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Players eligible for Ireland

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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IrishCanadian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 10:04am
Originally posted by DeclanDaly DeclanDaly wrote:

Originally posted by IrishCanadian IrishCanadian wrote:

Originally posted by wexfordman1 wexfordman1 wrote:

Originally posted by IrishCanadian IrishCanadian wrote:

Which new rule makes him eligible now exactly? 
Allowed to switch back to Ireland
How does that make him eligible though? That rule change is regarding players who have made less than 3 senior caps under the age of 21 no longer being cap tied. That has zero relevance to the Johansson situation. 

He was deemed ineligible because he has played in official youth competitions for Luxembourg thus requiring him to file a one time switch. To file the switch, the rules state he has to have been eligible to play for Ireland at the time of his Luxembourg youth cap. The argument FIFA said was he wasn’t an Irish citizen so wasn’t eligible for Ireland at the time of his official Luxembourg youth cap. What you’ve linked makes no mention of this rule or it being changed. 

You don’t need to be an Irish citizen to be eligible to play for Ireland. He was eligible when he played for Luxembourg because his maternal grandparents are Irish (I believe, that might be an assumption, but it’s highly likely that they are). His mother is Irish, but was born in England.

I’ll say it’s possibly complicated by the fact he’s played for 3 teams not 2. Hopefully we win out. Been over 2 years since he played for anyone at any level
You do need to be a citizen to play for Ireland and he wasn't at the time of his official Luxembourg youth caps. Which rendered him ineligible for Ireland as declared by FIFA. That is literally the reason he was deemed ineligible in the first place. 
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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IrishCanadian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 10:09am
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Just to clear this up - he thought he was eligible for Ireland previously as his mother (and grandparents on his mother's side) were Irish. However, it turned out his mother was born in England.

It was still thought that he was ok through the grandparents but the Luxembourg FA picked up on wording in the regulations that said that he had to be an Irish citizen when he played competitively for Luxembourg. If his mother had been born in Ireland he would have automatically been an Irish citizen, but she wasn't and he hadn't gone through the foreign birth register process via his grandparents at that stage, so he wasn't actually an Irish citizen when he played competitively for Luxembourg. This made him ineligible for us once he took the competitive caps for Luxembourg.

The new rules introduced last autumn brought in a number of changes and clarifications. The main one about three caps and age 21 etc is posted a few posts up. But that's not the one that relates to Johansson. There was another change that clarified that if a player has played underage competitively for one country and wants to change to another, he no longer needs to have been a citizen of the new country at the time he played for the old country. This is the change that makes him eligible for us again.

There is one other caveat though - you can only make one switch. It had been reported that Johansson had decided to switch to a third country, Sweden. If that paperwork had gone through he would be ineligible for us as he had used his switch and couldn't switch again. However, according to the man himself this week, he hasn't actually switched to Sweden. If that is correct he can still play for us.

Hopefully he has since gone and gotten his Irish passport, as the Foreign birth register process is lengthy, especially at the moment with Covid and Brexit. If he has done, things would hopefully be relatively straightforward if he wants to switch to us and hopefully the FAI would help with the paperwork to FIFA. If he hasn't done the foreign birth register process yet he won't be playing under 21 for us I think, because it will take too long to get all the paperwork sorted.

Having said all that, while he does appear to be eligible under the new rules, he also needs to actually want to declare for us. It sounded from the interview he gave that he was still open to all three countries at this point. He probably needs to make that decision first of all.
Do you have an actual quote for the bolded or where in the new laws it states that? I've yet to actually find where it says that anywhere. 

A former Brazilian youth player has recently expressed interest in playing for Canada but like Johansson, he wasn't a Canadian citizen at the time of his official Brazil youth caps which would render him ineligible unless the rules regarding this specific point have been changed. I just can't find anywhere that mentions this area when talking of the law changes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 10:31am
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/gv5axxtvu2aydszqfiw6.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj7tJ3C7InvAhWRN8AKHWByBfgQFjAAegQIBBAD&usg=AOvVaw37R-gW2wJTvHJkziJ58jfT

This is the relevant document. Johansson now qualifies under Article 9, Section 2, Subsection b.

With regard to the additional requirements set out in part iv of subsection b, he qualifies under Article 7, Section 1, Subsection c (grandparent born in Ireland).

I realise that's a very technical answer written in legalese, but that's the answer.


Edited by You Tell Me - 27 Feb 2021 at 10:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeclanDaly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 12:44pm
Bit of a headache, that document, but I supposed Johansson would fit this scenario:

b) the player:
i) was fielded in a match in an official competition at any level (with the exception of “A” international level) in any kind of football for his current association;
ii) at the time of being fielded for his first match in an official competition in any kind of football for his current association, he did not hold the nationality of the association which he wishes to represent.

 iii) at the time of being fielded for his last match in an official competition in any kind of football for his current association, he had not turned 21 years old; and
iv) meets any of the requirements provided in article 6 or article 7.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 2:30pm
Correct. Played at underage, not senior; wasn't an Irish citizen; hasn't played for Lux after his 21st birthday (he's 20); grandparent born in Ireland.

So he now qualifies for us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fozz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Having said all that, while he does appear to be eligible under the new rules, he also needs to actually want to declare for us. It sounded from the interview he gave that he was still open to all three countries at this point. He probably needs to make that decision first of all.


And with the U21's comp starting in March, you'd think a young lad would want to look to be featuring in one of the squads if they'd have him.  To hear him say he hasn't thought about it since moving to Spain seems odd after the lengths he went to beforehand to declare for us.

I'm not suggesting he'd get into our U21 squad at this stage but he's just turned 20 so will have (if I am correct) one more U21s campaign in him but after that, it's senior caps or no caps so I'd not be hanging around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geansaí Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 2:56pm
There is potentially an element of him waiting to see how his career progresses.
For example if he is in fact eligible for us and he played a couple of u21 games now, he may never get to senior level if his career doesn't develop and he would have lost any chance of playing for Luxembourg.

Why make a decision now at underage level when the senior game is the goal


Edited by geansaí - 27 Feb 2021 at 2:57pm
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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IrishCanadian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/gv5axxtvu2aydszqfiw6.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj7tJ3C7InvAhWRN8AKHWByBfgQFjAAegQIBBAD&usg=AOvVaw37R-gW2wJTvHJkziJ58jfT

This is the relevant document. Johansson now qualifies under Article 9, Section 2, Subsection b.

With regard to the additional requirements set out in part iv of subsection b, he qualifies under Article 7, Section 1, Subsection c (grandparent born in Ireland).

I realise that's a very technical answer written in legalese, but that's the answer.
Thanks very much, that’s exactly what I was looking for. 

That is one hot mess of a document though. Sect. 9.2 A refers to having to hold nationality at the time of the youth cap and then sect 9.2 B refers to not holding nationality at that time. Rendering Sect. 9.2.A meaningless, so why even leave it in there. 

Would suggest then that Auro jr will actually be eligible for Canada if he gets citizenship then too. 


Edited by IrishCanadian - 27 Feb 2021 at 3:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeclanDaly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by IrishCanadian IrishCanadian wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/gv5axxtvu2aydszqfiw6.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj7tJ3C7InvAhWRN8AKHWByBfgQFjAAegQIBBAD&usg=AOvVaw37R-gW2wJTvHJkziJ58jfT

This is the relevant document. Johansson now qualifies under Article 9, Section 2, Subsection b.

With regard to the additional requirements set out in part iv of subsection b, he qualifies under Article 7, Section 1, Subsection c (grandparent born in Ireland).

I realise that's a very technical answer written in legalese, but that's the answer.
Thanks very much, that’s exactly what I was looking for. 

That is one hot mess of a document though. Sect. 9.2 A refers to having to hold nationality at the time of the youth cap and then sect 9.2 B refers to not holding nationality at that time. Rendering Sect. 9.2.A meaningless, so why even leave it in there. 

Would suggest then that Auro jr will actually be eligible for Canada if he gets citizenship then too. 

It’s not very clear, but I think section A refers to internationals who have played an A or full international 

Section d opens some interesting doors for naturalization. If you lose citizenship for a country because of govt action, I suppose you can play for any other country that will give you citizenship. I wonder if that includes countries that don’t permit dual nationality (like Japan, for instance).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Having said all that, while he does appear to be eligible under the new rules, he also needs to actually want to declare for us. It sounded from the interview he gave that he was still open to all three countries at this point. He probably needs to make that decision first of all.


And with the U21's comp starting in March, you'd think a young lad would want to look to be featuring in one of the squads if they'd have him.  To hear him say he hasn't thought about it since moving to Spain seems odd after the lengths he went to beforehand to declare for us.

I'm not suggesting he'd get into our U21 squad at this stage but he's just turned 20 so will have (if I am correct) one more U21s campaign in him but after that, it's senior caps or no caps so I'd not be hanging around.
This campaign will be Johansson's last one at underage level. Interestingly all three of his countries are in the same qualifying group.
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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nialler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 8:02pm
If I was the lad I would back off international football too. or at least talking about it to press. It has been a huge distraction for him during the most important phase of his career in terms of development. 
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