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John Hume

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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2020 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Thats entirely debatable, as libertarianism has actually not actually had a real time example, and the Trump dystopian is not the natural conclusion of libertarianism, simply because it has none of the hallmarks of what libertarianism stands for. I have used examples such as the ruling by EO, the massive state intervention which is necessary for "the wall", the diplomatic ties to highly regulated and statist Governments. Libertarians who side with the likes of Russia etc have absolutely lost their way, at a philosophical level. Self professed libertarians who voted for Trump and continue to support him, never were libertarians to begin with. 

We know that communism, and some related ideologies were authoritarian, as we had strong real time examples, extremely close to home. Assumed Libertarian states, were usually emaciated, failed states, who never re-constituted after revolution and popular uprising.

Don't get me wrong, libertarianism is best suited to "on paper", and debates amongst people who think its edgy and radical, but it goes no further than that. Libertarianism cannot work, as, to your point, it misunderstands human nature, and gives it credit it doesn't deserve. But that doesn't mean that self professed libertarians ever practiced it, and that it wasn't just an easy fig leaf, which fell off when their perverse world view became a reality with Brexit, Trump etc.

I'm glad we agree that libertarianism is best left on paper, or a thought lab

However the problem is that its ideology exists very much on publicly viewed/viewable paper through horrible newspaper columnists, the copious "studies" of think tanks, and the printed words of horrible politicians

Its ideology is constantly pushed on television, you will rarely if ever see an edition of Question Time without a think tank or associated media voice

It has produced a worldwide blizzard of inescapable bullsh*t and has created a language of absolute dishonesty through which public debate is conducted, without most people even realising it

The language of the libertarian cult has become the mother tongue of the media

Libertarianism's biggest trick is that it has cultivated a fake "anti-elite", "outsider", "pro-free speech" image when it is pro-corporate oligarchy and anti-free speech

There are many communists who genuinely believe in the ideology but do not believe in tyranny

Yet the theory could never work in practice

Yet we don't say the government of the Soviet Union was not communist

I dare say there are some libertarians who genuinely believe in the theory that government cut to the bone will produce a utopia for everybody - mostly dumb students

My belief is that most very much don't and use the cloak of "libertarianism" (even the name projects a "cool", "outsider" image) to push for an anarcho-capitalist dystopia where the rich make hay and everybody else is a serf - quite ironic really as their bible is Hayek's "The Road To Serfdom"

Yet their influence is widely felt, and it is felt in the ever-increasing corporate tyranny encompassing the world

In the same way that we do not say Stalin was not a communist, we cannot say James Buchanan, Charles Koch and Claire Fox are not libertarians

Claire Fox believes in the legalisation of child pornography, and you can't get more libertarian than that

Anyway, I don't see what this has to do with John Hume, who was a wonderful man, unlike his namesake Mick Hume, who is a member of the horrible Spiked Online cult





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Het-field View Drop Down
Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2020 at 6:24pm
You're absolutely right about John Hume, and this thread has gone off point. But, you've actually shown in that post that you actually don't get libertarianism, and who is, or what is libertarianism. So, I'll leave it there.


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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2020 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

You're absolutely right about John Hume, and this thread has gone off point. But, you've actually shown in that post that you actually don't get libertarianism, and who is, or what is libertarianism. So, I'll leave it there.


I get it just fine, thanks

It's a fraudulent cult which is far more dangerous than Jim Jones or David Koresh ever were


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Het-field View Drop Down
Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2020 at 6:31pm
You don't get it. Your examples and arguments are really wide of the mark.

But as you said, we've taken this thread off topic. I'm happy to follow your request on that one.
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Sham157 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2020 at 6:38pm
As you have both alluded to lads, enough of this on this thread pleaseThumbs Up
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