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Kevin Kilbane
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By far the outstanding candidate. 
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Fitz Fitz wrote:



Kenny is out of his depth and has been from the off; there’s no point going any further with him. The fans don’t “deserve” any more of him, that’s for sure. Most of us want us to see Ireland play good football, and don’t want to see the likes of Bruce/Big Sam/Lennon etc., but we also need to see results at some stage. We cannot wait forever for some ‘project’ to reach fruition - surely there’s a happy-medium somewhere. 

I've previously used the analogy of the acquaintance we all have who is constantly talking about the app they are building, or the novel they are writing. It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy that their life will be so much better once its done, but it is never done, always being worked on, and when the chips are down that is when they are most likely to do all the big talking about it. Same here, the last vestiges of people who see a future for Kenny beyond this campaign would rather us be a terminal 'project', and avoid having to conclude that at some point there is no further it can go. And this is why we never see the novel or the app in the flesh. Better to have a great one that never sees the light of day, rather than one that does, and fails. You cant keep projecting into the future.

We've qualified for 2 tournaments in 20 years, waiting 3 years for a qualification is not an unusual amount of time. 

We're not waiting three years though, we're waiting eight years and counting. Best case scenario is 10 years, 12 years (Euro 2028) is more realistic. That's the longest gap we've had since our first qualification at Euro 88, and it's despite there being more qualification places available for the Euros than ever.

We're at risk of turning into a Norway type team who produce nice players, a small number of excellent ones, and never qualify for anything (they haven't had a qualification since 1999). The World Cup is obviously a bigger ask, but any longer term strategies have to be factored around qualifying for the Euros every time. Anything else is failure.

It was 10 years between the World Cup and the disastrous Polish Euros. It's 7 years since we were at France, not 8, and only 3 of those 7 have been under Kenny. So clearly the return to "pragmatic" football that so many crave had not been working prior to Kenny either.

I'm not actually concerned who the manager is, so long as they follow through on the overall vision of a football team that actually attempts to play football. None of the candidates mentioned would convince me of that, they're far more in the mould of guys who'll look to get a bounce for a couple of years, and then move on when we're in an even bigger mess than we were when they took over. A good custodian leaves things in a better state than he found them, we've been able to say that about vanishingly few of our managers since Charlton.
We're decent enough..
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It's eight years since we last qualified, not seven. We last qualified in 2015.
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Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What is so special about Carsley?  Totally unproven and while he has had success at U21 level it is no indication he will be a success at senior level.

Just look at Stephen Kenny.  Was getting great results with the U21s and has been the worst manager in our history.

We need a proven manager who can get results while playing a somewhat decent brand of football. 

Its no coincidence all our major qualifications came from managers with authority and a proven track record.

Our experiments have all ended disastrously.  Kerr, Staunton, Kenny...

I fully agree with you. I don’t see the clamour for Carsley myself. As you say he’s totally unproven at this level.
Kenny has 10 wins in charge of Ireland after 36 matches which came against Scotland, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Malta, Lithuania, Gibraltar, Andorra, Latvia, Qatar and Lux. In other words, nobody of note.
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Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:


It's eight years since we last qualified, not seven. We last qualified in 2015.

It's 7 years since we were at a tournament, who on earth counts from the date of qualification rather than the tournament itself??

Care to adress the other points? Why revert to "pragmatic football" if it has been so spectacularly unsuccessful for us? It's qualified us via a playoff twice in the last 20 years, it was completely unwatchable and ineffective in the four years prior to the current regime. It stunk the place out so badly we literally had a mostly empty stadium for numerous matches. Is this what we want back in the hope that it *might* get us a playoff once every decade?
We're decent enough..
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Originally posted by grannyrule grannyrule wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What is so special about Carsley?  Totally unproven and while he has had success at U21 level it is no indication he will be a success at senior level.

Just look at Stephen Kenny.  Was getting great results with the U21s and has been the worst manager in our history.

We need a proven manager who can get results while playing a somewhat decent brand of football. 

Its no coincidence all our major qualifications came from managers with authority and a proven track record.

Our experiments have all ended disastrously.  Kerr, Staunton, Kenny...

I fully agree with you. I don’t see the clamour for Carsley myself. As you say he’s totally unproven at this level.

Will be a stick to beat him with if it doesn’t work out but he is highly thought of in footballing circles (according to his mate Kilbane) and has turned down jobs (Brentford being one, obviously before they got in the Dane).

If we are only going to be splashing out 500-750k a year, we can’t really have too high aspirations about getting a higher profile managers. we would be shopping in the aisle with Bruce, McKenna, Mark Kennedy, etc. 
Think I would take Carsley over those names.
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Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:


It's eight years since we last qualified, not seven. We last qualified in 2015.

It's 7 years since we were at a tournament, who on earth counts from the date of qualification rather than the tournament itself??


Evidently you, given that your original comment twice referenced qualifying for tournaments, and didn't reference playing in one.

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

We've qualified for 2 tournaments in 20 years, waiting 3 years for a qualification is not an unusual amount of time. 
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Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Originally posted by grannyrule grannyrule wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What is so special about Carsley?  Totally unproven and while he has had success at U21 level it is no indication he will be a success at senior level.

Just look at Stephen Kenny.  Was getting great results with the U21s and has been the worst manager in our history.

We need a proven manager who can get results while playing a somewhat decent brand of football. 

Its no coincidence all our major qualifications came from managers with authority and a proven track record.

Our experiments have all ended disastrously.  Kerr, Staunton, Kenny...

I fully agree with you. I don’t see the clamour for Carsley myself. As you say he’s totally unproven at this level.

Will be a stick to beat him with if it doesn’t work out but he is highly thought of in footballing circles (according to his mate Kilbane) and has turned down jobs (Brentford being one, obviously before they got in the Dane).

If we are only going to be splashing out 500-750k a year, we can’t really have too high aspirations about getting a higher profile managers. we would be shopping in the aisle with Bruce, McKenna, Mark Kennedy, etc. 
Think I would take Carsley over those names.


I suppose the counter-argument would be that at least McKenna and Kennedy have some experience with men's football. Well, so does Carsley technically, but only a handful of games as caretaker. To be honest, I don't see any young coach with aspirations taking the gamble and managing us. The money isn't that good and the potential reputational hit may not be worth it.
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One advantage Carsley has over Kenny is that he seems a "coach's coach" : very technical and tactical, along the lines of a Chris Hughton type figure.

For all Kenny's talk about beautiful football etc, he seems more along the lines of an old fashioned 'man manager' and not actually very good at the coaching stuff.
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Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Fitz Fitz wrote:



Kenny is out of his depth and has been from the off; there’s no point going any further with him. The fans don’t “deserve” any more of him, that’s for sure. Most of us want us to see Ireland play good football, and don’t want to see the likes of Bruce/Big Sam/Lennon etc., but we also need to see results at some stage. We cannot wait forever for some ‘project’ to reach fruition - surely there’s a happy-medium somewhere. 

I've previously used the analogy of the acquaintance we all have who is constantly talking about the app they are building, or the novel they are writing. It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy that their life will be so much better once its done, but it is never done, always being worked on, and when the chips are down that is when they are most likely to do all the big talking about it. Same here, the last vestiges of people who see a future for Kenny beyond this campaign would rather us be a terminal 'project', and avoid having to conclude that at some point there is no further it can go. And this is why we never see the novel or the app in the flesh. Better to have a great one that never sees the light of day, rather than one that does, and fails. You cant keep projecting into the future.

We've qualified for 2 tournaments in 20 years, waiting 3 years for a qualification is not an unusual amount of time. Trap and O'Neill started fast before the ar** completely fell out of their regimes, precisely because they made no attempt to implement a long term plan. Their basic approach was to get a bounce out of the team, ride their luck with ageing players, and then leave someone else to deal with the car crash at the other side.

Kenny is the first manager in 15 years to actually attempt to rehabilitate the patient rather than just keeping them on life support for "one more crack at a playoff" - it takes time and patience which bandwagon fans don't have time for. Our football culture is toxic and rotten to the core, and judging on the past couple of years no one is ever going to be supported in trying to change that. Back to plan A I guess - lump the ball long, ride our luck, and pray for a playoff. Then we can all stick our heads in the sand rather than question why we can't produce players with the basic skills you would associate with a professional footballer.


If by ‘rehabilitate the patient’ you mean he has them sitting up in bed, sipping lucozade and smiling at people from time to time, then, yes, he has probably done that - it’s just that he’ll never improve the proverbial patient to a level where they actually leave the hospital. That’s not sticking our heads in the sand, or displaying an unfair lack of patience, it’s just an honest - and most would say ‘accurate’ - verdict based on what we’ve seen over a fairly considerable time. 





Edited by Fitz - 18 Sep 2023 at 3:40pm
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Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Originally posted by grannyrule grannyrule wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What is so special about Carsley?  Totally unproven and while he has had success at U21 level it is no indication he will be a success at senior level.

Just look at Stephen Kenny.  Was getting great results with the U21s and has been the worst manager in our history.

We need a proven manager who can get results while playing a somewhat decent brand of football. 

Its no coincidence all our major qualifications came from managers with authority and a proven track record.

Our experiments have all ended disastrously.  Kerr, Staunton, Kenny...

I fully agree with you. I don’t see the clamour for Carsley myself. As you say he’s totally unproven at this level.

Will be a stick to beat him with if it doesn’t work out but he is highly thought of in footballing circles (according to his mate Kilbane) and has turned down jobs (Brentford being one, obviously before they got in the Dane).

If we are only going to be splashing out 500-750k a year, we can’t really have too high aspirations about getting a higher profile managers. we would be shopping in the aisle with Bruce, McKenna, Mark Kennedy, etc. 
Think I would take Carsley over those names.



Just a point of order, we certainly will not be shopping in the Mc Kenna aisle, if we were, purchasing him would be a no brainer (my guess is he would have zero interest in us in any case). I'm of the opinion that we dont have enough to even purchase a Lee Carsley, let alone a Kieran McKenna.

Bearing that in mind, one name I havent seen mentioned at all, who might be a good option if we are genuinely skint is current Crystal Palace assistant manager Paddy McCarthy - Dublin born, Irish underage caps and a B cap, involved with various youth teams at Palace since 2016, highly regarded and has overseen a lot of Irish lads at the CP academy. Our current GK coach Dean Kiely actually works with him day to day as the current GK coach at Palace. Havent seen him mentioned at all in dispatches, but he's just turned 40, presumably has all the coaching badges, knows the inner workings of a top PL club and must surely have learned a lot working alongside Hodgson and Lewington. He could be an interesting candidate.




Edited by John Nice - 18 Sep 2023 at 3:45pm
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Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What is so special about Carsley?  Totally unproven and while he has had success at U21 level it is no indication he will be a success at senior level.



Aidy Boothroyd had a similar record before him I think yet don't see his name being put forward (nor should it)


Edited by Denis Irwin - 18 Sep 2023 at 5:10pm
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Originally posted by grannyrule grannyrule wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What is so special about Carsley?  Totally unproven and while he has had success at U21 level it is no indication he will be a success at senior level.

Just look at Stephen Kenny.  Was getting great results with the U21s and has been the worst manager in our history.

We need a proven manager who can get results while playing a somewhat decent brand of football. 

Its no coincidence all our major qualifications came from managers with authority and a proven track record.

Our experiments have all ended disastrously.  Kerr, Staunton, Kenny...

I fully agree with you. I don’t see the clamour for Carsley myself. As you say he’s totally unproven at this level.

Will be a stick to beat him with if it doesn’t work out but he is highly thought of in footballing circles (according to his mate Kilbane) and has turned down jobs (Brentford being one, obviously before they got in the Dane).

If we are only going to be splashing out 500-750k a year, we can’t really have too high aspirations about getting a higher profile managers. we would be shopping in the aisle with Bruce, McKenna, Mark Kennedy, etc. 
Think I would take Carsley over those names.



Just a point of order, we certainly will not be shopping in the Mc Kenna aisle, if we were, purchasing him would be a no brainer (my guess is he would have zero interest in us in any case). I'm of the opinion that we dont have enough to even purchase a Lee Carsley, let alone a Kieran McKenna.

Bearing that in mind, one name I havent seen mentioned at all, who might be a good option if we are genuinely skint is current Crystal Palace assistant manager Paddy McCarthy - Dublin born, Irish underage caps and a B cap, involved with various youth teams at Palace since 2016, highly regarded and has overseen a lot of Irish lads at the CP academy. Our current GK coach Dean Kiely actually works with him day to day as the current GK coach at Palace. Havent seen him mentioned at all in dispatches, but he's just turned 40, presumably has all the coaching badges, knows the inner workings of a top PL club and must surely have learned a lot working alongside Hodgson and Lewington. He could be an interesting candidate.




He would be a gamble and I don't want any more gambles.  IMO should be getting a proven manager not some fella who has no experience of management at top level football.   The last thing we want is another fella learnign on the job for another 3 years wasting qualifying campaigns and dropping our ranking into an unrecoverable position for qualifcation.
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Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Originally posted by grannyrule grannyrule wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What is so special about Carsley?  Totally unproven and while he has had success at U21 level it is no indication he will be a success at senior level.

Just look at Stephen Kenny.  Was getting great results with the U21s and has been the worst manager in our history.

We need a proven manager who can get results while playing a somewhat decent brand of football. 

Its no coincidence all our major qualifications came from managers with authority and a proven track record.

Our experiments have all ended disastrously.  Kerr, Staunton, Kenny...

I fully agree with you. I don’t see the clamour for Carsley myself. As you say he’s totally unproven at this level.

Will be a stick to beat him with if it doesn’t work out but he is highly thought of in footballing circles (according to his mate Kilbane) and has turned down jobs (Brentford being one, obviously before they got in the Dane).

If we are only going to be splashing out 500-750k a year, we can’t really have too high aspirations about getting a higher profile managers. we would be shopping in the aisle with Bruce, McKenna, Mark Kennedy, etc. 
Think I would take Carsley over those names.



Just a point of order, we certainly will not be shopping in the Mc Kenna aisle, if we were, purchasing him would be a no brainer (my guess is he would have zero interest in us in any case). I'm of the opinion that we dont have enough to even purchase a Lee Carsley, let alone a Kieran McKenna.

Bearing that in mind, one name I havent seen mentioned at all, who might be a good option if we are genuinely skint is current Crystal Palace assistant manager Paddy McCarthy - Dublin born, Irish underage caps and a B cap, involved with various youth teams at Palace since 2016, highly regarded and has overseen a lot of Irish lads at the CP academy. Our current GK coach Dean Kiely actually works with him day to day as the current GK coach at Palace. Havent seen him mentioned at all in dispatches, but he's just turned 40, presumably has all the coaching badges, knows the inner workings of a top PL club and must surely have learned a lot working alongside Hodgson and Lewington. He could be an interesting candidate.




He would be a gamble and I don't want any more gambles.  IMO should be getting a proven manager not some fella who has no experience of management at top level football.   The last thing we want is another fella learnign on the job for another 3 years wasting qualifying campaigns and dropping our ranking into an unrecoverable position for qualifcation.

Tbh TJ, that would be my preference too, but I'm not seeing anyone come up with genuine realistic candidates that tick those boxes. Who do you have in mind? 
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Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What is so special about Carsley?  Totally unproven and while he has had success at U21 level it is no indication he will be a success at senior level.



Aidy Boothroyd had a similar record before him I think yet don't see his name being put forward (nor should it)


Really,  he never won the euros.  
Knocked out in group stage in 2019 and 2021. 

Got to the knockout stages in 2017 and lost on pens to Germany.  

Carsley wins the euros at his first go and doesn’t concede a goal at the tournament and only dropped 5 points out of 30 in qualifying.  

Similar records alright. 
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The only two coaches to me that make any sense are Carsley and BBM. I know BBM is a stretch but we have no funds and very little in the way of options anyway. BBM will be met with a hell of a lot of criticism so likely can't happen.

Most of the others don't move Irish football on and are probably not interested in football development in the country something I think we can all admire about Kenny is he does have a passion for that side which very few predecessors have had. Hell Trap supposedly didn't even know Ian Harte was Irish.

I am not saying that is the job of Irish manager per se but we need someone aligned with our underage system and who enjoys that side of it.
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Originally posted by Nialler Nialler wrote:

The only two coaches to me that make any sense are Carsley and BBM. I know BBM is a stretch but we have no funds and very little in the way of options anyway. BBM will be met with a hell of a lot of criticism so likely can't happen.

Most of the others don't move Irish football on and are probably not interested in football development in the country something I think we can all admire about Kenny is he does have a passion for that side which very few predecessors have had. Hell Trap supposedly didn't even know Ian Harte was Irish.

I am not saying that is the job of Irish manager per se but we need someone aligned with our underage system and who enjoys that side of it.

I would be quite happy with BBM. We could do a lot worse. SK has done an awful lot right, and with rhe right coach would probably have succeeded. Wouldn't want to throw everything out and go back to square one
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Boothroyd also famously failed to beat Andorra Under 21s when he was the England Under 21 manager. Was generally very poorly regarded during his time in the post. I'm not necessarily saying Carsley is definitely the answer, but he's not comparable to Boothroyd at all.
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