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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2022 at 6:03pm
My opinion is that MoN is diluting facts within the timeline to suit his narrative when it comes to Rice.

He is basically saying Rice didn't want to play for us competitively and hinting that this is what he and his father said to him, which I'm sure they did but that was only later in 2018 after he had Southgate in his ear.

Then MoN appeared to allude to "do you not think the players know the rules", then why was he calling him up to competitive squads and the friendlies in the first place if he knew he wouldn't play in competitive games.

My opinion is that Rice was all in at the very beginning but then as his profile grew quickly and he got people in his ear he quickly changed over. Which he was entitled to do. But don't tell me that if Rice had of been named in the squad for Moldova and then was asked to go on the bench that he would have refused to go on the pitch for minutes. 
It was a fairly small window of time but I think if MoN had of thrown him into the team then we wlhldd have tied him down. 
Also if we had of qualified for the world cup most likely for sure. 

Then O'Neill started saying "do you not think he is happy with his decision, the commercial profile enhancement, etc." Yes but that's not the point Martin, no one is disputing it has worked out well for him in that regard. But o'neill had the chance and he didn't take it and he can dance around it all he likes. He even mentioned it years ago "I was in the business of winning games and I'm not going to cap people to tie them down, then I'd be capping 15 year olds"......and here lies the real reason. He didn't think he was what he needed at that time. Which is also fair enough but at least be honest about it now in 2022. He is not being honest as it shows he overlooked a top prospect and went with people like Meylor instead and we lost out on Rice and it looks bad on him that he let one get awsy.

In addition, maybe for certain players it might make sense to make an exception and put a dual player in to tie them down. It's not the most moral thing to do but as international manager you should be trying to ensure the best squad ia available to the international team short and long trlerm.


Edited by t_rAndy - 08 Dec 2022 at 6:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scissors Kick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2022 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

My opinion is that MoN is diluting facts within the timeline to suit his narrative when it comes to Rice.

He is basically saying Rice didn't want to play for us competitively and hinting that this is what he and his father said to him, which I'm sure they did but that was only later in 2018 after he had Southgate in his ear.

Then MoN appeared to allude to "do you not think the players know the rules", then why was he calling him up to competitive squads and the friendlies in the first place if he knew he wouldn't play in competitive games.

My opinion is that Rice was all in at the very beginning but then as his profile grew quickly and he got people in his ear he quickly changed over. Which he was entitled to do. But don't tell me that if Rice had of been named in the squad for Moldova and then was asked to go on the bench that he would have refused to go on the pitch for minutes. 
It was a fairly small window of time but I think if MoN had of thrown him into the team then we wlhldd have tied him down. 
Also if we had of qualified for the world cup most likely for sure. 

Then O'Neill started saying "do you not think he is happy with his decision, the commercial profile enhancement, etc." Yes but that's not the point Martin, no one is disputing it has worked out well for him in that regard. But o'neill had the chance and he didn't take it and he can dance around it all he likes. He even mentioned it years ago "I was in the business of winning games and I'm not going to cap people to tie them down, then I'd be capping 15 year olds"......and here lies the real reason. He didn't think he was what he needed at that time. Which is also fair enough but at least be honest about it. In addition, maybe for certain players it might make sense to make an exception and put a dual player in to tie them down. It's not the most moral thing to do but as international manager you should be trying to ensure the best squad ia available to the international team short and long trlerm.

Yeah, and he's pretty safe too from Rice coming out and saying he would have played for Ireland happily had MON put him in, because he was last seen belting out GSTQ on close up the other day. So its tactically sound from MON, the cute hoor 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2022 at 6:22pm
Originally posted by Scissors Kick Scissors Kick wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

My opinion is that MoN is diluting facts within the timeline to suit his narrative when it comes to Rice.

He is basically saying Rice didn't want to play for us competitively and hinting that this is what he and his father said to him, which I'm sure they did but that was only later in 2018 after he had Southgate in his ear.

Then MoN appeared to allude to "do you not think the players know the rules", then why was he calling him up to competitive squads and the friendlies in the first place if he knew he wouldn't play in competitive games.

My opinion is that Rice was all in at the very beginning but then as his profile grew quickly and he got people in his ear he quickly changed over. Which he was entitled to do. But don't tell me that if Rice had of been named in the squad for Moldova and then was asked to go on the bench that he would have refused to go on the pitch for minutes. 
It was a fairly small window of time but I think if MoN had of thrown him into the team then we wlhldd have tied him down. 
Also if we had of qualified for the world cup most likely for sure. 

Then O'Neill started saying "do you not think he is happy with his decision, the commercial profile enhancement, etc." Yes but that's not the point Martin, no one is disputing it has worked out well for him in that regard. But o'neill had the chance and he didn't take it and he can dance around it all he likes. He even mentioned it years ago "I was in the business of winning games and I'm not going to cap people to tie them down, then I'd be capping 15 year olds"......and here lies the real reason. He didn't think he was what he needed at that time. Which is also fair enough but at least be honest about it. In addition, maybe for certain players it might make sense to make an exception and put a dual player in to tie them down. It's not the most moral thing to do but as international manager you should be trying to ensure the best squad ia available to the international team short and long trlerm.

Yeah, and he's pretty safe too from Rice coming out and saying he would have played for Ireland happily had MON put him in, because he was last seen belting out GSTQ on close up the other day. So its tactically sound from MON, the cute hoor 

He also sang Amhrán na bhFiann When hé played for us ifirc. 

Matt Holland famously sang gtsq during an FA cup match too. 

Also it's now Gstk Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheNumber6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 12:55am
Martin said only a few days ago publicly that Declan’s father was consistently to the end in favour of playing for Ireland. Think Mr Grealish was a bit different in that regard, now swanning around Qatar in a Union Jack waistcoat. Mind you, in 2016, said Mr Grealish was wearing an Ireland shirt. Dual nationality eh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 3:05am
Grealish would never have played for us regardless of what MON did. 

Rice would have played for us if we capped him v Moldova. Which a smarter manager would have done. Would have had him on the bench and brought him on.

A perfect storm of events led to us losing a player who was kissing the Irish badge at one point. 

We were playing atrocious football, there was a toxic atmosphere around the team, we know that there were fallings out behind the scenes with players and management - and while all this was going on, Southgate was creating a level of togetherness with England, got them to a WC semi, got the fans back behind them, and the future was all of a sudden bright for the English national team for the first time in a decade.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalymount79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 7:21am
Majority of Managers only care about themselves and care deck all about what the next manager has to deal with. That’s fine in club football when you have owners / dofs who assess wider impacts of the incumbent and can recruit according to current and future needs / succession plans.
MON is a prime example of this as evidenced with Rice and state he left Villa in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eoink21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 7:41am
Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

Martin said only a few days ago publicly that Declan’s father was consistently to the end in favour of playing for Ireland. Think Mr Grealish was a bit different in that regard, now swanning around Qatar in a Union Jack waistcoat. Mind you, in 2016, said Mr Grealish was wearing an Ireland shirt. Dual nationality eh?

Whatever insight this is (and plenty have similar), I know a 2g Irishman from Birmingham and a 2g Irishman from London and each knows the Grealish and Rice families respectively. I was told Declan's father and uncles were clear they were on the Irish side and I believe MON said something similar. Apparently there was a little bit of iciness amongst them after he pied us off. I was told that no such thing occurred with Grealish and his thread is full of stories about the father. Amazing to think that man has two Irish parents and was brought up in a community which is known to be distinctly Irish. Even had his son playing GAA. Think it says more about him overall than his sense of identity the way he is carrying on with the waistcoat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 9:17am
I think only a minority of English born players of Irish heritage have a stronger Irish identity than an English one. Kilbane is one I think. In any sport you want to reach the highest levels, and if it is a toss-up between representing England or Ireland, most will understandably chose England. We are an insurance policy and shop window.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 9:55am
I don’t have any issue with 2 or 3 generation Irish wanting to play for the country they are born in. In fact it’s kind of natural.
We are seeing it more here now with many 2nd generation players from Eastern European/African backgrounds but are in the set up and no intention of going elsewhere. They are born here, their friends are from here, they pick up the culture and the love for the Irish team maybe going to matches with dad and/ or friends and the ones that are really good at football will play with other good Irish footballers at underage and the end goal will be to make it to the senior Irish team and I think it will be only a minority of players we would miss out in because they choose to play for the country of their parent’s birth instead of sticking around with ireland. 

But when we do get 2nd generations into the team and especially if they are very promising like in Premier League level academies, I think we should have an eye on fast tracking them. It feels dirty to say it and maybe sensing that perhaps, deep down, we were a second choice for a player, however, if circumstances mean they were tied to us, we could use them and they are making the team better then sorry, that is what is most important for me, as long as they are giving their all and not making it obvious that they would rather be somewhere else.
I think that would have been the case with Rice I think he would have really embraced it and potentially already the captain.


Edited by t_rAndy - 09 Dec 2022 at 10:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 11:11am
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

I don’t have any issue with 2 or 3 generation Irish wanting to play for the country they are born in. In fact it’s kind of natural.
We are seeing it more here now with many 2nd generation players from Eastern European/African backgrounds but are in the set up and no intention of going elsewhere. They are born here, their friends are from here, they pick up the culture and the love for the Irish team maybe going to matches with dad and/ or friends and the ones that are really good at football will play with other good Irish footballers at underage and the end goal will be to make it to the senior Irish team and I think it will be only a minority of players we would miss out in because they choose to play for the country of their parent’s birth instead of sticking around with ireland. 

But when we do get 2nd generations into the team and especially if they are very promising like in Premier League level academies, I think we should have an eye on fast tracking them. It feels dirty to say it and maybe sensing that perhaps, deep down, we were a second choice for a player, however, if circumstances mean they were tied to us, we could use them and they are making the team better then sorry, that is what is most important for me, as long as they are giving their all and not making it obvious that they would rather be somewhere else.
I think that would have been the case with Rice I think he would have really embraced it and potentially already the captain.

I wouldn't be too sure on that when it comes to players that may have Polish or parents from other eastern European countries. 

I was chatting with a Nigerian fella around a year ago who said his son played with Shamrock Rovers U17s. As an aside he had nothing but praise for Rovers and how well they treated the players and families. I asked him would the majority of many Irish born players with Nigerian parents/heritage be more likely to play for Nigeria than Ireland and he was fairly certain pretty much all would play for Ireland which was comforting to hear. 

I don't think that may necessarily be the case with the Polish/Lithuanians/ Latvians etc as these countries are a lot closer to Ireland, their parents would speak to their children in their own country's language, regularly travel over and back on holidays etc so any potential Irish born star players with Polish parents may understandably feel Polish and be more likely to commit to Poland. 

Hope I'm wrong on that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 11:36am
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

I don’t have any issue with 2 or 3 generation Irish wanting to play for the country they are born in. In fact it’s kind of natural.
We are seeing it more here now with many 2nd generation players from Eastern European/African backgrounds but are in the set up and no intention of going elsewhere. They are born here, their friends are from here, they pick up the culture and the love for the Irish team maybe going to matches with dad and/ or friends and the ones that are really good at football will play with other good Irish footballers at underage and the end goal will be to make it to the senior Irish team and I think it will be only a minority of players we would miss out in because they choose to play for the country of their parent’s birth instead of sticking around with ireland. 

But when we do get 2nd generations into the team and especially if they are very promising like in Premier League level academies, I think we should have an eye on fast tracking them. It feels dirty to say it and maybe sensing that perhaps, deep down, we were a second choice for a player, however, if circumstances mean they were tied to us, we could use them and they are making the team better then sorry, that is what is most important for me, as long as they are giving their all and not making it obvious that they would rather be somewhere else.
I think that would have been the case with Rice I think he would have really embraced it and potentially already the captain.

I wouldn't be too sure on that when it comes to players that may have Polish or parents from other eastern European countries. 

I was chatting with a Nigerian fella around a year ago who said his son played with Shamrock Rovers U17s. As an aside he had nothing but praise for Rovers and how well they treated the players and families. I asked him would the majority of many Irish born players with Nigerian parents/heritage be more likely to play for Nigeria than Ireland and he was fairly certain pretty much all would play for Ireland which was comforting to hear. 

I don't think that may necessarily be the case with the Polish/Lithuanians/ Latvians etc as these countries are a lot closer to Ireland, their parents would speak to their children in their own country's language, regularly travel over and back on holidays etc so any potential Irish born star players with Polish parents may understandably feel Polish and be more likely to commit to Poland. 

Hope I'm wrong on that. 
Seems a reasonable assessment  - we haven't really had the quandary of lads with eastern and central european parentage. I would see the example of Matty Cash who plays for Poland through his mother despite being born in England. I would imagine his agent put out feelers to Southgate to see if Cash had a chance of making the England squad and made his decision to play for Poland on that basis. I'd say the polish lads who were replaced in the WC team and squad won't have much time for Cash. From an Irish perspective in a similar situation would the player play for Ireland only after Poland said no. On the subject of some English born lads who played for Ireland, say the likes of Holland and Townsend, to my mind they represented Ireland with total commitment, dedication and pride but if I'm honest I regard them as English. That might piss some people off but I'm being true to what I believe.

Edited by Cabra Hoop - 09 Dec 2022 at 11:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheNumber6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 11:39am
Originally posted by Eoink21 Eoink21 wrote:

Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

Martin said only a few days ago publicly that Declan’s father was consistently to the end in favour of playing for Ireland. Think Mr Grealish was a bit different in that regard, now swanning around Qatar in a Union Jack waistcoat. Mind you, in 2016, said Mr Grealish was wearing an Ireland shirt. Dual nationality eh?

Whatever insight this is (and plenty have similar), I know a 2g Irishman from Birmingham and a 2g Irishman from London and each knows the Grealish and Rice families respectively. I was told Declan's father and uncles were clear they were on the Irish side and I believe MON said something similar. Apparently there was a little bit of iciness amongst them after he pied us off. I was told that no such thing occurred with Grealish and his thread is full of stories about the father. Amazing to think that man has two Irish parents and was brought up in a community which is known to be distinctly Irish. Even had his son playing GAA. Think it says more about him overall than his sense of identity the way he is carrying on with the waistcoat.

Yeah, agreed. Easy to see where Jack the Lad persona comes from.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 12:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

I don’t have any issue with 2 or 3 generation Irish wanting to play for the country they are born in. In fact it’s kind of natural.
We are seeing it more here now with many 2nd generation players from Eastern European/African backgrounds but are in the set up and no intention of going elsewhere. They are born here, their friends are from here, they pick up the culture and the love for the Irish team maybe going to matches with dad and/ or friends and the ones that are really good at football will play with other good Irish footballers at underage and the end goal will be to make it to the senior Irish team and I think it will be only a minority of players we would miss out in because they choose to play for the country of their parent’s birth instead of sticking around with ireland. 

But when we do get 2nd generations into the team and especially if they are very promising like in Premier League level academies, I think we should have an eye on fast tracking them. It feels dirty to say it and maybe sensing that perhaps, deep down, we were a second choice for a player, however, if circumstances mean they were tied to us, we could use them and they are making the team better then sorry, that is what is most important for me, as long as they are giving their all and not making it obvious that they would rather be somewhere else.
I think that would have been the case with Rice I think he would have really embraced it and potentially already the captain.

I wouldn't be too sure on that when it comes to players that may have Polish or parents from other eastern European countries. 

I was chatting with a Nigerian fella around a year ago who said his son played with Shamrock Rovers U17s. As an aside he had nothing but praise for Rovers and how well they treated the players and families. I asked him would the majority of many Irish born players with Nigerian parents/heritage be more likely to play for Nigeria than Ireland and he was fairly certain pretty much all would play for Ireland which was comforting to hear. 

I don't think that may necessarily be the case with the Polish/Lithuanians/ Latvians etc as these countries are a lot closer to Ireland, their parents would speak to their children in their own country's language, regularly travel over and back on holidays etc so any potential Irish born star players with Polish parents may understandably feel Polish and be more likely to commit to Poland. 

Hope I'm wrong on that. 
Seems a reasonable assessment  - we haven't really had the quandary of lads with eastern and central european parentage. I would see the example of Matty Cash who plays for Poland through his mother despite being born in England. I would imagine his agent put out feelers to Southgate to see if Cash had a chance of making the England squad and made his decision to play for Poland on that basis. I'd say the polish lads who were replaced in the WC team and squad won't have much time for Cash. From an Irish perspective in a similar situation would the player play for Ireland only after Poland said no. On the subject of some English born lads who played for Ireland, say the likes of Holland and Townsend, to my mind they represented Ireland with total commitment, dedication and pride but if I'm honest I regard them as English. That might piss some people off but I'm being true to what I believe.

Per Cash himself, he tried to get involved with Poland years previously while at Forest, but the Polish FA stonewalled him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

I don’t have any issue with 2 or 3 generation Irish wanting to play for the country they are born in. In fact it’s kind of natural.
We are seeing it more here now with many 2nd generation players from Eastern European/African backgrounds but are in the set up and no intention of going elsewhere. They are born here, their friends are from here, they pick up the culture and the love for the Irish team maybe going to matches with dad and/ or friends and the ones that are really good at football will play with other good Irish footballers at underage and the end goal will be to make it to the senior Irish team and I think it will be only a minority of players we would miss out in because they choose to play for the country of their parent’s birth instead of sticking around with ireland. 

But when we do get 2nd generations into the team and especially if they are very promising like in Premier League level academies, I think we should have an eye on fast tracking them. It feels dirty to say it and maybe sensing that perhaps, deep down, we were a second choice for a player, however, if circumstances mean they were tied to us, we could use them and they are making the team better then sorry, that is what is most important for me, as long as they are giving their all and not making it obvious that they would rather be somewhere else.
I think that would have been the case with Rice I think he would have really embraced it and potentially already the captain.

I wouldn't be too sure on that when it comes to players that may have Polish or parents from other eastern European countries. 

I was chatting with a Nigerian fella around a year ago who said his son played with Shamrock Rovers U17s. As an aside he had nothing but praise for Rovers and how well they treated the players and families. I asked him would the majority of many Irish born players with Nigerian parents/heritage be more likely to play for Nigeria than Ireland and he was fairly certain pretty much all would play for Ireland which was comforting to hear. 

I don't think that may necessarily be the case with the Polish/Lithuanians/ Latvians etc as these countries are a lot closer to Ireland, their parents would speak to their children in their own country's language, regularly travel over and back on holidays etc so any potential Irish born star players with Polish parents may understandably feel Polish and be more likely to commit to Poland. 

Hope I'm wrong on that. 
Seems a reasonable assessment  - we haven't really had the quandary of lads with eastern and central european parentage. I would see the example of Matty Cash who plays for Poland through his mother despite being born in England. I would imagine his agent put out feelers to Southgate to see if Cash had a chance of making the England squad and made his decision to play for Poland on that basis. I'd say the polish lads who were replaced in the WC team and squad won't have much time for Cash. From an Irish perspective in a similar situation would the player play for Ireland only after Poland said no. On the subject of some English born lads who played for Ireland, say the likes of Holland and Townsend, to my mind they represented Ireland with total commitment, dedication and pride but if I'm honest I regard them as English. That might piss some people off but I'm being true to what I believe.

Per Cash himself, he tried to get involved with Poland years previously while at Forest, but the Polish FA stonewalled him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by Claret Murph Claret Murph wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

I don’t have any issue with 2 or 3 generation Irish wanting to play for the country they are born in. In fact it’s kind of natural.
We are seeing it more here now with many 2nd generation players from Eastern European/African backgrounds but are in the set up and no intention of going elsewhere. They are born here, their friends are from here, they pick up the culture and the love for the Irish team maybe going to matches with dad and/ or friends and the ones that are really good at football will play with other good Irish footballers at underage and the end goal will be to make it to the senior Irish team and I think it will be only a minority of players we would miss out in because they choose to play for the country of their parent’s birth instead of sticking around with ireland. 

But when we do get 2nd generations into the team and especially if they are very promising like in Premier League level academies, I think we should have an eye on fast tracking them. It feels dirty to say it and maybe sensing that perhaps, deep down, we were a second choice for a player, however, if circumstances mean they were tied to us, we could use them and they are making the team better then sorry, that is what is most important for me, as long as they are giving their all and not making it obvious that they would rather be somewhere else.
I think that would have been the case with Rice I think he would have really embraced it and potentially already the captain.

I wouldn't be too sure on that when it comes to players that may have Polish or parents from other eastern European countries. 

I was chatting with a Nigerian fella around a year ago who said his son played with Shamrock Rovers U17s. As an aside he had nothing but praise for Rovers and how well they treated the players and families. I asked him would the majority of many Irish born players with Nigerian parents/heritage be more likely to play for Nigeria than Ireland and he was fairly certain pretty much all would play for Ireland which was comforting to hear. 

I don't think that may necessarily be the case with the Polish/Lithuanians/ Latvians etc as these countries are a lot closer to Ireland, their parents would speak to their children in their own country's language, regularly travel over and back on holidays etc so any potential Irish born star players with Polish parents may understandably feel Polish and be more likely to commit to Poland. 

Hope I'm wrong on that. 
Seems a reasonable assessment  - we haven't really had the quandary of lads with eastern and central european parentage. I would see the example of Matty Cash who plays for Poland through his mother despite being born in England. I would imagine his agent put out feelers to Southgate to see if Cash had a chance of making the England squad and made his decision to play for Poland on that basis. I'd say the polish lads who were replaced in the WC team and squad won't have much time for Cash. From an Irish perspective in a similar situation would the player play for Ireland only after Poland said no. On the subject of some English born lads who played for Ireland, say the likes of Holland and Townsend, to my mind they represented Ireland with total commitment, dedication and pride but if I'm honest I regard them as English. That might piss some people off but I'm being true to what I believe.

Per Cash himself, he tried to get involved with Poland years previously while at Forest, but the Polish FA stonewalled him.
Ashley Barnes was linked to Austria for a while met someone over there but never got any further .

Austria don't offer citizenship to people with Austrian grandparents I believe, so even though he was eligible from a FIFA perspective, he was basically told by Austria they wouldn't be making an exception for him.
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Jack Charlton
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I think Irish born players with two central/eastern European born parents will be a potential issue alright. Much easier for those lads to represent Poland/Slovakia/Latvia etc than it is for the Nigerian-Irish players to represent Nigeria. Think we will lose a few from the first generation of Irish born players to their parents' native countries, but it's likely that as time goes on the links will fade a bit once it's grandparents that provide the link.

To the best of my knowledge we've never lost an Irish born player that we'd have wanted to cap to another country (I'm excluding players born in the north here obviously). The likes of Lopes and Zayed would never have made it with us. This may well change in the next few years though with the number of Irish born players of continental European origins that are likely to come through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2022 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

  - we haven't really had the quandary of lads with eastern and central european parentage. I would see the example of Matty Cash who plays for Poland through his mother despite being born in England. I would imagine his agent put out feelers to Southgate to see if Cash had a chance of making the England squad and made his decision to play for Poland on that basis. I'd say the polish lads who were replaced in the WC team and squad won't have much time for Cash. From an Irish perspective in a similar situation would the player play for Ireland only after Poland said no. On the subject of some English born lads who played for Ireland, say the likes of Holland and Townsend, to my mind they represented Ireland with total commitment, dedication and pride but if I'm honest I regard them as English. That might piss some people off but I'm being true to what I believe.
"I would see", I would imagine", "I regard them as", "what I believe"

I've no doubt that those are your honest opinions, and they may be correct ones, too.

But seriously, why do you think you have the right to assign identity to others, especially people whom you don't know and have never met?

Don't you accept it is for people like Cash to determine what their identity is, including dual, or even multiple, identities? And to bring this back to the subject of this thread, surely the same applies to Martin O'Neill, who should be allowed to determine for himself whether he's a Gael, a Brit, a Nordie, or some combination of the three?

Of course, people will subsequently make their own mind up whether they like or respect someones choice(s), nonetheless that choice must still always be his, not theirs.




Edited by Territorial - 09 Dec 2022 at 1:37pm
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