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No easy games in International Football

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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2016 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

San Marino, Gibraltar & Liechtenstein should be a walk in the park for any sort of half decent team. 


Luxembourg and Faroe Islands have had some good results over the past few years so I'm not surprised they got decent results this week (I know Luxembourg were beaten last night).


I would never class Belarus or Kazakhstan as whipping boys/minnows. They are always difficult opponents. I've no idea why Serbia are on your list.


Sorry but your expectations must be low. 
We should be annihilating teams from Pot 5 downwards, the only exception is Georgia away, but everyone knows about that now, it's so predictable they're just going to defend with 11 men in their own half for the entire 90 minutes and maybe snatch a goal if the other teams commits too heavily.
That isn't football, Gibraltar played more positive football than that ffs.
 


Belarus have always been a tough nut in qualifying, between having lads playing in the Russian top flight and regularly in the CL with Bate they aren't a bad side.

The Kazakhs have improved slowly but surely since leaving Asia too, it took a last minute Kevin Doyle strike for us to neat them in Astana!

You also have clubs from the likes of Belarus and Kazakhstan regularly competing at the highest level in Europe. There is big money in Kazakh football at the minute the calibre of player is getting much higher.

We wouldn't destroy either side imo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Amsterdam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 8:50am
These results all show that the European Qualifying groups are by far the hardest to get out of.

While in a way it's good to see the spots 2-5 all becoming much more competitive and close, it's also a worrying trend for us. 

These countries are putting a huge effort in to ensure a good technical and tactical base to build upon and are catching up with the traditional European 'Mid-table' teams like ourselves.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shakeyshamrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 9:20am
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Sorry but your expectations must be low. 
We should be annihilating teams from Pot 5 downwards, the only exception is Georgia away, but everyone knows about that now, it's so predictable they're just going to defend with 11 men in their own half for the entire 90 minutes and maybe snatch a goal if the other teams commits too heavily.
That isn't football, Gibraltar played more positive football than that ffs.
 

But that is football.. defending is just as much part of the game as attacking. You're not under any obligation to play the game any particular way, once what you do is inside the rules then you can do what you like.. You may not find it attractive, but it most definitely IS football. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 11:22am
I'd have Gibraltar below the likes of San Marino and Andorra to be honest. No way should they be playing international football in the UEFA zone. They'd be better off doing an Israel and seeing if the AFC or Oceania or somewhere like that will accept them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 11:53am
Originally posted by shakeyshamrock shakeyshamrock wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Sorry but your expectations must be low. 
We should be annihilating teams from Pot 5 downwards, the only exception is Georgia away, but everyone knows about that now, it's so predictable they're just going to defend with 11 men in their own half for the entire 90 minutes and maybe snatch a goal if the other teams commits too heavily.
That isn't football, Gibraltar played more positive football than that ffs.
 

But that is football.. defending is just as much part of the game as attacking. You're not under any obligation to play the game any particular way, once what you do is inside the rules then you can do what you like.. You may not find it attractive, but it most definitely IS football. 

It was more of a figure of speech but the point being is their game plan is bore teams to death with their ultra defensive mindset and it's definitely not fun to observe.
Gibraltar concede tons because they come out to play football and create half chances for themselves, although they are probably the worst nation in UEFA I appreciate that more than sitting back for as 11 for 90 minutes.
It's having personal advantages for the Gibraltar players too, the keeper's now playing in English football, low tier but he's at a Professional English club whereas he was literally a nobody before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GB 1HughJarse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 10:40am
Not any huge shocks after 1st round of games this weekend, however;

Luxembourg 0-1 Sweden (Lux ranked 145, Swe ranked 41), only a 1 goal win.

Azerbaijan 1-0 Norway (Azer ranked 133, Nor ranked 70).

Scotland 1-1 Lithuania (Sco ranked 44, Lith ranked 117).

Latvia 0-2 Faroes (Lat ranked 95, Faroes ranked 111) I was surprised that the Faroes were ranked this high.

England 2-0 Malta (Eng ranked 12, Malta ranked 176). Can't be too happy with only a 2 goal win over a team ranked 164 places lower than you.

And finally, Ireland 1-0 Georgia (Ire ranked 31, Georgia ranked 137), over 100 places diff in rankings.

By the way Moldova are ranked 161.

No easy games? Or does this prove that the rankings are garbage?

Personally I think the results from Europe and Sth America need to be weighted even higher, as World Cups prove (apart from the odd Asian/African/American quarter or semi finalist) that Europe and Sth America are streets ahead.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenny82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 10:53am
Very few teams in Europe now where teams like ourselves would be expected to win by more than 2 or 3 goals.

I used to do accumulators on international football all the time. The odds were brutal but very rarely would there be an upset.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 10:59am
There are really only 3-4 whipping boys. Rest will give ourselves a threat.

Not just the minnows but if you look at mid ranked sides and top sides, every group has 4 very good sides with some even with 3 top sides. Will be getting harder and harder to qualify for a world cup. This may be our best chance in a while
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cathalthesmart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 11:00am
Lets be honest, Georgia aren't rely the 137th best team in the world, I'd certainly have them in the top 90 or 80. A team that can pass the ball around with the composer they had in the first half are not ranked 137th in the world. Malta had an amazing keeper and England had a yesman coach so yeah. Lithuania I feel will be a tough customer this campaign bare in mind they lead Slovenia 2-0 at half time in there first match. There are no easy games in Europe however I'd say Moldova are as close as you get to one outside of the whipping boys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 11:10am
The rankings are just a rule of thumb but they are the best way of estimating a team's ability, Georgia are where they are for a reason. Despite playing very well in their two opening games they have nothing but two losses to show for it, I hope it doesn't affect their confidence tonight.
Most teams in Europe these days have professional coaches and a well organised system, any team that thinks they only have to turn up is in for a rude awakening, especially those thinking about a second game in a double-header etc. I believe an element of that was certainly visible in our players on Thursday and while the buck must stop with the gaffer, I think in this situation it must rest with individuals, the rollicking at half-time had an impact, maybe he should have given it before the game! Hopefully they get it tonight! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 11:17am
I think if we had of really required it, we could have stepped up a gear against georgia (e.g. going a goal down or drawing heading into the last few minutes).

Will be interesting to see how Wales do againt them this evening. Hopefully they will use their display (which deserved a point) as a platform to also give Wales a game.

Would predict a wales 2-0 win though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 11:23am
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

I think if we had of really required it, we could have stepped up a gear against georgia (e.g. going a goal down or drawing heading into the last few minutes).

Will be interesting to see how Wales do againt them this evening. Hopefully they will use their display (which deserved a point) as a platform to also give Wales a game.

Would predict a wales 2-0 win though
I'm not sure about that, we had too many passengers at that point that the Georgians were on top and had no midfield player willing to take hold of the game, I'm not sure we could have found a way out that easily. I think their confidence will be jaded, two performances where they were the better team and nothing to show for it, hope I am wrong though. I think these games haven't always suited Wales, they seem to prefer to counter, but Bale often pulls them through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OnTheOneRoad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 11:42am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

I think if we had of really required it, we could have stepped up a gear against georgia (e.g. going a goal down or drawing heading into the last few minutes).

Will be interesting to see how Wales do againt them this evening. Hopefully they will use their display (which deserved a point) as a platform to also give Wales a game.

Would predict a wales 2-0 win though
I'm not sure about that, we had too many passengers at that point that the Georgians were on top and had no midfield player willing to take hold of the game, I'm not sure we could have found a way out that easily. I think their confidence will be jaded, two performances where they were the better team and nothing to show for it, hope I am wrong though. I think these games haven't always suited Wales, they seem to prefer to counter, but Bale often pulls them through.

They can't rely on that forever. He has dragged them through some games they were really struggling - Andorra springs to mind. I don't honestly think that the night that fails is tonight but it will eventually.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strazdas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by Cathalthesmart Cathalthesmart wrote:

Lets be honest, Georgia aren't rely the 137th best team in the world, I'd certainly have them in the top 90 or 80. A team that can pass the ball around with the composer they had in the first half are not ranked 137th in the world. Malta had an amazing keeper and England had a yesman coach so yeah. Lithuania I feel will be a tough customer this campaign bare in mind they lead Slovenia 2-0 at half time in there first match. There are no easy games in Europe however I'd say Moldova are as close as you get to one outside of the whipping boys.

Yes, I'd have Georgia at around 80 or 90.....maybe at around the same level as that Lithuanian team that drew with Scotland last night.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 2:12pm
I actually disagree, and I feel international football is one of the few categories of international football which provides very easy games. 20 years ago there were plenty of easy games, where the opposition posed little or no threat to teams of moderate quality. I would include the majority of the teams which came about as a result of the break-up of the Soviet Union, and the break up of Yugoslavia. As time went on, a number of these teams improved, and are not part of coterie of teams who will be difficult to beat, even at the best of times, but are still liable to "go down" under strenuous circumstances. Look at Armenia last night against Romania. Armenia are a decent team who were reduced down to 10 men and capitulated. Ditto Estonia in 2011 who fell apart against us in the Play-Offs after20 minutes. Yes, in the mid 1990s these teams did pull off a few noticeable coups (our 1997 defeat to Macedonia, the Netherlands 1-0 defeat to Belarus in 1995, and Wales 5-0 thumping by Georgia in 1995) but these were often explicable, or more down to poor performances by the higher ranked team, rather than any particularly well crafted performances by the lower ranked team.

Today, the likes of Albania have improved to the point of being a recognisably decent team, while Latvia, Slovenia, and Slovakia have all made it through to international tournaments. Estonia have made play-offs. However, for the most part the best results their contemporaries have achieved are against former strong teams who are going through a serious bad patch. Alternatively, they have made it very difficult for stronger teams to win games, and have often pushed them to the wire. Essentially, these are no longer easy games, but I would suggest that these are often games that teams make harder for themselves.

However, in terms of easy games, the likes of Liechtenstein, San Marino, Gibraltar, Kosovo, Luxembourg, and Andorra are "Easy" and should be viewed as such. Anything less than large wins against these teams, for those with realistic aspirations to attend major tournaments, is not acceptable. At second level, teams like Moldova, Faroe Islands, Belarus and Malta would be relatively easy, and beatable. Beyond that, teams like Cyprus, Kazakstan, Azerbaijan, Lithuania, Latvia and Finland are banana skins, while former powers like Norway, Bulgaria are beatable, but whose reputation sustains them. After that, no team would be a pushover, and would certainly not be an "easy game".

However, unlike in the European Club game, there are certainly "easy games". Its just the number of such games has greatly diminished as teams have utilised their two decades of experience to render themselves hard to beat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SByrne24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 2:16pm
Georgia defeated Spain not so long ago.... they also deserved something v Austria. They're a lot better then 80/90 they've improved massively, I believe Serbia will drop points there for definite and Wales, I'm looking forward this evening to see how Wales play v a packed side were they won't be able to counter attack which is their main tactic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 3:30pm
Malta was not a tough game for England. England finished with 80% possession and Malta registered their first shot in the 88th minute and it was off-target ffs LOL

Just because the scorelines was low doesn't mean it was 'tough' 

If anything Northern Ireland struggled more against San Marino and they ended up with more goals, 1st half was really cagey.

Aside from Gibraltar all the 6th seed teams do is just hoy 11 men in their own box and hope for a draw, and that apparently makes International games 'tougher'  


Edited by coyne - 09 Oct 2016 at 3:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Dugs Dugs wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Definitely agree with this within UEFA

The top seeds are still great (Germany, France), the bottom seeds are still crap (The rock, Andorra) but what we are seeing is the gap between the 2nd and 5th seeds becoming very narrow.

The pool of player and tactics are much better than 20 years ago.


i don't think France are great, yes they have some excellent players but i would'nt fear them. they were awful last night i thought. Only really Germany and on their day Spain would i really not want to face(within europe now im talking). other than that theres nothing much between a lot of teams.


But France like Germany, Spain, Italy etc always qualify for the major tournaments.
It's teams like Switzerland I'm in awe off... they have made the last 3 world cups!

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