National stereotype names - what's in, what's out? - You Boys in Green Forum

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sid waddell View Drop Down

Roy Keane

On a dark desert highway

Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 9:19am

Roberto Baggio wrote:

You’re proving my point with your last two posts Sid, that everything is out

How?

You're running with the "cancel culture" meme which is designed specifically to advance the far right's ideology

So called "cancel culture" is either i) a real thing - in which case it's a fraud and a lie as the people who push the term "cancel culture" tend to be the biggest "cancellers" of the lot, or ii) it doesn't exist

A fraud or it doesn't exist - which is it in your view?

You've made zero contribution to the thread to explain your views

Generalised, venomous kicking down Tory/UKIP style vilification of the disadvantaged and marginalised society should very much be out

Stuff like "bin dipppers" should certainly be out as it's a generalised, venomous and dehumanising slur against both Liverpudlians and poor and working class people which is designed to serve the narratives of the Tory press

Whereas I can remain free to call Manchester City slave owners and paedophile protectors, because it's taking aim at a vile, despotic regime and those who protected paedophiles

I also remain free to call Manchester City supporters Trumpbots, because many of them act like it, their social media behaviour is very reminiscent of actual Trump supporting bots and trolls, you would be an example there

Funnily enough such people seem to reserve a lot of their venom for actual Manchester City supporters who can exercise critical thinking like David Conn, and, eh, I can't think of any others at the moment, but I'm sure there have to be some others

Edited by sid waddell - 03 Aug 2020 at 9:24am

Roberto Baggio View Drop Down

Robbie Keane

UNBELIEVABLE JEFF

Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 37294

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 9:47am

So to sum up, in Sid's opinion Jocks, Paddys and Taffs are not offensive and are ok to use, but once you bring race into it its a definite no no as are any jibes at Liverpool fans

Also Sid - lets start a thread listing terms some people will find offensive, but if anyone says that they are all offensive and shouldn't be used then its "cancel culture"

So in other words Sid can preach to people what they should and shouldn't be offended by and if they disagree they are "cancellers" or "snowflakes" or "virtue signallers" or some other term invented in the last couple of years

Get ya now

Now keep you going with the same old broken record rhetoric about Trump, Man City and racism on every thread like a good lad there. Its so intriguing.

Edited by Roberto Baggio - 03 Aug 2020 at 9:51am

sid waddell View Drop Down

Roy Keane

On a dark desert highway

Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 10:24am

Roberto Baggio wrote:

So to sum up, in Sid's opinion Jocks, Paddys and Taffs are not offensive and are ok to use, but once you bring race into it its a definite no no as are any jibes at Liverpool fans

Also Sid - lets start a thread listing terms some people will find offensive, but if anyone says that they are all offensive and shouldn't be used then its "cancel culture"

Get ya now

Now keep you going with the same old broken record rhetoric about Trump, Man City and racism on every thread like a good lad there. Its so intriguing.

I've quite reasonably explained why certain terms should not be used and also taken on board the view of an actual Scottish person about why he doesn't like the term "Jock"

You haven't engaged with anything I've said, or indeed what Ersatz Thistle or pre madonna have said

You aren't engaging in good faith at all and are only using buzzwords and a horrible tabloid meme

It's really weird that you bring up the "cancel culture" meme as a jibe at me because I'm not the person using it - you are

The "cancel culture" meme is something that is used to advance right wing ideology by portraying "the left" (with which I am widely associated on this forum) as wanting to silence people

It's a meme that is used to protect power and privilege, and to sh*t on the marginalised and disadvantaged

I think you're not engaging in good faith because you know you don't have any real argument but are doing that INTERNET thing where you're prepared to dig in and defend a wrong position out of some weird sense of INTERNET persona pride

I think you're also secretly embarrassed by Manchester City's horrible associations with a despotic regime and the rotten events that took place in their past regarding child abuse but feel that INTERNET sense of duty to airbrush that from existence

I find it weird that you would object to discussions about racism, as I've said before, a lot of white people get weirdly paranoid and start playing the fake victim when a discussion about racism or generalised hatred takes them out of their comfort zone

Edited by sid waddell - 03 Aug 2020 at 10:32am

Roberto Baggio View Drop Down

Robbie Keane

UNBELIEVABLE JEFF

Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 37294

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 10:41am

My belief is that all of the terms you listed on your opening post cannot be used in this day and age, in a world that has gone mad with political correctness.

I said that on the previous page

Do you honestly think it would be acceptable during a world cup for Darragh Maloney to come on RTE or Gary Lineker on the BBC to say - "and welcome to the first day of the round of 16, today we've some fantastic games in store, its the Jocks vs the Krauts followed by the Frogs vs the Wops"

Are you seriously asking if any of this would be acceptable?

Are you out of your mind asking this question? you of all people.

Edited by Roberto Baggio - 03 Aug 2020 at 10:48am

coyne

Paul McGrath

Joined: 17 Aug 2013
Location: Sunderland
Status: Offline
Points: 15881

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 11:05am

Don’t bother arguing with Sid RB. He’s never wrong. Just nod your head at the post or yawn and move along.

The O’Shea 2.0. 1 of em is bad enough.

Edited by coyne - 03 Aug 2020 at 11:08am

Zinedine Kilbane 110 View Drop Down

Jack Charlton

Man City records obsession

Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Dundalk
Status: Offline
Points: 9647

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 11:25am

FFS

This thread needs to be removed.

Where is BSM when you need him.

Flanno7hi

Liam Brady

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Location: Chester
Status: Offline
Points: 2614

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 11:53am

I would say it is always better to avoid saying these things at all. It is not up to me to decide if saying jock or taff etc is offensive it is up to the person.

The father in law is quite racist and an idiot and will argue that saying the p word to describe someone from Pakistan is fine because it relates to where they are from, I've tried to explain that it is up to the particular people to decide if that is ok or not.

had it myself when I moved to England, had some ex army **** in my aerospace job in Burnley call me a Paddy a few times, it was said to put me down.

I asked him did he have a problem with me and Irish people? He said it again and said that's what they were called in the army. I explained that he was not in the army anymore and that someone from my background wouldn't be joining the british army.

He kept on saying it, in front of colleagues and bosses so I asked him if he wanted to chat about it outside after work in a meeting one day (I'm no hard man, I was expecting to get my head kicked in) but he decided to say oh i'm only jokin and seemed to avoid me after that.

It's a all about context isn't it? If one of my French colleagues or African colleagues had called me a paddy I probably wouldn't have taken it as badly but from and Englishman and an ex brit at that it did piss me off.

I guess I would try to avoid being like that guy by just avoid saying things that could be taken as offensive.

Edited by Flanno7hi - 03 Aug 2020 at 11:55am

Our City. Our Community. Our Club
IG @flanno_7hi

sid waddell View Drop Down

Roy Keane

On a dark desert highway

Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 12:04pm

Roberto Baggio wrote:

My belief is that all of the terms you listed on your opening post cannot be used in this day and age, in a world that has gone mad with political correctness.

I said that on the previous page

Expand on this, please

A lot of the terms referenced on this thread are still widely used

Paddies, Jocks, Tans, Taffs, Frogs, Krauts, Argies, Yanks, Ruskies, Convicts are definitely still used without any repercussion

Your post here seems to imply that you're deeply unhappy that not all of the terms referenced here are seen as acceptable to use

That includes terms like "Paki", "nip" and "chink"

Do you think it's "political correctness" gone mad that these terms are widely seen as unacceptable?

Does that also apply to the other n word?

The phrase you use "a world that has gone mad with political correctness" seems to display a complete refusal to engage with the concept that terms of generalised hatred should not be used, and also displays a belief (a wrong belief) that the people who want to use these terms are the real victims

The notion that people who want to use generalised terms of hatred and incitement to hatred against traditionally marginalised peoples, but feel they cannot do so because "political correctness" - that these "anti-PC" people could be victims of "oppression"? I find that totally ludicrous

"Cancel culture" and "political correctness gone mad" are right-wing tabloid memes deliberately designed for purposes of crude reductionism and the destruction of any sort of critical thinking, in the service of right-wing interests and the protection of white, male, straight, imperialist power and privilege

Edited by sid waddell - 03 Aug 2020 at 12:05pm

Roberto Baggio View Drop Down

Robbie Keane

UNBELIEVABLE JEFF

Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 37294

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 12:09pm

sid waddell wrote:

The phrase you use "a world that has gone mad with political correctness" seems to display a complete refusal to engage with the concept that terms of generalised hatred should not be used, and also displays a belief (a wrong belief) that the people who want to use these terms are the real victims

On the contrary

I've said three times now that none of those words on the opening post on this thread should be used in 2020. You seem to be failing to grasp or accept my simple answer to the question you pose on the opening post.

You're the one trying to defend some of them and dictate which ones are offensive and which ones aren't.

Don't use any of them is the easy solution. Each of them is going to offend a lot of people.

Another silly thread to give you a chance to get on your soapbox and preach about racism, your favourite subject. Ohhh look at me i'm so knowledgeable and intelligent about everything to do with racism that i'm going to dedicate every thread to it.

Edited by Roberto Baggio - 03 Aug 2020 at 12:09pm

sid waddell View Drop Down

Roy Keane

On a dark desert highway

Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 12:09pm

Roberto Baggio wrote:

My belief is that all of the terms you listed on your opening post cannot be used in this day and age, in a world that has gone mad with political correctness.

I said that on the previous page

Are you seriously asking if any of this would be acceptable?

Are you out of your mind asking this question? you of all people.

Well I don't think that's ever happened, ever

They are TV presenters of whom a level of gravitas is expected

It's not as if Peter Dimmock or Kenneth Wolstenholme or David Coleman or Brian Moore or Des Lynam or Bill O'Herlihy were doing that back in the day, I don't think so at least

The way you frame this implies that that did happen in the past, and that something of value in discourse has been taken away

I don't see that at all

sid waddell View Drop Down

Roy Keane

On a dark desert highway

Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 12:15pm

Roberto Baggio wrote:

On the contrary

I've said three times now that none of those words on the opening post on this thread should be used in 2020. You seem to be failing to grasp or accept my simple answer to the question you pose on the opening post.

You're the one trying to defend some of them and dictate which ones are offensive and which ones aren't.

Don't use any of them is the easy solution. Each of them is going to offend a lot of people.

You've expressed anger (why are you angry?) that terms of generalised hatred should not be seen as acceptable (hence your use of the "world gone mad due to political correctness" meme) and you're also treating all these terms as equal in their acceptability/unacceptability as the case may be

These terms are not equal

"Mick" or "Paddy" or "Jock" or "Frog" is not equal to "Paki"

sid waddell View Drop Down

Roy Keane

On a dark desert highway

Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 12:18pm

coyne wrote:

Don’t bother arguing with Sid RB. He’s never wrong. Just nod your head at the post or yawn and move along.

Roberto Baggio wrote:

Bizarre reactions

"Where does it stop, I ask you, where does it stop!?"

Roberto Baggio View Drop Down

Robbie Keane

UNBELIEVABLE JEFF

Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 37294

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 12:19pm

Where did I express anger?

Where did I say they were equal?

You can go and murder someone in the street or you can go and steal their wallet. Both are wrong and shouldn't be done, but no one is implying they're equal acts.

You're making a lot of assumptions to get me embroiled in a debate on your favourite subject.

All those terms are out, for me. That's my answer to your question. End of.

sid waddell View Drop Down

Roy Keane

On a dark desert highway

Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 12:31pm

Flanno7hi wrote:

I guess I would try to avoid being like that guy by just avoid saying things that could be taken as offensive.

In general I think the use of some of these terms is mostly about context but the misunderstanding of context or the deliberate clouding or obliteration of context is where the problems can lie

There is a concerted far right campaign internationally to obliterate context and to try and legitimise the use of terms which I think the overwhelming majority of people would see as unacceptable and despicable

In this country there is a widespread and deliberate campaign to try and legitimise the use of the term "knacker" as used in reference to Travellers

A lot of Irish people seem either publicly or privately angry that the word is largely seen as unacceptable - they want to use it

That only comes from a position of horrible racist bigotry

Yet most of those same people would deny being racist

Green Devil View Drop Down

Robbie Keane

Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again

Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Location: Barbados
Status: Offline
Points: 22173

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 12:37pm

Roberto Baggio wrote:

On the contrary

You're the one trying to defend some of them and dictate which ones are offensive and which ones aren't.

Don't use any of them is the easy solution. Each of them is going to offend a lot of people.

Another silly thread to give you a chance to get on your soapbox and preach about racism, your favourite subject. Ohhh look at me i'm so knowledgeable and intelligent about everything to do with racism that i'm going to dedicate every thread to it.

That's it in a nutshell....

One look back at the countless unfunny ramblings of his on numerous threads in the ROTW section back that up.

"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"

Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan

Flanno7hi

Liam Brady

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Location: Chester
Status: Offline
Points: 2614

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 12:39pm

So just avoid using all of those terms you mention then. Easy.

I would have said knacker a lot as a young fella, I also would have called things gay when I meant they were uncool or lame. I wouldn't do either now as they are offensive and times have moved on. Just avoid using terms that describe a group in this lumped together way that may be construed as offensive.

Our City. Our Community. Our Club
IG @flanno_7hi

Green Devil View Drop Down

Robbie Keane

Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again

Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Location: Barbados
Status: Offline
Points: 22173

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 12:41pm

Flanno7hi wrote:

So just avoid using all of those terms you mention then. Easy.

Brilliant post Clap

"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"

Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan

Roberto Baggio View Drop Down

Robbie Keane

UNBELIEVABLE JEFF

Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 37294

Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 12:42pm

Flanno7hi wrote:

So just avoid using all of those terms you mention then. Easy.