Irish property market |
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FrankosHereNow
Roy Keane I like Klopp Joined: 02 Jun 2011 Location: El Sadar Status: Offline Points: 12159 |
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YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
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Cabra Hoop
Roy Keane Joined: 06 Feb 2012 Location: Royal County Status: Offline Points: 10829 |
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The places listed above were built by people directly employed by Dublin Corporation. There was this peculiar old notion of building homes for people to live in and charging them an affordable rent. Nowadays there are so many powerful interest groups who get a cut out of housing developments - Landowners, Architects, Surveyors, Construction Companies, Solicitors, Law Agents, Tradesmen, Mortgage Brokers, Banks, Building Societies, Investment Companies etc. etc. |
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" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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Saint Tom
Jack Charlton Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9981 |
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The calculation for all is the same. His marginal rate of income tax on rent less the interest and allowable costs (insurance, maintenance etc). Obviously the higher the rent the higher the tax. |
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My destination inchicore my next stop being kilmainham
Where patriots and super saints are the topics of conversation |
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greenlad
Liam Brady Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1694 |
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Only the interest though, my interest is only 1% but I've still got repayments the guts of a grand therefore if I'm to rent out my gaf I'm paying 48% tax so I have to charge at least 1500 and I'm not making a profit on the rental income,I'm just covering my mortgage repayments for that.
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greenlad
Liam Brady Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1694 |
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.
Edited by greenlad - 17 Aug 2018 at 4:02pm |
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greenlad
Liam Brady Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1694 |
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It's called business pawdy |
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kimbap
Liam Brady Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 2605 |
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ffs....you'd want to grow up
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Padraig
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 16 Nov 2011 Status: Offline Points: 396 |
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Expand on your argument, there
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Padraig
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 16 Nov 2011 Status: Offline Points: 396 |
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Thousands of homeless people, but hey, that's business.
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Lenny82
Liam Brady Joined: 20 Aug 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 2914 |
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Most landlord's are decent people who have bought as an investment for their retirement or as some security for their kids.
This 'landlord's are scum' bullsh*t drives me mad.
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flipper
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 04 May 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 207 |
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Government over regulation and a f**king parody of a planning process is the reason for the housing crisis. And the government has become so large and splintered into so many departments that nobody can do anything about it.
It’s a simple supply and demand situation. Rent controls, nimbyism in conjunction with parish pump politics, ludicrous height restrictions and only selling to natives is only going to reduce supply. All this anti landlord nonsense is hilarious. Edited by flipper - 18 Aug 2018 at 3:56pm |
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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Well, let's make a few assumptions. The first is that the landlord is already a higher rate tax payer and higher rate USC payer - i.e. he earns over 70k a year from his work. Very generous, but it makes the maths below a little easier. The second is that the landlord deducts around 10% of the rent on maintenance and capital allowances per annum (which, I think, is about normal). Let's say that figure includes all deductions, like insurance, RTB registration, letting fees, etc etc, and whatever capital deductions he has. That's about fair. There's a reason by to let mortgages only allow you to use 10/12ths of the rent in your income calculations, because they assume houses are empty one month a year and that one month's rent per year is necessary for ongoing maintenance etc. It is tricky for tax, in that some things can only be written off over 8 years, like buying new furniture and the like, but let's allow 10% off rental income for practicality. So, let's say that the place is rented for €1,000pm. That's €12,000 per annum. Now, in terms of tax, he's entitled to deduct 80% of the interest from the mortgage. So he pays €2,400 per annum interest. That means he can deduct €1,920 from his gross income. Say he does have €1,200 on allowable deductions, including wear and tear allowances, that's totally deductible. That gives a net income for tax purposes of €8,880. Now, you have to pay income tax and USC on that. Tax is 40%, USC is 8%. That's €4,262.40. So from his €12,000 income, he has paid out €12,000 on mortgage, €1,200 on maintenance and €4,262.40 tax and USC. That leaves him down €5,462.40 in cash flow, but having paid €10,000 capital off his mortgage, so he is still up overall. The second example was €1,200pm. That's €14,400 per annum. He can still deduct €1,920 for interest, and let's say now €1,440 in maintenance etc. That's a net income for tax purposes of €11,040. He thus pays €5,299.20 tax and USC (48%). So on his €14,400 income, he has paid out €12,000 on mortgage, €1,440 on maintenance and €5,299.20 on tax and USC. That leaves him down €4,339.20 in cash flow, but again having paid €10,000 capital off his mortgage, so again still up overall. The third example was €2,000pm. That's €24,000 per annum. Again assuming €1,920 deductible for interest and 10% (€2,400) maintenance etc, he has a net income of €19,680. He thus pays €9,446.40 in income tax and USC. So on his €24,000 income, he has paid out €12,000 on the mortgage, €2,400 on maintenance and €9,446.40 on tax and USC. That leaves him up €153.60 on a cash flow basis, again also having paid €10,000 capital off his mortgage. In all instances, he is making a healthy profit. Most landlords are - if you aren't, you're a f**king idiot. The major issue for many landlords is that they don't have a positive cash flow, but that's only because they are paying off the capital of their mortgage. Landlords saying they are getting out of the market because they are losing money probably mean they are losing cash, but neglecting to mention the fact that they are paying off capital on their mortgage the whole time. The other factor is that the tax deduction for mortgage interest will decrease each year, as the proportion of the payments that are interest obviously decreases each year. In your first year of a 25 year mortgage, your payment will be mostly interest, but in the last year, it will be over 96% capital and only 4% interest.
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Lenny82
Liam Brady Joined: 20 Aug 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 2914 |
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Rent has clearly gone mental in Dublin but there seems to be a lot of people who think they should be entitled to live within walking distance of the city.
If you use London as a comparative, someone commuting from Luton would have the same distance to travel as someone working in Dublin commuting from Drogheda. There are plenty of places to rent in Drogheda and Dundalk for a reasonable price and you wouldn't have to share your room with 8 Brazilian men to afford it. (Replaced Croydon with Luton and Dundalk with Drogheda after getting pulled up on poor geography!)
Edited by Lenny82 - 19 Aug 2018 at 9:46am |
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39792 |
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Dublin to Dundalk is around 72km
London to Croydon is 14km
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
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Saint Tom
Jack Charlton Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9981 |
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Where to start?
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My destination inchicore my next stop being kilmainham
Where patriots and super saints are the topics of conversation |
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Lenny82
Liam Brady Joined: 20 Aug 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 2914 |
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My bad. I was way off. Say somewhere like Luton which would be similar distance to Drogheda. I think!
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10551 |
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A mature discussion about the housing market would help. To me, that would be the starting point. Flipper has hit on a number of points, which includes building up. For some reason, as a nation we have been weirdly averse to that, even thought what would produce significantly greater housing stock around the IFSC. The government could also kick in with a sensible and sustainable social housing plan, and could use a number of other European Countries as a blueprint. There would also need to be incentive schemes on new builds like they have had in the UK, which would encourage the purchase of homes, for first time buyers, through encouraging savings with the view to home ownership.
It will be up to political will. Accepting the need for social housing, dropping a belt and braces objection to “builders and bankers”, and appreciating the need for Ireland to move with modern thinking will all help. At the moment, all we seem to have is a ham fisted view of what social housing will entail, and a belief in rent control, which would exacerbate the crisis
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Lenny82
Liam Brady Joined: 20 Aug 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 2914 |
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Spot on.
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