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RogerMilla 
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 Posted: 04 Jul 2011 at 3:50pm |
 yapster wrote:
not condesending son?
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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athlonecelt
Liam Brady
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Posted: 04 Jul 2011 at 5:41pm |
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If only we had The Terminator as a politician , we wouldnt be such a laughing stock.
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athlonecelt
Liam Brady
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Posted: 04 Jul 2011 at 5:44pm |
Ive never been given a yellow card on this site but Ill run the gauntlet now.
Yapster, You come across like a f**king w**ker.
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Trapped
Roy Keane
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Posted: 04 Jul 2011 at 5:53pm |
soccerc wrote:
yapster wrote:
So there is no massive debt Personal & National? No mass un-employment, thousands haven't emigrated, no one have lost homes & buisness's, The IMF have no say in Irish Finances, NAMA isn'st a rip-off?
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 I writ it big this time so you can read it nice and slowly
soccerc wrote:
yapster wrote:
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St Tom is right, you talk crap and I normally would not attack the poster but the post but on this occasion doing both
So there is no mass un-employment - Correct, there is no mass unemployment
no mass emigration - Very good, again you've got that right
no people losing their houses - Wrong,
some people are but in the main they were sub prime borrowers just
like the many many of their ilk in the good ol US of A.
no mass personal debt - Exactly, while many would have personal debt it's not mass and certainly nothing of concern.
no National debt - Of course there is national debt, again, just like the US of A and 90% of open economies. Just because some report budget surplus doesn't mean there is no inherent debt
no IMF - Actually, no, The IMF are not directly involved despite the hysterics.
no NAMA - You know the name but obviously not it's purpose.
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Quality
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67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
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Citizen
Roy Keane
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Posted: 04 Jul 2011 at 6:20pm |
Saint Tom wrote:
Citizen wrote:
Lads can you stop giving Yapster personal abuse; he is entitled to his opinion. Some of ye are turning it into an argument of the US v Ireland, which is irrelevant it’s like arguing the merits of which is worse, famine or war?!. Tbh I don’t think a lot of what he is saying is completely inaccurate, and I think the fact that the guy hails from the USA is distorting your judgment of the situation.
The country is completely in the mire and it is down to our governments’ incompetence, greed and collaboration with their friends in the banking and construction industries,
they facilitated the banks reckless lending policies with an almost unregulated banking industry, they gave tax incentives to builders to build and build and build, and the government gave tax incentives for people to buy and buy, not just one home, but when you have teachers (apparently always crying poverty) buying two investment properties so they can make a few quid and become part-time property speculators and a balance sheet millionaire there is something fundamentally wrong. When more houses were built in Ireland in 2007 than were built in England, a country 15 times our population, id does not take a genius to know that the system was corrupt to the core.
The people are also culpable, in so far as they elected a party and leader to power in 2007 by a landslide victory. A leader who incidentally only 3 months earlier was revealed to have taken illicit payments when he was minister for finance…the health system was just as bad during our years of prosperity, we had record budget surpluses but people were still dying on hospital trolleys in hallways…so I have to laugh when people in 2007 chose to ignore that they were far too busy enjoying the lifestyle of the nouveau rich.
Not only were governments Celtic Tiger policies self-serving, their efforts to safe a sinking ship were also self-serving. NAMA basically embodies this point, not to mention the takeover of Anglo, and the failure to prosecute a single person for fraud which has crippled this nation and forced many to take their own lives. Not one prosecution, even the poster boys of fingers Fingleton and seanie Fitz. Even though Seanie Fitz has broken scores or laws, including giving himself a directors loan for 90million….
You get the government you deserve imo. And your failure as a people to do anything about 1) NAMA, 2), Bank Guarantee, 3). IMF, shows what a spineless docile nation we have become.
The country has only veered to the left when the middle classes got a bout of negative equity and when their mini property empire has levelled like a house of cards. It says it all about our nation tbh. |
all well and good citz, but i think its time to start dealing with the hand we've got now. unfortunately these things are done. we can sit round moping about it, but ultimately we are paying for past mistakes we have two options (a) pull out of the eu, devalue our currency and burn everyone else - postives: reversal of short term cuts. negatives: europe will slap tariffs on all irish goods and thus crippling our ability to trade (b) in the mid term, restructure our economy fundamentally in all areas (spending, broaden the tax base etc), play ball with europe and negotiate from within as best we can. ultimately, ireland will not repay all the debt anyway with some europe wide solution being found by 2013 after elections in france and germany positives: we dont alienate ourselves negatives: higher taxes in teh short term i personally think that the course of action being ptaken by the coalition is the right one. in the long run we need to change the whole culture of the irish economy and in time it will pay dividends, it wont be without short term pain though. i have already stated that as things stand, the vast majority do not have a poor standard if living by european standards |
the coalition?? they have mostly followed Fianna fails plans for the bailout..They have failed to renegotiate the terms 'successfully as of yet'', ... also our only real option is to play ball with europe (without touching our corporation tax rate)...the imf will come in and slash our savage levels of current expenditure, including a huge cull in the public sector, and a significant decrease in rate of social welfare, the croke park agreement will also be ripped up. ..your standard of living thing is also a nonsense, i know two people who volunteer as assessors for vincent de paul, and you would be shocked at the sort of people who are now getting basic assistance to buy food and pay for heating. Mass repossessions have not even started yet, isn't the moratorium up soon, then you will see your tangible evidence of poverty, as there are 40,000 households in arrears. The worst has yet to come imo.. ps..i was a bit hasty sticking up for yapster
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My Views are my own and do not in any way represent this site.
'The FAI are the dysfunctional body that other dysfunctional bodies call Galacticos' - Declan Lynch (Sunday Indo)
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Citizen
Roy Keane
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Posted: 04 Jul 2011 at 6:33pm |
Stoked Up wrote:
Citizen wrote:
by that logic Fianna Gael stumbled over the line in this years election as they go 1 seat fewer than Fianna fail got in 2007..... you must have a different memory of the time S.O, there was never any doubt that Fianna Fail would be in government after the results of the 2007 election...it was hailed as triumph by Bertie....you can be pedantic with definitions all you like, but to say they stumbled in 2007 after a loss of 4 seats is ridiculous |
Now you're just been ridiculous. FG gained 27 seats on their previous total - if you like; that's a landslide improvement.
I've a dislike of people being pedantic on internet forums and I usually refrain because it ends up somewhat circular, but you used that outrageous logic to bolster your point that most of the people of this country were somehow duped by FF and gave them a landslide victory. Yes, some were, but nearly two thirds of the voters were not. I'm no champion of FF, but my memory is not selective at all. Of course they were always going to do deals with some party or independents to form a government (because that's being their way, ever since they lost the ability to get overall majorities), but by any objective reasoning, that government was cobbled together. |
your still going....forget the phrase landslide for one second.....there hasnt been an overall majority since 77, and there will never be one again, given the dynamics of modern politics, so getting 7 short of it is remarkable in short, the 2007 elections was regarded as a success for Fianna Fail and a huge failure for Fine GaEl...kenny was lucky to survive it, this is fact, end of.
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My Views are my own and do not in any way represent this site.
'The FAI are the dysfunctional body that other dysfunctional bodies call Galacticos' - Declan Lynch (Sunday Indo)
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RogerMilla
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Posted: 04 Jul 2011 at 6:40pm |
athlonecelt wrote:
Ive never been given a yellow card on this site but Ill run the gauntlet now.
Yapster, You come across like a f**king w**ker.
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*looks other way*
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Citizen
Roy Keane
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Posted: 04 Jul 2011 at 6:42pm |
Ireland4ever wrote:
Citizen wrote:
Lads can you stop giving Yapster personal abuse; he is entitled to his opinion..... |
Me hole, his condescending tone in nearly every one of his posts earn him the abuse that comes his way. He's a WUM, i dont know why you would choose to stick up for him. |
after reading he John O'Shea thread i have to agree with you  ban him
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My Views are my own and do not in any way represent this site.
'The FAI are the dysfunctional body that other dysfunctional bodies call Galacticos' - Declan Lynch (Sunday Indo)
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RogerMilla
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Posted: 04 Jul 2011 at 6:44pm |
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Moratorium will have to be extended, sure the banks would rather have distressed loans than properties of little resale value, they won't even give a mortgage out to those who want to buy them , there is also the option that happened in the 80's leave them in the house, transfer ownership to the bank and charge rent.. Some stunt will have to be pulled to avoid evictions, or the revolution will be live on RTE
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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greenforever
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 04 Jul 2011 at 7:13pm |
Stoked Up wrote:
Saint Tom wrote:
i have already stated that as things stand, the vast majority do not have a poor standard if living by european standards |
Indeed. If we were to believe some of the comments, you think that we've suddenly become a third world country.
Yes, we have lost some of the gains made during the past couple of decades, but our overall standard of living has been massively raised since the dark days of the 80's.
During the 80's, I had to endure unemployment twice. It was a massive struggle to do anything. Taxation was horrendous. People on part-time jobs were earning a pittance and still lost a quarter of their wages in taxes. The standard VAT rate was 35%. Of my wife's leaving Cert class of '81, there was just 2 left in the country by 1986. Four of my siblings emigrated.
When I hear people moan and groan that things are much worse now, I wish they had been around to have seen just how bad things really were 30 years ago.
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In 1981 I had a full time job and a part time job 16 hrs a week, and was lucky to be able to afford a weeks foriegn holiday by bus, and that was living at home ......bad and all as things are at the moment its nowhere near as bad as the 1980s
Negative equity is a major problem but this also happened in the early to mid 90s when interest rates went up 5% in a matter of a couple of months IIRC.
As Tom previously posted, if we get people back working most people will be able to sort out their problems, and in extreme cases banks will have to write off certain sums rather than repossess unsaleable properties.
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I know nothing :-)
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Citizen
Roy Keane
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Posted: 05 Jul 2011 at 3:01am |
greenforever wrote:
Stoked Up wrote:
Saint Tom wrote:
i have already stated that as things stand, the vast majority do not have a poor standard if living by european standards |
Indeed. If we were to believe some of the comments, you think that we've suddenly become a third world country.
Yes, we have lost some of the gains made during the past couple of decades, but our overall standard of living has been massively raised since the dark days of the 80's.
During the 80's, I had to endure unemployment twice. It was a massive struggle to do anything. Taxation was horrendous. People on part-time jobs were earning a pittance and still lost a quarter of their wages in taxes. The standard VAT rate was 35%. Of my wife's leaving Cert class of '81, there was just 2 left in the country by 1986. Four of my siblings emigrated.
When I hear people moan and groan that things are much worse now, I wish they had been around to have seen just how bad things really were 30 years ago.
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In 1981 I had a full time job and a part time job 16 hrs a week, and was lucky to be able to afford a weeks foriegn holiday by bus, and that was living at home ......bad and all as things are at the moment its nowhere near as bad as the 1980s
Negative equity is a major problem but this also happened in the early to mid 90s when interest rates went up 5% in a matter of a couple of months IIRC.
As Tom previously posted, if we get people back working most people will be able to sort out their problems, and in extreme cases banks will have to write off certain sums rather than repossess unsaleable properties. |
well the difference between now and the the 80s is people in the 80s didnt have crippling levels of debt to deal with, anyone who had a house or mortgage also had an asset that was appreciating, where as now their property is like a noose around their neck . It is also not just the umemployed that are in arrears with their mortgages
Edited by Citizen - 05 Jul 2011 at 3:04am
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My Views are my own and do not in any way represent this site.
'The FAI are the dysfunctional body that other dysfunctional bodies call Galacticos' - Declan Lynch (Sunday Indo)
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RogerMilla
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Posted: 05 Jul 2011 at 3:34am |
Citizen wrote:
greenforever wrote:
Stoked Up wrote:
Saint Tom wrote:
i have already stated that as things stand, the vast majority do not have a poor standard if living by european standards |
Indeed. If we were to believe some of the comments, you think that we've suddenly become a third world country.
Yes, we have lost some of the gains made during the past couple of decades, but our overall standard of living has been massively raised since the dark days of the 80's.
During the 80's, I had to endure unemployment twice. It was a massive struggle to do anything. Taxation was horrendous. People on part-time jobs were earning a pittance and still lost a quarter of their wages in taxes. The standard VAT rate was 35%. Of my wife's leaving Cert class of '81, there was just 2 left in the country by 1986. Four of my siblings emigrated.
When I hear people moan and groan that things are much worse now, I wish they had been around to have seen just how bad things really were 30 years ago.
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In 1981 I had a full time job and a part time job 16 hrs a week, and was lucky to be able to afford a weeks foriegn holiday by bus, and that was living at home ......bad and all as things are at the moment its nowhere near as bad as the 1980s
Negative equity is a major problem but this also happened in the early to mid 90s when interest rates went up 5% in a matter of a couple of months IIRC.
As Tom previously posted, if we get people back working most people will be able to sort out their problems, and in extreme cases banks will have to write off certain sums rather than repossess unsaleable properties. |
well the difference between now and the the 80s is people in the 80s didnt have crippling levels of debt to deal with, anyone who had a house or mortgage also had an asset that was appreciating, where as now their property is like a noose around their neck . It is also not just the umemployed that are in arrears with their mortgages |
citizen there was big debt in the 80's too banks like BOI and AIB wrote off huge amounts of credit card debt to private citizens , accepting settlements of less than 10 pence in the pound in many cases
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Stoked Up
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 05 Jul 2011 at 4:48am |
Citizen wrote:
well the difference between now and the the 80s is people in the 80s didnt have crippling levels of debt to deal with, anyone who had a house or mortgage also had an asset that was appreciating, where as now their property is like a noose around their neck . It is also not just the umemployed that are in arrears with their mortgages |
I thought I had it made, saving up the 10% deposit to buy my first house at just 23 years old.
By the time we sold our first house in the late 80's it had lost 30% of its value. It was a miracle we even sold it as the house next door had been repossessed by the bank and was going for even less. I was fortunate to have picked up a really good job and was gigging part time which somehow enabled me to pay down some of the incurred debt and find the money for a 10% deposit on another house. All in all, it probably took us 10 years to get back on our feet. We had no holidays for about 6 or 7 years other than borrowed caravans in Wexford. No Euro '88, No WC 1990 or 1994 trips either. As for the property next door? The bank took a 55% hit.
However, I do agree with you that some people have much greater debts now, but not all.
The vast majority of householders have little or no mortgages and many of the ones in negative equity are probably not that far under water that they'll be capable of getting out of it, sometime in the future, just as I and others did in the period '85-'95. As for the ones in dire straits? The banks will have to take a hit and write down this debt over longer periods, much the same as what they did back then and what the country in general will ultimately do.
As for me? We got a great bargain on our second house (just as many now are) and by the middle of the following decade we were mortgage free. It turned around then and if past history is anything to go by, it will turn around again sometime in the future too.
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Saint Tom
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 05 Jul 2011 at 3:16pm |
Citizen wrote:
Saint Tom wrote:
Citizen wrote:
Lads can you stop giving Yapster personal abuse; he is entitled to his opinion. Some of ye are turning it into an argument of the US v Ireland, which is irrelevant it’s like arguing the merits of which is worse, famine or war?!. Tbh I don’t think a lot of what he is saying is completely inaccurate, and I think the fact that the guy hails from the USA is distorting your judgment of the situation.
The country is completely in the mire and it is down to our governments’ incompetence, greed and collaboration with their friends in the banking and construction industries,
they facilitated the banks reckless lending policies with an almost unregulated banking industry, they gave tax incentives to builders to build and build and build, and the government gave tax incentives for people to buy and buy, not just one home, but when you have teachers (apparently always crying poverty) buying two investment properties so they can make a few quid and become part-time property speculators and a balance sheet millionaire there is something fundamentally wrong. When more houses were built in Ireland in 2007 than were built in England, a country 15 times our population, id does not take a genius to know that the system was corrupt to the core.
The people are also culpable, in so far as they elected a party and leader to power in 2007 by a landslide victory. A leader who incidentally only 3 months earlier was revealed to have taken illicit payments when he was minister for finance…the health system was just as bad during our years of prosperity, we had record budget surpluses but people were still dying on hospital trolleys in hallways…so I have to laugh when people in 2007 chose to ignore that they were far too busy enjoying the lifestyle of the nouveau rich.
Not only were governments Celtic Tiger policies self-serving, their efforts to safe a sinking ship were also self-serving. NAMA basically embodies this point, not to mention the takeover of Anglo, and the failure to prosecute a single person for fraud which has crippled this nation and forced many to take their own lives. Not one prosecution, even the poster boys of fingers Fingleton and seanie Fitz. Even though Seanie Fitz has broken scores or laws, including giving himself a directors loan for 90million….
You get the government you deserve imo. And your failure as a people to do anything about 1) NAMA, 2), Bank Guarantee, 3). IMF, shows what a spineless docile nation we have become.
The country has only veered to the left when the middle classes got a bout of negative equity and when their mini property empire has levelled like a house of cards. It says it all about our nation tbh. |
all well and good citz, but i think its time to start dealing with the hand we've got now. unfortunately these things are done. we can sit round moping about it, but ultimately we are paying for past mistakes we have two options (a) pull out of the eu, devalue our currency and burn everyone else - postives: reversal of short term cuts. negatives: europe will slap tariffs on all irish goods and thus crippling our ability to trade (b) in the mid term, restructure our economy fundamentally in all areas (spending, broaden the tax base etc), play ball with europe and negotiate from within as best we can. ultimately, ireland will not repay all the debt anyway with some europe wide solution being found by 2013 after elections in france and germany positives: we dont alienate ourselves negatives: higher taxes in teh short term i personally think that the course of action being ptaken by the coalition is the right one. in the long run we need to change the whole culture of the irish economy and in time it will pay dividends, it wont be without short term pain though. i have already stated that as things stand, the vast majority do not have a poor standard if living by european standards |
the coalition?? they have mostly followed Fianna fails plans for the bailout..They have failed to renegotiate the terms 'successfully as of yet'', ...
also our only real option is to play ball with europe (without touching our corporation tax rate)...the imf will come in and slash our savage levels of current expenditure, including a huge cull in the public sector, and a significant decrease in rate of social welfare, the croke park agreement will also be ripped up.
..your standard of living thing is also a nonsense, i know two people who volunteer as assessors for vincent de paul, and you would be shocked at the sort of people who are now getting basic assistance to buy food and pay for heating.
Mass repossessions have not even started yet, isn't the moratorium up soon, then you will see your tangible evidence of poverty, as there are 40,000 households in arrears.
The worst has yet to come imo..
ps..i was a bit hasty sticking up for yapster
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(i) working from within as i said (ii) this will not happen. the MARP imposed on the commercial banks makes it all but impossible to repossess provided that the client is transparent about their means and is giving an adequate portion of their net income (agreed with the regulator)
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My destination inchicore my next stop being kilmainham
Where patriots and super saints are the topics of conversation
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Saint Tom
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 05 Jul 2011 at 3:20pm |
also why is there such a general misunderstanding behind the idea of nama? as for the VdeP Citz, again its anecdotal - what constitutes the "sort of people".
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My destination inchicore my next stop being kilmainham
Where patriots and super saints are the topics of conversation
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seanyshuffler
Jack Charlton
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