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Kenny's nailed on starters?

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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 9:27pm

There's a reason why Idah at 20 is on the fringes of ft football at a PL club and Ogbene at 24 is still in L1. I dont agree with your view at all. Doherty, Hendrick and Omobamidele are all in the same boat as Idah, all are lacking ft minutes. Imo we need an actual 9 vs Portugal (maybe not vs Luxembourg), our best bet is Idah imo. I could maybe understand an argument for James Collins starting there if he plays a lot and scores a few in the interim, but not Ogbene, purely from a tactical view point. Each to their own, but I'd stick with Idah and I think your "based on an OK 20 mins vs Portugal" is unfair in the extreme.

As for Hourihane, I dont know why he's being brought up here, he shouldnt be near the first team in any game where we dont envisage dominating possession and certainly not one where we are likely to spend the majority of the game without the ball. No chance he starts vs Portugal unless we are decimated with injuries.
[/QUOTE]

Idah hasn't done anything in football yet. My comparison was that at least hourihane has 100s of games under his belt and a good few assists and goals to boot. Idah has nothing just potential. 

I dont think hourihane should be included for that matter but I can see why he would, I can't see that with idah.

In the last world cup  internationals idah has 

Portugal 90mins
Azerbaijan  90mins
Serbia 80 muns 
Azerbaijan 60 mins

I watched the game he played vs Liverpool B team in the Cup for Norwich... he was poor. 

He has 5 substitute premier league appearances this year totalling 37mins 

Personally I don't think he should be in the starting 11 until he starts playing football at club level. He's not going to do that this season in the premier league.

Parrot has 64mins total in the same games listed and plays week in week out. I appreciate a a lower level but still playing, he also has 2 senior goals in the friendly vs Andorra and a motm from that game too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenshoots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

I think, assuming O'Shea remains out and everybody else reports fit and well, then the starting XI for the Portugal game practically picks itself?
Baz
Seamus
Doherty
Omabam
Duffy
Egan
Cullen
Hendrick
Idah
Robinson
Mc Grath

That starting XI looks pretty nailed on to me for the Portugal game at least, but might be subject to change vs weaker opposition, where you might gamble without the solidity of Mc Grath as one of the front 3 in the 3-4-2-1.

The main issue between now and then is game time for Doherty, Omobamidele, Hendrick and Idah.


Yes for me I'd agree as well. That's the best 11. Not sure Kenny will switch Doherty over to the left, he may go with McClean and have to choose between Coleman and Doherty.
Also, the other shout for me is Idah. He did play well away to Portugal, he's more of a central striker than the other options (Robinson/Ogbene/Connolll=y). Robinson is better floating around and McGrath has been super as the link guy between midfield and attack.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aviva8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 9:33pm
Could jack byrne, Brady, mcCarthy, browne and molumby come back into the squad if they got their club situations sorted
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:


There's a reason why Idah at 20 is on the fringes of ft football at a PL club and Ogbene at 24 is still in L1. I dont agree with your view at all. Doherty, Hendrick and Omobamidele are all in the same boat as Idah, all are lacking ft minutes. Imo we need an actual 9 vs Portugal (maybe not vs Luxembourg), our best bet is Idah imo. I could maybe understand an argument for James Collins starting there if he plays a lot and scores a few in the interim, but not Ogbene, purely from a tactical view point. Each to their own, but I'd stick with Idah and I think your "based on an OK 20 mins vs Portugal" is unfair in the extreme.

As for Hourihane, I dont know why he's being brought up here, he shouldnt be near the first team in any game where we dont envisage dominating possession and certainly not one where we are likely to spend the majority of the game without the ball. No chance he starts vs Portugal unless we are decimated with injuries.

Idah hasn't done anything in football yet. My comparison was that at least hourihane has 100s of games under his belt and a good few assists and goals to boot. Idah has nothing just potential. 

I dont think hourihane should be included for that matter but I can see why he would, I can't see that with idah.

In the last world cup  internationals idah has 

Portugal 90mins
Azerbaijan  90mins
Serbia 80 muns 
Azerbaijan 60 mins

I watched the game he played vs Liverpool B team in the Cup for Norwich... he was poor. 

He has 5 substitute premier league appearances this year totalling 37mins 

Personally I don't think he should be in the starting 11 until he starts playing football at club level. He's not going to do that this season in the premier league.

Parrot has 64mins total in the same games listed and plays week in week out. I appreciate a a lower level but still playing, he also has 2 senior goals in the friendly vs Andorra and a motm from that game too.
[/QUOTE] 

Idah lacks regular experience alright and you'd love him to have a season playing regularly for a League 1 club even like Parrott is doing. 

Was looking at Robinsons stats as a youngfella his 14/15 season he was the same age as Parrott playing in League 1 now on loan at Preston. He got 7 goals and 4 assists in 28 games for them. 3 of those goals were against the mighty Havant and Waterlooville. 

 Parrott already has 3 goals and 4 assists in 10 games this season. Idah last year got 3 goals and an assist in 16 and most of them limited appearances off the bench at Championship level at their age. There's every reason to believe they will both be at least as good if not better then Robinson is at 26 in 6/7 years time when they reach that age. Regardless of who's better now if they both achieve that I'd be delighted personally as Robinson has the potential to be a PL attacker. 


Edited by kevin100 - 13 Oct 2021 at 10:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amccarten313 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 12:33am
Bazunu; DOS/Omobamidele, Duffy, Egan; Coleman, Cullen, Hendrick, Doherty/Stevens; McGrath

and then it gets interesting. he really likes idah, so could be mcgrath idah robinson. honestly i think for portugal specifically i wouldnt mind ogbene or even knight, and then robinson playing the role he did against qatar
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 4:48am
Possible potential recency bias here but does any one else think that Omobamidele has looked more assured than O'Shea did previously? It could be as a result of the team doing better overall in the last few games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eoink21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 6:28am
Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Possible potential recency bias here but does any one else think that Omobamidele has looked more assured than O'Shea did previously? It could be as a result of the team doing better overall in the last few games.

Tricky one. As you say, recency bias and the opposition need to be taken into account. Omobamidele looked great against Qatar and Serbia. He looks a serious prospect. 

The thing for me is that I think he might have a higher ceiling than O'Shea but I don't know if he has looked more assured than O'Shea did. 

We are accumulating options in the back 3. It feels like there will come a natural point in the next few years where our 3 centre halves (assuming it is still a 3) are Omobamidele, O'Shea and Collins. I'm taking into account the age of Duffy and Egan and the potential of that trio. And it won't be for a few years either-  Duffy and Egan have plenty left in them. Similar to the goalkeepers coming at once, it feels like those 3 guys have all come at once for us. 

An interesting little thought I has there was contrasting how O'Shea, Omobamidele and Collins have eased into senior football with the challenges that our trio of young forwards have encountered (Connolly, Idah and Parrott). Plenty nuances involved in that contrast but the trajectory for the defenders seems to have gone in the right direction consistently at senior level for their clubs, to the extent that I wouldn't wish a move on any of them as it wouldn't be necessary to their development. That doesn't look the case for Connolly and Idah and Parrott has already racked up a few clubs with things finally looking to be heading in the right direction for him. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenny82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 8:08am
I love the fact that there are only 5 or 6 nailed on starters. It is great to now have some options and not be so predictable in how we will line up.

A few people have listed their preferred starting XI and I'd be happy with most, if not all. I'd imagine this is the youngest average age team we've ever had at senior level and it's credit to Kenny that he has brought through the likes of Omobamidele and Collins rather than Keogh and Kevin Long.


Edited by Lenny82 - 14 Oct 2021 at 8:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 9:15am
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:


There's a reason why Idah at 20 is on the fringes of ft football at a PL club and Ogbene at 24 is still in L1. I dont agree with your view at all. Doherty, Hendrick and Omobamidele are all in the same boat as Idah, all are lacking ft minutes. Imo we need an actual 9 vs Portugal (maybe not vs Luxembourg), our best bet is Idah imo. I could maybe understand an argument for James Collins starting there if he plays a lot and scores a few in the interim, but not Ogbene, purely from a tactical view point. Each to their own, but I'd stick with Idah and I think your "based on an OK 20 mins vs Portugal" is unfair in the extreme.

As for Hourihane, I dont know why he's being brought up here, he shouldnt be near the first team in any game where we dont envisage dominating possession and certainly not one where we are likely to spend the majority of the game without the ball. No chance he starts vs Portugal unless we are decimated with injuries.

Idah hasn't done anything in football yet. My comparison was that at least hourihane has 100s of games under his belt and a good few assists and goals to boot. Idah has nothing just potential. 

I dont think hourihane should be included for that matter but I can see why he would, I can't see that with idah.

In the last world cup  internationals idah has 

Portugal 90mins
Azerbaijan  90mins
Serbia 80 muns 
Azerbaijan 60 mins

I watched the game he played vs Liverpool B team in the Cup for Norwich... he was poor. 

He has 5 substitute premier league appearances this year totalling 37mins 

Personally I don't think he should be in the starting 11 until he starts playing football at club level. He's not going to do that this season in the premier league.

Parrot has 64mins total in the same games listed and plays week in week out. I appreciate a a lower level but still playing, he also has 2 senior goals in the friendly vs Andorra and a motm from that game too.
[/QUOTE]

Jesus, we get it, you dont like Idah. Just to provide some perspective here. Idah was widely considered Ireland's best player vs Portugal and when Parrott got his chance vs Azerbaijan at home, he barely touched the ball in the first half and was hooked on 50 odd minutes in a performance at least as bad if not worse than Horgan's first half display vs the same opposition. Kenny played a half fit Idah away to Azerbaijan as he wanted a target man on the pitch, Parrott got a few minutes, looked sharp, then fluffed his lines when confronted with a very presentable chance. I like Troy, so I'm not going to diss the lad at all, he's doing good this season after a poor season last time around. He seems to be progressing well although I don't tune in to MK Dons games regularly. If you are suggesting that Parrott should lead the line ahead of Idah vs Portugal in our next competitive international, then I'll have some of what youre smoking.

If the coaching team see the need to play a target man vs Portugal, which I think they will, then it will be Idah. There is perhaps an argument that if they think tactically they dont need that out ball that Idah provides, he could go with Robinson as a 9 (not his best position), supported by Mc Grath/Knight and Ogbene/Connolly. It's not likely vs Portugal, but possible vs Luxembourg imo. Parrott wont be starting either game barring injuries imo, he's not ready, but thankfully he looks like he's getting there.

As for the Liverpool B game as you insist on calling it, he was playing against 2 top quality CBs in Gomez and Konate. It was also Norwich's B team and they were outplayed for much of the game. He didnt have a great game, but I also watched it and Omobamidele was at least as bad if not worse than Idah. 

Omobamidele, Doherty, Connolly and Hendrick are also all struggling for minutes at their respective clubs, so it's not unique to Idah either. Idah is very close to the first team at Norwich, a team that isnt scoring goals and he is getting regular minutes off the bench. I wouldnt rule out his breaking in to the team at some point and any injury to either Pukki or Sargent will probably see him starting also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 9:19am
Originally posted by greenshoots greenshoots wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

I think, assuming O'Shea remains out and everybody else reports fit and well, then the starting XI for the Portugal game practically picks itself?
Baz
Seamus
Doherty
Omabam
Duffy
Egan
Cullen
Hendrick
Idah
Robinson
Mc Grath

That starting XI looks pretty nailed on to me for the Portugal game at least, but might be subject to change vs weaker opposition, where you might gamble without the solidity of Mc Grath as one of the front 3 in the 3-4-2-1.

The main issue between now and then is game time for Doherty, Omobamidele, Hendrick and Idah.


Yes for me I'd agree as well. That's the best 11. Not sure Kenny will switch Doherty over to the left, he may go with McClean and have to choose between Coleman and Doherty.
Also, the other shout for me is Idah. He did play well away to Portugal, he's more of a central striker than the other options (Robinson/Ogbene/Connolll=y). Robinson is better floating around and McGrath has been super as the link guy between midfield and attack.


He likes Mc Clean and he played will for him vs Azerbaijan, but I dont see him starting vs Portugal (Luxembourg is more likely imo). Even if one of Doherty or Coleman are out, I could see Stevens getting the Portugal game, purely because he is a defender by trade.

Idah's selction will depend on how the coaching staff want to set up tactically, but if they want a target man on the pitch, I think it will be him, supported by Robinson in a free role with Mc Grath (or maybe Knight) as the link man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 9:24am
Originally posted by Eoink21 Eoink21 wrote:

Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Possible potential recency bias here but does any one else think that Omobamidele has looked more assured than O'Shea did previously? It could be as a result of the team doing better overall in the last few games.

Tricky one. As you say, recency bias and the opposition need to be taken into account. Omobamidele looked great against Qatar and Serbia. He looks a serious prospect. 

The thing for me is that I think he might have a higher ceiling than O'Shea but I don't know if he has looked more assured than O'Shea did. 

We are accumulating options in the back 3. It feels like there will come a natural point in the next few years where our 3 centre halves (assuming it is still a 3) are Omobamidele, O'Shea and Collins. I'm taking into account the age of Duffy and Egan and the potential of that trio. And it won't be for a few years either-  Duffy and Egan have plenty left in them. Similar to the goalkeepers coming at once, it feels like those 3 guys have all come at once for us. 

An interesting little thought I has there was contrasting how O'Shea, Omobamidele and Collins have eased into senior football with the challenges that our trio of young forwards have encountered (Connolly, Idah and Parrott). Plenty nuances involved in that contrast but the trajectory for the defenders seems to have gone in the right direction consistently at senior level for their clubs, to the extent that I wouldn't wish a move on any of them as it wouldn't be necessary to their development. That doesn't look the case for Connolly and Idah and Parrott has already racked up a few clubs with things finally looking to be heading in the right direction for him. 

Well everybody keeps banging on about Idah not getting ft football, surely Omabamidele is in the same boat? What happens if Nathan Collins starts the next 4 for Burnley and Andrew doesnt get a sniff?

O'Shea, who is older than the others at 22 established himself in the WBA team a couple of seasons ago and endured a longish spell coming off the bench before doing so. Omobamidele and N. Collins are in pretty much the same position as he was and as Connolly and Idah are and this is borne out by their respective senior minutes played this season. All 4 are on the fringes of the first team, but they all look to be relying on an injury to get that big first team chance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 10:59am
Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Possible potential recency bias here but does any one else think that Omobamidele has looked more assured than O'Shea did previously? It could be as a result of the team doing better overall in the last few games.

I think oshea will be our best player, I think omobamidele and collins will be premier league regulars along with oshea sooner rather than later but oshea will be our stand out player.

Hes technically excellent and reads the game like mcgrath. All in all I think the trio will be a mouthwatering future defensive line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B6 6HE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Possible potential recency bias here but does any one else think that Omobamidele has looked more assured than O'Shea did previously? It could be as a result of the team doing better overall in the last few games.

I think oshea will be our best player, I think omobamidele and collins will be premier league regulars along with oshea sooner rather than later but oshea will be our stand out player.

Hes technically excellent and reads the game like mcgrath. All in all I think the trio will be a mouthwatering future defensive line.

Could O'SHEA do the McGrath holding midfield role?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 11:19am
Originally posted by B6 6HE B6 6HE wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Possible potential recency bias here but does any one else think that Omobamidele has looked more assured than O'Shea did previously? It could be as a result of the team doing better overall in the last few games.

I think oshea will be our best player, I think omobamidele and collins will be premier league regulars along with oshea sooner rather than later but oshea will be our stand out player.

Hes technically excellent and reads the game like mcgrath. All in all I think the trio will be a mouthwatering future defensive line.

Could O'SHEA do the McGrath holding midfield role?

OK to be clear, there's only ever going to be one paul mcgrath, there won't be another. But I think oshea will be a class player.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 11:49am
I'm not convinced by the whole trying to stick a centre back in midfield thing. Everyone points to McGrath but he really was a one off, also he was playing in a system at the time where we pretty much bypassed midfield anyway, so he was almost like an extra centre back who had a bit more licence to go further forward.

I think suggesting sticking Omobamidele or O'Shea in midfield is an underestimation of what it takes to be an international midfielder to be honest. Cullen is great, Hendrick is doing better and we have a few good possibilities coming through, at least one of them should make the grade, I think we just need to be patient on that one for now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 11:51am
Originally posted by aviva8 aviva8 wrote:

Could jack byrne, Brady, mcCarthy, browne and molumby come back into the squad if they got their club situations sorted

Whatever about the others, I think we've moved on from Byrne now. Where would you even play him in the 3-4-2-1? Presumably in the McGrath/Knight role but I don't think his all round game is as good as theirs in terms of what that position requires when we don't have the ball.

I wouldn't be surprised if we never see him in an Ireland shirt again being honest. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

I'm not convinced by the whole trying to stick a centre back in midfield thing. Everyone points to McGrath but he really was a one off, also he was playing in a system at the time where we pretty much bypassed midfield anyway, so he was almost like an extra centre back who had a bit more licence to go further forward.

I think suggesting sticking Omobamidele or O'Shea in midfield is an underestimation of what it takes to be an international midfielder to be honest. Cullen is great, Hendrick is doing better and we have a few good possibilities coming through, at least one of them should make the grade, I think we just need to be patient on that one for now.

Agreed, suggestions that young centre backs making their way in the game can magically be transformed in to ball playing CDMs are fanciful in the extreme.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by aviva8 aviva8 wrote:

Could jack byrne, Brady, mcCarthy, browne and molumby come back into the squad if they got their club situations sorted

Whatever about the others, I think we've moved on from Byrne now. Where would you even play him in the 3-4-2-1? Presumably in the McGrath/Knight role but I don't think his all round game is as good as theirs in terms of what that position requires when we don't have the ball.

I wouldn't be surprised if we never see him in an Ireland shirt again being honest. 

Also agreed, with the caveat that he is only 25 and clearly has talent, whatever about application and durability. Wes wasnt pulling up trees at 25. The next move is very important for the lad as far as his international career is concerned. While a move to the MLS might be appealing to him, I'm not sure it would benefit his international career. Wouldnt write him off entirely, but it's a long shot at this point.
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