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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 2:19pm
Clucking bell! He had no decisions to make in 2016 as he wasn’t tied to any country. Prior to Kosovo being allowed to join FIFA, the player had only played for Switzerland underage and was, as far as I am aware, only eligible for them. Then Kosovo joined and he was eligible for the two nations; he had never played a senior competitive game for Switzerland, meaning his switch did not have a timescale. In 2017 he made his debut for the Swiss, but as it was a friendly he was still entitled to switch to Kosovo should he choose to do so. As it so happens, he chose to switch soon after, but he could have waited five years if he wanted, so long as he didn’t play a senior competitive game for Switzerland.

I suppose we should be grateful that you didn’t mention the Good Friday agreement!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote giveittochristie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Clucking bell! He had no decisions to make in 2016 as he wasn’t tied to any country. Prior to Kosovo being allowed to join FIFA, the player had only played for Switzerland underage and was, as far as I am aware, only eligible for them. Then Kosovo joined and he was eligible for the two nations; he had never played a senior competitive game for Switzerland, meaning his switch did not have a timescale. In 2017 he made his debut for the Swiss, but as it was a friendly he was still entitled to switch to Kosovo should he choose to do so. As it so happens, he chose to switch soon after, but he could have waited five years if he wanted, so long as he didn’t play a senior competitive game for Switzerland.

I suppose we should be grateful that you didn’t mention the Good Friday agreement!
I'll have one last go and then i'll leave it LOL

When this guy was playing competitively for Switzerland u21, he did not have a Kosovan passport. Is this not the argument which is being made against Johansson?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 2:34pm
Johansson was eligible for three passports, all of which he would have had little difficulty obtaining and from three states whose football associations have been long-term members of FIFA. 

Essentially, even if FIFA are completely wrong regarding Johansonn, which may well be the case, it has no comparison with the case you are comparing it to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 2:40pm
Having a passport is not the same as having the nationality. The word used in the FIFA statutes is nationality. Hadergjonaj was always a Kosovan national, even if he hadn't got the passport, by dint of being born with Kosovan parents.

I don't have kids but if I did, they'd be Irish citizens and nationals from the moment of their birth, not when they got their first passport, regardless of where they are born. The argument, in the Johansson case, is that he only became an Irish citizen (as opposed to someone entitled to apply for Irish citizenship) on the date he was entered on the register of foreign births, whereas Hadergjonaj was always a Kosovan national but was also a Swiss national when he made his first appearance for Switzerland, presumably by dint of being born there as the son of Kosovans.

They are not comparable cases, even leaving aside the recent Kosovan membership of FIFA. While I don't know the full ins and outs of Kosovan nationality law, I'm guessing he had the nationality from birth, like the vast majority of countries. Johannson, arguably, didn't have Irish citizenship at birth, merely the right to apply for it.

Then again, nationality and citizenship arguably aren't the same thing either, so Johansson can claim that he had nationality by dint of being the son of an Irish national entitled to claim citizenship as of right, but that he simply didn't have citizenship.


Edited by SuperDave84 - 11 Sep 2019 at 2:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 2:58pm
The argument in the Johannson case is that he was always an Irish national and merely had to apply for citizenship. Simply put, once a valid application was made, there was no discretionary element to it whatsoever. He could not be denied Irish citizenship because the law recognises his entitlement to it, on the basis of his ancestry and nationality. There is a distinction between the two terms - this is reflected in Irish law by the title of the Act - The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act. It would tautological if the words were synonyms and there is a presumption against that. Nationality is an ethnic or racial concept and citizenship is entirely a legal concept. Johansson had Irish nationality before he applied for Irish citizenship, hence his entitlement to citizenship. For example, if I move to a country that does not allow dual citizenship and naturalise there, I may no longer be an Irish citizen but it does not mean I am no longer an Irish national.

That would be the line I would argue, anyway.


Edited by SuperDave84 - 11 Sep 2019 at 2:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Having a passport is not the same as having the nationality. The word used in the FIFA statutes is nationality. Hadergjonaj was always a Kosovan national, even if he hadn't got the passport, by dint of being born with Kosovan parents.

I don't have kids but if I did, they'd be Irish citizens and nationals from the moment of their birth, not when they got their first passport, regardless of where they are born. The argument, in the Johansson case, is that he only became an Irish citizen (as opposed to someone entitled to apply for Irish citizenship) on the date he was entered on the register of foreign births, whereas Hadergjonaj was always a Kosovan national but was also a Swiss national when he made his first appearance for Switzerland, presumably by dint of being born there as the son of Kosovans.

They are not comparable cases, even leaving aside the recent Kosovan membership of FIFA. While I don't know the full ins and outs of Kosovan nationality law, I'm guessing he had the nationality from birth, like the vast majority of countries. Johannson, arguably, didn't have Irish citizenship at birth, merely the right to apply for it.

Then again, nationality and citizenship arguably aren't the same thing either, so Johansson can claim that he had nationality by dint of being the son of an Irish national entitled to claim citizenship as of right, but that he simply didn't have citizenship.

For the purposes FIFA are fulfilling, nationality and citizenship are synonymous. This has been covered previously, the semantical difference holds no water insofar as the intention of this FIFA statute.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 3:16pm
Okay, I was not aware of that. In that case, Johansson could be in some difficulty. There is still an argument that you should be treated as having citizenship if it is simply a matter of applying for it and you cannot be refused it. That is certainly a principle of asylum and immigration law. For example, Irish law says a person born here is an Irish citizenship if they are other stateless. However, if, for example, they were entitled to Swedish citizenship on completion of a pro-forma application that could not be refused, then they may not be entitled to Irish citizenship. Similarly, if you claim asylum as, say, a Turkmenistan citizen in Ireland (and could not go back to Turkmenistan anywhere) but were entitled to apply for Russian citizenship as a matter of right (and would be safe in Russia), then you would not be granted asylum here, regardless of what happened you in Turkmenistan. That would be the case regardless of whether you had Russian citizenship already or not.

Obviously they are very different cases but the central point is the same: the law treats you as having the citizenship of a country if you are entitled to it on a non-discretionary basis, simply upon the appropriate application being made, even if you have not yet made the application.
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We'll just wait and see so
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Having a passport is not the same as having the nationality. The word used in the FIFA statutes is nationality. Hadergjonaj was always a Kosovan national, even if he hadn't got the passport, by dint of being born with Kosovan parents.

I don't have kids but if I did, they'd be Irish citizens and nationals from the moment of their birth, not when they got their first passport, regardless of where they are born. The argument, in the Johansson case, is that he only became an Irish citizen (as opposed to someone entitled to apply for Irish citizenship) on the date he was entered on the register of foreign births, whereas Hadergjonaj was always a Kosovan national but was also a Swiss national when he made his first appearance for Switzerland, presumably by dint of being born there as the son of Kosovans.

They are not comparable cases, even leaving aside the recent Kosovan membership of FIFA. While I don't know the full ins and outs of Kosovan nationality law, I'm guessing he had the nationality from birth, like the vast majority of countries. Johannson, arguably, didn't have Irish citizenship at birth, merely the right to apply for it.

Then again, nationality and citizenship arguably aren't the same thing either, so Johansson can claim that he had nationality by dint of being the son of an Irish national entitled to claim citizenship as of right, but that he simply didn't have citizenship.

For the purposes FIFA are fulfilling, nationality and citizenship are synonymous. This has been covered previously, the semantical difference holds no water insofar as the intention of this FIFA statute.

To recap - apparently the objection to Johannson (and presumably Crowley) being eligible for Ireland is that they "acquired" Irish "nationality" after they played underage for a different country.  (The FIFA statute says such players can not switch).  The suggestion is they acquired this nationality because grandchildren of Irish people are not automatically citizens of Ireland, they need to first register with the Dept of Foreign Affairs on the Foreign Births Register. 

I've looked into this in a bit more detail but don't have time for a longer post now - Dave has basically summarised the position accurately.

With respect, O'Shea's comments are incorrect - nationality and citizenship are subtly but distinctly different concepts in FIFA and in general law.  Essentially citizenship is a social contract between a state and a person recognised as a citizen (e.g.: right to vote, right to travel using a passport of that nation, get social welfare etc), whereas nationality is a broader concept, often, but not exclusively, derived from descent and/or place of birth.

Without going in to detail, here is a broad layman's view of the difference by the The Economist: https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/07/09/what-is-the-difference-between-nationality-and-citizenship

The reason FIFA don't concern themselves with citizenship - and article 5 of the statute on eligibility is evidence of that - is that citizenship can in theory be granted and taken away e.g.: lots of nations essentially "sell" citizenship (you'll see ads in certain finance magazines advertising citizenship of the Caribbean island of Nevis).  So in theory, Qatar could hand out citizenship to the Brazilian U23 team if they want - FIFA ignores that and focuses on "nationality" and some other extra hurdles to establish eligibility. 

The passport thing is a bit of a red herring too - a passport is merely a travel document, although it may be indicative of citizenship (real proof, in Ireland at least, requires a document from the DOFA confusingly called a "certificate of nationality" - see the Citizenship and Nationality Act).

As regards Johannson, he acquired Irish citizenship after playing for Lux by registering on the Foreign Births Register (he got a passport at the same time, but that is incidental).  However that is irrelevant to whether he had Irish nationality (from birth).  

Given his Irish nationality comes from his descent, I would hope that he would be considered an Irish national, under the FIFA definition.  

If it did not, it would raise questions that would go merely beyond football concerns.




Edited by Luis Amor Rodriguez - 11 Sep 2019 at 6:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Having a passport is not the same as having the nationality. The word used in the FIFA statutes is nationality. Hadergjonaj was always a Kosovan national, even if he hadn't got the passport, by dint of being born with Kosovan parents.

I don't have kids but if I did, they'd be Irish citizens and nationals from the moment of their birth, not when they got their first passport, regardless of where they are born. The argument, in the Johansson case, is that he only became an Irish citizen (as opposed to someone entitled to apply for Irish citizenship) on the date he was entered on the register of foreign births, whereas Hadergjonaj was always a Kosovan national but was also a Swiss national when he made his first appearance for Switzerland, presumably by dint of being born there as the son of Kosovans.

They are not comparable cases, even leaving aside the recent Kosovan membership of FIFA. While I don't know the full ins and outs of Kosovan nationality law, I'm guessing he had the nationality from birth, like the vast majority of countries. Johannson, arguably, didn't have Irish citizenship at birth, merely the right to apply for it.

Then again, nationality and citizenship arguably aren't the same thing either, so Johansson can claim that he had nationality by dint of being the son of an Irish national entitled to claim citizenship as of right, but that he simply didn't have citizenship.

For the purposes FIFA are fulfilling, nationality and citizenship are synonymous. This has been covered previously, the semantical difference holds no water insofar as the intention of this FIFA statute.

I've looked into this in a bit more detail but don't have time for a longer post now - Dave has basically correctly summarised the position accurately.

With respect, O'Shea's comments are incorrect - nationality and citizenship are subtly but distinctly different concepts in FIFA and in general law.  Essentially citizenship is a social contract between a state and a person recognised as a citizen (e.g.: right to vote, right to travel using a passport of that nation, get social welfare etc), whereas nationality is a broader concept, often, but not exclusively, derived from descent and place of birth.

Without going in to detail, here is a broad layman's view of the difference by the The Economist: https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/07/09/what-is-the-difference-between-nationality-and-citizenship

The reason FIFA don't concern themselves with citizenship - and article 5 of the statute on eligibility is evidence of that - is that citizenship can in theory be granted and taken away e.g.: lots of nations essentially "sell" citizenship (you'll see ads in certain finance magazines advertising citizenship of the Caribbean island of Nevis).  So in theory, Qatar could hand out citizenship to the Brazilian U23 team if they want - FIFA ignores that and focuses on "nationality" and some other extra hurdles to establish eligibility. 

The passport thing is a bit of a red herring too - a passport is merely a travel document, although it may be indicative of citizenship (real proof, in Ireland at least, requires a document from the DOFA confusingly called a "certificate of nationality" - see the Citizenship and Nationality Act).

As regards Johannson, he acquired Irish citizenship after playing for Lux by registering on the Foreign Births Register (he got a passport at the same time, but that is incidental).  However that is irrelevant to whether he had Irish nationality (from birth).  

Given his Irish nationality comes from his descent, I would hope that he would be considered an Irish national, under the FIFA definition.  

If it did not, it would raise questions that would go merely beyond football concerns.



You have continually displayed complete ignorance of FIFA's eligibility statutes, so why do you keep persisting?

There was no need to "research it", I've fully acknowledged that there can be a semantical difference between nationality and citizenship in a linguistic sense, but FIFA are not authoring the Oxford dictionary! As regards their statutes, nationality and citizenship are absolutely synonymous, there is no suggestion whatsoever that they draw any sort of distinction between the two. Johansson will be eligible for us due to precedent and due to the fact the intention of the rule was not to make people in his situation ineligible. Relying on a possible semantical distinction will bear no fruit, because as far as their statutes are concerned there is none.


Edited by The O'Shea - 11 Sep 2019 at 6:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Having a passport is not the same as having the nationality. The word used in the FIFA statutes is nationality. Hadergjonaj was always a Kosovan national, even if he hadn't got the passport, by dint of being born with Kosovan parents.

I don't have kids but if I did, they'd be Irish citizens and nationals from the moment of their birth, not when they got their first passport, regardless of where they are born. The argument, in the Johansson case, is that he only became an Irish citizen (as opposed to someone entitled to apply for Irish citizenship) on the date he was entered on the register of foreign births, whereas Hadergjonaj was always a Kosovan national but was also a Swiss national when he made his first appearance for Switzerland, presumably by dint of being born there as the son of Kosovans.

They are not comparable cases, even leaving aside the recent Kosovan membership of FIFA. While I don't know the full ins and outs of Kosovan nationality law, I'm guessing he had the nationality from birth, like the vast majority of countries. Johannson, arguably, didn't have Irish citizenship at birth, merely the right to apply for it.

Then again, nationality and citizenship arguably aren't the same thing either, so Johansson can claim that he had nationality by dint of being the son of an Irish national entitled to claim citizenship as of right, but that he simply didn't have citizenship.

For the purposes FIFA are fulfilling, nationality and citizenship are synonymous. This has been covered previously, the semantical difference holds no water insofar as the intention of this FIFA statute.

I've looked into this in a bit more detail but don't have time for a longer post now - Dave has basically correctly summarised the position accurately.

With respect, O'Shea's comments are incorrect - nationality and citizenship are subtly but distinctly different concepts in FIFA and in general law.  Essentially citizenship is a social contract between a state and a person recognised as a citizen (e.g.: right to vote, right to travel using a passport of that nation, get social welfare etc), whereas nationality is a broader concept, often, but not exclusively, derived from descent and place of birth.

Without going in to detail, here is a broad layman's view of the difference by the The Economist: https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/07/09/what-is-the-difference-between-nationality-and-citizenship

The reason FIFA don't concern themselves with citizenship - and article 5 of the statute on eligibility is evidence of that - is that citizenship can in theory be granted and taken away e.g.: lots of nations essentially "sell" citizenship (you'll see ads in certain finance magazines advertising citizenship of the Caribbean island of Nevis).  So in theory, Qatar could hand out citizenship to the Brazilian U23 team if they want - FIFA ignores that and focuses on "nationality" and some other extra hurdles to establish eligibility. 

The passport thing is a bit of a red herring too - a passport is merely a travel document, although it may be indicative of citizenship (real proof, in Ireland at least, requires a document from the DOFA confusingly called a "certificate of nationality" - see the Citizenship and Nationality Act).

As regards Johannson, he acquired Irish citizenship after playing for Lux by registering on the Foreign Births Register (he got a passport at the same time, but that is incidental).  However that is irrelevant to whether he had Irish nationality (from birth).  

Given his Irish nationality comes from his descent, I would hope that he would be considered an Irish national, under the FIFA definition.  

If it did not, it would raise questions that would go merely beyond football concerns.



You have continually displayed complete ignorance of FIFA's eligibility statutes, so why do you keep persisting?

There was no need to "research it", I've fully acknowledged that there can be a semantical difference between nationality and citizenship in a linguistic sense, but FIFA are not authoring the Oxford dictionary! As regards their statutes, nationality and citizenship are absolutely synonymous, there is no suggestion whatsoever that they draw any sort of distinction between the two. Johansson will be eligible for us due to precedent and due to the fact the intention of the rule was not to make people in his situation ineligible. Relying on a possible semantical distinction will bear no fruit, because as far as their statutes are concerned there is none.

O'Shea, there's no need to lose the head.  

It's you who unfortunately displays ignorance of the FIFA Statutes which you clearly haven't read:
in them, "citizenship" and "nationality" are not synonomous.  

A quick review will demonstrate that "citizenship" is not even a concept that is considered - it does not appear anywhere in the statute.  FIFA doesn't care about "citizenship" - it doesn't enter the debate.

FIFA is concerned solely with "nationality" - this is the only concept discussed in the statutes. If you read them, you will see that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 6:25pm
Of course, if as O'Shea says, FIFA regarded "citizenship" and "nationality" as synonymous, then Qater could just make the best 11 uncapped Brazilians citizens tomorrow and have a team capable of getting to the knock-out stages of the world cup. 

Which is obviously ridiculous (aside from the fact "citizenship" isn't even a concept recognised in the Statutes). 

The only concern is the broader concept of "nationality" - the concept expressly considered in the Statutes - and how that is interpreted. 


Edited by Luis Amor Rodriguez - 11 Sep 2019 at 6:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Having a passport is not the same as having the nationality. The word used in the FIFA statutes is nationality. Hadergjonaj was always a Kosovan national, even if he hadn't got the passport, by dint of being born with Kosovan parents.

I don't have kids but if I did, they'd be Irish citizens and nationals from the moment of their birth, not when they got their first passport, regardless of where they are born. The argument, in the Johansson case, is that he only became an Irish citizen (as opposed to someone entitled to apply for Irish citizenship) on the date he was entered on the register of foreign births, whereas Hadergjonaj was always a Kosovan national but was also a Swiss national when he made his first appearance for Switzerland, presumably by dint of being born there as the son of Kosovans.

They are not comparable cases, even leaving aside the recent Kosovan membership of FIFA. While I don't know the full ins and outs of Kosovan nationality law, I'm guessing he had the nationality from birth, like the vast majority of countries. Johannson, arguably, didn't have Irish citizenship at birth, merely the right to apply for it.

Then again, nationality and citizenship arguably aren't the same thing either, so Johansson can claim that he had nationality by dint of being the son of an Irish national entitled to claim citizenship as of right, but that he simply didn't have citizenship.

For the purposes FIFA are fulfilling, nationality and citizenship are synonymous. This has been covered previously, the semantical difference holds no water insofar as the intention of this FIFA statute.

I've looked into this in a bit more detail but don't have time for a longer post now - Dave has basically correctly summarised the position accurately.

With respect, O'Shea's comments are incorrect - nationality and citizenship are subtly but distinctly different concepts in FIFA and in general law.  Essentially citizenship is a social contract between a state and a person recognised as a citizen (e.g.: right to vote, right to travel using a passport of that nation, get social welfare etc), whereas nationality is a broader concept, often, but not exclusively, derived from descent and place of birth.

Without going in to detail, here is a broad layman's view of the difference by the The Economist: https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/07/09/what-is-the-difference-between-nationality-and-citizenship

The reason FIFA don't concern themselves with citizenship - and article 5 of the statute on eligibility is evidence of that - is that citizenship can in theory be granted and taken away e.g.: lots of nations essentially "sell" citizenship (you'll see ads in certain finance magazines advertising citizenship of the Caribbean island of Nevis).  So in theory, Qatar could hand out citizenship to the Brazilian U23 team if they want - FIFA ignores that and focuses on "nationality" and some other extra hurdles to establish eligibility. 

The passport thing is a bit of a red herring too - a passport is merely a travel document, although it may be indicative of citizenship (real proof, in Ireland at least, requires a document from the DOFA confusingly called a "certificate of nationality" - see the Citizenship and Nationality Act).

As regards Johannson, he acquired Irish citizenship after playing for Lux by registering on the Foreign Births Register (he got a passport at the same time, but that is incidental).  However that is irrelevant to whether he had Irish nationality (from birth).  

Given his Irish nationality comes from his descent, I would hope that he would be considered an Irish national, under the FIFA definition.  

If it did not, it would raise questions that would go merely beyond football concerns.



You have continually displayed complete ignorance of FIFA's eligibility statutes, so why do you keep persisting?

There was no need to "research it", I've fully acknowledged that there can be a semantical difference between nationality and citizenship in a linguistic sense, but FIFA are not authoring the Oxford dictionary! As regards their statutes, nationality and citizenship are absolutely synonymous, there is no suggestion whatsoever that they draw any sort of distinction between the two. Johansson will be eligible for us due to precedent and due to the fact the intention of the rule was not to make people in his situation ineligible. Relying on a possible semantical distinction will bear no fruit, because as far as their statutes are concerned there is none.

O'Shea, there's no need to lose the head.  

It's you who unfortunately displays ignorance of the FIFA Statutes which you clearly haven't read:
in them, "citizenship" and "nationality" are not synonomous.  

A quick review will demonstrate that "citizenship" is not even a concept that is considered - it does not appear anywhere in the statute.  FIFA doesn't care about "citizenship" - it doesn't enter the debate.

FIFA is concerned solely with "nationality" - this is the only concept discussed in the statutes. If you read them, you will see that.

And how do they determine nationality? By verifying that the person is a "national" (synonymous with citizen) of the country. Johansson was not an Irish national until he received his Irish citizenship, he was ENTITLED to become an Irish national before this but he was not yet one. This is what FIFA are concerned with, determining that a player is a national/citizen of a country, not simply that they could become one. This is why English born players always have to go through the process of obtaining an Irish passport prior to lining out for us, because merely stating you're entitled to one is not sufficient, you actually have to have it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Of course, if as O'Shea says, FIFA regarded "citizenship" and "nationality" as synonymous, then Qater could just make the best 11 uncapped Brazilians citizens tomorrow and have a team capable of getting to the knock-out stages of the world cup. 

Which is obviously ridiculous (aside from the fact "citizenship" isn't even a concept recognised in the Statutes). 

The only concern is the broader concept of "nationality" - the concept expressly considered in the Statutes - and how that is interpreted. 

This is a completely irrelevant argument, because FIFA have a different set of statutes that deal with naturalisation.. Even if this wasn't the case, you would still be contradicting yourself, because your hypothetical Brazilian-born Qatari citizens would also have Qatari nationality (ie the argument that FIFA are only concerned with your particular definition of nationality wouldn't make any sense either).
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 6:58pm
Legal definitions and Fifa statutes aside, I get the feeling that if Johansson really pushes for this hard he could make it happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Legal definitions and Fifa statutes aside, I get the feeling that if Johansson really pushes for this hard he could make it happen.

Johansson can't "push hard", it's completely out of his hands now? This is not some sort of gut test where wanting something badly enough gets it for you, it's an administrative process between FIFA, the FAI, and the Luxembourg FA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Legal definitions and Fifa statutes aside, I get the feeling that if Johansson really pushes for this hard he could make it happen.

Johansson can't "push hard", it's completely out of his hands now? This is not some sort of gut test where wanting something badly enough gets it for you, it's an administrative process between FIFA, the FAI, and the Luxembourg FA.

Fair enough oshea but do you think we'll ever see him in the green or is this highly unlikely?
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