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Irish Citizens in the North/ Presidential election
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ericdogg View Drop Down
Liam Brady
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Points: 1941 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericdogg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by AntrimMan AntrimMan wrote:

Originally posted by ericdogg ericdogg wrote:

My own personal view is that Northern Ireland is an independent state therefore I said no. I would hope in the future that NI could be full independent state, completely self-governed, self-sustainable and capable of standing on its own rather than a qualifed version of home rule. Surely that has to be the next logical development.


Are ye well this evening Mr Paisley?

Thats exactly the way auld Ian wanted things. He had no more time for London than he did for Dublin.

Thats a nightmare situation IMO - it would give creedance and validity to a failed political entity and christ knows i'd want no part of it
 
Mr. Paisley is well Embarrassed LOL
 
Fair enough AM...most of us are outsiders looking in almost so we are just But would commenting. Would you not rather have a definitive state/country with legislative, executive and judicial powers of its own rather than be in a permanent state of limbo, not really having a true sense of itself of its role or definiton as a nation?
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Originally posted by AntrimMan AntrimMan wrote:

Originally posted by ericdogg ericdogg wrote:

My own personal view is that Northern Ireland is an independent state therefore I said no. I would hope in the future that NI could be full independent state, completely self-governed, self-sustainable and capable of standing on its own rather than a qualifed version of home rule. Surely that has to be the next logical development.


Are ye well this evening Mr Paisley?

Thats exactly the way auld Ian wanted things. He had no more time for London than he did for Dublin.

Thats a nightmare situation IMO - it would give creedance and validity to a failed political entity and christ knows i'd want no part of it

Absolutely. 'Independent Ulster' was official UDA policy for a long period.
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Liam Brady
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Points: 2494 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emerald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by ericdogg ericdogg wrote:

Originally posted by AntrimMan AntrimMan wrote:

Originally posted by ericdogg ericdogg wrote:

My own personal view is that Northern Ireland is an independent state therefore I said no. I would hope in the future that NI could be full independent state, completely self-governed, self-sustainable and capable of standing on its own rather than a qualifed version of home rule. Surely that has to be the next logical development.


Are ye well this evening Mr Paisley?

Thats exactly the way auld Ian wanted things. He had no more time for London than he did for Dublin.

Thats a nightmare situation IMO - it would give creedance and validity to a failed political entity and christ knows i'd want no part of it
 
Mr. Paisley is well Embarrassed LOL
 
Fair enough AM...most of us are outsiders looking in almost so we are just But would commenting. Would you not rather have a definitive state/country with legislative, executive and judicial powers of its own rather than be in a permanent state of limbo, not really having a true sense of itself of its role or definiton as a nation?

Don't think the state of limbo is permanent Eric. Just saying like. Wink
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Originally posted by Emerald Emerald wrote:

Originally posted by ericdogg ericdogg wrote:

Originally posted by AntrimMan AntrimMan wrote:

Originally posted by ericdogg ericdogg wrote:

My own personal view is that Northern Ireland is an independent state therefore I said no. I would hope in the future that NI could be full independent state, completely self-governed, self-sustainable and capable of standing on its own rather than a qualifed version of home rule. Surely that has to be the next logical development.


Are ye well this evening Mr Paisley?

Thats exactly the way auld Ian wanted things. He had no more time for London than he did for Dublin.

Thats a nightmare situation IMO - it would give creedance and validity to a failed political entity and christ knows i'd want no part of it
 
Mr. Paisley is well Embarrassed LOL
 
Fair enough AM...most of us are outsiders looking in almost so we are just But would commenting. Would you not rather have a definitive state/country with legislative, executive and judicial powers of its own rather than be in a permanent state of limbo, not really having a true sense of itself of its role or definiton as a nation?

Don't think the state of limbo is permanent Eric. Just saying like. Wink





Wasn't limbo, now no longer recognised, the Edge of Hell? Wink Kinda ironic word in the context of a Unionist Ulster up to 1969
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Liam Brady
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Points: 2073 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerryfromkerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by soccerc soccerc wrote:


Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

Such partitionist sh*te soccerc


Gobsh*te Wink

Using the perjorative term partitionist is akin to using begrudger - Only used by those without an intellectual capacity to engage in reasonable discussion or debate



Thats like saying calling someone a unionist or a nationalist is "perjorative"

Its more of a less derogatoty way of calling someone a something else
No man has the right to fix the boundary to the march of a nation. No man has the right to say to his country “thus far shalt thou go and no further"
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Points: 7717 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote soccerc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

Originally posted by soccerc soccerc wrote:


Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

Such partitionist sh*te soccerc


Gobsh*te Wink

Using the perjorative term partitionist is akin to using begrudger - Only used by those without an intellectual capacity to engage in reasonable discussion or debate



Thats like saying calling someone a unionist or a nationalist is "perjorative"

Its more of a less derogatoty way of calling someone a something else


It can be, depending on who is calling you it Wink

By just coming out and saying 'Such partitionist sh*te soccerc' without backing it up or providing evidence is lame, possibly just lazy, but nonetheless prejorative, until and unless you provide or are willing to debate and discuss that irrational and stupid statement.
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Jack Charlton
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Points: 9454 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AntrimMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 6:22pm
Originally posted by ericdogg ericdogg wrote:

Originally posted by AntrimMan AntrimMan wrote:

Originally posted by ericdogg ericdogg wrote:

My own personal view is that Northern Ireland is an independent state therefore I said no. I would hope in the future that NI could be full independent state, completely self-governed, self-sustainable and capable of standing on its own rather than a qualifed version of home rule. Surely that has to be the next logical development.


Are ye well this evening Mr Paisley?

Thats exactly the way auld Ian wanted things. He had no more time for London than he did for Dublin.

Thats a nightmare situation IMO - it would give creedance and validity to a failed political entity and christ knows i'd want no part of it
 
Mr. Paisley is well Embarrassed LOL
 
Fair enough AM...most of us are outsiders looking in almost so we are just But would commenting. Would you not rather have a definitive state/country with legislative, executive and judicial powers of its own rather than be in a permanent state of limbo, not really having a true sense of itself of its role or definiton as a nation?


I was being facetious but making a point as well.

And to answer your question. No. For the reasons I outlined above.

And to even call it a country, well, anyone from the north with even a smidgen of Irish or nationalist identity will tell you which orifice you can insert that in


Edited by AntrimMan - 21 Sep 2011 at 6:22pm
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Liam Brady
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Points: 2073 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerryfromkerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by soccerc soccerc wrote:


Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

Originally posted by soccerc soccerc wrote:


Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

Such partitionist sh*te soccerc


Gobsh*te Wink

Using the perjorative term partitionist is akin to using begrudger - Only used by those without an intellectual capacity to engage in reasonable discussion or debate



Thats like saying calling someone a unionist or a nationalist is "perjorative"

Its more of a less derogatoty way of calling someone a something else


It can be, depending on who is calling you it Wink

By just coming out and saying 'Such partitionist sh*te soccerc' without backing it up or providing evidence is lame, possibly just lazy, but nonetheless prejorative, until and unless you provide or are willing to debate and discuss that irrational and stupid statement





The backup is in the post i was referring to. Look the word up in the dictionary and read the post again. Goodnight
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Jack Charlton
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Points: 7717 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote soccerc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

Originally posted by soccerc soccerc wrote:


Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

Originally posted by soccerc soccerc wrote:


Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

Such partitionist sh*te soccerc


Gobsh*te Wink

Using the perjorative term partitionist is akin to using begrudger - Only used by those without an intellectual capacity to engage in reasonable discussion or debate



Thats like saying calling someone a unionist or a nationalist is "perjorative"

Its more of a less derogatoty way of calling someone a something else


It can be, depending on who is calling you it Wink

By just coming out and saying 'Such partitionist sh*te soccerc' without backing it up or providing evidence is lame, possibly just lazy, but nonetheless prejorative, until and unless you provide or are willing to debate and discuss that irrational and stupid statement





The backup is in the post i was referring to. Look the word up in the dictionary and read the post again. Goodnight


Think you need to take a lesson in comprehension and not just readingLOL  You've backed up nothing as you've failed to comprehend the OP, instead choosing to utter nonsense
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Points: 5182 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by ericdogg ericdogg wrote:

Originally posted by AntrimMan AntrimMan wrote:

Originally posted by ericdogg ericdogg wrote:

My own personal view is that Northern Ireland is an independent state therefore I said no. I would hope in the future that NI could be full independent state, completely self-governed, self-sustainable and capable of standing on its own rather than a qualifed version of home rule. Surely that has to be the next logical development.


Are ye well this evening Mr Paisley?

Thats exactly the way auld Ian wanted things. He had no more time for London than he did for Dublin.

Thats a nightmare situation IMO - it would give creedance and validity to a failed political entity and christ knows i'd want no part of it
 
Mr. Paisley is well Embarrassed LOL
 
Fair enough AM...most of us are outsiders looking in almost so we are just But would commenting. Would you not rather have a definitive state/country with legislative, executive and judicial powers of its own rather than be in a permanent state of limbo, not really having a true sense of itself of its role or definiton as a nation?
 
So would you consider Northern Ireland to be a foreign country?
 
Personally I dont understand how any Irishman could consider part of Ireland not to be part of the Nation. A foreign government drawing a line through a map of Ireland cannot create a separate nation. People in the North were Irish before the British decided to partition this country, did they suddenly cease to be Irish (and the thousands of years of history that goes with that) after partition and become "Northern Irish"?
 
Im not having a go at ya man, you're entitled to your opinion, but I really do despair at the attitude of those of us in the South who seem to see the north of Ireland (and by extension people from there) as foreign or different. They are as Irish as we are, as much a part of Ireland as we are, and no artificial border drawn in a map by a foreign government can change that.
 
 
In regards to Presidential Elections Irish citizens living in the North should of course be able to vote. The role does not have any legislative functions and the incumbent represents all of Ireland abroad. I dont see why the right to vote should stop at the border. 
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Yeah i understand AM the quagmire of people in the North...but as long as people from Northern Ireland call themselves either Irish or British, then there is no hope for a self dependent future for the North which is sad imo and could end up (touch wood it wont happen) back to the way it all began, which nobody wants.
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Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:

Originally posted by ericdogg ericdogg wrote:

Originally posted by AntrimMan AntrimMan wrote:

Originally posted by ericdogg ericdogg wrote:

My own personal view is that Northern Ireland is an independent state therefore I said no. I would hope in the future that NI could be full independent state, completely self-governed, self-sustainable and capable of standing on its own rather than a qualifed version of home rule. Surely that has to be the next logical development.


Are ye well this evening Mr Paisley?

Thats exactly the way auld Ian wanted things. He had no more time for London than he did for Dublin.

Thats a nightmare situation IMO - it would give creedance and validity to a failed political entity and christ knows i'd want no part of it



 

Mr. Paisley is well Embarrassed LOL

 

Fair enough AM...most of us are outsiders looking in almost so we are just But would commenting. Would you not rather have a definitive state/country with legislative, executive and judicial powers of its own rather than be in a permanent state of limbo, not really having a true sense of itself of its role or definiton as a nation?




 

So would you consider Northern Ireland to be a foreign country?

 

Personally I dont understand how any Irishman could consider part of Ireland not to be part of the Nation. A foreign government drawing a line through a map of Ireland cannot create a separate nation. People in the North were Irish before the British decided to partition this country, did they suddenly cease to be Irish (and the thousands of years of history that goes with that) after partition and become "Northern Irish"?

 

Im not having a go at ya man, you're entitled to your opinion, but I really do despair at the attitude of those of us in the South who seem to see the north of Ireland (and by extension people from there) as foreign or different. They are as Irish as we are, as much a part of Ireland as we are, and no artificial border drawn in a map by a foreign government can change that.

 

 

In regards to Presidential Elections Irish citizens living in the North should of course be able to vote. The role does not have any legislative functions and the incumbent represents all of Ireland abroad. I dont see why the right to vote should stop at the border. 


Great post walls.

Doubt the likes of soccerc and ericdogg will apreciate it though. They get very upset whensome one suggests that iteland does not stop at the border
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Well Walls, the North have a different currency, different political system, different identity really imo. Whether anyone likes it or not...the island was legally partitioned. It was negotiated, voted upon and fought over. We move on and we have. What followed was violence, then a peace process so the next logical step I would imagine would be their own State.
 
So to answer your question, yes I would consider NI to be an independent state from Ireland and international law would do also.
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Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:


Doubt the likes of soccerc and ericdogg will apreciate it though. They get very upset whensome one suggests that iteland does not stop at the border


Does the extension of the franchise to elect a President of the 'Republic if Ireland' extend to those of a Unionist or Loyalist persuasion?

Is it fitting that a third generation Irish passport holder could possibly affect the outcome of a nation to which they do not contribute?
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Originally posted by soccerc soccerc wrote:


Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:


Doubt the likes of soccerc and ericdogg will apreciate it though. They get very upset whensome one suggests that iteland does not stop at the border


Does the extension of the franchise to elect a President of the 'Republic if Ireland' extend to those of a Unionist or Loyalist persuasion?

Is it fitting that a third generation Irish passport holder could possibly affect the outcome of a nation to which they do not contribute?







I think youll find the title of the president is "president of ireland". Again partionist sh*te by you

i never said third generation passport holders should vote in fact i would be against the dispora having a vote. However all people living in ireland should be entitled to vote



Edited by Jerryfromkerry - 21 Sep 2011 at 7:07pm
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Points: 1941 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericdogg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2011 at 7:07pm
Okay simple analogy...if I live in Dublin near the Meath border, am I from Dublin or Meath? It hardly upsets me. If anyone can show me a map of a 32 County Ireland with no legal borders i'll buy you a pint. Also re the borders argument, it could apply two-way. Ulster Unionists could think that the border of the UK doesnt have to end at the southern tip of Ulster and consider us part of the UK.
 
The problem is just that, surely the way forward is to allow people in Northern Ireland their own State to develop their own national identity. I'm hardly being archaic in my reasoning. So long as NI relys on both Ireland and England to develop an identity for them, then its just one big circle.
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Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:

Originally posted by soccerc soccerc wrote:


Originally posted by Jerryfromkerry Jerryfromkerry wrote:


Doubt the likes of soccerc and ericdogg will apreciate it though. They get very upset whensome one suggests that iteland does not stop at the border


Does the extension of the franchise to elect a President of the 'Republic if Ireland' extend to those of a Unionist or Loyalist persuasion?

Is it fitting that a third generation Irish passport holder could possibly affect the outcome of a nation to which they do not contribute?







I think youll find the title of the president of ireland. Again partionist sh*te by you

i never said third generation passport holders should vote in fact i would be against the dispora having a vote. However all people living in ireland should be entitled to vote




So when is this fictional election for a 'President of Ireland' taking place? LOL
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You were doing fine in the Marty Mc G thread Eric, but you are going down a very dangerous road here. There will never be an independent 6 counties, end of. Either it will stay in the UK, or Ireland will be re-united. How the fook could a state that size stand on it's own two feet ? It has survived for such a long time due to the massive financial subsidies from the British Exchequer. It's a non-starter. Forget it.
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