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Het-field View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Terri, it’s not that simple. The convention relates to home and away games. In my eyes, if it was treated as a home game, as it should have been, you play the two anthems as in Dublin. And there isn’t any reason in the world,  not least it being something dispensed with years ago that would give rise to GSTQ at an Irish game. So it was either use the Dublin convention, or use the pre-existing convention about “away” fixtures.
There were two conventions in existence, neither of which was thought suitable for this particular game.

So instead of taking the opportunity to adopt a new convention, they basically frigged the system to somehow make one convention "fit", in the process implying that rugby fans from NI aren't really "Irish". Can't you see that as well as being dishonest, it was also offensive to those fans from NI who have always respected the Republic's anthem in Dublin down the years?

Remember, too, that those two conventions were themselves modifcations of what had existed previously, so that if they could change them once, they could just as surely change them again.

Or what objection do you have (musicological reasons aside!), to simply playing Ireland's Call before Ireland's rugby games?

I don’t understand why a cookie should be given to fans who “respected the Republic’s anthem”. That’s just basic common courtesy and a generally observed phenomenon across the board. What else would they do?

Only if you want to see this as some implicit repudiation, then you will believe that. But nothing could be further from the truth. Simply put, it was a different time, and at best a ball drop. Its a non issue really.

I fully appreciate that when the time comes, a new anthem, a new flag, new symbols etc will all be adopted. That is something I will welcome in a new, pluralist, united entity. But in 2007 the convention remained as it was. And I still know loads of Ulster fans who still support the team regardless, and the important involvement of Ulster players in the team. 
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amccarten313 View Drop Down
500 Club la la la
500 Club la la la


Joined: 29 Mar 2015
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amccarten313 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 6:08pm
I'm not attacking at all his "right" to be a member of the forum, nor do I wish that YBIG was an echo chamber; football forums are by nature inherently places for conversations, arguments, etc. For me personally though, the thought of investing so much time and effort, on a daily basis (over a number of years), on a forum about a team you don't support is just absolutely jaw-dropping stuff. Actually not sure what's worse- the idea that he might spend more time on an NI forum, or the idea that YBIG is his bread and butter.
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Territorial View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I don’t understand why a cookie should be given to fans who “respected the Republic’s anthem”. That’s just basic common courtesy and a generally observed phenomenon across the board. What else would they do?

I'm not saying they should be rewarded, I'm merely saying they should not be disrespected (by being told they're not really "Irish")

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Only if you want to see this as some implicit repudiation, then you will believe that. But nothing could be further from the truth. Simply put, it was a different time, and at best a ball drop. Its a non issue really.

Cannot you see the implicit insult?

"We want to pick you because it suits us, but we don't want to accept you're really "Irish" like the other players"

Which may be a non-issue for you, but can you imagine the row if the shoe had been on the other foot?
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I fully appreciate that when the time comes, a new anthem, a new flag, new symbols etc will all be adopted. That is something I will welcome in a new, pluralist, united entity. But in 2007 the convention remained as it was.

No, the convention in 2007 was that GSTQ should have been played. Now I don't for one moment suggest that that should have happened - that would have been ridiculously inflammatory - but surely "the time had come" then to adopt a new convention?

I mean, you still haven't explained what is wrong with simply playing Ireland's Call, home and away?

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

And I still know loads of Ulster fans who still support the team regardless, and the important involvement of Ulster players in the team. 
What other choice do they have if they still want an international team to support (fans), or want to make a living (players)?
Most fans just accept it, but others have walked away.
Then again, maybe you don't miss them, what with their not really coming from Ireland and all that...Wacko
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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 6:54pm
Honestly I'd rather listen to GTSQ for the Irish rugby side than having to be stuck on a plane with the self-righteous egg chasing supporters belting out Ireland's Call. 

That was soft rock cocaine enthusiasts Fleetwood Mac
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Het-field View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I don’t understand why a cookie should be given to fans who “respected the Republic’s anthem”. That’s just basic common courtesy and a generally observed phenomenon across the board. What else would they do?

I'm not saying they should be rewarded, I'm merely saying they should not be disrespected (by being told they're not really "Irish")

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Only if you want to see this as some implicit repudiation, then you will believe that. But nothing could be further from the truth. Simply put, it was a different time, and at best a ball drop. Its a non issue really.

Cannot you see the implicit insult?

"We want to pick you because it suits us, but we don't want to accept you're really "Irish" like the other players"

Which may be a non-issue for you, but can you imagine the row if the shoe had been on the other foot?
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I fully appreciate that when the time comes, a new anthem, a new flag, new symbols etc will all be adopted. That is something I will welcome in a new, pluralist, united entity. But in 2007 the convention remained as it was.

No, the convention in 2007 was that GSTQ should have been played. Now I don't for one moment suggest that that should have happened - that would have been ridiculously inflammatory - but surely "the time had come" then to adopt a new convention?

I mean, you still haven't explained what is wrong with simply playing Ireland's Call, home and away?

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

And I still know loads of Ulster fans who still support the team regardless, and the important involvement of Ulster players in the team. 
What other choice do they have if they still want an international team to support (fans), or want to make a living (players)?
Most fans just accept it, but others have walked away.
Then again, maybe you don't miss them, what with their not really coming from Ireland and all that...Wacko

At worst it was a dropped ball. It was in no way a repudiation of anybody’s Irishness. That certainly would not have been intended, or an intentional outcome. It’s something for talking heads to get riled about, and nothing more. An awkward situation that was handled poorly.

I’d have no problem with moving exclusively to Ireland’s Call. None at all. And when the time comes a new anthem entirely. But Irish Rugby has always been unbelievably accommodating and have played people from both sides of the divide, historically. Given the overall attitudes and approaches, the logical conclusion is that it was an honest error of judgement. And unless you are looking to be insulted. 
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Jackal View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 11:55pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Jackal Jackal wrote:

If the UK countries applied to join UEFA nowadays then they wouldn't be left in. It's why Jersey was refused. UEFA now only let's real countries join. 

You don't understand how these things work (and it's FIFA who need to be satisfied, not the Confederations).

Anyhow, FIFA doesn't recognise countries/states/nations/call-them-what-you-like.

Instead they recognise Associations. Which is why they have 211 Members, while the UN has only 193.

Now it is true that recently that they introduced a rule requiring new members also to be UN members, but that was only to exclude a few micro-applicants like Jersey or Greenland etc.

But if the four British Associations had to re-apply, then you could be damned sure they'd find a way of letting us in, if only for political reasons. In the same way as eg they've admitted non-UN members like Kosovo and Palestine, or still retain Hong Kong and Macao even after those territories reverted to China.
Of course, there's no big association left to join. I suppose if the Northern Cypriot league started giving players 100 grand a week etc then they'd let them join FIFA and UEFA.
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