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The O'Shea View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 1:21pm
We're not going to get at least one of Cannon, Fraser, and Delap - I think we should just accept that. Right now,you'd have to say Cannon is the priority to cap or Delap if he's willing, Fraser would not have come anywhere close to earning a senior cap given what our other attackers are doing at the moment but would be worth an U-21 call up if he's willing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

We're not going to get at least one of Cannon, Fraser, and Delap - I think we should just accept that. Right now,you'd have to say Cannon is the priority to cap or Delap if he's willing, Fraser would not have come anywhere close to earning a senior cap given what our other attackers are doing at the moment but would be worth an U-21 call up if he's willing.

I wouldn't cap any of them unless they wanted it. Simple. I'd rather be sh1t forever than cap someone who's heart isn't really in it. That's my philosphy. Just dosen't feel right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 1:54pm
That's why you call them up. If they accept, well then de facto they "want" the call up. It isn't confusing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

That's why you call them up. If they accept, well then de facto they "want" the call up. It isn't confusing.

Yes ok fair point, but capping someone who "isnt that good" young just cause you don't want England to get them when they might become "good". This i'm not into.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greenie50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 2:02pm
Yes, cap him.

An 18yo striker good enough to be getting first team minutes for a PL club more than warrants a cap. He can go back with the U21s after.

If he refuses a senior cap, or wants time to consider his options, that's fine, give him time, but then you don't pick him for the U21s where he's taking caps from other players while he's uncommitted. 

We have a hard enough time producing our own players without wittingly producing players for other nations on top of that.

What you also don't do is start picking him for the U21s, while being scared to ask him if he wants a senior cap, because you just want to cross your fingers and hope he sticks with us.


Edited by Greenie50 - 02 Feb 2024 at 3:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bandwagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

That's why you call them up. If they accept, well then de facto they "want" the call up. It isn't confusing.

Yes ok fair point, but capping someone who "isnt that good" young just cause you don't want England to get them when they might become "good". This i'm not into.


Not just once either, you need 4 caps to tie him down these days, thats 4 caps taken away from other players whos dream it was/is to represent their country even if its just the once.

Id rather lads like Armstrong and Emakhu get them than someone not fully on board.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 10 Box Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

That's why you call them up. If they accept, well then de facto they "want" the call up. It isn't confusing.

Yes ok fair point, but capping someone who "isnt that good" young just cause you don't want England to get them when they might become "good". This i'm not into.


Not just once either, you need 4 caps to tie him down these days, thats 4 caps taken away from other players whos dream it was/is to represent their country even if its just the once.

Id rather lads like Armstrong and Emakhu get them than someone not fully on board.

That's it - the one cap entrapment utilised so well by Wales isn't as effective anymore. I'd offer the player a place in the squad if its warranted, otherwise go with the 21's and if that is refused well good luck then.


Edited by 10 Box - 02 Feb 2024 at 2:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Greenie50 Greenie50 wrote:

Yes, cap him.

A striker good enough to be getting first team minutes for a PL club more than warrants a cap. He can go back with the U21s after.

If he refuses a senior cap, or wants time to consider his options, that's fine, give him time, but then you don't pick him for the U21s where he's taking caps from other players while he's uncommitted. 

We have a hard enough time producing our own players without wittingly producing players for other nations on top of that.

What you also don't do is start picking him for the U21s, while being scared to ask him if he wants a senior cap, because you just want to cross your fingers and hope he sticks with us.

Excellent post setting out the appropriate modus operandi. Clap

If someone in the FAI was reading this 10 years ago, we'd be featuring in the knock-out stages of international competition.

Granted, it's 3 caps now, but that's what the Nations League is for - ask Conor Bradley.

Regarding do they want it - do you think Andy Townsend would have given 110% captaining us and playing in two world cups if England came in for him when he was 19?  No.  But when he, or Aldridge or Lawrenson etc, got on-board their commitment was ferocious.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zizu Kilbane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 2:59pm
I don't think Delap is going to have a top 6 career.i think we'll get him down the line. 
"Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

That's why you call them up. If they accept, well then de facto they "want" the call up. It isn't confusing.

Yes ok fair point, but capping someone who "isnt that good" young just cause you don't want England to get them when they might become "good". This i'm not into.


Not just once either, you need 4 caps to tie him down these days, thats 4 caps taken away from other players whos dream it was/is to represent their country even if its just the once.

Id rather lads like Armstrong and Emakhu get them than someone not fully on board.

It's still an effective deterrent as they'd have to wait 3 years to change back to England I think. Unless they hit Ferguson-esque form at 18/19 years old, not many guys would be willing to take that chance.


Edited by The O'Shea - 02 Feb 2024 at 3:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eoink21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

I don't think Delap is going to have a top 6 career.i think we'll get him down the line. 

I'm reaching here but is Rory Delap close to Lee Carsley? Note both are from around the Birmingham area and similar age and would have crossed paths for Ireland and Derby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

I don't think Delap is going to have a top 6 career.i think we'll get him down the line. 


Might be no down the line as he could become ineligible if he plays for England U21s next month.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Celticbhoy32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 6:56pm
wales have done it successfully for years. Northern Ireland doing it also. Better to cap a crap player than miss out on another rice 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 7:08pm
Am I right in saying anyone over 21 just needs to be capped once (a la Smodicz and Azaz) and under 21 needs to be capped 3 times in competitive games? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Am I right in saying anyone over 21 just needs to be capped once (a la Smodicz and Azaz) and under 21 needs to be capped 3 times in competitive games? 


Need to be capped four times if you're under 21 but yes it's just one cap if over 21.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maccatacca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2024 at 4:15pm
On at half time for Wolves.

If he’s good enough for a half of Premier League football then he should be in our next squad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SC92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2024 at 2:03pm
First PL start!

Wolves have some big injury woes up front so not suprised this is happening now. Great chance for him but I won't be expecting miracles even though I rate him!
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2024 at 2:40pm
Should be in the next under 21 squad without a doubt, if he's not you'd imagine he's switching to England.
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