Players need to look at themselves too

Playing long ball prevents not so technically gifted teams like Ireland from getting stuck in that "defensive shell" against more gifted opposition.

Watch a top premier league side play a weak side that attempt to play football and you'll see this - a game of attack versus defence for 90 minutes, in which any break by the weaker team is soon quelled and this continues.

This simple long ball tactic seriously reduces/eliminates this developing - a prime example being hoof ball Liverpool under Rafa Benitez that simply stopped other, often stronger teams from playing for large parts of games, and developed simple chances up front by sending it directly to people like Torres/Gerrard that could possibly create something - similar to Ireland with Keane/McGeady/(Duff).

Less technically gifted players can then stay behind the ball and press high up the pitch, playing long ball to "target" players that may create something, but if not the ball will come back to these players who will send it up again and repeat the cycle - this takes long periods out of a match and often results in low scoring games.

However the other team is prevented from playing/demoralised in that time, and it gives the weaker team something vital in life - as well as football - control.

Say what you want about Ireland last night. But we were in control for more - or - less all of that game - as well as games with more technically gifted opponents i.e. Slovakia

If a goal had of been created from a half chance we created early on, no one would be questioning today. Their goal was a good header and something very difficult to defend - would another team defend it?

People say Whelan can't play a five yard pass, then wonder why we don't encourage passing football more! Baffling. This team has a belief about it, it hasn't had for a long time. A belief, I believe got us those to goals five minutes from the final whistle.

Edited by GINN - 09 Sep 2012 at 1:09am

GINN wrote: Playing long ball prevents not so technically gifted teams like Ireland from getting stuck in that "defensive shell" against more gifted opposition. Watch a top premier league side play a weak side that attempt to play football and you'll see this - a game of attack versus defence for 90 minutes, in which any break by the weaker team is soon quelled and this continues. This simple long ball tactic seriously reduces/eliminates this developing - a prime example being hoof ball Liverpool under Rafa Benitez that simply stopped other, often stronger teams from playing for large parts of games, and developed simple chances up front by sending it directly to people like Torres/Gerrard that could possibly create something - similar to Ireland with Keane/McGeady/(Duff). Less technically gifted players can then stay behind the ball and press high up the pitch, playing long ball to "target" players that may create something, but if not the ball will come back to these players who will send it up again and repeat the cycle - this takes long periods out of a match and often results in low scoring games. However the other team is prevented from playing/demoralised in that time, and it gives the weaker team something vital in life - as well as football - control. Say what you want about Ireland last night. But we were in control for more - or - less all of that game - as well as games with more technically gifted opponents i.e. Slovakia If a goal had of been created from a half chance we created early on, no one would be questioning today. Their goal was a good header and something very difficult to defend - would another team defend it? People say Whelan can't play a five yard pass, then wonder why we don't encourage passing football more! Baffling. This team has a belief about it, it hasn't had for a long time. A belief, I believe got us those to goals five minutes from the final whistle.

Can't agree with any of that to be honest. I would suggest that if we are going to persist with the long ball, as we did under Charlton for example, we do need to press much higher up the pitch. Admittedly we had far better players available to us under Charlton but nowadays not only do we concede possession very easily, we also concede space and even moderately technically competent teams can exploit this.

I disagree that we controlled the game last night, or the game against Slovakia that you mention (not the home one anyway). Our inability to retain possession and our tendency to concede space leaves us vulnerable against decent sides and performances such as those against Russia and the 3 in the Euro's is what ensues. This style of football has a limited life span in my opinion and will get found out sooner rather than later.

GINN wrote: Playing long ball prevents not so technically gifted teams like Ireland These guys are professional, they are not under 12s trying to win the Mayo Shield. They are all technically good enough to pass the ball and recieve the ball. It isn't rocket science, it's rule 1 of how to play football.  from getting stuck in that "defensive shell" against more gifted opposition. I don't know what you mean here. Watch a top premier league side play a weak side that attempt to play football and you'll see this - a game of attack versus defence for 90 minutes, in which any break by the weaker team is soon quelled and this continues. This simple long ball tactic seriously reduces/eliminates this developing - a prime example being hoof ball Liverpool under Rafa Benitez that simply stopped other, often stronger teams from playing for large parts of games, and developed simple chances up front by sending it directly to people like Torres/Gerrard that could possibly create something - similar to Ireland with Keane/McGeady/(Duff). Less technically gifted players can then stay behind the ball and press high up the pitch, playing long ball to "target" players that may Yes, may create something. Long ball is a ridiculous tactic, and I genuinely believe it was taken to new lengths last night. 3 seconds into the game Ward smashed the ball 70 yards before a "target" even had time to get there. Total nonsense. What it says to me is that Trap, who I have defended for a long, long time, has absolutely zero faith in these players, because that football last night was absolutely disgusting. create something, but if not the ball will come back to these players who will send it up again and repeat the cycle - this takes long periods out of a match and often results in low scoring games. Yes, like beating one of the worst teams in world football 2-1 in the dying seconds. However the other team is prevented from playing/demoralised in that time, and it gives the weaker team something vital in life - as well as football - control. Playing hoofball against a strong team will not give you control. Try playing long ball against Spain, Italy, Germany, Holland, and they will batter you 9 times out of 10. Giving the ball back to the opposition constantly is not a tactic. Say what you want about Ireland last night. But we were in control for more - or - less all of that game - as well as games with more technically gifted opponents i.e. Slovakia  Slovakia are more technically gifted than Ireland? How? Why? If a goal had of been created from a half chance we created early on, no one would be questioning today. I disagree. Their goal was a good header and something very difficult to defend A free header - would another team defend it? Yes People say Whelan can't play a five yard pass, then wonder why we don't encourage passing football more! Baffling.  I can't speak for other people. What I do believe is that Andrews and Whelan, particularly Andrews, is a far better football than he gets credit for, and that is largely due to what he is required to do under instruction from Trap. Of course he can play 5 yard passes, he is a pro footballer for God's sake. This team has a belief about it, it hasn't had for a long time. A belief, I believe got us those to goals five minutes from the final whistle. A belief that we could win against one of the worst teams in the world. If that is the standard the national team is setting, then we might as well just stop football here altogether. It is absolutely appalling. Schoolboy teams up and down this country are being urged to do the exact opposite of what happened last night. Why should they? That's all we build them up for, apparently. Nobody is asking Ireland to play tiki-taka football, but there is a middle ground. Playing out from the back is an option when your back 4 has an entire half to work with for God's sake, at least then you know you will retain possession. I can't imagine what the team talk was like. Something along the lines of "Knock it up there and see what happens".

GINN wrote: I'm not too sure what ya did with my post there Mark. In fairness to TrapJunior he took in my point, analysed it and could see some of my logic but disagreed. You on the other hand said in the first few lines that you didn't know what I was talking about. Yet you continued to undermine my points individually with quick, one line retorts! Just broke it down and responded with my opinion. You sound like you're more interested in the way we play our football and the way you believe the game should be played Not more interested, no. But there is no reason we can't get results without resorting to what we saw last night. - you work with youth players, yeah?... wouldn't want them witnessing such a bad example of how to play football. We had a game today, and my players were discussing the match. They were disgusted. It certainly won't do football any favours in Ireland when you hear kids talking about how awful the team are to watch. Personally, I'm more interested in the results. I feel this system is effective and has shown so. Again, I believe last night was the worst I have seen us play in donkies years. We had no interest in doing anything else other than hoofing it. Maybe now you've had time to cool off and assess the situation without too much emotion.

Trap junior wrote: Why do I see him regularly under little pressure misplace a 5 or 10 yard pass routinely?

Stoked Up wrote: tetsujin1979 wrote:   trapforpresident wrote: Interesting article in todays examiner by k andrews ,he says trap tells full back to play ball into midfield if its on ,not to play long he goes to defend trap .  the article is online here: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/few-positives-but-we-still-won-206938.html  Doesn't surprise me at all. The standard of central midfielder available to us is pretty poor and is unable to complete the task on a regular basis, either by not showing for the ball or giving it away cheaply when they do get it. Take any two from Whelan, Andrews, McCarthy, Gibson, Fahey, Meylor. Would any of these get into our centre midfield c. 1980-2002? Don't think so.