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Players no longer up to standard

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Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pipkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by danger here danger here wrote:

You'd be mad to get rid of Walters. Always capable of grabbing a goal for us when needed, the kind of player we might well need in Georgia. Love or hate Whelan, he's got tonnes of experience via Trap and in such a transitional team is someone you want in the squad at least, ditto St Ledger and Green to an extent. People forget the likes of Ray Houghton weren't great for their clubs and yet did it when it mattered in a green shirt. 

Like Whelan....who excels at international levelConfused 

St Ledger has played 1 competitive match in the past year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StephenHendrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 10:24pm
Wouldn't have McShane in the team but he's not a bad back up. Any faults are exaggerated. O'Dea has rarely put a foot wrong. Wouldn't have Sammon in the team - and he was poor in the Austria game - but he looked decent enough in other games.

Has Walters proven himself in the PL? He's a Pulis player, the fan aren't particularly enamoured with him, lost his place in the team recently and Stoke looked a lot more fluid without him.

His goalscoring record also very poor - for all everyone criticises Doyle.

I wouldn't have in the team - definitely not the wing - but he's probably worthy of a squad place.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by StephenHendrick StephenHendrick wrote:

Wouldn't have McShane in the team but he's not a bad back up. Any faults are exaggerated. O'Dea has rarely put a foot wrong. Wouldn't have Sammon in the team - and he was poor in the Austria game - but he looked decent enough in other games.

Has Walters proven himself in the PL? He's a Pulis player, the fan aren't particularly enamoured with him, lost his place in the team recently and Stoke looked a lot more fluid without him.

His goalscoring record also very poor - for all everyone criticises Doyle.

I wouldn't have in the team - definitely not the wing - but he's probably worthy of a squad place.

 
 
McShane is an accident waiting to happen, O'Dea is a hoof merchant and Sammon is dire.
 
Confused
 
I think over 100 PL apperances will suggest otherwise, not to mention he played more than 3/4 of Stokes league games under Hughes during the 13/14 season so he's hardly just a "Pulis player" .
 
Walters has never been an out an out striker ala Robbie Keane. He gets deployed on the wing more often than not be it with Ireland or Stoke, hence the poor return in goals to games.
 
Doyle was struggling to score league goals in League 1 ffs.


Edited by Green Devil - 02 Jun 2014 at 10:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEWHEELER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 10:48pm
The likes Ray Houghton wasn't great for his club?

Did you actually see him play at club level? Jesus what a comment....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by StephenHendrick StephenHendrick wrote:

Wouldn't have McShane in the team but he's not a bad back up. Any faults are exaggerated. O'Dea has rarely put a foot wrong. Wouldn't have Sammon in the team - and he was poor in the Austria game - but he looked decent enough in other games.

Has Walters proven himself in the PL? He's a Pulis player, the fan aren't particularly enamoured with him, lost his place in the team recently and Stoke looked a lot more fluid without him.

His goalscoring record also very poor - for all everyone criticises Doyle.

I wouldn't have in the team - definitely not the wing - but he's probably worthy of a squad place.


 
Judging by the number of games he played this season,I'd say he must be a Mark Hughes player as well.I don't think he should be starting every game by any means but he's easily worthy of his place in the squad.
 
Do you believe Sammon should be higher up the pecking order than Walters?
 
 
 


Edited by Boban - 02 Jun 2014 at 10:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StephenHendrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 10:56pm
Doyle played on the wing for the majority of his Championship and L1 games for Wolves but that didn't save him from opprobrium here.

Re Walters: just go Oatcake and see what people who watch him every week think of him and by your logic, Kevin Kilbane must be one of the best International left backs ever because he started 100 consecutive games.

Walters is a workrate player. He'll run all day so he is a manager's dream in that regard. Going forward he offers nothing on the wing. He might have a role if we are hanging on to a lead or we are set up negatively. Up front, he's not a good finisher, lacks pace and isn't that good in the air.

I think McShane's reputation precedes him really. Dread to think what the reaction would have been if he pulled a Richie Keogh in a Playoff final.

Edit: No I wouldn't have Sammon ahead of Walters. I placed Walters in the demote list because he is a regular starter or usually first off the bench. Imo he shouldn't be.

Sammon hasn't even featured recently so you can't even demote him.


Edited by StephenHendrick - 02 Jun 2014 at 10:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by StephenHendrick StephenHendrick wrote:

Doyle played on the wing for the majority of his Championship and L1 games for Wolves but that didn't save him from opprobrium here.

Re Walters: just go Oatcake and see what people who watch him every week think of him and by your logic, Kevin Kilbane must be one of the best International left backs ever because he started 100 consecutive games.

Walters is a workrate player. He'll run all day so he is a manager's dream in that regard. Going forward he offers nothing on the wing. He might have a role if we are hanging on to a lead or we are set up negatively. Up front, he's not a good finisher, lacks pace and isn't that good in the air.

I think McShane's reputation precedes him really. Dread to think what the reaction would have been if he pulled a Richie Keogh in a Playoff final.

Edit: No I wouldn't have Sammon ahead of Walters. I placed Walters in the demote list because he is a regular starter or usually first off the bench. Imo he shouldn't be.

Sammon hasn't even featured recently so you can't even demote him.
 
Why are you putting words in my mouth Confused What has Kilbane got to do with this argument? You said is Walters a PL standard player? Well seeing as he has played top flight football for the past 3 or 4 seasons, then yes he is of the required standard. What has being the worlds best left back got to do with anything Confused
 
If you actually read my comments, I clearly stated Walters is an average player?
 
Based on what exactly? The only reason he doesn't make too many mistakes for Hull is because they play with 3 centre halves, see him playing right back for Ireland and theres a different player.
 
Sammon was still called up for the Italy game though, so he is in MON thoughts.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RogerMilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 7:22am
Originally posted by danger here danger here wrote:

People forget the likes of Ray Houghton weren't great for their clubs and yet did it when it mattered in a green shirt. 
 
 
people certainly do forget that , because its simply not the case,  he was brilliant at liverpool FFS very good at villa too and was getting old at palace but still played some great ball.
 
dont be talking dung now.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony grealish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 11:27am
Originally posted by danger here danger here wrote:

You'd be mad to get rid of Walters. Always capable of grabbing a goal for us when needed, the kind of player we might well need in Georgia. Love or hate Whelan, he's got tonnes of experience via Trap and in such a transitional team is someone you want in the squad at least, ditto St Ledger and Green to an extent. People forget the likes of Ray Houghton weren't great for their clubs and yet did it when it mattered in a green shirt. 


What a ridiculous, utterly bizarre thing to say.LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fochie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 12:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gashley Grimes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by danger here danger here wrote:

You'd be mad to get rid of Walters. Always capable of grabbing a goal for us when needed, the kind of player we might well need in Georgia. Love or hate Whelan, he's got tonnes of experience via Trap and in such a transitional team is someone you want in the squad at least, ditto St Ledger and Green to an extent. People forget the likes of Ray Houghton weren't great for their clubs and yet did it when it mattered in a green shirt

The same Ray Houghton that won a league cup with unfashionable Oxford Utd, that won the C'ship and FA Cup with Liverpool and came second in the league with Aston Villa and won a league cup medal with Villa.Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rainpaulo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 2:12pm
A lot of bluffers on this site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by rainpaulo rainpaulo wrote:

A lot of bluffers on this site.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StephenHendrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 3:08pm
A lot of people probably think they're astute than Oscar Garcia, Roberto Martinez, Steve McClaren and Steve Bruce when it comes to lads like McShane and Sammon.

McShane is sh*te! Rabble rabble rabble rabble! My Granny has a better first touch than Sammon! Rabble rabble rabble rabble!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoked Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 3:13pm
Walters has lost his way at Stoke, but has been mostly fine for us and is just behind Long in the pecking order. Not sure how Roy Keane will get on with him after the fallout at Ipswich.

Whelan will likely keep his place until someone better comes along. From what I've seen so far, Meylor is not much of an improvement.
Hendrick has made a promising start and if he continues his progression will hopefully step up.

LB is such a problem area I wont be at all surprised if Ward, despite his limitations, hangs on to the jersey.

Anyway, we're too small to be discarding players. Any player playing in the EPL is likely to be good enough for our squads. As it is, we're trawling lower divisions more frequently these days. 


Edited by Stoked Up - 03 Jun 2014 at 3:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danger here Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 11:24pm

Re my point using Houghton above perhaps I should have been clearer. We all know he had a decent career but the point I was trying to make is that a few weeks before he scored in Giants Stadium he was sitting on the bench as an unused sub when Villa won the Coca Cola Cup. Ditto Alan McLaughlin, ditto Matt Holland. McAteer wasn't even playing at all afaik when he scored against Holland. 

We need as many options as possible. That doesn't mean we should be starting Sammon but it means we need to consider our resources. 2nd seeds or not, we are at a similar level as the likes of Israel, Norway, Austria or Hungary and going backwards and until such a time as the FAI or govt invest seriously over 10-15 years in the academic side of football we are going to be a team of yesteryear. Some lads on here still seem to think it's 1993 I get the impression. There's no Terry Phelan booting down the wing any more lads. 

We put all our proverbial eggs in the one basket (England's leagues) and while that was alright in the pre Premier League times, but in the last 15 years the influx of young foreign players in England has put all the home nations on the backfoot in the long term. In addition, "weaker" teams are not a soft touch anymore and have come on a lot in the last 10 years.

People here saying Ward is sh!te or Long can't finish his dinner don't seem to realize there is nothing else there after Robbie is gone. O'Dea is actually playing in a higher standard leaque than most of the squad yet some consider him to be useless. I'm not a great fan of Whelan but christ he's been involved in crucial games like Moscow and Paris plus Euro 2012 yet the populist front of Judea here is saying he should never play again, instead bring in the imaginary Irish next Jan Ceulemans and Denis Irwin II to replace Ward. 

Laughable reading here at times. 



Edited by danger here - 03 Jun 2014 at 11:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 11:42pm
Originally posted by StephenHendrick StephenHendrick wrote:

A lot of people probably think they're astute than Oscar Garcia, Roberto Martinez, Steve McClaren and Steve Bruce when it comes to lads like McShane and Sammon.

McShane is sh*te! Rabble rabble rabble rabble! My Granny has a better first touch than Sammon! Rabble rabble rabble rabble!
An astute Oscar Garcia LOL 
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