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Mick McCarthy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

I'm a Mick fan mostly based off his 1st tenure.   I do think he has changed somewhat and is now more conservative and risk averse. Now that may be down to having one year with the team or it may be down to getting older and less idealistic.  Results have been decent so far but nothing out of the ordinary.
All I want is for EIRE to play the way TE did against the Germans.  They played very well I thought and were attacking and entertaining like us back in the old Lansdowne circa 1998. They lost but they lost fighting and another day with a bit of luck would have won that game.  They are doing things right. Our game plan seems to be to pox draws every time we play anyone half decent and then wait for someone else to slip up allowing us to stumble blindly over the finish line. It's just not cricket.


You should have a read of this if you haven't seen it already. 


There's quite a bit of truth in it too. 


By contrast, we have Kenny rightly being praised, I see his coaches Andrews (a vocal critic of Trap - after he retired- & MON in his pundit capacity) and Crawford also coming in for deserved praise as progressive coaches. 

We will see the other side of that coin when Kenny loses his first game though, and there will be little let up from the very start. It's taken Klopp 3 years with a hell of a lot of resources, to get Liverpool competitive at the very top, taken Poch much the same time at Spurs- If we want a change, I think Kenny can be the man to deliver that, but it isn't going to happen overnight, regardless of what 11 he picks. 

That's where Early's article is correct, some fans just want to go on the piss at the tournaments, how we get there & what we do when we get there isn't overly relevant to them. 2 conservative managers in Mick & Hughton took 50% of the Ybig poll when MON was sacked, and we have already had posters giving the opinion Kenny will be a disaster. 

I honestly believe we have to change, if nothing else we are about 10 years behind already, but we are going to need a strong FAI to either back Kenny through a possible dodgy results patch, or if they have to replace him, to pick someone who can improve us, not just make us very difficult to beat as I'm sure Chris Hughton for example,  would. 



 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:17pm
We are well more than 10 years behind imo. That's why the retention of MON and the appointment of McCarthy is an absolute disaster. We had a huge window there to rebuild under a progressive manager. It didn't have to be Kenny btw. 2 years where we could rebuild and if we failed in these qualifiers, we were almost guaranteed a playoff spot. We could have been in a very different place next March in those playoffs (I still strongly believe we will be in them) if the FAI had made a decent decision for once.

Kenny will be on a hiding to nothing when he comes in. A massive transition will now have to take place. He won't have enough games, and he'll also have the World Cup qualifiers to negotiate while in this transition. It is a far far higher bar to qualify for the WC than the Euros, a massive reason to have started proper changes after that Danish defeat in late 2017.

People seem to think that Kenny will have a great chance to transition the team with a handful of Nations League games. We have 10 Euro 2020 qualifiers where you could be rebuilding now with the guarantee of still being only 2 games away from the Euros next year via the playoffs. You will never again get such an opportunity to rebuild with so little pressure on.

I think it will be years before people realise the damage done by this 2 year stint of MON and McCarthy. It is a black hole in Irish senior football, and it's going to be extremely tough to get out of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

I'm a Mick fan mostly based off his 1st tenure.   I do think he has changed somewhat and is now more conservative and risk averse. Now that may be down to having one year with the team or it may be down to getting older and less idealistic.  Results have been decent so far but nothing out of the ordinary.
All I want is for EIRE to play the way TE did against the Germans.  They played very well I thought and were attacking and entertaining like us back in the old Lansdowne circa 1998. They lost but they lost fighting and another day with a bit of luck would have won that game.  They are doing things right. Our game plan seems to be to pox draws every time we play anyone half decent and then wait for someone else to slip up allowing us to stumble blindly over the finish line. It's just not cricket.


You should have a read of this if you haven't seen it already. 


There's quite a bit of truth in it too. 


By contrast, we have Kenny rightly being praised, I see his coaches Andrews (a vocal critic of Trap - after he retired- & MON in his pundit capacity) and Crawford also coming in for deserved praise as progressive coaches. 

We will see the other side of that coin when Kenny loses his first game though, and there will be little let up from the very start. It's taken Klopp 3 years with a hell of a lot of resources, to get Liverpool competitive at the very top, taken Poch much the same time at Spurs- If we want a change, I think Kenny can be the man to deliver that, but it isn't going to happen overnight, regardless of what 11 he picks. 

That's where Early's article is correct, some fans just want to go on the piss at the tournaments, how we get there & what we do when we get there isn't overly relevant to them. 2 conservative managers in Mick & Hughton took 50% of the Ybig poll when MON was sacked, and we have already had posters giving the opinion Kenny will be a disaster. 

I honestly believe we have to change, if nothing else we are about 10 years behind already, but we are going to need a strong FAI to either back Kenny through a possible dodgy results patch, or if they have to replace him, to pick someone who can improve us, not just make us very difficult to beat as I'm sure Chris Hughton for example,  would. 



 


I read Early's piece a few days ago.  I disagree Delaney ''inherited a progressive coach in Brian Kerr''.   Kerr did great with the underage teams but his time as manager wasn't impressive.  He had Given, Duff, Keane, Dunne all playing absolutely brilliantly for their clubs at their peak and had a lot of good pros too such as Roy Keane who still had a bit to offer, Kilbane, Kinsella, Cunningham etc and got very little out of them.
The football was terrible and sterile and ultra conservative. There didn't seem to be much team spirit either.
Kerr had a professional approach but he didn't have the caliber to be an Ireland manager imo.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:22pm
I don’t grasp this at all, but how were we almost guaranteed a play off spot before the euros qualifying kicked off, whenever we finished bottom of our NL group?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kearney304 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:25pm
Talking about Mick here RB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by kearney304 kearney304 wrote:

Talking about Mick here RB

Yes I’m responding to a Moleman comment above 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:28pm
Kerr also had 1 campaign more or less written off by the time he came in (by our Mick), and in the second campaign where he was putting together a good side imo we were very close to qualifying. Iirc Keane was injured by the time we lost to France late in that group which was a big blow. He was trying to get us playing a certain way, and it takes time. Imagine replacing him with Stan for f*ck sake. We could have been in a totally different place by the next campaign.

It's interesting how different managers are viewed. McCarthy had 2 failed campaigns and some abysmal performances (far far worse than anything Kerr served up) and he's revered by many. McCarthy also effectively had a failed 3rd campaign in those '04 qualifiers that few attribute to him for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

I don’t grasp this at all, but how were we almost guaranteed a play off spot before the euros qualifying kicked off, whenever we finished bottom of our NL group?


Once we were in group B of the Nation's league we were 90 plus percent likely to get a playoff spot in March 2020, no? 

We could effectively have lost every Nations League and Euro qualifying game 5-0, and we were still only 2 games away from qualifying for the Euros. 

We knew all of this ages ago, and could easily have planned accordingly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

I don’t grasp this at all, but how were we almost guaranteed a play off spot before the euros qualifying kicked off, whenever we finished bottom of our NL group?


NL rankings were frozen when the NL ended, we were ranked 23rd, so only needed 15 above us to qualify to get a playoff. That's the simple version- we still could have missed out if 4A teams and 4 or more B teams ranked above us didn't qualify automatically, leaving us with no route into the playoff league A, but that was always unlikely given the draw- it won't happen now. 

Most people still think coming 3rd is a factor, had to correct a mate the other night saying that Albania were in with a good chance of a playoff by maybe finishing 3rd in their group - they aren't going anywhere unless they finish 2nd. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:37pm
Just to add we knew all of this around the time the Danes hammered us and the FAI were pondering whether to give MON a contract. We knew all of this in January 2018. That in March 2020, we were almost guaranteed to be just 2 playoff games away from qualifying.

I'll say it again, we will never ever have a chance to rebuild like that with so little to lose. About 20 games, about 15 competitive fixtures, and at the end of it a guaranteed play off. Absolutely blown by the FAI.


Edited by Hans Moleman - 11 Sep 2019 at 10:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:39pm
Ah right


Anyway, Micks done a good job so far. Four wins and two draws and in a good position in the group. You can’t really complain with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Ah right


Anyway, Micks done a good job so far. Four wins and two draws and in a good position in the group. You can’t really complain with that.

I can and I will LOL

I see absolutely nothing that makes me think we will actually beat a side like Denmark or Switzerland. Maybe Mick's plan will work and we'll flukily draw out way to the Euros, but I doubt it. I think we'll need to win a high level game and we've shown nothing to do that under McCarthy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kearney304 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Ah right


Anyway, Micks done a good job so far. Four wins and two draws and in a good position in the group. You can’t really complain with that.

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Bulgaria 

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***Georgia at home - decent 

Good point in Copenhagen TBF

Look we all know the deal, let's judge him after the next 3 games.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenny82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:46pm
We are rebuilding, from the 21's up. Mick is picking the strongest team available to him, and he will cap young lads if he feels they are good enough. In the background, we have 20 lads being coached by future manager in the ways he wants to see our senior team play, and those good enough, will make the step up with Kenny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:46pm
Beat Georgia away and draw with Denmark at home and that could be us qualified 
Everyone will be happy, job done

Georgia away is the biggest game remaining now IMO. A must win
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dots1982 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 6:50am
You can have Pep as your manager. If you have no goalscorers and no goal creators it’s always going to be difficult to play in a progressive way. Pragmatism is ok for now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 7:12am
Originally posted by grannyrule grannyrule wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Trappatoni was absolutely hopeless 

He steadied the ship but then just like Martin O'Neill completely overstayed his welcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Banjaxed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 8:20am
Whatever about the when, how or who when it comes to rebuilds. The way the chips are starting to fall regarding Kenny, talented youth coming to the fore and mick  steadying the ship... something about how this has all panned out feels very right and meant to be. 
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