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The Huntacha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2019 at 8:47am
If Gary McKay says he's with us, then I'm happy enough with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 50%lesssugar&salt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2019 at 10:13am
Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

If Gary McKay says he's with us, then I'm happy enough with that.

LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 5:08pm
I see Wales have called up Terry Taylor (Wolves U-18 midfielder born in Scotland), and Dylan Levitt (Man United U-18 from England). Kind of says everything you need to know about how international football is developing, and illustrates why the likes of Connell have to be integrated quickly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 6:04pm
Levitt is well regarded and has loads of caps for their under-19s. Again, their lack of depth is as much an issue as anything else. Hence why we have Connell in our squad.

Taylor's call-up does seem like politicking, especially as he was recently called-up bu both Wles and Scotland at underage level and chose Scotland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 8:04pm
With respect PM, you're off there; and O'Shea is spot-on.  

Wales aren't picking these lads because of lack of depth - they're picking them to make sure they don't lose them in the future, similar to capping Harry Wilson 6 years ago at 16 when he was playing for Liverpool's academy side, many years before making a senior club appearance in the championship: what a player he's turning out to be.  

Wales actually, sadly for us and unusually, have greater depth than us at the moment - the following players would be well ahead of Taylor or Levitt in (current) ability and experience and yet weren't picked (most of whom are available):

GKDanny Ward22 June 1993 (age 25)60England Leicester Cityv.  Slovakia, 24 March 2019
DFBen Davies24 April 1993 (age 26)440England Tottenham Hotspurv.  Slovakia, 24 March 2019
DFDeclan John30 June 1995 (age 23)70Wales Swansea Cityv.  Slovakia, 24 March 2019
DFPaul Dummett26 September 1991 (age 27)50England Newcastle Unitedv.  Slovakia, 24 March 2019

DFKieron Freeman21 March 1992 (age 27)10England Sheffield Unitedv.  Albania, 20 November 2018
DFJames Chester23 January 1989 (age 30)350England Aston Villav.  Denmark, 16 November 2018
DFJazz Richards12 April 1991 (age 28)140Wales Cardiff Cityv.  Republic of Ireland, 16 October 2018


MFAaron Ramsey26 December 1990 (age 28)5814England Arsenalv.  Slovakia, 24 March 2019 WD
MFLee Evans24 July 1994 (age 24)40England Wigan Athleticv.  Slovakia, 24 March 2019 PRE
MFEthan Ampadu14 September 2000 (age 18)60England Chelseav.  Trinidad and Tobago, 20 March 2019 WD
MFAndy King29 October 1988 (age 30)502England Leicester Cityv.  Albania, 20 November 2018
MFGwion Edwards1 March 1993 (age 26)00England Ipswich Townv.  Republic of Ireland, 16 October 2018
MFJoe Ledley23 January 1987 (age 32)774Unattachedv.  Denmark, 9 September 2018

FWBen Woodburn15 October 1999 (age 19)102England Liverpoolv.  Slovakia, 24 March 2019
FWTyler Roberts12 January 1999 (age 20)60England Leeds Unitedv.  Slovakia, 24 March 2019
FWTom Lawrence13 January 1994 (age 25)183England Derby Countyv.  Trinidad and Tobago, 20 March 2019 WD



Edited by Luis Amor Rodriguez - 27 May 2019 at 8:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 8:34pm
With no respect whatsoever, why the f**k would they pick a goalkeeper ahead of a midfielder? Or a defender, etc.

And why are only most of them available? Surely all of them should be available, otherwise you are  only undermining your own argument twice!

Ledley's career, for Wales at least, is over. Gwion Edwards is sh*te, and Lee Evans was never funny. I would imagine the others have a reason for not being in the squad, he is hardly being called up ahead of Ramsey, for example, hence why they have given one of their more promising young fellas a call-up. A quick look at the Welsh forum and there wasn't a huge amount of surprise about his call-up. There is a lot more about Taylor, who it appears has split loyalties between his Welsh mother and Scottish father.

Anyway, how many of the young Welsh players that they have capped to tie-down have not proved to be good enough for them? If they were just doing it to tie players down they would have a few flops? I am sure I remember people on here  saying they only capped Tom Lawrence to tie him down, despite the fact he wasn't eligible for anybody else, or at least he is Welsh and had no interest in playing for anybody else!
 I would say the opinion passed as fact on here, that the Welsh are just  capping lads to tie them down and we are stupid not to be doing the same, is greatly exaggerated. I would say it is as much to do with their ability and, as I mentioned, Wales' lack of depth.
In a year or so, we may well be in a similar situation as our younger players mature. Connell could be seen as an early example. He probably isn't ready, but our lack of midfielders means he may get a chance.


Edited by pre Madonna - 27 May 2019 at 8:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 8:52pm
Wales don't have a lot of depth, but you're deluding yourself if you think that's why they've called those lads up. It's blatently a continuation of a policy Wales have been executing for 5/6 years now. Calling up Levitt is a bit like if we called up Louie Barry, and there's not a chance in hell you'd be arguing that is a "justified" call up....
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Wales don't have a lot of depth, but you're deluding yourself if you think that's why they've called those lads up. It's blatently a continuation of a policy Wales have been executing for 5/6 years now. Calling up Levitt is a bit like if we called up Louie Barry, and there's not a chance in hell you'd be arguing that is a "justified" call up....
How many of the young players they have capped  haven't adapted to international football? They certainly have a policy of giving youth a chance and  it is nearly always been justified with hindsight. I certainly wouldn't be assuming they called Levitt up to cap him. It is most likely to give him experience as he seems to be one of the standouts of their next generation.
Taylor might be the same, although there is at least some evidence to the contrary, given he has been called up by Scotland too.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 12:25am
Grand so PM, with no respect if you prefer (just trying to avoid the trolling tenor that sometimes passes for chat on here) - but you're totally off.  

Loads of the dual and tri-nationality players Wales have capped as teens when they were playing youth are reserve football have (already) gone on to prove their worth.  

e.g.: David Brooks, now a £20 million regular in the PL and still 19/20; Ampadu, an amazing prospect and played our "experienced" boys off the pitch in Cardiff; Chris Mepham, PL regular with Bournemouth at 21; Ben Woodburn, played PL and Championship; Tyler Roberts at Leeds; Matondo, regular for Schalke in the Bundesliga; Matthew Smith, regular for Twente, rated highly by City.  Nearly all those lads are still teenagers, so will only get better.  I could go on.   Most of these would get have a good chance of getting into our 11.  

What do those lads have in common?  
- None of them are born in Wales.   
- They were all capped at senior level as teens whilst still in reserve and youth teams (Mepham at 20 in the Championship, exceptionally), and 
- they've all, already turned out to be either good, or excellent players, with loads of room to improve even further. 

If you don't think Wales don't have a clearly thought out policy here (Harry Wilson being capped at 16 with one minute to go in a game while in Liverpool's academy!), you're deluded.  

And furthermore, now, as a result of that policy, they have more depth nowadays than we do, a huge change from decades gone by.  

They certainly would not have lost the likes of Rice, Grealish and (Michael) Keane.  


Edited by Luis Amor Rodriguez - 28 May 2019 at 1:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 1:04am
We didnt lose them ffs they defected for the pound signs. This bollix about capping ****s for the sake of it is just that, bollix. If they want to play for us and are good enough then they will win their caps. Capping players for the sake of it is Pathetic. If we ‘lose’ more players then let them f**k off, they didn't really give a sh*t in the first place. Dont give a rats what Wales or anyone else do. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerry Geary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 1:36am
Originally posted by Sham157 Sham157 wrote:

We didnt lose them ffs they defected for the pound signs. This bollix about capping ****s for the sake of it is just that, bollix. If they want to play for us and are good enough then they will win their caps. Capping players for the sake of it is Pathetic. If we ‘lose’ more players then let them f**k off, they didn't really give a sh*t in the first place. Dont give a rats what Wales or anyone else do. 
HEY man get real. I think Wales policy is justified and terrific. We need a mixture of it but 5/6 new players should be capped each year. For the sake of it. International football is today's exposure and recognition.

Edited by Gerry Geary - 28 May 2019 at 1:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 1:40am
Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

PM, you're totally off.  

Loads of the dual and tri-nationality players Wales have capped as teens when they were playing youth are reserve football have (already) gone on to prove their worth.  

e.g.: David Brooks, now a £20 million regular in the PL and still 19/20; Ampadu, an amazing prospect and played our "experienced" boys off the pitch in Cardiff; Chris Mepham, PL regular with Bournemouth at 21; Ben Woodburn, played PL and Championship; Tyler Roberts at Leeds; Matondo, regular for Schalke in the Bundesliga; Matthew Smith, regular for Twente, rated highly by City.  Nearly all those lads are still teenagers, so will only get better.  I could go on.   Most of these would get have a good chance of getting into our 11.  

What do those lads have in common?  
- None of them are born in Wales.   
- They were all capped at senior level as teens (Mepham at 20) whilst still in reserve and youth teams, and 
- they've all, already turned out to be either good, or excellent players, with loads of room to improve even further. 

If you don't think Wales don't have a clearly thought out policy here (Harry Wilson being capped at 16 with one minute to go in a game while in Liverpool's academy!), you're deluded.  

And furthermore, now, as a result of that policy, they have more depth nowadays than we do.  

They certainly would not have lost the likes of Rice, Grealish and (Michael) Keane.  
I’m not sure what I am arguing against here as nearly all of that backs up my point! They are all very good footballers, that’s why they were capped. What Wales clearly have is a very good link between their youth and senior teams, something we need to address.The fact remains that all of those players mentioned, as well as the other young players not mentioned becaused they weren’t dual nationals, immediately became squad regulars. If they capped Wilson at 16 and we didn’t hear of him for a few years, you would have more of an argument. Wales have a history of capping players young, something that has become more apparent in recent years, largely as they got results from it in France. Most of that group came through together, many of them capped at seventeen, so they are going to try and repeat it and, given some of the talent mentioned, they might. 

I have no problem with us trying to follow that blueprint, but we need to have the players coming through( it looks like we will in a year or two) for that. I also think people are deliberately misunderstanding it, and exaggerating that, to suit their own ‘football manager’ type agendas of ‘losing’ players.  I have no problem capping young lads, no matter who else they are eligible for, once they are good enough or going to be good enough.

The problem, with Grealish at least, was identification and connection between the seniors and underage teams. He was clearly good enough. In the end though, he didn’t want to play for us.
Keane never wanted to play for us, so it is irrelevant.
Rice was a bit of a freak occurrence. People can talk about capping him against Moldova, but the reality is even Rice had no intention of playing for anybody else until Southgate called him up. He also seems to have been something of a late developer.

The most important thing here should always be ability and potential, not just getting them tied down.






Edited by pre Madonna - 28 May 2019 at 1:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grannyrule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 1:40am
I have absolutely no problem with throwing young dual-national players with potential on with a few minutes to go to tie them and avoid this 'will he or won't he' BS down the line. We've been far too naive with our previous policy but surely the lesson is now learned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cildaratown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 4:23am
Surprised the Welsh youth go along with this cap tie business and don’t wait things out another year or two like our youth do. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Banjaxed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 5:59am
Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Surprised the Welsh youth go along with this cap tie business and don’t wait things out another year or two like our youth do. 

It's understandable. Rice played for Ireland (cause let's be honest) he didn't know how good he himself was going to be and how soon that talent would suddenly attract attention. 

I'm sure there are plenty of talented under age dual players who think that an Irish international call up will be as good as it gets. Maybe Connell is committed, but let's give him another before capping him. Let's see where his stance is if he has joined an new club and is playing a blinder. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 8:27am
Originally posted by Banjaxed Banjaxed wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Surprised the Welsh youth go along with this cap tie business and don’t wait things out another year or two like our youth do. 

It's understandable. Rice played for Ireland (cause let's be honest) he didn't know how good he himself was going to be and how soon that talent would suddenly attract attention. 

I'm sure there are plenty of talented under age dual players who think that an Irish international call up will be as good as it gets. Maybe Connell is committed, but let's give him another before capping him. Let's see where his stance is if he has joined an new club and is playing a blinder. 


Why wait? Then if he does defect we've completely wasted our time and a squad place that could have been used to integrate some other young player. Some people seem to think competitively capping a player like Connell would devalue the Irish shirt, but surely there can be no bigger waste and devaluation of the shirt than the time spent on and caps handed out to Rice...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenny82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 8:49am
Capping him doesn't "tie" him to us. It just stops him playing for anybody else. There is no obligation for them to play for us again.

They should be capped on merit, not eligibility.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUBLIN DOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 8:59am
Originally posted by Sham157 Sham157 wrote:

We didnt lose them ffs they defected for the pound signs. This bollix about capping ****s for the sake of it is just that, bollix. If they want to play for us and are good enough then they will win their caps. Capping players for the sake of it is Pathetic. If we ‘lose’ more players then let them f**k off, they didn't really give a sh*t in the first place. Dont give a rats what Wales or anyone else do. 
Clap as Tony Greene would say ”in one”

Edited by DUBLIN DOC - 28 May 2019 at 9:00am
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