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Mick O'Brien - 1920's/30's Dual International

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Territorial View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 5:15pm
Mick O'Brien (born 1893) gained 4 x Irish Free State (FAIFS) caps between 1927 and 1932 towards the end of his career, having previously won 10 x caps for Ireland (IFA) between 1921 and 1927.

Thing is, it having long been thought (and reported) that he had been born in Kilcock, Co.Kildare, it has now been established by a historian at one of his old clubs, Brentford, that he was actually born in Ushaw Moor, a pit village in Co.Durham.

At that time, the IFA didn't pick anyone who had been born outside of Ireland, so it is thought that he may have pretended to have been born in Kildare in order to qualify.

Does anyone know whether the FAIFS operated a similar rule at the time?

And could there have been others who did the same?




Edited by Territorial - 06 Apr 2020 at 5:17pm
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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tetsujin1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 6:15pm
I don't know if there was a specific policy at the time, but the vast, vast majority of players capped would have been born in Ireland
Two possibilities are
George McKenzie - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McKenzie_(Irish_footballer)
Dick Griffiths - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Griffiths

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theworm2345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 2:09pm
Can't say about the FAIFS, but I have him as the oldest confirmed goalscorer in LOI history.

Edited by theworm2345 - 07 Apr 2020 at 2:11pm
League of Ireland archive with reports back to 91/92 (goalscorers for First Division) now online, plus Twitter: twitter.com/StattoLOI
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

I don't know if there was a specific policy at the time, but the vast, vast majority of players capped would have been born in Ireland
Two possibilities are
George McKenzie - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McKenzie_(Irish_footballer)
Dick Griffiths - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Griffiths

Thanks for those. Can I ask, how did you come up with those two possiblities?

Anyhow, re McKenzie, his brief Wiki entry states he was born in Dublin, though as we know, wiki often isn't reliable without citations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McKenzie_(Irish_footballer)

I did a quick search on the 1911 Irish census record (latest available online) and there's no sign of him. Though if his date of death given as 2006 is correct, then he was almost certainly born after then. It's interesting that his first recorded club is Arthurlie Juniors (Scotland), before starting League football in England.

Re. Griffiths, he's a curious one. Assuming his DoB of 28/09/1907 is correct, then he would have been 3 yrs and 7 months old at the time of the 1911 Census, yet he doesn't show up anywhere on the island. Of course it is possible that he moved outside Ireland with his family when very young. Alternatively, there is one "Richard Griffiths" recorded, but his age is given as 4 (unlikely to be an error) and as it happens, that youngster was living in the Shankill Electoral Ward in Belfast, so if it were him, you might expect an NI link of some sort? (A German stats website also has him listed as having the alternative name of "Robert", but no-one with that name shows up on the census either.)

Meanwhile, there's another interesting candidate, Jack Reynolds. Although born in Blackburn in 1869, and later playing in the town, he was brought up mostly in Ireland (Da was a soldier), apparently had an Antrim accent and signed for Distillery, where he was first capped by Ireland (1890). After five IFA caps, he signed for WBA.

In this (very reliable) blog, it is noted that:
"The move to West Brom in 1891 led to his selection for England, and an end to his Ireland career. This episode also led to the scrapping of selection for another country after five years residence."
https://nifootball.blogspot.com/2006/10/jack-reynolds.html

I must confess, I hadn't heard of any 5 years residence rule, but it was the sort of thing which happened in sport back in those days and its abolition may have been connected with the game beginning to go professional (my speculation).

Meanwhile, Reynolds is unique not only in playing for both Ireland and England, but also for scoring for each against the other!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tetsujin1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 4:18pm
I have a list of every capped player, I narrowed it down to players who had appeared for the FAIFS, then checked their wiki entries for place of birth. Missed George McKenzie's place of birth.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gashley Grimes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2020 at 7:42pm
https://www.oncloudseven.com/170-mick-obrien/

Not sure how accurate the above is, but found it online.

The house he lived in still stands in Blyth, in the NE of England.                  Blyth play in green and white as they were presented with shirts from Celtic, Mick was one of the first players to transfer from the club also to Celtic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gspain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2020 at 10:06pm
Shay Brennan is generally considered the first English born player to play for us.

Obviously this is no longer correct. 
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