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Michael O'Neill - An Uncle Tom

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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2021 at 8:01pm
Where did I say he shouldn't be allowed choose?

I find it odd that a nationalist would play for a team that is or was a team for the PUL community.

You only have to look at the amount of Union Jacks at games to see that that it still remains so
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2021 at 8:01pm
Still neglecting to respond to any of the points Daniel Collins made in his blog that I posted a link to I see. Even though it refutes pretty much all of the disingenuous points he's still making.

Then again, what more would you expect from someone portraying Kyle Lafferty as some kind of victim of all the nonsense he attracts.


Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 12 Dec 2021 at 8:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2021 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by Eoink21 Eoink21 wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Rodgers is from a mixed heritage background I think, so probably feels more British than someone from an entirely nationalist background.

He's not.
Carnlough would be a strong Nationalist town and his brother is a known Dissident republican.

But I just don't think Rodgers is bothered with a lot of that stuff now, he's probably spent more time in the UK that he did in NI.


Whatever about his brother, was his mother not from a protestant background and is cousins with Nigel Worthington? 


His brother's path is his own choice. 

Your last line says it all.

People must make their own choice, including without being labelled an "Uncle Tom" etc. And anyone who knows anything about the situation must know that choices are always more nuanced than some on here would allow.

For example, Chris Baird's family was subjected to a terrible sectarian attack by "Loyalists", but they are actually a mixed family. And when he was approached by the FAI before he had been capped by the IFA, he declined.

Brendan Roadgers and Nigel Worthington are related, as noted. Josh Magennis is also the product of a mixed marriage, Kenny Shiels' daughter is married to Oran Keraney, and there other examples if I could be bothered to think of them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2021 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by Eoink21 Eoink21 wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Rodgers is from a mixed heritage background I think, so probably feels more British than someone from an entirely nationalist background.

Yeah, he has shown some diverging views and approaches over the year which are driven by this. He played schoolboy for Ireland didn't he? And his son definitely played underage for Ireland.
Not true.

He played for NI Schoolboys, before injury ended his career while still very young.

As for his son, BR is on the record as saying the only reason he played for the FAI was because the IFA never asked him.

He has also expressed an interest in managing NI, though not until his club management career is over.


Edited by Territorial - 12 Dec 2021 at 8:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2021 at 8:16pm
Was out in Belfast at start of November on a Sunday evening for a few drinks with a group of friends
Some of the NI team were in one of the bars, a few of the lads were talking to McGinn, another member of the squad called one of our group a “fenian ****”
Not sure what sparked it 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2021 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

I wouldn't read anything into Anton Rodgers playing for us. His father was on record as saying he should've went with NI. Anton played for us for two simple reasons: 1) we were/are considered better than NI; 2) he was not good enough to play for England.

From the Irish Independent, 2014:

"While Brendan's son Anton represents the Republic at under-19 level the Liverpool boss told reporters that this just happened because the FAI approached the player.

He strongly hinted that Anton would be available to play at senior level with Northern Ireland should the opportunity arise in the future."

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/brendan-rodgers-voyage-from-hills-of-antrim-to-anfield-30155195.html

As it happens, he wasn't good enough to represent any of the three! LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2021 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Was out in Belfast at start of November on a Sunday evening for a few drinks with a group of friends
Some of the NI team were in one of the bars, a few of the lads were talking to McGinn, another member of the squad called one of our group a “fenian ****”
Not sure what sparked it 

Which one? If you don't know, or don't feel comfortable sharing, that's grand.

Kind of makes Michael O'Neill's recent media comments even more ghastly. Imagine having to stand for GSTQ and being told how to stand for it when you know one of the lads you're linking arms with thinks you're a "Fenian".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2021 at 9:15pm
I do know, not sure i should share. He's not one of the better known players
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2021 at 8:51am
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

If Norn Iron were serious about becoming a non-sectarian outfit, then they would adopt another anthem to be played alongside GSTQ, as the Rugby team have done with Ireland's Call.
FIFA's Rules do not permit 2 anthems. As it is, all anthems are limited to 90 seconds, maximum.

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

The fact is they wont do that, because it remains a cold house for Northern nationalists, that's the truth of it.
No, that's your "truth".  Not everyone thinks like you, including those who know anything about it. You know, people who've actually been to Windsor.


Sorry Terri, I'm not having this.
The results from the BelTel showed that GSTQ is here to stay indefinitely, and the comments section showing it's true colours.


It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2021 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What percentage of the NI fans are catholic/nationalist would you say Terry?

At best 5-10% in my opinion. For most it is indifference and support for the ROI team.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2021 at 10:15am
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

If Norn Iron were serious about becoming a non-sectarian outfit, then they would adopt another anthem to be played alongside GSTQ, as the Rugby team have done with Ireland's Call.
FIFA's Rules do not permit 2 anthems. As it is, all anthems are limited to 90 seconds, maximum.

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

The fact is they wont do that, because it remains a cold house for Northern nationalists, that's the truth of it.
No, that's your "truth".  Not everyone thinks like you, including those who know anything about it. You know, people who've actually been to Windsor.

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

I struggle to see how any Northern nationalist could play for that lot.
Of course you do.

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Neither Scotland or Wales line up to GSTQ, why do Norn Iron insist on doing so?
The IFA could do without the sh*tstorm that "the usual suspects" in the DUP/TUV etc would raise if they announced a change. This is not helped by the fact there is no obvious alternative and made worse by the fact that England insist on retaining the British NA, rather than something uniquely English.


Teri there has been some good work done and I think certainly a lot of younger people are far less inclined to be in any way attracted to the more divisive elements but there is no question that GSTQ and the added no surrender- it happens don't deny it- means that for many Nationalists Windsor Park is still a cold house. The anthem is the last remaining vestige and there is no way it will be given up. Truth be told the best way is to accept Nationalists support the ROI predominantly, Unionists will support NI. Let's just respect that and move on.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badgersboys9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2021 at 11:40am
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What percentage of the NI fans are catholic/nationalist would you say Terry?

At best 5-10% in my opinion. For most it is indifference and support for the ROI team.

Not a chance, I would be very shocked if it was anywhere near 5% nevermind 10%. If you're solely talking about people who would say they're 'nationalist', then you would struggle to find any fans. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2021 at 11:47am
Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What percentage of the NI fans are catholic/nationalist would you say Terry?

At best 5-10% in my opinion. For most it is indifference and support for the ROI team.

Not a chance, I would be very shocked if it was anywhere near 5% nevermind 10%. If you're solely talking about people who would say they're 'nationalist', then you would struggle to find any fans. 

It depends where you look. Places like Hollywood and other 'well to do' type areas would see a few fans. Nationalist or Catholic areas in Derry and Belfast you would barely find any.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badgersboys9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2021 at 11:54am
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What percentage of the NI fans are catholic/nationalist would you say Terry?

At best 5-10% in my opinion. For most it is indifference and support for the ROI team.

Not a chance, I would be very shocked if it was anywhere near 5% nevermind 10%. If you're solely talking about people who would say they're 'nationalist', then you would struggle to find any fans. 

It depends where you look. Places like Hollywood and other 'well to do' type areas would see a few fans. Nationalist or Catholic areas in Derry and Belfast you would barely find any.

Regardless of Derry/Bfast, Nationalist or Catholic areas anywhere in the 6 counties, you would struggle to find any. I have never in my life came across a fella who would consider himself a nationalist and support NI nevermind go to WP to watch them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2021 at 12:11pm
They managed to find a few to interview for that documentary anyway. I'd say there's a few to be found in more affluent areas in the greater Belfast region alright. I'd imagine in places like Derry and Newry and the likes there would be next to none though.

Plenty of people around from mixed backgrounds also, which maybe lessens those people's links to the Ireland team and makes them feel more Northern Irish even if they're catholic - but then those people are perhaps not nationalists as such. 

On the playing side there are probably nationalists making career choices also. Over the years plenty of people in the North on both sides have been willing to compromise their principles somewhat to further their careers both within and outside of sport. Probably that happens with football players also. 

For someone like Conor Bradley he had an offer of senior international caps right away with NI and the increased profile that comes with that whereas it would be the under 21s initially and a wait behind Coleman and Doherty to get picked for Ireland.

Probably, all things being equal, his preference would have been Ireland but, at the end of the day, maybe he just wasn't that bothered about picking an international team and thought sticking with NI was the best thing for his career. 


Edited by You Tell Me - 13 Dec 2021 at 12:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2021 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What percentage of the NI fans are catholic/nationalist would you say Terry?

At best 5-10% in my opinion. For most it is indifference and support for the ROI team.

Not a chance, I would be very shocked if it was anywhere near 5% nevermind 10%. If you're solely talking about people who would say they're 'nationalist', then you would struggle to find any fans. 

It depends where you look. Places like Hollywood and other 'well to do' type areas would see a few fans. Nationalist or Catholic areas in Derry and Belfast you would barely find any.

I live in an area where it has a Protestant majority! I don’t know any catholics who support the North. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2021 at 1:25pm
I do, though not very many and they do not like the GSTQ stuff. I was reading about a young Celtic player, Ben Wylie, yesterday. He is keen to play for NI. He has a ' mixed' background. His father played for Linfield, his mother and her brother ( his uncle ) are fanatical Celtic supporters and he could not wait to sign for them although Rangers and other clubs were interested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gspain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2021 at 2:19pm
I know quite a few from a RC background who support NI.  I don't really know their politics.

Some of it is an age thing.  We had very few fans from north of the border until the past 30 years or so.  It is mainly anecdotal but you wouldn't hear northern accents in the 70's & 80's at Lansdowne.  There were 3 or 4 Cliftonville fans who followed us away in the 80's.  Now we have probably proportionally more home and away fans from north of the border than south of it.     

Some of this is down to northern born players playing for us in the 1990's as that hadn't happened since the 1940's.  

Now our side is seen very much as representing the whole island.  This was definitely not the case until recently.  

There was also widespread support south of the border for NI in the 82 & 86 World Cups.  I know in 93 a lot of the hurt over NI wanting to win so badly rankled with those who cheered them on in the 80's.  I did point out I know loads of England fans who want us to win but........ "Ah but that's different"

  

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