You Boys in Green Homepage YBIG Shop
Forum Home Forum Home : International : Republic Of Ireland
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Nadir or Underachieving
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Nadir or Underachieving

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
Baldrick View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
Peyton-tly Pedantic

Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 32091
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 6:46pm
Just checked it out. On 500k a year and a million bonus for qualification for the euros.  100k for back room staff.  

It’s mad we were paying that for Roy Keane alone.  Craziness. 


Anyway the answer is always no if you don’t ask.  
AKA pedantic kunt
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
gazurtoids View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 13 Mar 2015
Location: dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 1751
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gazurtoids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 7:02pm
The gap between top and bottom is not as great as it once was in International football, we should still always be somewhere in the middle....we should be competitive, being 6pts behind Greece with a game to go is not being competitive
Back to Top
Realrover View Drop Down
Ronnie Whelan
Ronnie Whelan


Joined: 20 Dec 2022
Status: Offline
Points: 84
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Realrover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 7:08pm
I'll go one further and say that every Irish team in football (and rugby for that matter) has underachieved from the overly lauded Italia 90 team who reached the quarter final (only just) in a much smaller competition to the current rugby team who ultimately got knocked out when it mattered. We now have a crop of players who aren't as good and are still underachieving. Why? Mentality. Do we genuinely believe in ourselves or just hope things "go our way" if we try hard enough? A great manager can instill that belief in players and a great leader can instill that belief in people. Then over time self-belief becomes part of the culture instead of the current self-doubt.
Back to Top
Baldrick View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
Peyton-tly Pedantic

Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 32091
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by Realrover Realrover wrote:

I'll go one further and say that every Irish team in football (and rugby for that matter) has underachieved from the overly lauded Italia 90 team who reached the quarter final (only just) in a much smaller competition to the current rugby team who ultimately got knocked out when it mattered. We now have a crop of players who aren't as good and are still underachieving. Why? Mentality. Do we genuinely believe in ourselves or just hope things "go our way" if we try hard enough? A great manager can instill that belief in players and a great leader can instill that belief in people. Then over time self-belief becomes part of the culture instead of the current self-doubt.

The 2002 team did not under achieve. 
AKA pedantic kunt
Back to Top
shakeyshamrock View Drop Down
500 Club la la la
500 Club la la la
Avatar

Joined: 25 May 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 575
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shakeyshamrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Realrover Realrover wrote:

I'll go one further and say that every Irish team in football (and rugby for that matter) has underachieved from the overly lauded Italia 90 team who reached the quarter final (only just) in a much smaller competition to the current rugby team who ultimately got knocked out when it mattered. We now have a crop of players who aren't as good and are still underachieving. Why? Mentality. Do we genuinely believe in ourselves or just hope things "go our way" if we try hard enough? A great manager can instill that belief in players and a great leader can instill that belief in people. Then over time self-belief becomes part of the culture instead of the current self-doubt.

The 2002 team did not under achieve. 

Failed to beat a team with 9 men
Back to Top
Realrover View Drop Down
Ronnie Whelan
Ronnie Whelan


Joined: 20 Dec 2022
Status: Offline
Points: 84
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Realrover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 7:25pm
It absolutely underachieved and again choked when needed. A team full of premier league players with one 2nd round appearance in the world Cup and multiple failed qualification attempts to show for it. Also, that Spain team were no great shakes but they got the job done over another team full of top league players because they couldn't close out the game and then missed 3 penalties on the trot. Why? Mentality.
Back to Top
Baldrick View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
Peyton-tly Pedantic

Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 32091
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by Realrover Realrover wrote:

It absolutely underachieved and again choked when needed. A team full of premier league players with one 2nd round appearance in the world Cup and multiple failed qualification attempts to show for it. Also, that Spain team were no great shakes but they got the job done over another team full of top league players because they couldn't close out the game and then missed 3 penalties on the trot. Why? Mentality.

The Spanish team had better players than us in Korea. 

The Swiss and French had better players than us in 2005 also.  

Croatia and Serbia had better players than us in 1999.  

France had better players than us in 2016.  




Edited by Baldrick - 18 Nov 2023 at 7:28pm
AKA pedantic kunt
Back to Top
Stickittotheman View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady
Avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 2276
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 7:32pm
We are underachieving. Was what Mick had in his campaign significantly better than Kenny has had available? I would argue they were much the same and yet Mick had us one goal from qualifying. MON's team that went to the Euros was probably a step above what we have now but not so far ahead that we should be where we currently are. Manager is to blame. No one else. It has been a disastrous failure.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
Back to Top
Realrover View Drop Down
Ronnie Whelan
Ronnie Whelan


Joined: 20 Dec 2022
Status: Offline
Points: 84
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Realrover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 7:41pm
The spanish team were a bit better on paper but were having a poor tournament. They were there for the taking and everybody knew it and we fluffed our chances. The match was a cup final essentially.

The Swiss team wasn't better than ours. The French was.

1999 team and 2016 team are different generations to the 2002 team so not relevant here?
Back to Top
The O'Shea View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong

Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 9360
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

We are underachieving. Was what Mick had in his campaign significantly better than Kenny has had available? I would argue they were much the same and yet Mick had us one goal from qualifying. MON's team that went to the Euros was probably a step above what we have now but not so far ahead that we should be where we currently are. Manager is to blame. No one else. It has been a disastrous failure.

Mick steadied the ship, nothing more. We limped past Gibraltar twice and disgraced ourselves in Georgia. Denmark and Switzerland always had more than us and were going to qualify ahead of us.
We're decent enough..
Back to Top
Baldrick View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
Peyton-tly Pedantic

Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 32091
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by Realrover Realrover wrote:

The spanish team were a bit better on paper but were having a poor tournament. They were there for the taking and everybody knew it and we fluffed our chances. The match was a cup final essentially.

The Swiss team wasn't better than ours. The French was.

1999 team and 2016 team are different generations to the 2002 team so not relevant here?

Sorry the post was that we have underachieved since 1990 so it is relevant.  It’s a bs statement.  
AKA pedantic kunt
Back to Top
Stickittotheman View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady
Avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 2276
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

We are underachieving. Was what Mick had in his campaign significantly better than Kenny has had available? I would argue they were much the same and yet Mick had us one goal from qualifying. MON's team that went to the Euros was probably a step above what we have now but not so far ahead that we should be where we currently are. Manager is to blame. No one else. It has been a disastrous failure.

Mick steadied the ship, nothing more. We limped past Gibraltar twice and disgraced ourselves in Georgia. Denmark and Switzerland always had more than us and were going to qualify ahead of us.

Did they? That would be why we were one goal from qualifying would it? Mick steadied the ship after a disastrous previous 18 months. He laid decent foundations for Kenny to come in. Now look at us. The sooner we move on the better. These last couple of years have been dreadful

Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
Back to Top
Realrover View Drop Down
Ronnie Whelan
Ronnie Whelan


Joined: 20 Dec 2022
Status: Offline
Points: 84
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Realrover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 8:11pm
I'm responding to your "2002 team didn't underachieve" comment, and if you don't think the 1990 team underachieved I don't know what to tell you.
Back to Top
Baldrick View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
Peyton-tly Pedantic

Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 32091
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by Realrover Realrover wrote:

I'm responding to your "2002 team didn't underachieve" comment, and if you don't think the 1990 team underachieved I don't know what to tell you.

They got to a World Cup quarter final and lost to the hosts who happened to be the multi World Cup winning Italy. We lost to a single goal.

I think someone has an inflated idea of the ability of the Irish players.  

Some of our squads have over achieved and some have under achieved but to say every Irish team has under achieved since 1990 is absolute nonsense.  
AKA pedantic kunt
Back to Top
The O'Shea View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong

Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 9360
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

We are underachieving. Was what Mick had in his campaign significantly better than Kenny has had available? I would argue they were much the same and yet Mick had us one goal from qualifying. MON's team that went to the Euros was probably a step above what we have now but not so far ahead that we should be where we currently are. Manager is to blame. No one else. It has been a disastrous failure.

Mick steadied the ship, nothing more. We limped past Gibraltar twice and disgraced ourselves in Georgia. Denmark and Switzerland always had more than us and were going to qualify ahead of us.

Did they? That would be why we were one goal from qualifying would it? Mick steadied the ship after a disastrous previous 18 months. He laid decent foundations for Kenny to come in. Now look at us. The sooner we move on the better. These last couple of years have been dreadful


We were miles off Denmark and Switzerland, absolutely miles off. We had one really good performance under Mick, the home game against Gerogia. There were no foundations laid, it was a once off campaign using basically the same players O'Neill had and trying to get a last qualification out of them - it failed.
We're decent enough..
Back to Top
DC96 View Drop Down
Alan Kernaghan
Alan Kernaghan


Joined: 07 Nov 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 113
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DC96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 9:16pm
It's both. Worst ever player pool combined with a manager who lost the plot about 12-18 months ago and should've been relieved of duties after the Greece home home.

A better coach absolutely cuts out some of our losses, but would we qualify? I'm highly sceptical. You're either trying to play football and failing or not trying to play football and being left behind. In an ideal world you can be pragmatic and combine two approaches, but we still look so so limited.

The future looks a bit better with Ferguson, Moran, Scales and hopefully Collins can develop beyond what he currently is, but football in Ireland is a skeleton devoid of money, coaching and facilities. Now that shipping dozens of schoolboys off to England doesnt work now that they've to compete against the best of the world for gametime and development. Even our PL players, most are in teams that are arguably the worst crop of promoted sides in history, Ogbene aside all look abysmally bad at that level.

FAI are inept, ignored local football for decades while being systematically corrupt. This current period is the consequences of JD's reign coming home to roost, just look at how many decent players we've produced in the past 15 years, barely any. And now we've an FAI with a stayaway CEO, who dont even drawdown 500k in funding they were entitled to due to their ineptitude, which is now frozen because the cronies wont vote for independent directors meaning they cant get funding at all. 

With rare, and temporary exceptions, your football is only ever as good as those who run it, we have a clownshow FAI and a circus of a team as a result. Fix the former and I'd be optimistic of improvements to the latter, but who really harbours any hope of that happening?

We just don't have the infrastructure in Ireland to compete, the odd export will work out, as every study and report has shown, 90% won't, when you're playing with odds that bad you're always up against it, bar a freak generation of players emerging.


Back to Top
Irishangler18 View Drop Down
Joe Lapira
Joe Lapira
Avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2023
Location: Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irishangler18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 12:32am
it’s incredibly simple what has happened. We hired an atrocious manager, who is incapable of achieving results at this level. He continued to play the same way even when it was blatantly obvious that we don’t have the players to do so. We need a pragmatic solution with a qualified coach. 
Back to Top
horsebox View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
Born n bred in darndale.

Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Location: Ireland
Status: Online
Points: 34543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 8:22am
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

We are underachieving. Was what Mick had in his campaign significantly better than Kenny has had available? I would argue they were much the same and yet Mick had us one goal from qualifying. MON's team that went to the Euros was probably a step above what we have now but not so far ahead that we should be where we currently are. Manager is to blame. No one else. It has been a disastrous failure.

Mick steadied the ship, nothing more. We limped past Gibraltar twice and disgraced ourselves in Georgia. Denmark and Switzerland always had more than us and were going to qualify ahead of us.

Talk about exaggerating.


It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.