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9fingers View Drop Down
Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2021 at 8:49am
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

The amount of effort that the big 2 parties are putting into making it a story is really showing that they're beginning to fear SF. 

Non-story for me too

Don't get you on this one, didn't they both admit to it too? Not sure this adds up. 
Yeah sure the bigger story this morning is FG promising the pollsters €50 for the day & not paying them LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2021 at 8:51am
Simply put people won't share the same information with canvassers as they will pollsters. The difference here is leveraging people's faith by posing as pollsters rather than being open about the reasons for it. The fact that there is camouflaging going on suggests the parties understood this.

In reality, its not about any one party (although the Abu debacle also is relevant in the wider discussion about parties collecting/utilising data), as they all wanted to bury their own transgressions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2021 at 9:11am
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Simply put people won't share the same information with canvassers as they will pollsters. The difference here is leveraging people's faith by posing as pollsters rather than being open about the reasons for it. The fact that there is camouflaging going on suggests the parties understood this.

In reality, its not about any one party (although the Abu debacle also is relevant in the wider discussion about parties collecting/utilising data), as they all wanted to bury their own transgressions.

100% agree, but as long as the responses are anonymous I just don't see what the big deal is. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2021 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

The amount of effort that the big 2 parties are putting into making it a story is really showing that they're beginning to fear SF. 

Non-story for me too

It further highlights the lack of cohesion within those parties when you've differing reactions coming from members of the same party. It should be a non-story but they've made a meal out of it as the attempted point-scoring has backfired.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2021 at 11:52am
Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Simply put people won't share the same information with canvassers as they will pollsters. The difference here is leveraging people's faith by posing as pollsters rather than being open about the reasons for it. The fact that there is camouflaging going on suggests the parties understood this.

In reality, its not about any one party (although the Abu debacle also is relevant in the wider discussion about parties collecting/utilising data), as they all wanted to bury their own transgressions.

100% agree, but as long as the responses are anonymous I just don't see what the big deal is. 

But they aren't anonymous. They're cataloguing this stuff. Fake IDs to trick people into giving info? I think it's f**king scandalous lads to be honest 
They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2021 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

I think it's f**king scandalous lads to be honest 

The sad thing is, this will end up being buried simply because its an old Irish political culture raising its head again. Most parties being at it offsets each others moral culpability, and attempt to dissect it will be met with finger wagging whataboutery. As I said, parties would be upfront about their affiliations, and poll with transparency if they knew it would obtain the information. They are aware that it won't, so have resorted to incredibly duplicitous means to get the information.

Data, including political opinions is a different beast to what it was years ago. Moth eaten copy books resting in USA Assortment tins in homes, containing ticks and crosses as to what side of the FF/FG divide a house on a street was is very different to modern digitised systems, not least because at a broad level this data can produce clear political viewpoints, can be bought and sold, and can be used nefariously. The least, anybody can do, when obtaining such data is to be totally upfront about who they represent, and what the information will be used for.

At the highest level, you only need to look at the Cambridge Analytica tale to see what can happen. Quite frankly, I am amazed that a country with such an engaged population, that have been attuned to spotting scandal over the past two decades  cant see how serious this one is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2021 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

The amount of effort that the big 2 parties are putting into making it a story is really showing that they're beginning to fear SF. 

Non-story for me too

Don't get you on this one, didn't they both admit to it too? Not sure this adds up. 
Yeah sure the bigger story this morning is FG promising the pollsters €50 for the day & not paying them LOL
Initially TDs from FF in particular came out blasting SF then FF admitted they did the same and said TDs disappeared. 
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2021 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by Sham157 Sham157 wrote:

Initially TDs from FF in particular came out blasting SF then FF admitted they did the same and said TDs disappeared. 

The willing idiots. And this is a major problem, and it goes back to my view that a scandal is often only a scandal (within the four walls of the partisan political realm) if it hurts my opponent. Otherwise its open season. Here it is an issue that almost all parties have at least some culpability of, and they are all walking away and putting up their hands to minimise the damage caused.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colemanY2K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 11:49am
looks like bacik has this one in the bag. a right kick in the goolies for fg.

Edited by colemanY2K - 09 Jul 2021 at 11:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 12:52pm
Maybe a bit early to call it but Bacik seems to be clocking up a lot of first preferences. She is a very good candidate and her election would give Labour a much needed boost. Serious slap in the gob for FG if Geoghegan fails to make it, they would have expected to have this one in the bag.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 1:28pm
It has to be her time now. I think she lost the last four elections in a row.

I'm amazed at FG's vote. Yer man's accent alone should have lost them the election. These people have nothing in common with us.


Edited by Jackal - 09 Jul 2021 at 1:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamo1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 1:31pm
Dolores Cahill trying to get into the chamber without a mask LOL. I actually had to google her to see who she was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by Jackal Jackal wrote:

It has to be her time now. I think she lost the last four elections in a row.

I'm amazed at FG's vote. Yer man's accent alone should have lost them the election. These people have nothing in common with us.
FF back benchers might be having a look at their CVs if this result is a portent to the next election....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankosHereNow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Jackal Jackal wrote:

It has to be her time now. I think she lost the last four elections in a row.

I'm amazed at FG's vote. Yer man's accent alone should have lost them the election. These people have nothing in common with us.
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 2:03pm
Bad day out for everybody apart from Labour and Bacik. This is a serious victory for both, especially after the past decade when Labour couldn't win a raffle, let along an election. It also allows them pass out the disappointing Social Democrats in terms of seat numbers. There is life in them yet.

FG will now have a serious amount of discussion to do. This is a very poor day out for them, and the reasons behind this will need to be picked apart, and that includes the campaign itself which smacked of desperation. The Shinners never even came close, and look like finishing a distant third, which is a reminder that they are a long way from turning some establishment seats, which ensures they won't hold exclusive power for a long time. As for FF, well, this heaps pressure on MM who didn't need to add this to the growing list of problems, in a constituency when Eoin Ryan was a regular poll topper.

The rest of the political 'Lucky Bag' that was in the race. Well, they got what they deserved, which is irrelevance.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by jamo1 jamo1 wrote:

Dolores Cahill trying to get into the chamber without a mask LOL. I actually had to google her to see who she was.
Cahill, the midget nazi & the Renua candidate combined amassed a massive 1.8% of the vote ClapClap
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Bad day out for everybody apart from Labour and Bacik. This is a serious victory for both, especially after the past decade when Labour couldn't win a raffle, let along an election. It also allows them pass out the disappointing Social Democrats in terms of seat numbers. There is life in them yet.

FG will now have a serious amount of discussion to do. This is a very poor day out for them, and the reasons behind this will need to be picked apart, and that includes the campaign itself which smacked of desperation. The Shinners never even came close, and look like finishing a distant third, which is a reminder that they are a long way from turning some establishment seats, which ensures they won't hold exclusive power for a long time. As for FF, well, this heaps pressure on MM who didn't need to add this to the growing list of problems, in a constituency when Eoin Ryan was a regular poll topper.

The rest of the political 'Lucky Bag' that was in the race. Well, they got what they deserved, which is irrelevance.


Bacik wins because of FF & FG making a bollox of their choices firstly & their campaign secondly. 
It’s not such a big victory for Labour in this context, it’s definitely not* labour swing IMO 

*edit. 


Edited by 9fingers - 09 Jul 2021 at 2:32pm
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Bacik wins because of FF & FG making a bollox of their choices firstly & their campaign secondly. 
It’s not such a big victory for Labour in this context, it’s definitely labour swing IMO 

Its a comprehensive win though. I also think there is an argument about whether FG were ever going to win the seat, considering the focus of the election, and the nature of the candidates. Labour have been losing seats and votes hand over fist for a long time, and it has taken in two local elections and two generals. Winning a by-election, with the number of votes received is a big achievement, in my book, considering what has unfolded over the past decade.
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