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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 12:36pm
1. It's called "the broad black brimmer", not "the broad black brimmer of the IRA".

2. If it's his favourite song it's his favourite song, why should he have to hide that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by Paulie Paulie wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

He's dead right but in fairness he courts a lot of it
 

If it was a black lad, would you say that?
Difference is that Sterling doesn't court abuse simply by the colour of his skin. If McClean was abused simply for being Irish you could consider it racism. What McClean does though is go out of his way to publicly induce offence through his words and actions which is entirely different from racial discrimination but he lacks the intellectual sophistication to comprehend this. 
I think he enjoys the attention and the adulation and credibility points it scores him back in Derry and in Republican Ireland. Maybe he has realised that his popularity with the Irish public and even how he is rated as a footballer increases proportionately to how much he runs his mouth off about his political views and sees this as a useful way to compensate for the decline of his performances on the pitch. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 2:14pm
Speaking to Sterling’s experience is presumptive and dismissive and ignorant. The point could be made in so many ways, yet I think he has actually managed to make it in the worst way possible. He can’t possibly fully know what Stirling has experienced and vice versa. Things like this are deeply personal.

Edited by Het-field - 02 Jun 2019 at 2:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeclanDaly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Speaking to Sterling’s experience is presumptive and dismissive and ignorant. The point could be made in so many ways, yet I think he has actually managed to make it in the worst way possible. He can’t possibly fully know what Stirling has experienced and vice versa. Things like this are deeply personal.

Agreed. He’s got a valid issue here with the FA, but he comes off as being dismissive of Sterling’s struggles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

1. It's called "the broad black brimmer", not "the broad black brimmer of the IRA".

2. If it's his favourite song it's his favourite song, why should he have to hide that.


Why should he have to publicise it more like.  Irishman goes to UK playing in front of vile vermin most weeks is surprised when his pro IRA views which he made public himself are greeted with abuse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Originally posted by Paulie Paulie wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

He's dead right but in fairness he courts a lot of it
 

If it was a black lad, would you say that?
Difference is that Sterling doesn't court abuse simply by the colour of his skin. If McClean was abused simply for being Irish you could consider it racism. What McClean does though is go out of his way to publicly induce offence through his words and actions which is entirely different from racial discrimination but he lacks the intellectual sophistication to comprehend this. 
I think he enjoys the attention and the adulation and credibility points it scores him back in Derry and in Republican Ireland. Maybe he has realised that his popularity with the Irish public and even how he is rated as a footballer increases proportionately to how much he runs his mouth off about his political views and sees this as a useful way to compensate for the decline of his performances on the pitch. 
That's not fully true though, or at least it wasn't originally. There's no doubt that McClean should give up social media, but this all  stems from him not wearing a poppy. The hysterical reaction to this by the media and by Sunderland AFC themselves is what led to the abuse.
The reaction, in Ireland and England, has probably emboldened his view, but I would be fairly certain that if the media(and Sunderland) had ignored his poppy stance, like they did with Matic, he would be getting far less abuse.

That is why there is some common ground between him and Sterling and makes his comments regarding Sterling even more churlish. It feels like they are fighting a similar battle against the same people, yet McClean comes across as more bitter at Sterling for having some success than the people who refuse to validate or accept his arguments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

1. It's called "the broad black brimmer", not "the broad black brimmer of the IRA".

2. If it's his favourite song it's his favourite song, why should he have to hide that.


Why should he have to publicise it more like.  Irishman goes to UK playing in front of vile vermin most weeks is surprised when his pro IRA views which he made public himself are greeted with abuse.


What pro IRA views?

It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

1. It's called "the broad black brimmer", not "the broad black brimmer of the IRA".

2. If it's his favourite song it's his favourite song, why should he have to hide that.


Why should he have to publicise it more like.  Irishman goes to UK playing in front of vile vermin most weeks is surprised when his pro IRA views which he made public himself are greeted with abuse.


What pro IRA views?



Rebel songs are pro IRA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

1. It's called "the broad black brimmer", not "the broad black brimmer of the IRA".

2. If it's his favourite song it's his favourite song, why should he have to hide that.


Why should he have to publicise it more like.  Irishman goes to UK playing in front of vile vermin most weeks is surprised when his pro IRA views which he made public himself are greeted with abuse.


What pro IRA views?



Rebel songs are pro IRA.


That's not what you said though.

The Ireland team play the Wolfe Tones on the team bus, are all these players pro IRA too?

John Delaney sang Joe McDonnell - is he an IRA supporter do you think.


Edited by horsebox - 02 Jun 2019 at 4:30pm
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twoinarow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

1. It's called "the broad black brimmer", not "the broad black brimmer of the IRA".

2. If it's his favourite song it's his favourite song, why should he have to hide that.


Why should he have to publicise it more like.  Irishman goes to UK playing in front of vile vermin most weeks is surprised when his pro IRA views which he made public himself are greeted with abuse.


What pro IRA views?



Rebel songs are pro IRA.

So anyone who likes the Wolfe Tones is Pro IRA? 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

1. It's called "the broad black brimmer", not "the broad black brimmer of the IRA".

2. If it's his favourite song it's his favourite song, why should he have to hide that.


Why should he have to publicise it more like.  Irishman goes to UK playing in front of vile vermin most weeks is surprised when his pro IRA views which he made public himself are greeted with abuse.


What pro IRA views?



Rebel songs are pro IRA.


That's not what you said though.

The Ireland team play the Wolfe Tones on the team bus, are all these players pro IRA too?

John Delaney sang Joe McDonnell - is he an IRA supporter do you think.

He's not gone away, you know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by Twoinarow Twoinarow wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

1. It's called "the broad black brimmer", not "the broad black brimmer of the IRA".

2. If it's his favourite song it's his favourite song, why should he have to hide that.


Why should he have to publicise it more like.  Irishman goes to UK playing in front of vile vermin most weeks is surprised when his pro IRA views which he made public himself are greeted with abuse.


What pro IRA views?



Rebel songs are pro IRA.

So anyone who likes the Wolfe Tones is Pro IRA? 




So anyone who likes the KKK is a racist now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 5:48pm
The Matic case is interesting. I think Matic took control of the story and managed it in such a way that he knew it would be difficult to get the media, and the fans riled up about it.

Also, the conflicts relevant to McClean and Matic’s case were very different on a lot of levels and strike at public consciousness in different ways. 


Edited by Het-field - 02 Jun 2019 at 5:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 6:03pm
Sunderland hung him out to dry. It was handled much better when he was at Wigan, but the damage was done by then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 8:34am
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

The Matic case is interesting. I think Matic took control of the story and managed it in such a way that he knew it would be difficult to get the media, and the fans riled up about it.

Also, the conflicts relevant to McClean and Matic’s case were very different on a lot of levels and strike at public consciousness in different ways. 


The big differencee is the IRA went to England with bombs and had units over there causing mayhem especially in the 70's although the 80's and 90's were bad enough as well. The UK public know all about the IRA and many of the older generation have 1st hand knowledge of attacks on English cities. The Serbian conflict happened so far away and there were no attacks on English cities by any insurgents.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 11:02am
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

The Matic case is interesting. I think Matic took control of the story and managed it in such a way that he knew it would be difficult to get the media, and the fans riled up about it.

Also, the conflicts relevant to McClean and Matic’s case were very different on a lot of levels and strike at public consciousness in different ways. 


The big differencee is the IRA went to England with bombs and had units over there causing mayhem especially in the 70's although the 80's and 90's were bad enough as well. The UK public know all about the IRA and many of the older generation have 1st hand knowledge of attacks on English cities. The Serbian conflict happened so far away and there were no attacks on English cities by any insurgents.
My own experience is that a lot of people know little about it. That is, they know of the IRA and hate them, but many haven’t a notion why they were bombing England. I was shocked by how ignorant many were of it.
Anyway, that’s an aside! There is some truth in that, but it was certainly handled differently by the media. Given that the poppy has come to mean patriotism and not remembrance, to the point where British newsreaders receive death threats for not wearing one from about now, the fact that Matic’s decision went unheralded was about more than an ignorance of the Yugoslav war. 
As Brexit has shown us, there is still a lot of ignorance here for their neighbours. In my experience, there is little to no hatred of the Irish, but often very little knowledge, even with the cabinet!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

The Matic case is interesting. I think Matic took control of the story and managed it in such a way that he knew it would be difficult to get the media, and the fans riled up about it.

Also, the conflicts relevant to McClean and Matic’s case were very different on a lot of levels and strike at public consciousness in different ways. 


The big differencee is the IRA went to England with bombs and had units over there causing mayhem especially in the 70's although the 80's and 90's were bad enough as well. The UK public know all about the IRA and many of the older generation have 1st hand knowledge of attacks on English cities. The Serbian conflict happened so far away and there were no attacks on English cities by any insurgents.
My own experience is that a lot of people know little about it. That is, they know of the IRA and hate them, but many haven’t a notion why they were bombing England. I was shocked by how ignorant many were of it.
Anyway, that’s an aside! There is some truth in that, but it was certainly handled differently by the media. Given that the poppy has come to mean patriotism and not remembrance, to the point where British newsreaders receive death threats for not wearing one from about now, the fact that Matic’s decision went unheralded was about more than an ignorance of the Yugoslav war. 
As Brexit has shown us, there is still a lot of ignorance here for their neighbours. In my experience, there is little to no hatred of the Irish, but often very little knowledge, even with the cabinet!
 
 
Fair point. Anyways can see McClean starting tomorrow night and thinking he gets a bit of an unfair time. Top scorer in the squad and the last campaign and had a decent game against Georgia last time. A fully fit firing Brady should be ahead of him but at the moment McClean deserves to be starting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

The Matic case is interesting. I think Matic took control of the story and managed it in such a way that he knew it would be difficult to get the media, and the fans riled up about it.

Also, the conflicts relevant to McClean and Matic’s case were very different on a lot of levels and strike at public consciousness in different ways. 


The big differencee is the IRA went to England with bombs and had units over there causing mayhem especially in the 70's although the 80's and 90's were bad enough as well. The UK public know all about the IRA and many of the older generation have 1st hand knowledge of attacks on English cities. The Serbian conflict happened so far away and there were no attacks on English cities by any insurgents.
My own experience is that a lot of people know little about it. That is, they know of the IRA and hate them, but many haven’t a notion why they were bombing England. I was shocked by how ignorant many were of it.
Anyway, that’s an aside! There is some truth in that, but it was certainly handled differently by the media. Given that the poppy has come to mean patriotism and not remembrance, to the point where British newsreaders receive death threats for not wearing one from about now, the fact that Matic’s decision went unheralded was about more than an ignorance of the Yugoslav war. 
As Brexit has shown us, there is still a lot of ignorance here for their neighbours. In my experience, there is little to no hatred of the Irish, but often very little knowledge, even with the cabinet!
 
 
Fair point. Anyways can see McClean starting tomorrow night and thinking he gets a bit of an unfair time. Top scorer in the squad and the last campaign and had a decent game against Georgia last time. A fully fit firing Brady should be ahead of him but at the moment McClean deserves to be starting.


What's on tomorrow night?
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