between 2nd and 3rd seeds and living in playoffsville , i dotn agree with your analysis and i find it simplistic , you have said nothing here to convince me otherwise
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: The Drifter
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 3:01pm
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
we have simliar if not better players,,,i refer to counties like denmark, slovenia, slovakia, greece, switzerland...can you understand this?....and more importantly do you have a reasoned rebuttal that counters this, as so far i don't think you have answered this that doesn't involve you repeating yourself and saying my argument is rubbish!Also you make sweeping statements that Russia have world class players in one breath and in the next reveal you do not know anything about Russian football... |
we have been unable to beat switzerland for years.
slovakia and greece and denmark are seeded higher than us which not only gives them a better chance of qualifying but actually gives them easier teams to beat than we encounter, but it also means that they win more games than we do ! , greece have better players than we do and denmark normally give a good account of themselves but i am not here to defend them , i am here to say that we should nto expect to beat these teams , by your rational a bit of balls is all thats between us and world domination !! you are completely wrong in this , we need better players!! until the next roy keane or liam brady or paul mcgrath comes then we are always going to be dividing our time between 2nd and 3rd seeds and living in playoffsville , i dotn agree with your analysis and i find it simplistic , you have said nothing here to convince me otherwise |
what better players do greece have?? you have failed to name any?
you have said nothing to convince us either. denmark didn't even get out of their group in wc2010 and against holland they were dire. they are in a similar situation to us with a lot of players not even starting for their respective clubs but they make good use of what they have like we should be doing. man for man, i really think we are the better team. hell, we beat them 4-0 in a friendly a few years back when they actually had a full strength team out.
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My dream has always been to play for the Republic of Ireland - James McClean.
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 3:02pm
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
we have simliar if not better players,,,i refer to counties like denmark, slovenia, slovakia, greece, switzerland...can you understand this?....and more importantly do you have a reasoned rebuttal that counters this, as so far i don't think you have answered this that doesn't involve you repeating yourself and saying my argument is rubbish!Also you make sweeping statements that Russia have world class players in one breath and in the next reveal you do not know anything about Russian football... |
we have been unable to beat switzerland for years.
slovakia and greece and denmark are seeded higher than us which not only gives them a better chance of qualifying but actually gives them easier teams to beat than we encounter, but it also means that they win more games than we do ! , greece have better players than we do and denmark normally give a good account of themselves but i am not here to defend them , i am here to say that we should nto expect to beat these teams , by your rational a bit of balls is all thats between us and world domination !! you are completely wrong in this , we need better players!! until the next roy keane or liam brady or paul mcgrath comes then we are always going to be dividing our time between 2nd and 3rd seeds and living in playoffsville , i dotn agree with your analysis and i find it simplistic , you have said nothing here to convince me otherwise |
Yet again your dodging the question!!!
Do they have better quality of players than us or not?
Greece have a better squad than us? what irish player would not get in the greek team?
I never once said a bit of balls is the key to world domination!!!...but it sure was the difference between us going to the world cup and not, and it sure was the difference betweem getting 3pts in slovakia and not,
Under Trap we have had more bad performances than good, it beggars belief that you think we are over-achieving....
..i find your analysis remedial tbh...look at blackpool in the prem this year, a bit of balls, having trust in your players, goes a long way...
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Posted By: Trapped
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 3:41pm
Stoked Up wrote:
I see the armchair managers are back out again.
When are some of yiz going to realise that we have been over achieving for the past couple of seasons under Trap.
The footballing style may not be easy on the eye, but away from home we've been a revelation.
Look at where most of our best players are playing, or in many cases not even playing. We've lots of lads with lesser clubs who are barely up to international standard, yet they are stepping up to the plate. I would say a combination of tactics and self belief, instilled by a manager whom they trust implicitly has brought this about.
Then there are some untried youngsters about that bodes well for the future, but for now that's what it is.
|
I don't know how who you can say we've been over achieving under Trap. In that case, what was our target? Mid table obscurity? I am completely baffled by that comment
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67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
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Posted By: Trapped
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 4:10pm
RogerMilla wrote:
trapped wrote:
The reality is we are nowhere near maximising the potential of our squad. |
dont agree with any of what you said above,
i think you lads are not grasping the reality that we are not good enough , you want fellas who have very little experience brought in and then you expect them to make the step up immediately ,
i agree trap has been remiss about kilbane and green and that he is conservative, but the alternatives that some fellas on here are proposing is pure daftness |
I don't think it's daft to say that James McCarthy should have been in
our squads long before this. Even if he wasn't playing he should've
been in the squads to get used to the players around him. He is the
future for us, but Trap wouldn't pick him - instead he chose
players with blatantly less ability. Every player needs time to gel into a squad but that cannot happen if he is not selected.
Anthony Stokes has scored 8 goals in 11 apperances for
Celtic but still can't get into the squad for this friendly. What would
be daft about having him in the team?
Andy Reid has consistently
shown his creative capabilities over the last few years but Trap has
refused to pick him when we've been crying out for some creativity in midfield. It
would've been far from daft to include him at any stage in my opinion.
There is no way we have been maximising the potential of our squad.
RogerMilla
and Stoked Up, you both seem to have an inferiority complex about our
team where you don't believe we have a right to be competing. You use
the fact we are a small country as an excuse for us not playing well.
If we didn't have the players i would say fair enough, but we do have
the players and we are not using them.
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67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
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Posted By: The Drifter
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 4:28pm
demographics of a country is such a cop out of an argument...croatia, a country with a population smaller than us got to the semi finals of wc98 and were one of the favourites for euro 2008.
look at where the players are that trap chose in wc qualifying ahead of clearly more talented players.
whelan, not even starting for stoke now
best, not starting for newcastle
folan, no idea where he is
andrews, injures and will have a hard time breaking into the blackburn team when he comes back
lawrence, playing in the championship for portsmouth
mcshane, playing for hull in championship
kilbane, not even on the bench for hull
now with a team like this i can understand people saying we shouldn't get our hopes up but look at the players trap wasn't playing
foley, getting rave reviews this season for goals and performances
coleman, keeping bilyatdinov out of everton team (a player who is RUSSIAN!) and putting in some assists and goals
fahey, finally getting some games at birmingham which should have been the case last season
mccarthy, arguably wigan's best player with nzogbia
wilson, pompey's best player last season and had a huge part to play in getting them to the fa cup final
stokes, scored goals for fun last season at hibernian, 2 against glasgow rangers and now bangin em in with celtic as well
it really just doesn't make sense at all....all these players clearly had the potential in the wc qualifying campaign or in friendlies since and there was no reason why they couldn't be used and settled in the team for this campaign
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My dream has always been to play for the Republic of Ireland - James McClean.
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Posted By: Jokerman
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 4:44pm
CPS89 wrote:
demographics of a country is such a cop out of an argument...croatia, a country with a population smaller than us got to the semi finals of wc98 and were one of the favourites for euro 2008.
look at where the players are that trap chose in wc qualifying ahead of clearly more talented players.
whelan, not even starting for stoke now
best, not starting for newcastle
folan, no idea where he is
andrews, injures and will have a hard time breaking into the blackburn team when he comes back
lawrence, playing in the championship for portsmouth
mcshane, playing for hull in championship
kilbane, not even on the bench for hull
now with a team like this i can understand people saying we shouldn't get our hopes up but look at the players trap wasn't playing
foley, getting rave reviews this season for goals and performances
coleman, keeping bilyatdinov out of everton team (a player who is RUSSIAN!) and putting in some assists and goals
fahey, finally getting some games at birmingham which should have been the case last season
mccarthy, arguably wigan's best player with nzogbia
wilson, pompey's best player last season and had a huge part to play in getting them to the fa cup final
stokes, scored goals for fun last season at hibernian, 2 against glasgow rangers and now bangin em in with celtic as well
it really just doesn't make sense at all....all these players clearly had the potential in the wc qualifying campaign or in friendlies since and there was no reason why they couldn't be used and settled in the team for this campaign
|
Not to mention Andy Reid. Imagine if he was coming on instead of Gibson or McShane in Paris.
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"I will just say one thing: players born in a country should play for their own country." Gaetano D'Agostino
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Posted By: The Count
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 4:46pm
Summary:
Triggs is ok 
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Posted By: The Drifter
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 6:13pm
Jokerman wrote:
CPS89 wrote:
demographics of a country is such a cop out of an argument...croatia, a country with a population smaller than us got to the semi finals of wc98 and were one of the favourites for euro 2008.
look at where the players are that trap chose in wc qualifying ahead of clearly more talented players.
whelan, not even starting for stoke now
best, not starting for newcastle
folan, no idea where he is
andrews, injures and will have a hard time breaking into the blackburn team when he comes back
lawrence, playing in the championship for portsmouth
mcshane, playing for hull in championship
kilbane, not even on the bench for hull
now with a team like this i can understand people saying we shouldn't get our hopes up but look at the players trap wasn't playing
foley, getting rave reviews this season for goals and performances
coleman, keeping bilyatdinov out of everton team (a player who is RUSSIAN!) and putting in some assists and goals
fahey, finally getting some games at birmingham which should have been the case last season
mccarthy, arguably wigan's best player with nzogbia
wilson, pompey's best player last season and had a huge part to play in getting them to the fa cup final
stokes, scored goals for fun last season at hibernian, 2 against glasgow rangers and now bangin em in with celtic as well
it really just doesn't make sense at all....all these players clearly had the potential in the wc qualifying campaign or in friendlies since and there was no reason why they couldn't be used and settled in the team for this campaign
|
Not to mention Andy Reid. Imagine if he was coming on instead of Gibson or McShane in Paris. |
true
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My dream has always been to play for the Republic of Ireland - James McClean.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 4:49am
Citizen wrote:
..i find your analysis remedial tbh...look at blackpool in the prem this year, a bit of balls, having trust in your players, goes a long way...
|
look your expectations are too high , end of . if you cannot see that then it is really pointless trying to explain it to you , liek roy keane sure you can roar at the players a bit more and see how that helps 
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:26am
CPS89 wrote:
demographics of a country is such a cop out of an argument...croatia, a country with a population smaller than us got to the semi finals of wc98 and were one of the favourites for euro 2008. |
They massively overachieved then and you conveniently forget to mention that like ourselves, they failed to qualify for the last WC. That said, Croatia is an absolute hotbed of soccer and the standards are generally much higher than here.
foley, coleman, fahey, mccarthy, wilson, stokes,
|
You mention all these lads in relation to the lads who played in the last campaign. Can't you see that there's little difference between all of them?
I've snipped your comments because clearly you don't really follow the progress of Irish lads playing in England to make plausible cases for their squad inclusion.
Many of the lads on either side of your argument, were not getting their games at their clubs last season and some this season. Your argument is nonsensical. Replacing like with like, won't suddenly transform us.
Look, I'll say it again, which I've said before in similar threads.
Trap decides the tactics and the players that suits, not us. Of course we all want our own favourites to play, (In the past I've made cases for Delap as an impact sub and McCarthy) but he's sees guys that fit the bill and others that don't.
And yes, we have overachieved with Trap, certainly in comparism to the previous three previous campaigns. What else have we to go on?
Arguably, we had better players 4-6 years ago when the likes of Keane/Duff/Dunne/Givens/Finnan/Carr were in their prime and did not even make play offs..
Anyone who cannot see that, is no different from the average barstooler that comes up with knee jerk reactions as to why we are not better than we are and offering the instant solution by naming bit players who will suddenly transform us into world beaters.
This is the sort of rationale that has our neighbours across the pond scratching their heads as to why they mostly underachieve.
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:30am
trapped wrote:
I don't know how who you can say we've been over achieving under Trap. In that case, what was our target? Mid table obscurity? I am completely baffled by that comment |
See the post above this one.
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Posted By: Jokerman
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:31am
I find it peculiar how people can justify the inclusion of Kilbane and Green period. I also find it peculiar how people can justify Andy Reid being left out because of a personal grudge. Trapattoni isn't paid to be friends with the players. If Andy Reid and anyone other than McShane came on in Paris, we would have went to the World Cup. In the words of Didier Drogba "it is a f**king disgrace".
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"I will just say one thing: players born in a country should play for their own country." Gaetano D'Agostino
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:36am
Citizen wrote:
Sorry I forgot this was a football forum. |
Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I've denied you the right to converse or reply.
Make valid arguments and I'll listen. Make nonsensical ones and I'll dispute them.
But some of the knee jerk stuff on this thread is EXACTLY the sort of stuff that Keane is discovering does not work as a manager, even though it was hugely successful for him on the pitch as a player and captain.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:44am
Jokerman wrote:
I find it peculiar how people can justify the inclusion of Kilbane and Green period. I also find it peculiar how people can justify Andy Reid being left out because of a personal grudge. Trapattoni isn't paid to be friends with the players. If Andy Reid and anyone other than McShane came on in Paris, we would have went to the World Cup. In the words of Didier Drogba "it is a f**king disgrace". |
no one is justifying green and kilbane for f**ks sakes ,
and andy reid does not deserve a place on our squad and hasnt done so in over a year , he is completely unfit and isnt even playing .
" if andy reid and anyone other than mcshane "
how the hell do you know what would have happened??
in the words of ruud gullit , " yeah , and if my auntie had a dick she'd be my uncle "
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:48am
Jokerman wrote:
I find it peculiar how people can justify the inclusion of Kilbane and Green period. I also find it peculiar how people can justify Andy Reid being left out because of a personal grudge. Trapattoni isn't paid to be friends with the players. If Andy Reid and anyone other than McShane came on in Paris, we would have went to the World Cup. In the words of Didier Drogba "it is a f**king disgrace". |
And you're another fool that cannot see that we did improve under Trap and given the paucity of players available, we did overachieve.
In regards to Kilbane, I don't think it will be too long before the new youngsters will take his place, but for as long as Trap sees him as a safer pair of hands, I'm prepared to get behind him.
Green is playing week in and week out for Derby. Look, he's clearly not premiership standard, but he's an honest grafter that's as good or as bad as much else we have to offer in midfield (McCarthy excluded.
Many have been suggesting Wilson/Lawrence/Fahey as possible replacements. Wilson has yet to claim a starting place at Stoke. Lawrence was let go and dropped a division and whilst I love Keith Fahey, he's really only a bit player at Birmingham so far.
Look, I'm really tired of the Andy Reid argument. Where's he now? On loan to a championship struggler. Some of you think he's much better than he actually is/was.
Says it all.
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Posted By: Jokerman
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:51am
Stoked Up wrote:
Jokerman wrote:
I find it peculiar how people can justify the inclusion of Kilbane and Green period. I also find it peculiar how people can justify Andy Reid being left out because of a personal grudge. Trapattoni isn't paid to be friends with the players. If Andy Reid and anyone other than McShane came on in Paris, we would have went to the World Cup. In the words of Didier Drogba "it is a f**king disgrace". |
And you're another fool that cannot see that we did improve under Trap and given the paucity of players available, we did overachieve.
In regards to Kilbane, I don't think it will be too long before the new youngsters will take his place, but for as long as Trap sees him as a safer pair of hands, I'm prepared to get behind him.
Green is playing week in and week out for Derby. Look, he's clearly not premiership standard, but he's an honest grafter that's as good or as bad as much else we have to offer in midfield (McCarthy excluded.
Many have been suggesting Wilson/Lawrence/Fahey as possible replacements. Wilson has yet to claim a starting place at Stoke. Lawrence was let go and dropped a division and whilst I love Keith Fahey, he's really only a bit player at Birmingham so far.
Look, I'm really tired of the Andy Reid argument. Where's he now? On loan to a championship struggler. Some of you think he's much better than he actually is/was.
Says it all.
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I'm not a fool. Will the same people be singing Trapattoni's praises when we don't qualify for Euro 2012?
Look, When we played France over two legs, Reid was one of the best performing players in the Premiership. If he came on for Whelan, he could have supplied a killer pass, his set pieces could have been invaluable. As it was, we brought on Gibson and McShane (the latter of whom was at fault for the Gallas goal) and handed the incentive to France.
Keep kissing Trapattoni's ass. It isn't going to get us anywhere..
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"I will just say one thing: players born in a country should play for their own country." Gaetano D'Agostino
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:54am
Jokerman wrote:
I'm not a fool. Will the same people be singing Trapattoni's praises when we don't qualify for Euro 2012? |
Let's look at objectively.
We are third seeds.
If we make the playoffs we've overachieved. End of.
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Posted By: Jokerman
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:55am
Stoked Up wrote:
Jokerman wrote:
I'm not a fool. Will the same people be singing Trapattoni's praises when we don't qualify for Euro 2012? |
Let's look at objectively.
We are third seeds.
If we make the playoffs we've overachieved. End of.
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God I am so sick of this defeatist attitude. Is it any wonder we never qualify for anything?
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"I will just say one thing: players born in a country should play for their own country." Gaetano D'Agostino
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:55am
Jokerman wrote:
[
Look, When we played France over two legs, Reid was one of the best performing players in the Premiership. |
he was never that at any stage of his career , never mind last november
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:58am
Jokerman wrote:
Stoked Up wrote:
Jokerman wrote:
I'm not a fool. Will the same people be singing Trapattoni's praises when we don't qualify for Euro 2012? |
Let's look at objectively. We are third seeds. If we make the playoffs we've overachieved. End of. |
God I am so sick of this defeatist attitude. Is it any wonder we never qualify for anything? |
It's not defeatist in the slightest. I'm stating facts. We are the third seeds in our group. If we finish better than that we've overachieved*. Do you not understand simple maths?
* Like we did in the WC qualifiers, when again we were third seeds.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:59am
Posted By: Jokerman
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 7:05am
Posted By: daithi
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 7:05am
what a load of utter tripe been sh*tted about on this thread fook me pink
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Just because it's tradition does not make it right
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Posted By: Green Devil
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 7:57am
We"re 3rd seeds for a reason due to not qualifing for a major tournament since 2002 and not beating any big team of note since then....The World Rankings are aload of p**s but they hold the key to Qualifing for Tournaments nowadays with the seedings....We can talk about Russia and Slovakia not being better than us , so far we havent shown in 4 qualifiers that we are a side capable of qualifing for the Euros "but" we have alot of matches to play with a group of players "if picked" i.e. Wilson , Coleman , Foley , McCarthy etc etc that are players that i personally think can get us back on the road for Ukraine/Poland!! Negativity gets this country nowhere trust Trap and the lads come on Ireland 
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"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"
Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 8:09am
Jokerman wrote:
(A) We are better than Slovakia. (B) If we don't beat a big team for the first time in over a decade next year, then we won't be qualifying for a tournament AGAIN. |
On a form guide over the past two qualifying campaigns, at best we are just about equal to Slovakia. What other rationale can I use?
Only some illogical, wishful thinking puts us ahead.
In the 2008 campaign, drawn in the same group, Ireland finished just ahead of Slovakia by the narrowest of margins, one point.
In 2010 WC qualifying, they topped their group with 22 points from 10 games, opposed to our 18 garnered from the same amount of games. Arguably, they were in a tougher group.
Oddly enough, we may still get to the playoffs without even beating them, should they falter again elsewhere and we don't.
By your skewed logic, the same teams would qualify for tournaments over and over again.
|
How do you work out that? We rose up from third spot to take second spot in our last campaign. This is what I mean by overachieving - how often do I have to say this?
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 8:39am
Stoked Up wrote:
CPS89 wrote:
demographics of a country is such a cop out of an argument...croatia, a country with a population smaller than us got to the semi finals of wc98 and were one of the favourites for euro 2008. |
They massively overachieved then and you conveniently forget to mention that like ourselves, they failed to qualify for the last WC. That said, Croatia is an absolute hotbed of soccer and the standards are generally much higher than here.
[QUOTE]
foley, coleman, fahey, mccarthy, wilson, stokes,
|
You mention all these lads in relation to the lads who played in the last campaign. Can't you see that there's little difference between all of them?
I've snipped your comments because clearly you don't really follow the progress of Irish lads playing in England to make plausible cases for their squad inclusion.
Many of the lads on either side of your argument, were not getting their games at their clubs last season and some this season. Your argument is nonsensical. Replacing like with like, won't suddenly transform us.
Look, I'll say it again, which I've said before in similar threads.
Trap decides the tactics and the players that suits, not us. Of course we all want our own favourites to play, (In the past I've made cases for Delap as an impact sub and McCarthy) but he's sees guys that fit the bill and others that don't.
And yes, we have overachieved with Trap, certainly in comparism to the previous three previous campaigns. What else have we to go on?
Arguably, we had better players 4-6 years ago when the likes of Keane/Duff/Dunne/Givens/Finnan/Carr were in their prime and did not even make play offs..
Anyone who cannot see that, is no different from the average barstooler that comes up with knee jerk reactions as to why we are not better than we are and offering the instant solution by naming bit players who will suddenly transform us into world beaters.
This is the sort of rationale that has our neighbours across the pond scratching their heads as to why they mostly underachieve.[/QUOTE]
This is the sort of attitude why we will never progress in sporting terms, our benchmark is set too low, as long as you have your few pints and wave your inflatable hammer you will be happy out, you are probably too locked to even watch the game, as a few in the singing section are guilty of. If you aim for mediocrity you get failure, you have to aim high to achieve success. I’m not saying nor are Trapped and Jokerman, that we should be winning tournaments, but should deffo be qualifying for them as counties with similar and less talented squads are doing so consistently. If you think trap has over-achieved you obviously have not got a breeze mate, he is the 3rd Highest paid international manager in world football, do you think his job description was not to qualify given his outlandishly high salary? People go on about Henrys handball, but even the players were the first to admit that they had opportunity after opportunity to put (a french team in turmoil) them away, but that lack of mental strength (or balls as I say) prevented them. It’s no coincidence that Italy (one of the poorest Italian team in years) scored a late equaliser against us either. We don’t have the leadership, and stomach to beat the big teams. Our record against the big teams confirms this…ye would agree that we have a miles better squad than Norn Ireland, yet they have managed to beat, England and Spain. I’m sorry lads your argument that we have no quality is complete rubbish, you said Greece have a better squad than us, in this you lose all your credibility.
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 8:52am
Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 9:28am
Citizen wrote:
[
This is the sort of attitude why we will never progress in sporting terms, our benchmark is set too low, as long as you have your few pints and wave your inflatable hammer you will be happy out, you are probably too locked to even watch the game, as a few in the singing section are guilty of. If you aim for mediocrity you get failure, you have to aim high to achieve success. I’m not saying nor are Trapped and Jokerman, that we should be winning tournaments, but should deffo be qualifying for them as counties with similar and less talented squads are doing so consistently. If you think trap has over-achieved you obviously have not got a breeze mate, he is the 3rd Highest paid international manager in world football, do you think his job description was not to qualify given his outlandishly high salary? People go on about Henrys handball, but even the players were the first to admit that they had opportunity after opportunity to put (a french team in turmoil) them away, but that lack of mental strength (or balls as I say) prevented them. It’s no coincidence that Italy (one of the poorest Italian team in years) scored a late equaliser against us either. We don’t have the leadership, and stomach to beat the big teams. Our record against the big teams confirms this…ye would agree that we have a miles better squad than Norn Ireland, yet they have managed to beat, England and Spain. I’m sorry lads your argument that we have no quality is complete rubbish, you said Greece have a better squad than us, in this you lose all your credibility. |
absolutely , its the breed of superfan like you who will lead us to this new nirvana of qualifying , sure we hardly need a manager at all
and greece obviously have had better squads than us over the last 6 years, their record speaks for itself..
norn iron beat england and spain , but in the end they get nowhere, and we are pulling away from them..
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Jokerman
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 9:48am
|
@ Citizen
There's no use arguing. It's like squeezing blood out of a stone.
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"I will just say one thing: players born in a country should play for their own country." Gaetano D'Agostino
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 9:49am
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
[
This is the sort of attitude why we will never progress in sporting terms, our benchmark is set too low, as long as you have your few pints and wave your inflatable hammer you will be happy out, you are probably too locked to even watch the game, as a few in the singing section are guilty of. If you aim for mediocrity you get failure, you have to aim high to achieve success. I’m not saying nor are Trapped and Jokerman, that we should be winning tournaments, but should deffo be qualifying for them as counties with similar and less talented squads are doing so consistently. If you think trap has over-achieved you obviously have not got a breeze mate, he is the 3rd Highest paid international manager in world football, do you think his job description was not to qualify given his outlandishly high salary? People go on about Henrys handball, but even the players were the first to admit that they had opportunity after opportunity to put (a french team in turmoil) them away, but that lack of mental strength (or balls as I say) prevented them. It’s no coincidence that Italy (one of the poorest Italian team in years) scored a late equaliser against us either. We don’t have the leadership, and stomach to beat the big teams. Our record against the big teams confirms this…ye would agree that we have a miles better squad than Norn Ireland, yet they have managed to beat, England and Spain. I’m sorry lads your argument that we have no quality is complete rubbish, you said Greece have a better squad than us, in this you lose all your credibility. |
absolutely , its the breed of superfan like you who will lead us to this new nirvana of qualifying , sure we hardly need a manager at all
and greece obviously have had better squads than us over the last 6 years, their record speaks for itself..
norn iron beat england and spain , but in the end they get nowhere, and we are pulling away from them..
|
eh thats my point, im talking about the success they achieved with an inferior squad to what we ahve, yet your come back to me praising their record. YOu said they have a better squad than us, i never mentioned results, they are a different kettle of fish.....so do Greece have a better squad than us player for player, yes or no,,,simple question?....thanks for calling me a superfan
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 9:55am
Citizen wrote:
thanks for calling me a superfan |
when you are looking up bile go the whole hog and try sarcasm as well
when greece won the euro championships they had a better sqaud than us by a country mile.
and jokerman , neither of you have made any coherent argument , nor do i expect either of you to, far too blinkered.
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Jokerman
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 10:03am
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
thanks for calling me a superfan |
when you are looking up bile go the whole hog and try sarcasm as well
when greece won the euro championships they had a better sqaud than us by a country mile.
and jokerman , neither of you have made any coherent argument , nor do i expect either of you to, far too blinkered.
|
Yeah, like the Leicester City flop Theo Zagorakis, the Portsmouth flop Angelos Basinas, the Sheffield United flop Traianos Dellas and the man who scored the winner in the final, Angelos Charisteas, who has warmed the bench at every club he went to.
Otto Rehhagel won the Bundesliga with Kaiserslautern and the European Championships with Greece. Greece have regularly qualified for tournaments under his stewardship. Maybe Trap should take a leaf out of this guy's book and stop living off accomplishments from 20 years ago.
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"I will just say one thing: players born in a country should play for their own country." Gaetano D'Agostino
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 10:10am
Jokerman wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
thanks for calling me a superfan |
when you are looking up bile go the whole hog and try sarcasm as well
when greece won the euro championships they had a better sqaud than us by a country mile.
and jokerman , neither of you have made any coherent argument , nor do i expect either of you to, far too blinkered.
|
Yeah, like the Leicester City flop Theo Zagorakis, the Portsmouth flop Angelos Basinas, the Sheffield United flop Traianos Dellas and the man who scored the winner in the final, Angelos Charisteas, who has warmed the bench at every club he went to.
Otto Rehhagel won the Bundesliga with Kaiserslautern and the European Championships with Greece. Greece have regularly qualified for tournaments under his stewardship. Maybe Trap should take a leaf out of this guy's book and stop living off accomplishments from 20 years ago. |
jokerman , you and i both know that lots of players didnt cut the mustard in the english league besides those greeks , the fact is though that most of that team had champions league experience going into that tournament and that they were of sufficient calibre to not even concede a goal during the whole tournament and played on the break to perfection, regardless of who our manager would be we would not pull that off as our players are just not good enough , that is my point . a bit of balls is not enough , you need quality , we lack it at the moment and there is no denying that. and whats more if we were winning every game 1-0 and playing boring stuff like greece , fellas would be on complaining about that too , just liek they did under jack charlton
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 10:19am
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
thanks for calling me a superfan |
when you are looking up bile go the whole hog and try sarcasm as well
when greece won the euro championships they had a better sqaud than us by a country mile.
and jokerman , neither of you have made any coherent argument , nor do i expect either of you to, far too blinkered.
|
On the sarcasm, ditto Roger,
Yeah what a great team alright roger, point well made, household anems than run off the tongue….
Team that lined up in the final of Euro 2004
(1). Nikolodas
(2). Seitardis
(4). Kapsis
(3). Fyssas
(5). Dellas
(6). Basinas
(7). Zagorakis
(8). Katsourinas
(10). Karagounis
(7). Giannakoppolis
(9). Christeas
v
(1). Given
(2). Steven Carr
(3). John O’Shea
(4). Richie Dunne
(5). Cunningham
(6). Roy Keane
(7). Steve Finnan
(8). Kevin Kilbane
(9). Clinton Morrison
(10). Robbie Keane
(11). Damien Duff
Might I add in your match report agaisnt armenia you thought Paul Green had a stormer  ..oh dear
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 10:26am
RogerMilla wrote:
Jokerman wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
thanks for calling me a superfan |
when you are looking up bile go the whole hog and try sarcasm as well
when greece won the euro championships they had a better sqaud than us by a country mile.
and jokerman , neither of you have made any coherent argument , nor do i expect either of you to, far too blinkered.
|
Yeah, like the Leicester City flop Theo Zagorakis, the Portsmouth flop Angelos Basinas, the Sheffield United flop Traianos Dellas and the man who scored the winner in the final, Angelos Charisteas, who has warmed the bench at every club he went to.
Otto Rehhagel won the Bundesliga with Kaiserslautern and the European Championships with Greece. Greece have regularly qualified for tournaments under his stewardship. Maybe Trap should take a leaf out of this guy's book and stop living off accomplishments from 20 years ago. |
jokerman , you and i both know that lots of players didnt cut the mustard in the english league besides those greeks , the fact is though that most of that team had champions league experience going into that tournament and that they were of sufficient calibre to not even concede a goal during the whole tournament and played on the break to perfection, regardless of who our manager would be we would not pull that off as our players are just not good enough , that is my point . a bit of balls is not enough , you need quality , we lack it at the moment and there is no denying that. and whats more if we were winning every game 1-0 and playing boring stuff like greece , fellas would be on complaining about that too , just liek they did under jack charlton
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So you are saying that although they were not good enough for the EPL, but they were better and more giffted than our players who were good enough for the EPL.....great logic roger, great logic....im sure it had nothing to do with a gameplan, belief, motivation, and Exposing weaknesses in the opposition.....
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Posted By: Vivakenbarlow
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 10:32am
Lets be honest lads we struggle against teams like cyprus etc yet when let off the leash we beat france in 90 minutes and could easily have beaten the italians home and away- trap is too defensive minded sure dunne said as much in the russia post match interview- trap is too set in his ways to change now- would love to see mccarthy back in the hot seat i have to say he had us playing some good ball- and the group of players we have aint world beaters but are defo as good as if not better than the greek side- come on lads that zagorakis lad is brutal but their manager got the best out of them ours doesnt simple as
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It took City 44 years to win the league and 10 months to lose it
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 10:37am
Citizen wrote:
Yeah sure, because that’s the way things work. We over achieved, you must have been delighted then with the just getting to the playoff, I mean it was such a glorious campaign, wins against the might of Georgia and cyprus, not mention two draws against a Bulgarian team who were in turmoil, we could not have got an easier group imo. |
Huh? I deal with facts. Where did I say I was delighted with just reaching the playoffs. I would have been much happier, if we'd made it to South Africa.
Some people's memories are hazardly short. Bulgaria were soft enough second seeds and perhaps we should have done better against them at home, but I'd take the away draw out there every time. But for some OTT celebrations we might have beaten Italy at home.
We lost away to Cyprus the campaign before and almost did so at home too.
If that wasn't huge progress measured against the two previous ones, I don't know what is.
Did you really think we should have won that group?
When did we last win a group? 1987, I think. Get real.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 10:43am
Citizen wrote:
(1). Nikolodas European champion
(2). Seitardis European champion
(4). Kapsis European champion
(3). Fyssas European champion
(5). Dellas European champion
(6). Basinas European champion
(7). Zagorakis European champion
(8). Katsourinas European champion
(10). Karagounis European champion
(7). Giannakoppolis European champion
(9). Christeas European champion
v
(1). Given
(2). Steven Carr
(3). John O’Shea European champion
(4). Richie Dunne
(5). Cunningham
(6). Roy Keane European champion ( debatably)
(7). Steve Finnan European champion
(8). Kevin Kilbane
(9). Clinton Morrison
(10). Robbie Keane
(11). Damien Duff
Might I add in your match report agaisnt armenia you thought Paul Green had a stormer ..oh dear |
yes , from my view of the game in the stadium it looked like he had done well , i am more than happy to retract my views when they are wrong as i did after i reviewed the game on TV , unlike your good self who is consistently correct about everything
look , you are wrong here , perhaps trap has not got us playing as good as we should , i agree with that but your simplistic, myopic, jaded and insulting view of our players faults is not the answer , "bit of balls " me hole!
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 10:44am
Stoked Up wrote:
Did you really think we should have won that group?
When did we last win a group? 1987, I think. Get real. |
ah stoke , a bit of balls would have won that group
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: RogerMilla
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 10:45am
Citizen wrote:
So you are saying that although they were not good enough for the EPL, but they were better and more giffted than our players who were good enough for the EPL.....great logic roger, great logic....im sure it had nothing to do with a gameplan, belief, motivation, and Exposing weaknesses in the opposition..... |
to win every single game and not concede ??? sure if all it took was
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Posted By: Trapped
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 11:19am
Stoked Up wrote:
trapped wrote:
I don't know how who you can say we've been over achieving under Trap. In that case, what was our target? Mid table obscurity? I am completely baffled by that comment |
See the post above this one. |
Nobody ever said we should be world beaters so you are putting words into people's mouths there.
It's
not just the odd person's favourite player being left out. It's a long
list of players who everyone else can see should be in the squad, or should have been in it a long time ago.
The
only way we have over-achieved is based on your pessimistic view of the
potential of our squad. You believe we should achieve nothing but
mediocre campaigns and be happy about it. So if we surpass the average
in your eyes it is an over-achievment. If you aim for the top spot you
may get there. If you aim for mid table you can kiss top spot away
before a ball is kicked in the campaign.
In some ways you're
better off being as you are because you have such low expectations of
the team that it is unlikely you will ever be dissapointed by their
efforts.
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67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
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Posted By: Trapped
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 11:23am
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
(1). Nikolodas European champion
(2). Seitardis European champion
(4). Kapsis European champion
(3). Fyssas European champion
(5). Dellas European champion
(6). Basinas European champion
(7). Zagorakis European champion
(8). Katsourinas European champion
(10). Karagounis European champion
(7). Giannakoppolis European champion
(9). Christeas European champion
v
(1). Given
(2). Steven Carr
(3). John O’Shea European champion
(4). Richie Dunne
(5). Cunningham
(6). Roy Keane European champion ( debatably)
(7). Steve Finnan European champion
(8). Kevin Kilbane
(9). Clinton Morrison
(10). Robbie Keane
(11). Damien Duff
Might I add in your match report agaisnt armenia you thought Paul Green had a stormer ..oh dear |
yes , from my view of the game in the stadium it looked like he had done well , i am more than happy to retract my views when they are wrong as i did after i reviewed the game on TV , unlike your good self who is consistently correct about everything
look , you are wrong here , perhaps trap has not got us playing as good as we should , i agree with that but your simplistic, myopic, jaded and insulting view of our players faults is not the answer , "bit of balls " me hole!
|
You have just contradicted yourself Milla. You previously disagreed with my comment that Trap is not maximising the potential of our squad. Now you say Trap does not have us playing as well as we should be. Therefore, essentially, you agree with me. Thanks and good night 
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67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
|
Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 11:26am
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
(1). Nikolodas European champion
(2). Seitardis European champion
(4). Kapsis European champion
(3). Fyssas European champion
(5). Dellas European champion
(6). Basinas European champion
(7). Zagorakis European champion
(8). Katsourinas European champion
(10). Karagounis European champion
(7). Giannakoppolis European champion
(9). Christeas European champion
v
(1). Given
(2). Steven Carr
(3). John O’Shea European champion
(4). Richie Dunne
(5). Cunningham
(6). Roy Keane European champion ( debatably)
(7). Steve Finnan European champion
(8). Kevin Kilbane
(9). Clinton Morrison
(10). Robbie Keane
(11). Damien Duff
Might I add in your match report agaisnt armenia you thought Paul Green had a stormer ..oh dear |
yes , from my view of the game in the stadium it looked like he had done well , i am more than happy to retract my views when they are wrong as i did after i reviewed the game on TV , unlike your good self who is consistently correct about everything
look , you are wrong here , perhaps trap has not got us playing as good as we should , i agree with that but your simplistic, myopic, jaded and insulting view of our players faults is not the answer , "bit of balls " me hole!
|
Roger, you have no argument. if you still think that greek team had superior quality to the irish team of that year, you are either
a). deluded
b). don't have a breeze
c). Being stubborn for the sake of it
The fact that Greece won Euro 2004 proves my point from the outset. Yet you think they won it because of the quality of their squad....Your response has been trying to belittle every post i have made, instead of arguing it in a reasoned fashion, you just end up looking like a complete buffoon and a spoofer.
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Posted By: Jokerman
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 11:35am
I'd like to think that I have made a decent argument as well, not that I will get any pats on the back for it because everyone has preconceived notions about me.
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"I will just say one thing: players born in a country should play for their own country." Gaetano D'Agostino
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Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 11:36am
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
(1). Nikolodas European champion
(2). Seitardis European champion
(4). Kapsis European champion
(3). Fyssas European champion
(5). Dellas European champion
(6). Basinas European champion
(7). Zagorakis European champion
(8). Katsourinas European champion
(10). Karagounis European champion
(7). Giannakoppolis European champion
(9). Christeas European champion
v
(1). Given
(2). Steven Carr
(3). John O’Shea European champion
(4). Richie Dunne
(5). Cunningham
(6). Roy Keane European champion ( debatably)
(7). Steve Finnan European champion
(8). Kevin Kilbane
(9). Clinton Morrison
(10). Robbie Keane
(11). Damien Duff
Might I add in your match report agaisnt armenia you thought Paul Green had a stormer ..oh dear |
yes , from my view of the game in the stadium it looked like he had done well , i am more than happy to retract my views when they are wrong as i did after i reviewed the game on TV , unlike your good self who is consistently correct about everything
look , you are wrong here , perhaps trap has not got us playing as good as we should , i agree with that but your simplistic, myopic, jaded and insulting view of our players faults is not the answer , "bit of balls " me hole!
|
you sure you undertand what myopic means chief?
How am I insulting to the players? The players have pretty much echoed exactly what I have said in post match interviews esp after Paris..Dunne said the same after Russia.
If being insulting is believing in the palyers capabilities, im guilty. I have pride in the team and i get behind them, i think they have shown us glimpse that they can play football, but trap does not have faith in them...Trap has nothing to offer us imo..any two bit championship manager could do what he done
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Posted By: Trapped
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 11:40am
Citizen wrote:
RogerMilla wrote:
Citizen wrote:
(1). Nikolodas European champion
(2). Seitardis European champion
(4). Kapsis European champion
(3). Fyssas European champion
(5). Dellas European champion
(6). Basinas European champion
(7). Zagorakis European champion
(8). Katsourinas European champion
(10). Karagounis European champion
(7). Giannakoppolis European champion
(9). Christeas European champion
v
(1). Given
(2). Steven Carr
(3). John O’Shea European champion
(4). Richie Dunne
(5). Cunningham
(6). Roy Keane European champion ( debatably)
(7). Steve Finnan European champion
(8). Kevin Kilbane
(9). Clinton Morrison
(10). Robbie Keane
(11). Damien Duff
Might I add in your match report agaisnt armenia you thought Paul Green had a stormer ..oh dear |
yes , from my view of the game in the stadium it looked like he had done well , i am more than happy to retract my views when they are wrong as i did after i reviewed the game on TV , unlike your good self who is consistently correct about everything
look , you are wrong here , perhaps trap has not got us playing as good as we should , i agree with that but your simplistic, myopic, jaded and insulting view of our players faults is not the answer , "bit of balls " me hole!
|
you sure you undertand what myopic means chief?
How am I insulting to the players? The players have pretty much echoed exactly what I have said in post match interviews esp after Paris..Dunne said the same after Russia.
If being insulting is believing in the palyers capabilities, im guilty. I have pride in the team and i get behind them, i think they have shown us glimpse that they can ball football, but trap does not have faith in them...Trap has nothing to offer us imo..any two bit championship manager could do what he done |
If anything, it's the lads who have zero belief in the quality of our players who are insulting them.
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67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
|
Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 12:29pm
trapped wrote:
It's a long list of players who everyone else can see should be in the squad, or should have been in it a long time ago. |
It's not a long list of everyone's opinion, not even a concise one. If you asked everyone here to suggest their best 11, most people would probably pick the same 8 or 9 players that Trap has already been picking. If you asked for replacement midfielders, you'd probably get upwards of six names. Don't you see that somewhere out of this sextet only two can play and that the only people happy would be the same people who wanted them, but not the people that wanted the other quartet?
I've got mine, just as you have your favourites. Do you see what I'm getting at?
The unfortunate fact is that right now, many of our best players are not even playing regularly for middle or low ranking premier and championship clubs. If we really had the top players that some of you think we have, they'd be plying their trades at top clubs in Britain and beyond, week in and week out. That we don't, is a true reflection on where we are at.
The only way we have over-achieved is based on your pessimistic view of the potential of our squad. You believe we should achieve nothing but mediocre campaigns and be happy about it. So if we surpass the average in your eyes it is an over-achievment. If you aim for the top spot you may get there. If you aim for mid table you can kiss top spot away before a ball is kicked in the campaign.In some ways you're better off being as you are because you have such low expectations of the team that it is unlikely you will ever be dissapointed by their
efforts. |
Again, completely untrue. I'm as disappointed as the next Ireland supporter when we don't qualify for tournaments.
You asked the question against my claim that we had overachieved as did others here and I've answered it by simply stated facts. Facts, which some of you are blatantly choosing to ignore.
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Posted By: yapster
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 3:22pm
Jokerman wrote:
It's a myth that we are overachieving with Trapattoni. A monkey could manage a team to beat Armenia 1-0 and draw with teams like Montenegro and Slovakia. That loss to Russia allied with the performance against Andorra are just as eye opening as any bad result we had under Kerr and Staunton. |
Spot on
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Posted By: yapster
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 3:25pm
Stoked Up wrote:
Citizen wrote:
Sorry I forgot this was a football forum. |
Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I've denied you the right to converse or reply.
Make valid arguments and I'll listen. Make nonsensical ones and I'll dispute them.
But some of the knee jerk stuff on this thread is EXACTLY the sort of stuff that Keane is discovering does not work as a manager, even though it was hugely successful for him on the pitch as a player and captain. |
My hat is off to Mick McCarthy as he has kept his own counsel on Saipan & Keane. Keane is a coward & a bully and has the intelligence & grace of a spoilt brat.
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Posted By: yapster
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 3:27pm
|
It was Robbie Keanes appalling miss that done it
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Posted By: Trapped
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 3:38pm
Stoked Up wrote:
trapped wrote:
It's a long list of players who everyone else can see should be in the squad, or should have been in it a long time ago. |
It's not a long list of everyone's opinion, not even a concise one. If you asked everyone here to suggest their best 11, most people would probably pick the same 8 or 9 players that Trap has already been picking. If you asked for replacement midfielders, you'd probably get upwards of six names. Don't you see that somewhere out of this sextet only two can play and that the only people happy would be the same people who wanted them, but not the people that wanted the other quartet?
I've got mine, just as you have your favourites. Do you see what I'm getting at?
The unfortunate fact is that right now, many of our best players are not even playing regularly for middle or low ranking premier and championship clubs. If we really had the top players that some of you think we have, they'd be plying their trades at top clubs in Britain and beyond, week in and week out. That we don't, is a true reflection on where we are at.
The only way we have over-achieved is based on your pessimistic view of the potential of our squad. You believe we should achieve nothing but mediocre campaigns and be happy about it. So if we surpass the average in your eyes it is an over-achievment. If you aim for the top spot you may get there. If you aim for mid table you can kiss top spot away before a ball is kicked in the campaign.In some ways you're better off being as you are because you have such low expectations of the team that it is unlikely you will ever be dissapointed by their
efforts. |
Again, completely untrue. I'm as disappointed as the next Ireland supporter when we don't qualify for tournaments.
You asked the question against my claim that we had overachieved as did others here and I've answered it by simply stated facts. Facts, which some of you are blatantly choosing to ignore.
|
Even at that, 3 out of 10 outfield players would make quite a difference to any team if there is a big difference in quality - it's almost a third of the outfield team. It's not just about the eleven on the pitch though. It's also about the players who haven't been drafted into the squad at all when they should have been long ago. Coleman, Reid, McCarthy, Stokes to name a few. The ignorance of these players and countless others are not the actions of somebody building for the future, meanwhile the performances of the present are leaving a lot to be desired. I will support the team regardless of how they do but that doesn't mean the manager shouldn't be questioned.
I don't doubt we did better in Trap's first campaign than Stan's. But just because we did better in the last campaign than the one before does not mean we overachieved. If you overachieve you do better than you set out to do. We set out to qualify for the World Cup but we didn't so, if anything, we underachieved. Simple as that.
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67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 5:31pm
yapster wrote:
Jokerman wrote:
It's a myth that we are overachieving with Trapattoni. A monkey could manage a team to beat Armenia 1-0 and draw with teams like Montenegro and Slovakia. That loss to Russia allied with the performance against Andorra are just as eye opening as any bad result we had under Kerr and Staunton. |
Spot on |
Not spot on at all.
We lost and drew with Cyprus under Stan, not to mention San Marino. But for a very fortuitous home draw with Cyprus, we would have finished fifth in this group. We failed to put away Israel twice under Kerr. We finished in fourth place in the group under Kerr.
I'm thoroughly and utterly amazed at how short the memories are of some of you here contributing to this thread.
Also. Is this the same Montenegro that are currently top of group G? Containing Two WC last 16 teams, England & Switzerland, and Bulgaria & Wales?
And the same Slovakia that got to the last 16 of the recent WC.
And the same Armenia that have just beaten same said WC last 16 side?
Thought so. Keep digging. It's getting deeper and deeper.
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Posted By: Jokerman
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 5:53pm
Stoked Up wrote:
yapster wrote:
Jokerman wrote:
It's a myth that we are overachieving with Trapattoni. A monkey could manage a team to beat Armenia 1-0 and draw with teams like Montenegro and Slovakia. That loss to Russia allied with the performance against Andorra are just as eye opening as any bad result we had under Kerr and Staunton. |
Spot on |
Not spot on at all.
We lost and drew with Cyprus under Stan, not to mention San Marino. But for a very fortuitous home draw with Cyprus, we would have finished fifth in this group. We failed to put away Israel twice under Kerr. We finished in fourth place in the group under Kerr.
I'm thoroughly and utterly amazed at how short the memories are of some of you here contributing to this thread.
Also. Is this the same Montenegro that are currently top of group G? Containing Two WC last 16 teams, England & Switzerland, and Bulgaria & Wales?
And the same Slovakia that got to the last 16 of the recent WC.
And the same Armenia that have just beaten same said WC last 16 side?
Thought so. Keep digging. It's getting deeper and deeper.
|
You can't stand it that someone disagrees with you and agrees with me. We have been played off the park in every single match under Trapattoni bar a couple of meaningless friendlies and Paris. We have benefited from fortuitous refereeing decisions in several important games. We still haven't ended our rotten run against big teams and modern France and Italy are a hell of a lot worse than other big teams we faced under Kerr and Staunton. The bottom line is that Trapattoni is being paid a kings ransom to manage Ireland and is making a balls out of it. We didn't qualify for the World Cup because of bad decision making on his part and now we will have a mountain to climb by the time we travel to Russia during this campaign. Keep blathering on about Kerr and Staunton. Trap's results have been just as bad as Kerr and Staunton is neither here nor there. We are a pain in the ass to watch under Trap and we could tolerate it if there was a light at the end of the tunnel but there isn't. Kilbane still in the team, a pedestrian midfield, players in the team on reputations. We're going round in circles.
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"I will just say one thing: players born in a country should play for their own country." Gaetano D'Agostino
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:01pm
trapped wrote:
If you overachieve you do better than you set out to do. We set out to qualify for the World Cup but we didn't so, if anything, we underachieved. Simple as that. |
This argument is getting ridiculously circular.
We recovered some pride and dignity and a return to at least finishing second in groups, after the disasterous campaigns by Stan and to a lesser extent Kerr.
As I've pointed out in an earlier post, despite having vastly superior sides over the past 23 years than the current one, we still couldn't win a group since 1987, either.
Losing the playoff by such a narrow and unjust margin only served to highlight the progress made, but you and others here are choosing to ignore this. I cannot see why. What more evidence do you need?
Quite frankly, I'm tired of this cantankerous campaign against Trap in mid term, cranked up by the home defeat against top seed, Russia and mainly from people who clearly never wanted him in the first place or to stay on after the last campaign.
We're not like the English. Although, some here are guilty as charged of the same knee jerk reactions that their media continuously make.
The man has been given the job to see us through this campaign. Keep the faith. I'll still hopeful that we'll qualify next year and if it takes another playoff, be happy that we are at least getting thus far and not finishing fourth or fifth in groups.
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:10pm
Jokerman wrote:
The bottom line is that Trapattoni is being paid a kings ransom to manage Ireland and is making a balls out of it. |
Money has feck all to do with it. If you're begrudging him the money, I can see where you're coming from, but don't agree.
Keep blathering on about Kerr and Staunton. Trap's results have been just as bad as Kerr and Staunton is neither here nor there. |
They're not.
| We are a pain in the ass to watch under Trap and we could tolerate it if there was a light at the end of the tunnel but there isn't. |
We're a pain in the ass to watch, because he has made us very hard to beat. I won't deny it is defensive and not very easy on the eye, but neither was Charlton's style either and look where that got us.
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Posted By: Stoked Up
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2010 at 6:20pm
Jokerman wrote:
You can't stand it that someone disagrees with you and agrees with me. |
Should such juvenile rubbish ever befall me, I'll give up posting here.
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