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Plans for All-Island League by 2021

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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2019 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

I have a few acquaintances who would be Institute fans. I also have a work colleague who is mad into Linfield. That hardly means I can speak for all clubs which I recognize I have(so I apologize for the generalisations but it is just opinion) but at this moment in time with the volatile situation surrounding brexit and the border and this withdrawal act it would astound me if Northern clubs had any interest. As I say owners are often businessmen. They follow the money. But I honestly can't see fans of Coleraine or Linfield etc ever going for it. Cross border cups are a completely different proposition to having an all island league. What then? An all island team? Where will it stop? That would be many fans attitude I believe.

Football fans want the best for their team - obvious, I know, but it has to be the starting point of any such discussion.

And over the last good few years, IL football and its clubs have suffered on a whole number of counts by comparison with both their LOI neighbours, and the ever dominant English Premier League (also SPL).

Therefore when s.o. comes with a proposal which offers a big increase in the money coming into their club, so allowing them to go f-t, and which could provide more glamour/prestige than their existing competitions with higher playing standards, and maybe see them be more competitive in Europe etc, then any reasonable fan would be bound to give it a fair hearing.

Which is exactly what happened with Lucid's proposal, where he said at one stage that if anything, the Northern clubs were at least as enthusiastic as the LOI clubs. It also explains why all the senior IL clubs bar (I think) Dungannon and Institute attended his presentation in Dundalk. (Neither Swifts nor Stute could expect to participate, tbh).

But the problem was that when they saw what Lucid was putting forward, it was "all froth and no beer", with no guarantee of any of the benefits, nor any allaying of any of the doubts. Which is what killed it pretty much stone dead.

But I will go with you in one sense. That is, most IL club fans are also NI fans. Therefore even had he been more persuasive with his plans for their own club, he would still have had to persuade them that this plan would not lead to the death of their other team. And not only had he not even spoken to UEFA about the number of places for Irish clubs in European competition, but he had precisely nothing to say about protecting the separate identity of the IFA/NI international teams, beyond "Sure it'll all be grand, lads".

So speaking for myself, if an AIL offered concrete, sustained benefit to the Glens, I would go for it. But if it were also to mean the end of my other team, NI, then I'm afraid it's not for me.

Which is the whole point about "Sophie's Choice" - it's no choice at all.


Edited by Territorial - 15 Nov 2019 at 1:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2019 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

I have a few acquaintances who would be Institute fans. I also have a work colleague who is mad into Linfield. That hardly means I can speak for all clubs which I recognize I have(so I apologize for the generalisations but it is just opinion) but at this moment in time with the volatile situation surrounding brexit and the border and this withdrawal act it would astound me if Northern clubs had any interest. As I say owners are often businessmen. They follow the money. But I honestly can't see fans of Coleraine or Linfield etc ever going for it. Cross border cups are a completely different proposition to having an all island league. What then? An all island team? Where will it stop? That would be many fans attitude I believe.

Football fans want the best for their team - obvious, I know, but it has to be the starting point of any such discussion.

And over the last good few years, IL football and its clubs have suffered on a whole number of counts by comparison with both their LOI neighbours, and the ever dominant English Premier League (also SPL).

Therefore when s.o. comes with a proposal which offers a big increase in the money coming into their club, so allowing them to go f-t, and which could provide more glamour/prestige than their existing competitions with higher playing standards, and maybe see them be more competitive in Europe etc, then any reasonable fan would be bound to give it a fair hearing.

Which is exactly what happened with Lucid's proposal, where he said at one stage that if anything, the Northern clubs were at least as enthusiastic as the LOI clubs. It also explains why all the senior IL clubs bar (I think) Dungannon and Institute attended his presentation in Dundalk. (Neither Swifts nor Stute could expect to participate, tbh).

But the problem was that when they saw what Lucid was putting forward, it was "all froth and no beer", with no guarantee of any of the benefits, nor any allaying of any of the doubts. Which is what killed it pretty much stone dead.

But I will go with you in one sense. That is, most IL club fans are also NI fans. Therefore even had he been more persuasive with his plans for their own club, he would still have had to persuade them that this plan would not lead to the death of their other team. And not only had he not even spoken to UEFA about the number of places for Irish clubs in European competition, but he had precisely nothing to say about protecting the separate identity of the IFA/NI international teams, beyond "Sure it'll all be grand, lads".

So speaking for myself, if an AIL offered concrete, sustained benefit to the Glens, I would go for it. But if it were also to mean the end of my other team, NI, then I'm afraid it's not for me.

Which is the whole point about "Sophie's Choice" - it's no choice at all.

You're right that they should make it clear that it will be an island competition with input from IFA/FAI and not an attempted amalgamation of the associations national team.

In terms of prize money it's always going to be speculative as you're not going to receive solid bids until the league actually gets the go-ahead. I would hope the plan still has some life in it yet. It's the best way forward for domestic football in Ireland if we want to have a full time league and football industry. I live in NL at the moment and there is talk here of a joint league with Belgium. I think supra-national leagues will be a more common thing in Europe to help smaller countries compete with the money-league in European competition. 
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2019 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

You're right that they should make it clear that it will be an island competition with input from IFA/FAI and not an attempted amalgamation of the associations national team.

Thing is, though, it isn't within Lucid's gift to guarantee this, it is solely for UEFA. And for the reasons I give below, that is by no means a given.

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

In terms of prize money it's always going to be speculative as you're not going to receive solid bids until the league actually gets the go-ahead. I would hope the plan still has some life in it yet. It's the best way forward for domestic football in Ireland if we want to have a full time league and football industry.
That has to be within Lucid's gift to solve (or at least no-one elses), since he is the man behind it. He has yet to come up to the mark.

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

I live in NL at the moment and there is talk here of a joint league with Belgium. I think supra-national leagues will be a more common thing in Europe to help smaller countries compete with the money-league in European competition. 
I can see why that would appeal strongly to the likes of Ajax and Anderlecht etc. But like eg Celtic and Rangers joining the English Prem, it could only happen with the permission of the people who really count, in that case the English club owners, who don't want or need the increased competition.

When it comes to supra-national leagues (and Scotland/England don't quite come within that definition, yet at least!), it is UEFA which counts.

And UEFA's whole power stems from their 55 National Associations, not least when it comes to maintaining their influence within FIFA.

So that if they were to allow, say, a joint Benelux League, then they would have established the principle for a European Superleague, (effectively) owned and operated by the top 20 or so teams from a handful of countries. And once this Superleague got going, this could end up so financially lucrative that they could turn away from their domestic FA's, UEFA and even FIFA and "declare UDI". As such, their players would be barred from National Teams, and the smaller domestic Leagues would be gutted by the loss of their prestige clubs (Celtic, Ajax, Benfica, FC Zurich, Galatasaray, Copenhagen etc).

Which is why UEFA is perpetually at war with Agnelli and the European Clubs Association, and are perpetually trying to buy them off eg by modifying the CL into ever more of a "closed shop" for the big clubs, whilst expanding the EL and introducing a third tier competition as compensation for the rest.

P.S. Whatever did become of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_League_(football)




Edited by Territorial - 15 Nov 2019 at 2:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2019 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

You're right that they should make it clear that it will be an island competition with input from IFA/FAI and not an attempted amalgamation of the associations national team.

Thing is, though, it isn't within Lucid's gift to guarantee this, it is solely for UEFA. And for the reasons I give below, that is by no means a given.

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

In terms of prize money it's always going to be speculative as you're not going to receive solid bids until the league actually gets the go-ahead. I would hope the plan still has some life in it yet. It's the best way forward for domestic football in Ireland if we want to have a full time league and football industry.
That has to be within Lucid's gift to solve (or at least no-one elses), since he is the man behind it. He has yet to come up to the mark.

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

I live in NL at the moment and there is talk here of a joint league with Belgium. I think supra-national leagues will be a more common thing in Europe to help smaller countries compete with the money-league in European competition. 
I can see why that would appeal strongly to the likes of Ajax and Anderlecht etc. But like eg Celtic and Rangers joining the English Prem, it could only happen with the permission of the people who really count, in that case the English club owners, who don't want or need the increased competition.

When it comes to supra-national leagues (and Scotland/England don't quite come within that definition, yet at least!), it is UEFA which counts.

And UEFA's whole power stems from their 55 National Associations, not least when it comes to maintaining their influence within FIFA.

So that if they were to allow, say, a joint Benelux League, then they would have established the principle for a European Superleague, (effectively) owned and operated by the top 20 or so teams from a handful of countries. And once this Superleague got going, this could end up so financially lucrative that they could turn away from their domestic FA's, UEFA and even FIFA and "declare UDI". As such, their players would be barred from National Teams, and the smaller domestic Leagues would be gutted by the loss of their prestige clubs (Celtic, Ajax, Benfica, FC Zurich, Galatasaray, Copenhagen etc).

Which is why UEFA is perpetually at war with Agnelli and the European Clubs Association, and are perpetually trying to buy them off eg by modifying the CL into ever more of a "closed shop", whilst expanding the EL and introducing a third tier competition.




Good post, I take your point about the European Super League I hadn't taken that precedent into consideration. 

To be fair on the prize-money he has given pessimistic/optimistic predictions and been open on what interest has been received.

I guess it depends on what northern teams want from their league. If they want to be part of a full time structure the only way they can achieve that is amalgamation. Likewise the LOI will always have a handful of full time teams but adding in big clubs from the North would make that much easier to sustain.

Also from a more selfish point of view a few cans on the train to Belfast for a fixture around Xmas time sounds like great craic altogether. 



 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2019 at 2:42pm
Without quoting some very long posts, in relation to keeping two seperate international teams, Lucid's plan would be for the FAI and IFA Cups to continue running as they are so that there would still be a domestic competition in each area.

Whether that would satisfy UEFA is up for debate but that is his thinking in relation to approaching them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2019 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

I have a few acquaintances who would be Institute fans. I also have a work colleague who is mad into Linfield. That hardly means I can speak for all clubs which I recognize I have(so I apologize for the generalisations but it is just opinion) but at this moment in time with the volatile situation surrounding brexit and the border and this withdrawal act it would astound me if Northern clubs had any interest. As I say owners are often businessmen. They follow the money. But I honestly can't see fans of Coleraine or Linfield etc ever going for it. Cross border cups are a completely different proposition to having an all island league. What then? An all island team? Where will it stop? That would be many fans attitude I believe.

Football fans want the best for their team - obvious, I know, but it has to be the starting point of any such discussion.

And over the last good few years, IL football and its clubs have suffered on a whole number of counts by comparison with both their LOI neighbours, and the ever dominant English Premier League (also SPL).

Therefore when s.o. comes with a proposal which offers a big increase in the money coming into their club, so allowing them to go f-t, and which could provide more glamour/prestige than their existing competitions with higher playing standards, and maybe see them be more competitive in Europe etc, then any reasonable fan would be bound to give it a fair hearing.

Which is exactly what happened with Lucid's proposal, where he said at one stage that if anything, the Northern clubs were at least as enthusiastic as the LOI clubs. It also explains why all the senior IL clubs bar (I think) Dungannon and Institute attended his presentation in Dundalk. (Neither Swifts nor Stute could expect to participate, tbh).

But the problem was that when they saw what Lucid was putting forward, it was "all froth and no beer", with no guarantee of any of the benefits, nor any allaying of any of the doubts. Which is what killed it pretty much stone dead.

But I will go with you in one sense. That is, most IL club fans are also NI fans. Therefore even had he been more persuasive with his plans for their own club, he would still have had to persuade them that this plan would not lead to the death of their other team. And not only had he not even spoken to UEFA about the number of places for Irish clubs in European competition, but he had precisely nothing to say about protecting the separate identity of the IFA/NI international teams, beyond "Sure it'll all be grand, lads".

So speaking for myself, if an AIL offered concrete, sustained benefit to the Glens, I would go for it. But if it were also to mean the end of my other team, NI, then I'm afraid it's not for me.

Which is the whole point about "Sophie's Choice" - it's no choice at all.


I think that is the bottom line for many. If an all island league leads to the amalgimation or otherwise folding of the IFA then what becomes of the NI team? So it is an unanswerd question that unless UEFA made their feelings known beforehand would be sure to plague negotiations. 
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2019 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

To be fair on the prize-money [Lucid] has given pessimistic/optimistic predictions and been open on what interest has been received.

Maybe, but mere "interest" doesn't pay the bills. And even should that interest be converted into hard cash, what long term guarantees are there eg that the TV companies wouldn't just walk away if the viewing figures and advertising didn't meet their targets?
Remember this?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/football-clubs-threatened-by-collapse-of-itv-digital-9137592.html

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

I guess it depends on what northern teams want from their league. If they want to be part of a full time structure the only way they can achieve that is amalgamation. Likewise the LOI will always have a handful of full time teams but adding in big clubs from the North would make that much easier to sustain.
The IL clubs want the same as the LOI clubs - the raised standards and increased crowds/revenues which should follow f-t football.

But the AIL isn't the only show in town - there's UEFA money too, and not just individual club prize money, but solidarity money and youth development grants as well.

Were the IL to throw their hand in with an AIL, they could have as few as five clubs, maybe even fewer after a couple of seasons of promotion and relegation. I can't for the life of me see how UEFA could or would allow more than four European places for a league of that status. So when up against Dundalk, Shams, Derry and the rest, what realistic chance would even the top NI club have of clinching a European place?

Whereas at present, the IL is only temporarily down to three European places (will revert to four in another season), which offers real hope to 6 or 7 clubs of hard cash, as opposed to the mere promise of future cash for 4? 5? or 6? from Lucid's AIL.

Meanwhile, both Linfield and Crues are progressing towards f-t football, the Glens finally look to have got their sh*t together with debts cleared, a new investor, redevelopment potential at The Oval and realistic f-t ambitions. And in Larne, while their wealthy new owner is already paying f-t wages, he is also building a very impressive stadium and training facility, so he looks to be there for the long term.

Add to that the financial and playing recovery at Coleraine under Kearney, decent enough clubs at Cliftonville and Ballymena and potential (at least) at Glenavon and even Portadown(!), and the league is improving by the season, even if it's small steps. 

Do they really want to risk all that with a "leap in the dark" into an AIL?

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

Also from a more selfish point of view a few cans on the train to Belfast for a fixture around Xmas time sounds like great craic altogether. 
With you there - remember the train goes both ways!

Better still, it doesn't waste a couple of hours touring every townland and boghole in North Co.Louth, like the buses carrying those bluenosed bastards had to endure on Monday evening. (Serves them right, btw LOL)


Edited by Territorial - 15 Nov 2019 at 3:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2019 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Without quoting some very long posts, in relation to keeping two seperate international teams, Lucid's plan would be for the FAI and IFA Cups to continue running as they are so that there would still be a domestic competition in each area.

Whether that would satisfy UEFA is up for debate but that is his thinking in relation to approaching them. 

He'd have had a much better chance of making progress by the following process:
1. Approach UEFA first;
2. Get an answer;
3. Take it back to the clubs.

Unless, of course, he wasn't sure that he/the clubs would like the answer he got?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2019 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Without quoting some very long posts, in relation to keeping two seperate international teams, Lucid's plan would be for the FAI and IFA Cups to continue running as they are so that there would still be a domestic competition in each area.

Whether that would satisfy UEFA is up for debate but that is his thinking in relation to approaching them. 

He'd have had a much better chance of making progress by the following process:
1. Approach UEFA first;
2. Get an answer;
3. Take it back to the clubs.

Unless, of course, he wasn't sure that he/the clubs would like the answer he got?



Chicken and egg situation in a lot of ways. UEFA more likely to respond positively if the clubs are onside. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UCDFAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2019 at 5:56pm
Harding Cup, The Dub,  Queens University Belfast Sportsground Road, Monday 18th -20th November

The Harding Cup quarter final draw:-

  • UCC v NUI Galway
  • DCU v UCD
  • Trinity v QUB
  • Maynooth v UL
The 3-day tourney for fresher third level students
on Malone Road (possibly Lower, maybe Upper),
brings the 'people-who-give-a-sh1t-about-football' community together again.
Football continues to take place, others talk about it.

One outcome of integration is reduction of visible barriers to natural invisibility, long may that continue.

#cross-border #all-island #All-Ireland  (if you're into that sort of thing).


Edited by UCDFAN - 15 Nov 2019 at 5:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2019 at 6:23pm
There's another aspect to this for the Northern clubs that is getting overlooked.

Let us assume the top 5 or 6 IL clubs get into the AIL, it delivers all that has been promised and they successfully go f-t, whilst being competitive etc.

If you're not one of the 5 or 6 and you're an IL club who gets promoted from the Northern Regional League, you have a choice:
A. Take a gamble on going f-t, it still doesn't keep you up more than a season or two, and you find yourself relegated again with big debts;
B. Stay p-t, which means you have even less chance of staying up.

Neither choice is v.palatable and over the long term, it would mean that the lesser/yo-yo clubs, esp from outside Belfast, would be pretty much permanently cast adrift from the "Big Teams".

This is different from the LOI in one crucial respect. You would have 8 or 9 f-t teams in the AIL, which is about as much as the ROI could reasonably support long term, fair enough.

But if that means casting adrift the other teams currently in your Championship, so what? No disrespect, but from what I can see, that league is a bit of a joke. Whereas the IL Championship, whilst modest in scope, is stable and competitive within its own terms. Moreover, there is already a clear, established pyramid down to the next level (Intermediate), which itself goes down to Junior football. We would have to abandon all of that, not least because the Intermediate and Junior clubs would continue to play a conventional winter season, which would screw up their means/hopes of getting into AIL Regional North.

I get the impression that not so many people in ROI would be that bothered if the clubs outside the Chosen Few in the LOI Premier division just withered away (their respective supporters aside, obviously).

Whereas the IL has established clubs like Carrick, Institute, Ballinamallard, Warrenpoint, Newry and Ards in the regions who can hope to get into the IL Prem if they get organised, some of whom have come from a long way down the pyramid not so long ago.

I get the impression that Lucid hadn't a clue about any of this and no-one told him, because he didn't consult properly in NI before he finalised his proposals.


Edited by Territorial - 15 Nov 2019 at 6:27pm
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@Territorial
yes, trust your instincts. NIR has negotiated, agreed, shared space, formal pyramid structure.  IRL not so much, it has four pillars of football environments Junior, University/College, Senior and Intermediate. #4Pillars.
The Senior emvironment wants the advantages of "top tier" pyramid structure without the disadvantages of tolerance and negotiation.

What tournament are they up for?
There are many in SSE Airtricity who are attracted to the prestige of international travel so many football followers celebrate the homogenous sloganism "Europe", "Europe", "Europe", "Europe" before consideration of domestic club tournaments incld. SSE AL Premier Division.  If they primarily support UEFA CL and UEFA EL these football fans should say and represent what they want more accurately.


Wastage:
SSE AL Premier Division is right-wing atm (kinda always was) so capatilist use, abuse and misuse of resources is applied.  Players, Managers and FCs are trashed with excuses "you're always going get that.." "there'll always be some clubs that cant make the mark" "Exclusion is part n parcel of football".

Lesson from very recent history:
Through 1980s Manchester, Lancashire was creating pretty matchbox models of sports venues (some multi-use) in a collective application to host IOC Olympics.  The applications didn't have the support of the central government in London.  Manchester didnt host IOC Olympics, twice.

Sheffield, South Yorkshire applied and won permission to host FISU Universiade (World Student Games) in 1991.  14 sports incld Athletics, Swimming, Basketball and Football.  Football hosted in about dozen venues.  Don Valley athletics stadium and Ponds Forge swimming venue new-builds. (Ireland won Gold in Womens and Mens 1500m.  Ireland was in same group as Islamic Republic of Iran, USA and GBR). 
Sheffield using university governing body FISU got their multi-sports tourament, Manchester didnt using IOC.

In the same way under the FISU structure Irish Universities Football Union with Colleges FAI have all-island gender-equal winter-long CUFL leagues and IUFU short week tournaments.
The FIFA structure through SSE AL and Danske Bank League has talk of 'an' all-island league, the FIFA structure needs to acknowledge and recognise what is there already.

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Talks to resume at the end of January, with consultation running until end of March.
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FIFA wasn't the reason that made the IFA say no. They said no because our clubs are a farce. Except for UCD, every club here is four or five bad results away from a financial crisis and it's been that way since partition
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There's no way the NI league agrees to it being branded the Celtic league. The League of Rangers now that might pass. 
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Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Location: South Armagh
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Points: 1893
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote savo01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 11:49am
I think an AIL would be ok from UEFA's point of view as they'd love to be seen to be involved with something that had an angle of building bridges/promoting peace etc.  

As for European places you'd have to weigh up how much the teams make against how much they could make from the League itself.  There are a lot of cost factors involved with hosting European ties as we know, Dundalk having to do up the dugouts in Tallaght for example so even if it says you will get for example £200,000 for being in a 1st round, you will obviously have to pay out X amount of that.

In terms of the League and revenue it seems there will have to be a bit of a leap of faith but surely this is the case with all League's.  When the clubs decided to form the Premier League they had no TV deal or sponsorship in place but once the product was decided TV companies and sponsors knew what they were investing in.  Bar a handful of clubs the NI clubs are very poor but cut their cloth accordingly, I have been told in recent years of players in the Premiership getting £80 per week and in one season players paying subs to the club so I think they would welcome some decent money.

Lets say that each of the 14 clubs were guaranteed €300,000 or £250,000 per season, that's about €5/6m needed per season for the League to operate, with different TV companies and sponsors would that be achievable in peoples opinion?
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Liam Brady
Liam Brady
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Joined: 14 Sep 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 1340
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2020 at 5:24pm
The Sun newspaper have said that ten northern clubs including all the big unionist clubs are in favour of a form of an All Ireland league.



Edited by Jackal - 11 Jul 2020 at 5:25pm
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