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Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


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Points: 6327 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2023 at 1:15pm
The intention with these investments by English teams in Scottish or European clubs is usually to get around post-Brexit work permit rules that are restricting them from bringing younger non-UK and Irish players straight into English clubs (Irish players restricted up to 18 but not after that). 

But in doing so they also, more often than not, end up significantly strengthening the club they invest into in the process and bringing in players as well as putting facilities in place that the club wouldn't have previously had access to.

FWIW I think it's only a matter of time before something similar happens in Ireland and one or more English clubs take a significant stake in a League of Ireland club.


Edited by You Tell Me - 27 May 2023 at 1:16pm
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

The intention with these investments by English teams in Scottish or European clubs is usually to get around post-Brexit work permit rules that are restricting them from bringing younger non-UK and Irish players straight into English clubs (Irish players restricted up to 18 but not after that). 

But in doing so they also, more often than not, end up significantly strengthening the club they invest into in the process and bringing in players as well as putting facilities in place that the club wouldn't have previously had access to.

FWIW I think it's only a matter of time before something similar happens in Ireland and one or more English clubs take a significant stake in a League of Ireland club.

It seems a logical next step for English clubs alright and unfortunately it's probably the most likely way for us to see significant investment in training facilities etc. across the country. If we are waiting on the FAI to get things right, it could take quite some time. English club owners have deep enough pockets that buying up an Irish club would barely register on their balance sheets. Given the success of Ferguson and our underage teams more generally, it would seem a no brainer for an English club or two or three to get seriously involved over here in the not too distant future.
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Jack Charlton
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Absolutely. Ferguson, Collins and Bazunu all went over to England at 16. The next generation of young Irish talent can't do that in most cases, but they can still go to Europe. So, what better way for English clubs to get first call on the next Evan Ferguson ahead of European teams - and their rivals in the Premier League - than by going the direct route and setting up a base in Ireland.
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:


Vitoria are a level above the likes of Hearts and Aberdeen, they're co-owned by the Arab/American billionaire owners of Aston Villa and are having a lot of money invested into them at present. (There are some rumours that something similar might be in the pipeline for Hibs with the City Group, but at this point in time Vitoria would be a level above them also).

Having watched Aberdeen try to play football for the last two hours, I'm sticking to my guns on this! Says something that they're the third best team in Scotland...
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Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:


Vitoria are a level above the likes of Hearts and Aberdeen, they're co-owned by the Arab/American billionaire owners of Aston Villa and are having a lot of money invested into them at present. (There are some rumours that something similar might be in the pipeline for Hibs with the City Group, but at this point in time Vitoria would be a level above them also).

Having watched Aberdeen try to play football for the last two hours, I'm sticking to my guns on this! Says something that they're the third best team in Scotland...

Dont want to die in a ditch over this, but maybe have a gander and see how Vitoria do later (18:00) away to Porto.
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:


Vitoria are a level above the likes of Hearts and Aberdeen, they're co-owned by the Arab/American billionaire owners of Aston Villa and are having a lot of money invested into them at present. (There are some rumours that something similar might be in the pipeline for Hibs with the City Group, but at this point in time Vitoria would be a level above them also).

Having watched Aberdeen try to play football for the last two hours, I'm sticking to my guns on this! Says something that they're the third best team in Scotland...

Dont want to die in a ditch over this, but maybe have a gander and see how Vitoria do later (18:00) away to Porto.

Their only result vs the Top 4 teams (Porto, Benfica, Braga, Sporting) in Portugal in 7 matches to date in the League was a 0-0 at home to Benfica early in the season, they lost the return fixture 5-1.
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Kevin Kilbane
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Lads for the love of god, Aberdeen’s best player was in the Portuguese second league last season - where he scored at max 10 goals.
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Jack Charlton
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Johnston subbed off after 20 minutes tonight - hopefully not an injury, it might not be as Vitoria had a player sent off on two minutes, so always going to be a long night for them from there and they may have needed to get a more defensive player on.
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Our most promising player so far this year.. a few posters in previous pages eating humble pie 😂
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Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

Our most promising player so far this year.. a few posters in previous pages eating humble pie 😂

If you told me that it was McGeady out there last night, I'd have believed you.

Hopefully he's more consistent than McGeady was in an Irish shirt. 

Good start!
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Probably one of the first names on the team sheet based on recent performances. Hopefully he can be more than an impact sub. 
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Do we go back to 4-3-3 to fit himself and Ogbene in the team?

A front three of Ogbene-Ferguson-Johnston would be good.
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Do we go back to 4-3-3 to fit himself and Ogbene in the team?

A front three of Ogbene-Ferguson-Johnston would be good.

Possibly. The argument for it now is stronger than it was previously. We now have a centre forward who doesn't necessarily need an out and out second striker alongside him. We have Ogbene and Johnston to play the wide positions, a couple of other options too such as Sykes and Ebosele on the right side. Not a huge amount on the left beyond Johnston (Connolly or Robinson at a push?).

Would probably need to go with a 6 and two 8s in midfield, rather than play a 10 that we don't have.

The other question is how we would line up a back four. Who plays left back? Could go full Pep and play four centre backs (Collins/Egan/O'Shea/Omobamidele)!


Edited by You Tell Me - 21 Jun 2023 at 12:19pm
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Heard him referred to as "Magic Johnston" over the weekend - like it
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Do we go back to 4-3-3 to fit himself and Ogbene in the team?

A front three of Ogbene-Ferguson-Johnston would be good.


Possibly, and in defence that then becomes a 4-5-1 with both wingers dropping back and able to support Ferguson on counter when possession is regained.

Think even either Ogbene or Johnston depending on the opposition with Obafemi and Ferguson as part of the front three. Ferguson likes to drop deep so helps having another forward playing ahead of him.

Make it a 4-4-1-1 in defence with one of the three CMs filling in at RM or LM depending on whether it's Ogbene or Johnston starting.





Edited by J89 - 21 Jun 2023 at 12:28pm
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Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Do we go back to 4-3-3 to fit himself and Ogbene in the team?

A front three of Ogbene-Ferguson-Johnston would be good.


Possibly. The argument for it now is stronger than it was previously. We now have a centre forward who doesn't necessarily need an out and out second striker alongside him. We have Ogbene and Johnston to play the wide positions, a couple of other options too such as Sykes and Ebosele on the right side. Not a huge amount on the left beyond Johnston (Connolly or Robinson at a push?).

Would probably need to go with a 6 and two 8s in midfield, rather than play a 10 that we don't have.

The other question is how we would line up a back four. Who plays left back? Could go full Pep and play four centre backs (Collins/Egan/O'Shea/Omobamidele)!



Omobamidele got destroyed against Leeds when Norwich tried him at LB in a back four. It's a decent idea to put four actual defenders that can defend because our options at FB is mostly wingers that have been converted to FBs.

Ideally for us you'd want a left footer at LB and if I was to pick one of the right footers to push out there it would be O'Shea. Think he's played there the most of all the others bar Scales.
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Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Do we go back to 4-3-3 to fit himself and Ogbene in the team?

A front three of Ogbene-Ferguson-Johnston would be good.

Possibly. The argument for it now is stronger than it was previously. We now have a centre forward who doesn't necessarily need an out and out second striker alongside him. We have Ogbene and Johnston to play the wide positions, a couple of other options too such as Sykes and Ebosele on the right side. Not a huge amount on the left beyond Johnston (Connolly or Robinson at a push?).

Would probably need to go with a 6 and two 8s in midfield, rather than play a 10 that we don't have.

The other question is how we would line up a back four. Who plays left back? Could go full Pep and play four centre backs (Collins/Egan/O'Shea/Omobamidele)!

It'd be fine for away games or games vs elite opposition. Ogbene is reliant on space in behind. Johnston has a bit more guile, but he also needs room to operate in. We haven't seen enough of him yet. It's mainly been vs Latvia and Gibraltar that he's impressed. He did do well vs Greece tbf.

Pep's four centre backs trick is mainly a 3-2-4-1 in possession. Stones drops in at RB when needed.

Unlike City, we don't have the same qualtiy in central areas to really punish teams.


Ferguson

Johnston------McGrath-----Smallbone------Knight

Cullen----Molumby

Egan-----------Collins------Omobamidele

Bazunu
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Do we go back to 4-3-3 to fit himself and Ogbene in the team?

A front three of Ogbene-Ferguson-Johnston would be good.


Possibly. The argument for it now is stronger than it was previously. We now have a centre forward who doesn't necessarily need an out and out second striker alongside him. We have Ogbene and Johnston to play the wide positions, a couple of other options too such as Sykes and Ebosele on the right side. Not a huge amount on the left beyond Johnston (Connolly or Robinson at a push?).

Would probably need to go with a 6 and two 8s in midfield, rather than play a 10 that we don't have.

The other question is how we would line up a back four. Who plays left back? Could go full Pep and play four centre backs (Collins/Egan/O'Shea/Omobamidele)!



Omobamidele got destroyed against Leeds when Norwich tried him at LB in a back four. It's a decent idea to put four actual defenders that can defend because our options at FB is mostly wingers that have been converted to FBs.

Ideally for us you'd want a left footer at LB and if I was to pick one of the right footers to push out there it would be O'Shea. Think he's played there the most of all the others bar Scales.

Would agree with that - O'Shea would be the best of them to play there if you were going to try it. Relative to the quality of central defenders we have we've been poor defensively mainly because our wing backs (other than Coleman) can't defend. The idea behind the Pep thing is pretty simple - just win your battles in that part of the field. Obviously he has access to far better players than us going forward to compensate for the loss of attacking full backs, but with Ferguson supported by the likes of Ogbene and Johnston up top, it might actually work relative to the level we're trying to get to.

One thing I'm sure of - regardless of who the manager is - is that with the fixture list we have coming up in the autumn we have to tighten things up at the back. We're being targeted on the left side of defence in particular, as well as our failure to close the space around the edge of the box.
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