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Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Fozz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2022 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Nice spot. 

If he had Welsh heritage, he'd be in their senior squad.  They just called up Luke Harris, a 17 year old from the Channel Islands, who has made one EFL appearance for Fulham. 

Could join a long-line of promising dual-eligible players they've tied down as teens.

That's mad alright.
When is the last time we made such a move?
I suppose Ebosele in the last camp, but he'd had a whole season of Championship football under his belt.
Maybe Connell before that back in Mick's tenure, but he'd also had a spell in the Championship.

Harris has featured for Wales from U16 to U19, so he is a known quantity for them, albeit it he has v few caps.

By this metric, we'd have called up the likes of Odubeko, Okoflex and Hodge to senior camps, but none have gotten anywhere near such a call.
Which is no bad thing really...senior callups should be earned.
But there is an arguement for one slot in any squad to be used for promising young talent, regardless of eligibility.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2022 at 3:14pm
"But there is an arguement for one slot in any squad to be used for promising young talent, regardless of eligibility."

I'd agree with that.  

Mick used to do that a lot in the nineties - I remember a callow Richard Dunne being called up, maybe as an 18 year-old in a developmental capacity (even though he wasn't going to play).  Stan did it with Terry Dixon (although his career went the opposite way to Dunne's because of injury)  

In a 23 or 25 or 27 man squad, there must be room for having one or two players who are seen more as prospects than having to deliver immediately on the pitch - though often they'll surprise you and they can.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2022 at 3:33pm
Lee O'Connor would probably be the last one that got capped without any first team experience. Didn't really work out for him.

Wales can call those lads up because they have far less depth than us. But most of them amount to little, if anything they just end up getting overhyped if they play anyway decent in a meaningless friendly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2022 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Lee O'Connor would probably be the last one that got capped without any first team experience. Didn't really work out for him.

Wales can call those lads up because they have far less depth than us. But most of them amount to little, if anything they just end up getting overhyped if they play anyway decent in a meaningless friendly.

Yes, you're correct, Lee O'Connor was probably the last one.  I wouldn't be so disparaging of him though - I believe he played well and got an assist on the night - and, despite his huge number of caps for us at U21 and being captain for so long which gives the impression that he's been around for a long time - he's still very young.  He stalled a little at Celtic (like every other Irish prospect that has gone there), but I wouldn't rule him out - in fact I will not be surprised if he ends up with more senior caps. 

I strongly disagree that the dual-eligible players capped by Wales as teenagers amount to little.  

Many of them end up reach a standard where they play Premier League or even Champions League football, and/or command massive transfer fees.  

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking: 
- Daniel James,  
- Ampadu, 
- Matondo,
- Tyler Roberts,
- Brennan Johnson
- Harry Wilson (born in Wales, but was England eligible)
- David Brooks
- Ben Woodburn  

Many of those players would walk into our team, let alone squad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2022 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Nice spot. 

If he had Welsh heritage, he'd be in their senior squad.  They just called up Luke Harris, a 17 year old from the Channel Islands, who has made one EFL appearance for Fulham. 

Could join a long-line of promising dual-eligible players they've tied down as teens.


That's mad alright.
When is the last time we made such a move?
I suppose Ebosele in the last camp, but he'd had a whole season of Championship football under his belt.
Maybe Connell before that back in Mick's tenure, but he'd also had a spell in the Championship.

Harris has featured for Wales from U16 to U19, so he is a known quantity for them, albeit it he has v few caps.

By this metric, we'd have called up the likes of Odubeko, Okoflex and Hodge to senior camps, but none have gotten anywhere near such a call.
Which is no bad thing really...senior callups should be earned.
But there is an arguement for one slot in any squad to be used for promising young talent, regardless of eligibility.


Even Omobamidele had 8 games for Norwich at the end of the championship season when he got brought along to the training camp at 18 going on 19. And you could argue that he benefited from Nathan Collins being injured.

Training camps should really be used to bring young lads in like Omobamidele last year, Mick with Luca Connell though I think he was called up into the squad, and MON had Rice in training in 2017 before Mexico friendly and draw with Austria.

U21s have no games in November I'd assume so why not have some of them in training like Ferguson. Maybe Justin Ferizaj as the U19 player impressing for his club in Europe and the LOI season will be over.



Edited by J89 - 14 Sep 2022 at 4:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2022 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Lee O'Connor would probably be the last one that got capped without any first team experience. Didn't really work out for him.

Wales can call those lads up because they have far less depth than us. But most of them amount to little, if anything they just end up getting overhyped if they play anyway decent in a meaningless friendly.

Yes, you're correct, Lee O'Connor was probably the last one.  I wouldn't be so disparaging of him though - I believe he played well and got an assist on the night - and, despite his huge number of caps for us at U21 and being captain for so long which gives the impression that he's been around for a long time - he's still very young.  He stalled a little at Celtic (like every other Irish prospect that has gone there), but I wouldn't rule him out - in fact I will not be surprised if he ends up with more senior caps. 

I strongly disagree that the dual-eligible players capped by Wales as teenagers amount to little.  

Many of them end up reach a standard where they play Premier League or even Champions League football, and/or command massive transfer fees.  

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking: 
- Daniel James,  
- Ampadu, 
- Matondo,
- Tyler Roberts,
- Brennan Johnson
- Harry Wilson (born in Wales, but was England eligible)
- David Brooks
- Ben Woodburn  

Many of those players would walk into our team, let alone squad.

I will be very surprised if Lee O'Connor earns further senior caps, he doesnt have the pace to play as a modern full/wing back and I dont think he's good enough on the ball to earn a spot in central midfield. Tbh he hasnt shone in any of the U21 games Ive watched either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Snrub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2022 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Nice spot. 

If he had Welsh heritage, he'd be in their senior squad.  They just called up Luke Harris, a 17 year old from the Channel Islands, who has made one EFL appearance for Fulham. 

Could join a long-line of promising dual-eligible players they've tied down as teens.

That's mad alright.
When is the last time we made such a move?
I suppose Ebosele in the last camp, but he'd had a whole season of Championship football under his belt.
Maybe Connell before that back in Mick's tenure, but he'd also had a spell in the Championship.

Harris has featured for Wales from U16 to U19, so he is a known quantity for them, albeit it he has v few caps.

By this metric, we'd have called up the likes of Odubeko, Okoflex and Hodge to senior camps, but none have gotten anywhere near such a call.
Which is no bad thing really...senior callups should be earned.
But there is an arguement for one slot in any squad to be used for promising young talent, regardless of eligibility.


The difference here is that Odubeko, Okoflex & Ebosele are Irish born with Connell being the exception
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2022 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Lee O'Connor would probably be the last one that got capped without any first team experience. Didn't really work out for him.

Wales can call those lads up because they have far less depth than us. But most of them amount to little, if anything they just end up getting overhyped if they play anyway decent in a meaningless friendly.

Yes, you're correct, Lee O'Connor was probably the last one.  I wouldn't be so disparaging of him though - I believe he played well and got an assist on the night - and, despite his huge number of caps for us at U21 and being captain for so long which gives the impression that he's been around for a long time - he's still very young.  He stalled a little at Celtic (like every other Irish prospect that has gone there), but I wouldn't rule him out - in fact I will not be surprised if he ends up with more senior caps. 

I strongly disagree that the dual-eligible players capped by Wales as teenagers amount to little.  

Many of them end up reach a standard where they play Premier League or even Champions League football, and/or command massive transfer fees.  

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking: 
- Daniel James,  
- Ampadu, 
- Matondo,
- Tyler Roberts,
- Brennan Johnson
- Harry Wilson (born in Wales, but was England eligible)
- David Brooks
- Ben Woodburn  

Many of those players would walk into our team, let alone squad.

Would they though, or are a lot of them just overhyped? I like Brennan Johnson alright, and Harry Wilson is decent enough, but not exactly a developing talent at this point. The likes of him, James, Woodburn and Ampadu have all been given opportunities at top clubs and have come up well short. Woodburn wasn't a regular starter for Hearts last year, Matondo has started poorly in Glasgow, Roberts is not highly rated and Ampadu will probably find his level at Cardiff or Swansea in the end - he has been no more than average on his (many) loans. Then there's others you haven't mentioned like Matthew Smith, Dylan Levitt, Mark Harris among others.

To me it seems like, if anything, the Wales call ups have maybe helped push some of these players into the frame at big clubs or initially helped get them transfers (e.g. James), but eventually the reality of the limitations of their abilities has caught up with them and they've had to move back to a lower level. I'm not sure we have much to gain from throwing senior caps at Evan Ferguson or Joe Hodge or Justin Ferizaj or whoever at this point, just let them develop at their own pace and call them in if and when they've earned a place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2022 at 5:13pm
We aren't very proactive and we haven't been in years, it's nothing new. I've said for ages that where possible, we should have one or two young players brought along in every squad. The upside is huge (you end up with a player who improves the team for years to come), and the downside is comparatively tiny (ie it's inconsequential if the "23rd man" in a squad doesn't make a big impact, they were never likely to be needed in the games anyway).
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fozz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2022 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by Mr. Snrub Mr. Snrub wrote:

...

The difference here is that Odubeko, Okoflex & Ebosele are Irish born with Connell being the exception


To be fair, my point is they are all dual-eligible (or more).
So if the Welsh MO is to tie them down, then these guys all fall into a similar target demographic.

I don't believe any should be called up, by the way, just expressing that they would be comparable call-ups to what we see Wales doing.

But they should all be in the next 21's squad, and I'd say at least two won't be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zizu Kilbane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2022 at 11:07am
Originally posted by ripbomb ripbomb wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/270518322972616/posts/pfbid02ueCb5Ui3say
Here's an interview with a realtion in the Roscommon Hearld 

Article seems to indicate his great-grand father is Irish, or am I reading that wrong 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2022 at 11:13am
Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

Originally posted by ripbomb ripbomb wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/270518322972616/posts/pfbid02ueCb5Ui3say
Here's an interview with a realtion in the Roscommon Hearld 

Article seems to indicate his great-grand father is Irish, or am I reading that wrong 

It says his grandfather left Roscommon in the 1940's, no reference to great grandparents that I can see.
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amccarten313 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2022 at 6:30pm
could be famous last words but really dont think we'll miss charlie mccann at all
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Healy52003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 4:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackKat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 11:52pm
Is Lynden Gooch tied to the US team? Can't tell if he has played for them outside of friendlies.

Would be a really good option for us at RWB.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bandwagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 12:07am
Originally posted by BlackKat BlackKat wrote:

Is Lynden Gooch tied to the US team? Can't tell if he has played for them outside of friendlies.

Would be a really good option for us at RWB.


Played one competitive game back in 2016, a World Cup qualifier. Was only 20 at the time, so he should still be eligible to switch AFAIK.


Edited by Bandwagon - 20 Sep 2022 at 12:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Brick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 4:45am
Originally posted by BlackKat BlackKat wrote:

Is Lynden Gooch tied to the US team? Can't tell if he has played for them outside of friendlies.

Would be a really good option for us at RWB.
Maybe you're right but playing devil's advocate: is a player incapable of making the USA team since 2016 "a really good option"? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 5:34am
Not happening. Gooch has an English father and Irish mother but was always intent on playing for his native USA as a senior international and the Ireland underage recognition was just a stepping stone for him towards that. He almost moved to Shrewsbury in recent times. I would be more interested in Ireland exploring the possibilities of his Dublin born team mate Dennis Cirkin switching to us from England.
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