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Ronnie Whelan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Itsthere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:35am
Lads why take a risk with another foreign manager ? O'Neill is an Irishman, he knows the players, he knows the culture, he knows what he has at his disposal and has buckets of experience (granted not at international level but still a very experienced football man)
 
There is no point in hiring a foreign coach that is going to try to play like Barcelona because we dont have the players to do that.  Im not saying we need to play hit and hope-long ball sh*te but you dont become a sucessful PL manager by playing that way and I dont believe that O'Neill is purely a long ball manager. He doesnt play the most attractive of football but anything would be  better than the crap we've been watching over the past couple of years. a few years ago if we had a chance of getting O'Neill as manager we would have jumped at it.
 
We need to be realistic and for the players we have for his knowledge and experience alone O'Neill should be a shoe in. If he wants it.
 
Failing that Mick should be offered it.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nice triangles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:38am
I don't see what the big rush is in getting a new coach. Sooner would be better but this should be seen as a long term appointment, 5 years +, so if we have to wait to get the right man then so be it.
I also don't see the need for the manager to be Irish. If the best man available on the planet is Irish then fair enough.
The only area in International football where you are given a totally free pick (nationality) is the management team. Obviously the playing squad need to be Irish or Irish qualified but we have completely free reign with the nationality of the management. Why we would impose unnecessary restrictions on who we could appoint is madness.
Bigger countries than us have looked beyond their borders for a manager (Portugal, Russia, England etc..). There is no shame in it, it is just common sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jinky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Ibaraki Ibaraki wrote:

Originally posted by jinky jinky wrote:

People should be delighted if o'neill gets the job,its not exactly a highly sought after job in football

 
We've never had a problem getting someone to do the job before Confused
 
oh yeah I forgot,Steve staunton and Brian kerr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:43am
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:



Similar style of play to Trap - we may end up again hoofing the ball to 2 big lads upfront.


We dont have any big lads who are strikers and good enough to be starting. 

Long and Doyle are decent enough in the air but neither is over 6 foot. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:44am
Originally posted by Stoked Up Stoked Up wrote:

Originally posted by Stillhuntinghenry Stillhuntinghenry wrote:

 
O'neills management record makes him the best candidate ?? I beg to differ - dave o'leary's management record

Leeds United

1998/9 -        4th EPL
1999/2000 -   3rd EPL
                      SF UEFA Cup
2000/01 -      4th EPL
                      SF Champions League
2001/2 -        5th EPL

Aston Villa

2003/4 - 6th EPL
2004/5 - 10th EPL

He's actually the most successful Irish manager that I can think of.


Yet he won nothing, nor got sides to cup finals. O'Leary inherited George Graham's wonderfully constructed Leeds side and despite early promise,<span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.4;"> he ruined it, spending what was then a kings ransom and then failing to keep them in the CL places, which contributed hugely to that clubs demise and his own sacking. </span><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.4;">The CL SF was brilliant but he failed to build on that.</span>

At Villa, the decline accelerated in the next season, when they narrowly avoided relegation then he was fired.

He was also fired out in the UAE, after more failings.

No thanks.




It's not true that O'Leary's success at Leeds was down to George Graham's team, in fact the first thing he did was sack off most of the journeymen Graham had constructed his team with and give youth it's chance. If you compare the Leeds team from Graham's last game with the team O'Leary was picking 12 months later it's radically different. And while he won nothing, the fact that he had the team challenging while having major players involved in an initial court case and a retrial is an achievement in itself. He does have baggage tho and has been out of the loop a long time.

O'Neill plays a pretty uninspiring style of football and wouldn't be my first choice. His reputation is overhyped and his achievements at Celtic over rated. It was Wim Jansen who knocked Rangers off their perch and brought Larsson to the club. O'Neill had a huge budget regularly spending sums in the region of 6m which were big fees back then. His failure to finish top 2 in any of his Champions League campaigns concerns me as does the two last day SPL failures when the pressure was on. That said, international football could suit him, I think having John Robertson on the ticket is essential.

Edit: I think the job is his if he wants it by the way, it's exactly the sort of populist appointment JD would cream himself over and would be popular with the fair weather fan that has as much football knowledge as he does.

Edited by Drumcondra 69er - 12 Sep 2013 at 10:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:45am
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:



Similar style of play to Trap - we may end up again hoofing the ball to 2 big lads upfront.



We dont have any big lads who are strikers and good enough to be starting. 

Long and Doyle are decent enough in the air but neither is over 6 foot. 


Sammon and Walters.

Long is not tall but very good in the air.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:48am
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:



Similar style of play to Trap - we may end up again hoofing the ball to 2 big lads upfront.



We dont have any big lads who are strikers and good enough to be starting. 

Long and Doyle are decent enough in the air but neither is over 6 foot. 


Sammon and Walters.

Long is not tall but very good in the air.

Sammon won't get back near a squad surely (fingers crossed)

Yeah Walters will probably start up front quite a bit. Forgot about him to be honest 




Edited by Roberto Baggio - 12 Sep 2013 at 10:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanyshuffler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:48am
Originally posted by jinky jinky wrote:

Originally posted by Ibaraki Ibaraki wrote:

Originally posted by jinky jinky wrote:

People should be delighted if o'neill gets the job,its not exactly a highly sought after job in football

 
We've never had a problem getting someone to do the job before Confused
 
oh yeah I forgot,Steve staunton and Brian kerr

....Tony Mowbary
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibaraki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Itsthere Itsthere wrote:

There is no point in hiring a foreign coach that is going to try to play like Barcelona because we dont have the players to do that.
 
Why does everybody come out with that line when you mention playing a passing game?
 
I don't think anyone is expecting Ireland to be as good as Barcelona, but I don't think it's too much to ask professional footballers to pass the ball through midfield.
 
Are you suggesting that James McCarthy isn't good enough to receive a pass from a defender and then pass it on to a forward?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:50am

Comparing O'Leary at Leeds and O'Neill at Celtic is bizarre considering the legacies left behind. Leeds are in the poorhouse and Celtic in the CL group stages again........

" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jinky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:57am
Originally posted by seanyshuffler seanyshuffler wrote:

Originally posted by jinky jinky wrote:

Originally posted by Ibaraki Ibaraki wrote:

Originally posted by jinky jinky wrote:

People should be delighted if o'neill gets the job,its not exactly a highly sought after job in football

 
We've never had a problem getting someone to do the job before Confused
 
oh yeah I forgot,Steve staunton and Brian kerr

....Tony Mowbary
he wasn't Ireland manager
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uibhfaillian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:58am
I hope O'Neill gets the job, he'll get the best out of our players.  Hughton would be a good choice but doubt we'll get him, he's a young manager who sees his future in the EPL for the next few years.  Mick McCarthy? he did a good job when here before but you should never go back. 

Go for O'Neill, he'll put confidence back into the players.  We'd certainly qualify for Euro 2016 with O'Neill and we'd give a good account of ourselves there as well, we'd fear no-one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Itsthere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:59am
Originally posted by Ibaraki Ibaraki wrote:

Originally posted by Itsthere Itsthere wrote:

There is no point in hiring a foreign coach that is going to try to play like Barcelona because we dont have the players to do that.
 
Why does everybody come out with that line when you mention playing a passing game?
 
I don't think anyone is expecting Ireland to be as good as Barcelona, but I don't think it's too much to ask professional footballers to pass the ball through midfield.
 
Are you suggesting that James McCarthy isn't good enough to receive a pass from a defender and then pass it on to a forward?
 
No, if you read the rest of the post Im suggesting that at the moment, after the Trap era of miscommunication, poor selections, narrowmindedness and poor man management - O'Neill would be ideal for the job as communication, man management and knowledge of the players at his disposal are his strengths. The exact opposite of what Trap offered.
 
I'm not saying our midfield cant pass the ball but saying that O'Neill would be a carbon copy of traps style of play is not true. You dont become a semi sucessful manager in the EPL by playing "Trap type 1980s football" and I dont believe the comparisons to O'Neill's style of play are accurate.
 
Im all for us passing the ball and playing to our strengths (McCarthy, Hoolohan etc) Im saying  O'Neill is the best man and believe he would use this players to their strengths not ignore them because they dont fit into his "system" like trap did.  
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanyshuffler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:04am
Originally posted by jinky jinky wrote:

Originally posted by seanyshuffler seanyshuffler wrote:

Originally posted by jinky jinky wrote:

Originally posted by Ibaraki Ibaraki wrote:

Originally posted by jinky jinky wrote:

People should be delighted if o'neill gets the job,its not exactly a highly sought after job in football

 
We've never had a problem getting someone to do the job before Confused
 
oh yeah I forgot,Steve staunton and Brian kerr

....Tony Mowbary
he wasn't Ireland manager

I don't think you're that stupid to get what I'm pointing out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RogerMilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:08am
Originally posted by jinky jinky wrote:

Originally posted by Ibaraki Ibaraki wrote:

Originally posted by jinky jinky wrote:

People should be delighted if o'neill gets the job,its not exactly a highly sought after job in football

 
We've never had a problem getting someone to do the job before Confused
 
oh yeah I forgot,Steve staunton and Brian kerr
 
 
jack charlton , bobby robson, trap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jinky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:09am
Originally posted by RogerMilla RogerMilla wrote:

Originally posted by jinky jinky wrote:

Originally posted by Ibaraki Ibaraki wrote:

Originally posted by jinky jinky wrote:

People should be delighted if o'neill gets the job,its not exactly a highly sought after job in football


 

We've never had a problem getting someone to do the job before Confused

 
oh yeah I forgot,Steve staunton and Brian kerr
 
 

jack charlton , bobby robson, trap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:16am
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Comparing O'Leary at Leeds and O'Neill at Celtic is bizarre considering the legacies left behind. Leeds are in the poorhouse and Celtic in the CL group stages again........



Dave O'Leary left Leeds 5th in the Premier league with a cracking squad, the fact they're in the poorhouse now has a hell of lot more to do with Terry Venables taking that top 5 squad into a relegation scrap and Peter Reid compounding things when he took over.

Gordon Strachan had to move on most of O'Neill's team to slash the wage bill yet still got it out of 2 CL groups and won 3 titles in a row which O'Neill never managed. If anything, the template for how Celtic are run today comes from Strachan's time rather than O'Neill's.


Edited by Drumcondra 69er - 12 Sep 2013 at 11:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Del-Piero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:17am
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:



O'Neill plays a pretty uninspiring style of football and wouldn't be my first choice. His reputation is overhyped and his achievements at Celtic over rated. It was Wim Jansen who knocked Rangers off their perch and brought Larsson to the club. O'Neill had a huge budget regularly spending sums in the region of 6m which were big fees back then. His failure to finish top 2 in any of his Champions League campaigns concerns me as does the two last day SPL failures when the pressure was on.


Wim Jansen did stop the 10, but hardly knocked them off their perch Confused Even if he did resign straight after, Rangers won the title at ease the following year, in a season Celtic were carried by Larsson's devastating form up front. He only managed 16 goals in his first season under Jansen. It was under Venglos where Larsson really showed his true form and this was still the case when Barnes arrived in 99. However, that leg break had the potential to ruin his career. Instead, the following year he recovers to scores 53 goals in O'Neills first season. He formed memorable striking partnerships with Hartson and Sutton in that time as well. O'Neill deserves some credit for maintaining Larsson's form and getting even more from the Swede.

In his first 2 seasons yes, he spent big money in SPL terms but he had rebuild the squad after the Barnes/Dalglish debacle. The following 3 seasons he spent nowhere near that amount on players. Also, Rangers nearly spent twice the money O'Neill did in this time and could only manage two titles, both won on the final day through goal difference and a late Scott McDonald strike.

With regards to those final day losses, in 02/03 they were in the middle of that UEFA Cup run. Rangers found out themselves in 07/08 how tough it can be to stay in the ascendency in a title race while trying to win a European trophy. 04/05 was disappointing yes, but the man was under pressure outside of football at the time. IMO it would be a bit harsh to question/judge the man's ability to deal with pressure under those circumstances.

O'Neill does have the least impressive Champions League record against Strachan and Lennon, but it is a record hardly to be ashamed of. It was a dubious late penalty that denied Celtic taking a point in Turin v Juventus the 01/02 group stage that would have seen them qualify for the next phase in 01/02. The same happened again in 03/04 against Lyon in the final group stage tie. And this is Celtic we are talking about as well, not some team from a major European league.
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