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Liam Brady
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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

The haters will continue to hate..LOL

I'll wait for tets to pull out the stats to prove them wrong.

But those stats are redundant. Duff missed the 1st 5 qualifiers (think he played in Skopje?). Anyway, who are you looking to assist? The team is set up that only the wingers and strikers have any attacking intent.

BTW, if he played like he did in Zilina every match great. But he's too up and down.

I was disgusted at his work rate in Poland. I'm not forgetting the great display he put in defensively in Moscow but he left Ward disgracefully exposed in the 1st match especially. So much so that I can only guess he wasn't fit. Bar his 2nd half cameo against Bosnia, can you name a game when he really shone lately? And my stat that O Shea and McGeady completed 5 passes between themselves against Italy tells a lot.

BTW, himself on the right and McClean on the left is probably what I would start in September (I'd wait to see how Duff and McClean start their seasons - Duff had been on the go competitively for 12 months after a couple of week break, the rest may improve him..) but I think McGeady flatters to deceive and I honestly don't get all the hype.

About the 5th time we've had this argumentLOL
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Originally posted by Kerrzy Kerrzy wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

The haters will continue to hate..LOL

I'll wait for tets to pull out the stats to prove them wrong.

But those stats are redundant. Duff missed the 1st 5 qualifiers (think he played in Skopje?). Anyway, who are you looking to assist? The team is set up that only the wingers and strikers have any attacking intent.

BTW, if he played like he did in Zilina every match great. But he's too up and down.

I was disgusted at his work rate in Poland. I'm not forgetting the great display he put in defensively in Moscow but he left Ward disgracefully exposed in the 1st match especially. So much so that I can only guess he wasn't fit. Bar his 2nd half cameo against Bosnia, can you name a game when he really shone lately? And my stat that O Shea and McGeady completed 5 passes between themselves against Italy tells a lot.

BTW, himself on the right and McClean on the left is probably what I would start in September (I'd wait to see how Duff and McClean start their seasons - Duff had been on the go competitively for 12 months after a couple of week break, the rest may improve him..) but I think McGeady flatters to deceive and I honestly don't get all the hype.

About the 5th time we've had this argumentLOL

Most players didn't play well in Poland.
He played very well in Estonia.
It was far across the sea,
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He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
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Might aswell put Shay up front, O Shea in goal and tardelli on the wing.

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Originally posted by Kerrzy Kerrzy wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

The haters will continue to hate..LOL

I'll wait for tets to pull out the stats to prove them wrong.

But those stats are redundant. Duff missed the 1st 5 qualifiers (think he played in Skopje?). Anyway, who are you looking to assist? The team is set up that only the wingers and strikers have any attacking intent.

BTW, if he played like he did in Zilina every match great. But he's too up and down.

I was disgusted at his work rate in Poland. I'm not forgetting the great display he put in defensively in Moscow but he left Ward disgracefully exposed in the 1st match especially. So much so that I can only guess he wasn't fit. Bar his 2nd half cameo against Bosnia, can you name a game when he really shone lately? And my stat that O Shea and McGeady completed 5 passes between themselves against Italy tells a lot.

BTW, himself on the right and McClean on the left is probably what I would start in September (I'd wait to see how Duff and McClean start their seasons - Duff had been on the go competitively for 12 months after a couple of week break, the rest may improve him..) but I think McGeady flatters to deceive and I honestly don't get all the hype.

About the 5th time we've had this argumentLOL
Duff missed the first four games, he played against Macedonia in Dublin: http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2012/matches/round=15171/match=2002229/postmatch/lineups/index.html
McGeady had the highest amount of assists in qualifying (how many times have I posted that?) and had the assist on St Ledger's goal VS Croatia.
I've posted elsewhere that I thought that better players, or at least better organised players, would have realised when he was in trouble, and anticipated some of the passes he was forced into making. I'm thinking in particular of one vs Italy when he was marked by two players, and slipped the ball between them, only for the midfielder standing behind one of the Italians (think it was Andrews) to remain static and the ball was easily intercepted by the fullback.


Edited by tetsujin1979 - 03 Jul 2012 at 4:23pm
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Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Duff missed the first four games, he played against Macedonia in Dublin: http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2012/matches/round=15171/match=2002229/postmatch/lineups/index.html
McGeady had the highest amount of assists in qualifying (how many times have I posted that?) and had the assist on St Ledger's goal VS Croatia.
I've posted elsewhere that I thought that better players, or at least better organised players, would have realised when he was in trouble, and anticipated some of the passes he was forced into making. I'm thinking in particular of one vs Italy when he was marked by two players, and slipped the ball between them, only for the midfielder standing behind one of the Italians (think it was Andrews) to remain static and the ball was easily intercepted by the fullback.

After going through the 'stats' from the UEFA website of our matches, I cannot believe you are using this assist arguments still.

Of the 20 goals we scored in qualifying only 7 were credited with an assist. It ridicules your argument. See below:

Armenia: No assists
Andorra: 1 Lawrence, 1 McGeady
Russia: No assists
Slovakia: No assists
Macedonia (H): 1 Doyle
Macedonia (A): No assists
Andorra (A): 1 Whelan
Armenia (H): 1 McGeady
Estonia (A): McGeady 1, Keane 1
Estonia (H): No Assists

I honestly hope that's the last time that argument is spouted in favour of McGeady.
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McGeady was in troulbe against Croatia big time. I dont think it was through lack of effort. I think he was knackered and Srna is one of the toughest wing backs to mark in the game.  
 
I must watch the game again but I remember seeing at the time Mc Geady was stuck between a rock and a hard place in helping out in midfield and also chasing Srna back. 
 
It would have taken a Moscow away type performance from him to stop Srna along the wing.
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Originally posted by Kerrzy Kerrzy wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Duff missed the first four games, he played against Macedonia in Dublin: http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2012/matches/round=15171/match=2002229/postmatch/lineups/index.html
McGeady had the highest amount of assists in qualifying (how many times have I posted that?) and had the assist on St Ledger's goal VS Croatia.
I've posted elsewhere that I thought that better players, or at least better organised players, would have realised when he was in trouble, and anticipated some of the passes he was forced into making. I'm thinking in particular of one vs Italy when he was marked by two players, and slipped the ball between them, only for the midfielder standing behind one of the Italians (think it was Andrews) to remain static and the ball was easily intercepted by the fullback.

After going through the 'stats' from the UEFA website of our matches, I cannot believe you are using this assist arguments still.

Of the 20 goals we scored in qualifying only 7 were credited with an assist. It ridicules your argument. See below:

Armenia: No assists
Andorra: 1 Lawrence, 1 McGeady
Russia: No assists
Slovakia: No assists
Macedonia (H): 1 Doyle
Macedonia (A): No assists
Andorra (A): 1 Whelan
Armenia (H): 1 McGeady
Estonia (A): McGeady 1, Keane 1
Estonia (H): No Assists

I honestly hope that's the last time that argument is spouted in favour of McGeady.

fair enough, I went a different route and found footage of all the goals online. This is what I came up with:


Game         Score Goalscorer Assist                    

Armenia(A)    1-0  Fahey      Doyle, possibly Keane     

Andorra(H)    3-1  Kilbane    Lawrence                  

                   Doyle      Lawrence                  

                   Keane      McGeady                   

Russia(H)     3-2  Keane      N/A - penalty                      

                   Long       McGeady                   

Slovakia(A)   1-1  St Ledger  Fahey                     

Macedonia(H)  2-1  Keane      Gibson                    

                   McGeady    

Macedonia(A)  2-0  Keane      None                      

                   Keane      None                      

Andorra(A)    2-0  Doyle      Whelan                    

                   McGeady    Whelan                    

Armenia(H)    2-1  OG         Duff                      

                   Dunne      McGeady
The assist on Long's goal VS Russia is a bit generous, it was a follow up from McGeady's shot which would have been a certain goal if not saved by the keeper
Don't see how McGeady can't be given the assist on Dunne's goal VS Armenia - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejVQC5e7NeY go to the 1:25 mark, no other player gets near it


Edited by tetsujin1979 - 03 Jul 2012 at 5:07pm
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I think even this proves that basing a player's quality of performance on the number of assists they make is pointless. What constitutes an assist is even open to debate.

Also going by your stats the winger on the wing opposite to McGeady had actually more assists if you add them up - Lawrence x 2, Fahey and Duff. So, picking at straws again it diminishes your argument. I could be wrong but didn't McGeady play in every match?

Anyway the point I'm trying to make is he had a goos 1st half of the campaign but has been woeful IMO for the last year and a bit. I think people are going on promise and potential rather than actual performances.
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Originally posted by Kerrzy Kerrzy wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

The haters will continue to hate..LOL

I'll wait for tets to pull out the stats to prove them wrong.

But those stats are redundant. Duff missed the 1st 5 qualifiers (think he played in Skopje?). Anyway, who are you looking to assist? The team is set up that only the wingers and strikers have any attacking intent.

BTW, if he played like he did in Zilina every match great. But he's too up and down.

I was disgusted at his work rate in Poland. I'm not forgetting the great display he put in defensively in Moscow but he left Ward disgracefully exposed in the 1st match especially. So much so that I can only guess he wasn't fit. Bar his 2nd half cameo against Bosnia, can you name a game when he really shone lately? And my stat that O Shea and McGeady completed 5 passes between themselves against Italy tells a lot.

BTW, himself on the right and McClean on the left is probably what I would start in September (I'd wait to see how Duff and McClean start their seasons - Duff had been on the go competitively for 12 months after a couple of week break, the rest may improve him..) but I think McGeady flatters to deceive and I honestly don't get all the hype.

About the 5th time we've had this argumentLOL
id be inclinced to agree, he was woeful in poland.
 
Re stats, there are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics (albeit incorrect ones in this case). i judge a player for seeing him play as opposed to the opta index.
he has had some good games but sometimes seems like he has learned nothing alot of the time. he is also one of the most frustating players i have ever seen, he dithers and dithers, often never beats the first defender for a cross and his vsion for an early ball is poor too.
 
He has a hatful of tricks, pace, quick feet and can beat players, but what use is that if you cannot get the ball in the box.
 
Have you any stats on completed crosses for McGeady? Average number of balls into the box per game etc? number of frees won in danger areas? shots on target ? 
 
 
 
 
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Originally posted by Kerrzy Kerrzy wrote:

I think even this proves that basing a player's quality of performance on the number of assists they make is pointless. What constitutes an assist is even open to debate.

Also going by your stats the winger on the wing opposite to McGeady had actually more assists if you add them up - Lawrence x 2, Fahey and Duff. So, picking at straws again it diminishes your argument. I could be wrong but didn't McGeady play in every match?

Anyway the point I'm trying to make is he had a goos 1st half of the campaign but has been woeful IMO for the last year and a bit. I think people are going on promise and potential rather than actual performances.
I left out the Estonia game (the original post is from before it) which would make it 4 apiece from McGeady VS the combined efforts of Duff, Lawrence (x2) and Fahey

He started all the qualifiers, and the away game VS Estonia, and came off the bench in the home leg



Edited by tetsujin1979 - 03 Jul 2012 at 6:00pm
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McGeady is the most frustrating player in the squad, mainly because unlike some of the others who came up well short in Poland, he has the talent to do so much more. Like a lot of people, I get annoyed watching him at times, wish he would not try beat the same man twice, wish he would cross the ball earlier, but having said that, any of Ireland's few forward excursions into opposition territory in Poland, he was involved in. At the moment, there are not too many alternatives to him, regardless of how much people hype up Coleman/McClean.

McClean will hopefully move onwards and upwards, but he may not, he would not be the first player to have the ' 2nd season syndrome' , tis a bit early to say he is a better international player than McGeady at this early stage of his career. Hopefully he will get the chance to prove he is worthy of a starting spot sooner rather than later. 

Coleman needs to cement his first team place at Everton, his form didn't warrant selection for Ireland  (certainly not the first team) last year, this is a big year for him. 

Lawrence is in his 30's and probably finished at this level, Hunt badly needs to recapture some form to even stay in the squad at this stage. 

As regards the Duffer continuing, I'm not sure of the value of it to us any more (as a 1st 11 man at least). His current greatest assets are that he rarely gives the ball away, and as a winger, he is defensively sound. Problem is, under Trap's system, he is nominally an attacking player, he no longer has the pace to beat a man, occasionally he does beat fullbacks with a piece of trickery, but these moments are becoming rarer. His goal return (same thing can be levelled at McGeady) is awful, not a good thing when the boss plays 2 out of form strikers. 

So regardless of his critcs , I don't see his place under any real threat as of yet. 
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The people who criticise McGeady are the same people who always used to dog Keane and Duff when they were our only two players capable of changing a game. This negativity surrounding our most influential players needs to stop. Fair enough, he isn't as consistent as we would like, but the fact is that out of all of our players he is the most likely to make a goal out of nothing. Why continue to sl*g someone off when there isn't a better option? You could argue that McLean is coming through now, but Duff is also in decline. Plus this sl*gging was going on long before McLean was on the scene.
 
As Tesujin's stats show, he was vital to us in qualifying for the finals, so why all the hatred? Until we have a better option, or until his assists cease completely, I think he should be given a break and offered more support.
 
PS Pat Dolan's team is an absolute joke.


Edited by MJD - 04 Jul 2012 at 12:14am
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Originally posted by MJD MJD wrote:




The people who criticise McGeady are the same people who always used to dog Keane and Duff when they were our only two players capable of changing a game. This negativity surrounding our most influential players needs to stop. Fair enough, he isn't as consistent as we would like, but the fact is that out of all of our players he is the most likely to make a goal out of nothing. Why continue to sl*g someone off when there isn't a better option? You could argue that McLean is coming through now, but Duff is also in decline. Plus this sl*gging was going on long before McLean was on the scene.
 
As Tesujin's stats show, he was vital to us in qualifying for the finals, so why all the hatred? Until we have a better option, or until his assists cease completely, I think he should be given a break and offered more support.
 
PS Pat Dolan's team is an absolute joke.



What does the stats prove??? Ive said over and over again on this that we have only 4 attacking outlets and as long as that is the situation we'll only have 2 top assisters (dxcuse the expression). And as proven its the 2 wide men. And who was more successful in the group? The 3 players on the wing opposite to McGeady.


Point proven wrong in my book.
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Originally posted by MJD MJD wrote:

The people who criticise McGeady are the same people who always used to dog Keane and Duff when they were our only two players capable of changing a game. This negativity surrounding our most influential players needs to stop. Fair enough, he isn't as consistent as we would like, but the fact is that out of all of our players he is the most likely to make a goal out of nothing. Why continue to sl*g someone off when there isn't a better option? You could argue that McLean is coming through now, but Duff is also in decline. Plus this sl*gging was going on long before McLean was on the scene.
 
As Tesujin's stats show, he was vital to us in qualifying for the finals, so why all the hatred? Until we have a better option, or until his assists cease completely, I think he should be given a break and offered more support.
 
PS Pat Dolan's team is an absolute joke.
hatred? catch yourself on, people are entitled to have opinions, it being a forum and all!
no one player has immunity from it either, if its fair game to criticise green, ward, doyle, whelan its fair game to criticise McGeady, keane, duff, dunne, given (when called for).
 
As mentioned above, he is frustrating because he has the talent, but alot of the time its his decision making that lets him down.
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Originally posted by Kerrzy Kerrzy wrote:

Originally posted by MJD MJD wrote:




The people who criticise McGeady are the same people who always used to dog Keane and Duff when they were our only two players capable of changing a game. This negativity surrounding our most influential players needs to stop. Fair enough, he isn't as consistent as we would like, but the fact is that out of all of our players he is the most likely to make a goal out of nothing. Why continue to sl*g someone off when there isn't a better option? You could argue that McLean is coming through now, but Duff is also in decline. Plus this sl*gging was going on long before McLean was on the scene.
 
As Tesujin's stats show, he was vital to us in qualifying for the finals, so why all the hatred? Until we have a better option, or until his assists cease completely, I think he should be given a break and offered more support.
 
PS Pat Dolan's team is an absolute joke.



What does the stats prove??? Ive said over and over again on this that we have only 4 attacking outlets and as long as that is the situation we'll only have 2 top assisters (dxcuse the expression). And as proven its the 2 wide men. And who was more successful in the group? The 3 players on the wing opposite to McGeady.


Point proven wrong in my book.
 
Think I must be missing something? What is your basis to saying the three players on the opposite wing were more successful than McGeady? Genuine question as I don't know what you're basing that on.
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Originally posted by Citizen Citizen wrote:

Originally posted by MJD MJD wrote:

The people who criticise McGeady are the same people who always used to dog Keane and Duff when they were our only two players capable of changing a game. This negativity surrounding our most influential players needs to stop. Fair enough, he isn't as consistent as we would like, but the fact is that out of all of our players he is the most likely to make a goal out of nothing. Why continue to sl*g someone off when there isn't a better option? You could argue that McLean is coming through now, but Duff is also in decline. Plus this sl*gging was going on long before McLean was on the scene.
 
As Tesujin's stats show, he was vital to us in qualifying for the finals, so why all the hatred? Until we have a better option, or until his assists cease completely, I think he should be given a break and offered more support.
 
PS Pat Dolan's team is an absolute joke.
hatred? catch yourself on, people are entitled to have opinions, it being a forum and all!
no one player has immunity from it either, if its fair game to criticise green, ward, doyle, whelan its fair game to criticise McGeady, keane, duff, dunne, given (when called for).
 
As mentioned above, he is frustrating because he has the talent, but alot of the time its his decision making that lets him down.
 
I agree with the frustration etc etc etc and fair enough have your opinion, but the thing that riles me is when I'm at a match and I hear people moaning and groaning about it. Support the players when they're on the pitch, moan afterwards. I even clapped Green when he came on against Spain, because it's absolutely no help to the player, and therefore the team, if his confidence is knocked during the game.
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MJD, I see your point, but is there anything to be said for fans letting their anger known to the manager at a game in hopes of opening his eyes?
Sometimes it's hard to not vent your frustration when you see the same mistakes over and over again.
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Originally posted by MJD MJD wrote:

Originally posted by Kerrzy Kerrzy wrote:


What does the stats prove??? Ive said over and over again on this that we have only 4 attacking outlets and as long as that is the situation we'll only have 2 top assisters (dxcuse the expression). And as proven its the 2 wide men. And who was more successful in the group? The 3 players on the wing opposite to McGeady.


Point proven wrong in my book.
 
Think I must be missing something? What is your basis to saying the three players on the opposite wing were more successful than McGeady? Genuine question as I don't know what you're basing that on.

According to Tetsujin's stats above Fahey had 1, Lawrence had 2 and Duff had 1 assist in the group. McGeady played all matches and only got 3.

As I said before there's no point reading too much into these stats anyway, it's how you perform on the pitch for the 90 minutes and IMO he hasn't performed to his capabilities for us lately.

Re your point to Citizen. Unlike others I didn't hear anyone bad mouthing Green when he came on. Green hardly picked himself FFS. 

Re McGeady: of course you support your players but I for one get so caught up in the game and with emotion running high it's inconceivable for people not to shout things they may or may not later regret when someone makes a sloppy pass or wastes a good opportunity when stakes are high and we're on the back foot.


Edited by Kerrzy - 04 Jul 2012 at 6:26pm
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