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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

I like Saoirse but she's too impetuous for her own good, I agree with nearly all of what she says but you can't afford to be too impetuous in electoral politics because it's a soul destroying grind where positive change comes slowly, I hope she's able to dig out a niche for herself as an activist but it's hard to see her ever cutting it in electoral politics, especially stuck up there in the arsehole of Mayo where they prefer their TDs to clutch rosary beads

Ten years ago Killian Forde was the future of Sinn Fein, then he left for Labour, now he's gone from politics altogether, if you get too impetuous you end up defeating yourself

Then on the other hand Stephen Donnelly got elected on an explicitly anti-FF platform and then waltzed into FF

There's different rules for them lot though







Good to see that you recognise there is diversity of opinion within Mayo and you are not saying an entire group of people hold the same view! You seem to have a lot of time for her, I'd suggest she wouldn't be too impressed with your description of Achill as the "arsehole of Mayo". What's wrong with Achill?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

I like Saoirse but she's too impetuous for her own good, I agree with nearly all of what she says but you can't afford to be too impetuous in electoral politics because it's a soul destroying grind where positive change comes slowly, I hope she's able to dig out a niche for herself as an activist but it's hard to see her ever cutting it in electoral politics, especially stuck up there in the arsehole of Mayo where they prefer their TDs to clutch rosary beads

Ten years ago Killian Forde was the future of Sinn Fein, then he left for Labour, now he's gone from politics altogether, if you get too impetuous you end up defeating yourself

Then on the other hand Stephen Donnelly got elected on an explicitly anti-FF platform and then waltzed into FF

There's different rules for them lot though







Good to see that you recognise there is diversity of opinion within Mayo and you are not saying an entire group of people hold the same view! You seem to have a lot of time for her, I'd suggest she wouldn't be too impressed with your description of Achill as the "arsehole of Mayo". What's wrong with Achill?
It's the Achilles heel of Mayo
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Donnelly now sits at the cabinet table. 
As I said, Donnelly stood on an explicitly anti-FF platform

To them turn around and join FF was disgraceful, it's no wonder people lose faith in politics when they see that

Whether you agree or disagree with Saoirse McHugh's stance she's at least done it out of principle - Donnelly showed he had zero principle whatsoever - it was a complete 180 reverse on his part

But as I said, different rules for different folks 

Helps when you come up through McKinsey like Donnelly did - such a background reassures the political media of his "people like us" credentials and that he won't rock the boat in any way




"ONE-NIL!" - David Coleman, George Hamilton - "Finding The Words - The Art of Commentary"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 5:02pm
But its not about two speed rules. McHugh made a decision to leave the Green Party herself. Yes its principled, but to me, there was a golden opportunity to be inside the tent, and acting as the party's "conscience" while in Government, for want of a better word. I didn't subscribe to the sneery attitude of people who focus on her electoral failures, and the fact that in substance, this is an ordinary member leaving a political party. She had a national profile, and this gave her a space, but also, her membership gave her the ear of Government. But she made a personal decision. Its not as though she has arbitrarily lost something. This was her own decision. 

Im no fan of Donnelly. Three different points of representation, all of which don't easily match up, does not make for good reading. But my point is that Donnelly now influences policy at the highest level. I'm not asking people to choose the pragmatic over the principled, but if you get too bogged down on either side, you are open to highly justifiable criticism, or you miss out on a chance to make real change. Nobody has to take their pick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanyshuffler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 5:55pm
In comparison to previous Green Party runners in Mayo, McHugh did very well. 6,000 odd votes in comparison to others in the hundreds.
If I had a euro for everytime I was wrong. I'D HAVE ZERO EUROS”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Some man for hyperbole, that's horrific but the county has not 'gone to sh*t', I suggest you look at other countries, Brazil, Lebanon, Zimbabwe, certain US states, Egypt,, Libya, Hong Kong etc etc for what 'going to sh*t' actually looks like. 
Well in the case of Hong Kong it’s only because of China interfering with its affairs.

China interfering in its own affairs is mad stuff alright  LOL


Way off the mark there Muff, it's off topic for this thread so won't go into detail but I suggest you do some reading

For someone who is part Hong Kong-er and has family there, it's horrific and soul destroying to see what's happened there. 

I know you have family there. I remember you mentioning it before on here when discussing China on a different thread a while back. I was only pointing out the fact no matter how reprehensible China's actions are is that it is a Chinese territory and by extension a Chinese affair. The autonomy of Hong Kong is a Chinese issue in the same way the autonomy of Catalonia would be a Spanish issue. 
From feudal serf to spender,
This wonderful world of purchase power
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Some man for hyperbole, that's horrific but the county has not 'gone to sh*t', I suggest you look at other countries, Brazil, Lebanon, Zimbabwe, certain US states, Egypt,, Libya, Hong Kong etc etc for what 'going to sh*t' actually looks like. 
Well in the case of Hong Kong it’s only because of China interfering with its affairs.

China interfering in its own affairs is mad stuff alright  LOL

You look pretty stupid now. Maybe go off and educate yourself.

What country does Hong Kong belong to genius? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Some man for hyperbole, that's horrific but the county has not 'gone to sh*t', I suggest you look at other countries, Brazil, Lebanon, Zimbabwe, certain US states, Egypt,, Libya, Hong Kong etc etc for what 'going to sh*t' actually looks like. 
Well in the case of Hong Kong it’s only because of China interfering with its affairs.

China interfering in its own affairs is mad stuff alright  LOL

You look pretty stupid now. Maybe go off and educate yourself.

What country does Hong Kong belong to genius? 

Land is owned by God, and not by sovereign Governments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Some man for hyperbole, that's horrific but the county has not 'gone to sh*t', I suggest you look at other countries, Brazil, Lebanon, Zimbabwe, certain US states, Egypt,, Libya, Hong Kong etc etc for what 'going to sh*t' actually looks like. 
Well in the case of Hong Kong it’s only because of China interfering with its affairs.

China interfering in its own affairs is mad stuff alright  LOL


Way off the mark there Muff, it's off topic for this thread so won't go into detail but I suggest you do some reading

For someone who is part Hong Kong-er and has family there, it's horrific and soul destroying to see what's happened there. 

I know you have family there. I remember you mentioning it before on here when discussing China on a different thread a while back. I was only pointing out the fact no matter how reprehensible China's actions are is that it is a Chinese territory and by extension a Chinese affair. The autonomy of Hong Kong is a Chinese issue in the same way the autonomy of Catalonia would be a Spanish issue. 

Many Hong Kongers would not agree with you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 8:42pm
Just imagining Muff being transported back in time to outside the GPO in 1916 - "Ah Jaysus lads, would you not just let this drop and leave it to the Brits?" !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Some man for hyperbole, that's horrific but the county has not 'gone to sh*t', I suggest you look at other countries, Brazil, Lebanon, Zimbabwe, certain US states, Egypt,, Libya, Hong Kong etc etc for what 'going to sh*t' actually looks like. 
Well in the case of Hong Kong it’s only because of China interfering with its affairs.

China interfering in its own affairs is mad stuff alright  LOL

You look pretty stupid now. Maybe go off and educate yourself.

What country does Hong Kong belong to genius? 

Land is owned by God, and not by sovereign Governments.
LOL
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Some man for hyperbole, that's horrific but the county has not 'gone to sh*t', I suggest you look at other countries, Brazil, Lebanon, Zimbabwe, certain US states, Egypt,, Libya, Hong Kong etc etc for what 'going to sh*t' actually looks like. 
Well in the case of Hong Kong it’s only because of China interfering with its affairs.

China interfering in its own affairs is mad stuff alright  LOL


Way off the mark there Muff, it's off topic for this thread so won't go into detail but I suggest you do some reading

For someone who is part Hong Kong-er and has family there, it's horrific and soul destroying to see what's happened there. 

I know you have family there. I remember you mentioning it before on here when discussing China on a different thread a while back. I was only pointing out the fact no matter how reprehensible China's actions are is that it is a Chinese territory and by extension a Chinese affair. The autonomy of Hong Kong is a Chinese issue in the same way the autonomy of Catalonia would be a Spanish issue. 
Human rights affect everybody, m8

The Chinese regime is barbaric, look at what they're doing to the Uighurs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Some man for hyperbole, that's horrific but the county has not 'gone to sh*t', I suggest you look at other countries, Brazil, Lebanon, Zimbabwe, certain US states, Egypt,, Libya, Hong Kong etc etc for what 'going to sh*t' actually looks like. 
Well in the case of Hong Kong it’s only because of China interfering with its affairs.

China interfering in its own affairs is mad stuff alright  LOL


Way off the mark there Muff, it's off topic for this thread so won't go into detail but I suggest you do some reading

For someone who is part Hong Kong-er and has family there, it's horrific and soul destroying to see what's happened there. 

I know you have family there. I remember you mentioning it before on here when discussing China on a different thread a while back. I was only pointing out the fact no matter how reprehensible China's actions are is that it is a Chinese territory and by extension a Chinese affair. The autonomy of Hong Kong is a Chinese issue in the same way the autonomy of Catalonia would be a Spanish issue. 
Human rights affect everybody, m8

The Chinese regime is barbaric, look at what they're doing to the Uighurs

Hang on a second here. 

I wasn't even taking a position on this and If I was it certainly wouldn't be in support of an authoritarian state whose head declares himself 'President for Life'. I'm pointing out which should be an uncontroversial fact that Hong Kong is a part of China and it is a Chinese issue/affair. No decent person with any sense of democratic values would support what the Chinese state is perpetrating not only to Hong Kong but on it's own people. Hong Kong is a Chinese territory so an event like the protests obviously involves them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Some man for hyperbole, that's horrific but the county has not 'gone to sh*t', I suggest you look at other countries, Brazil, Lebanon, Zimbabwe, certain US states, Egypt,, Libya, Hong Kong etc etc for what 'going to sh*t' actually looks like. 
Well in the case of Hong Kong it’s only because of China interfering with its affairs.

China interfering in its own affairs is mad stuff alright  LOL


Way off the mark there Muff, it's off topic for this thread so won't go into detail but I suggest you do some reading

For someone who is part Hong Kong-er and has family there, it's horrific and soul destroying to see what's happened there. 

I know you have family there. I remember you mentioning it before on here when discussing China on a different thread a while back. I was only pointing out the fact no matter how reprehensible China's actions are is that it is a Chinese territory and by extension a Chinese affair. The autonomy of Hong Kong is a Chinese issue in the same way the autonomy of Catalonia would be a Spanish issue. 

Many Hong Kongers would not agree with you. 

Well of course it is as Hong Kong is a Chinese territory. You do realize there was a handover in 97?

It doesn't justify the hardline approach China is taking an autonomous region within the Chinese state but you can't deny what the reality is.   


Edited by irishmufc - 24 Jul 2020 at 9:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 9:33pm
Anyway I shouldn't be taking this off topic. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Some man for hyperbole, that's horrific but the county has not 'gone to sh*t', I suggest you look at other countries, Brazil, Lebanon, Zimbabwe, certain US states, Egypt,, Libya, Hong Kong etc etc for what 'going to sh*t' actually looks like. 
Well in the case of Hong Kong it’s only because of China interfering with its affairs.

China interfering in its own affairs is mad stuff alright  LOL


Way off the mark there Muff, it's off topic for this thread so won't go into detail but I suggest you do some reading

For someone who is part Hong Kong-er and has family there, it's horrific and soul destroying to see what's happened there. 

I know you have family there. I remember you mentioning it before on here when discussing China on a different thread a while back. I was only pointing out the fact no matter how reprehensible China's actions are is that it is a Chinese territory and by extension a Chinese affair. The autonomy of Hong Kong is a Chinese issue in the same way the autonomy of Catalonia would be a Spanish issue. 
Human rights affect everybody, m8

The Chinese regime is barbaric, look at what they're doing to the Uighurs

Hang on a second here. 

I wasn't even taking a position on this and If I was it certainly wouldn't be in support of an authoritarian state whose head declares himself 'President for Life'. I'm pointing out which should be an uncontroversial fact that Hong Kong is a part of China and it is a Chinese issue/affair. No decent person with any sense of democratic values would support what the Chinese state is perpetrating not only to Hong Kong but on it's own people. Hong Kong is a Chinese territory so an event like the protests obviously involves them. 
But to state in a reductionist fashion that "it's a Chinese internal affair" is basically carte blanche for grotesque human rights abuse

It's also not true as China signed an international treaty as regards Hong Kong and is flagrantly breaching it

I'm increasingly coming to the view that serious international pressure and if if necessary, severe economic sanctions should be brought to bear on China, China is operating racist gulags and there is a real threat of a genocide there

That's why it's essential that fascist scumbag is put out in America, because they and the EU would have to lead it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Anyway I shouldn't be taking this off topic. Thumbs Up

Agreed

On a side note, Sinn Fein being Sinn Fein again, I see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Some man for hyperbole, that's horrific but the county has not 'gone to sh*t', I suggest you look at other countries, Brazil, Lebanon, Zimbabwe, certain US states, Egypt,, Libya, Hong Kong etc etc for what 'going to sh*t' actually looks like. 
Well in the case of Hong Kong it’s only because of China interfering with its affairs.

China interfering in its own affairs is mad stuff alright  LOL


Way off the mark there Muff, it's off topic for this thread so won't go into detail but I suggest you do some reading

For someone who is part Hong Kong-er and has family there, it's horrific and soul destroying to see what's happened there. 

I know you have family there. I remember you mentioning it before on here when discussing China on a different thread a while back. I was only pointing out the fact no matter how reprehensible China's actions are is that it is a Chinese territory and by extension a Chinese affair. The autonomy of Hong Kong is a Chinese issue in the same way the autonomy of Catalonia would be a Spanish issue. 

Not the same, be closer to if the London government decided they'd had enough of the Scottish government, dissolved the government there and every existing agreement, then installed a Scottish Govt with unionists only and then arrested anyone who protested that and SNP supporters while they were at it. 


Edited by nvidic - 24 Jul 2020 at 10:02pm
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