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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 10:28am
Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:


That is a ridiculously elitist thing to say. Why would anyone change or tone down their accent in professional settingsm ConfusedI' m also from Tallaght and speak in vernacular terms similar to Kenny, I dont think that's ever heald me back professionally, and I work in an industry that is traditionally full of old boys/South Dublin Rugby types.


Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:


That is a ridiculously elitist thing to say. Why would anyone change or tone down their accent in professional settingsm ConfusedI' m also from Tallaght and speak in vernacular terms similar to Kenny, I dont think that's ever heald me back professionally, and I work in an industry that is traditionally full of old boys/South Dublin Rugby types.


Originally posted by Four-Four-Two Four-Four-Two wrote:


seriously embarrassing post. basically you have a prejudice so everyone else must have this prejudice too?
A lot of hurt feelings there

The question is, does what I said about Kenny's accent ring true

I think it's undeniable it does

It certainly does in politics

Like, did the way Kevin O'Keeffe or Michael Healy Rae or Peter Fitzpatrick spoke at those FAI Oireachtas committee hearings influence what you thought of them

Of course it did

Did the way Steve Staunton spoke influence what people thought of him

Of course it did

Staunton's "I'm the gaffer" and the broad Dundalk accent he said it in is still an object of fun nearly 15 years later

Does the way Jacob Rees Mogg or Boris Johnson or Nigel Farridge or Michael Fabricant speak influence what you think of them

Of course it does

The way people speak and especially the way they project themselves is a very big deal in how they are perceived

That's the truth



Edited by sid waddell - 19 Nov 2020 at 10:29am
"ONE-NIL!" - David Coleman, George Hamilton - "Finding The Words - The Art of Commentary"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 10:30am
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Jim Gavin never did one interesting or gripping interview. I never once assumed that's how he spoke to his players in the dressing room. Didn't seem to affect him too much
 
Exactly. That's a bizarre post from Sid.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote avfc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 10:33am
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:


That is a ridiculously elitist thing to say. Why would anyone change or tone down their accent in professional settingsm ConfusedI' m also from Tallaght and speak in vernacular terms similar to Kenny, I dont think that's ever heald me back professionally, and I work in an industry that is traditionally full of old boys/South Dublin Rugby types.


Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:


That is a ridiculously elitist thing to say. Why would anyone change or tone down their accent in professional settingsm ConfusedI' m also from Tallaght and speak in vernacular terms similar to Kenny, I dont think that's ever heald me back professionally, and I work in an industry that is traditionally full of old boys/South Dublin Rugby types.


Originally posted by Four-Four-Two Four-Four-Two wrote:


seriously embarrassing post. basically you have a prejudice so everyone else must have this prejudice too?
A lot of hurt feelings there

The question is, does what I said about Kenny's accent ring true

I think it's undeniable it does

It certainly does in politics

Like, did the way Kevin O'Keeffe or Michael Healy Rae or Peter Fitzpatrick spoke at those FAI Oireachtas committee hearings influence what you thought of them

Of course it did

Did the way Steve Staunton spoke influence what people thought of him

Of course it did

Staunton's "I'm the gaffer" and the broad Dundalk accent he said it in is still an object of fun nearly 15 years later

Does the way Jacob Rees Mogg or Boris Johnson or Nigel Farridge or Michael Fabricant speak influence what you think of them

Of course it does

The way people speak and especially the way they project themselves is a very big deal in how they are perceived

That's the truth

 
Accent discrimination is very real. I have experienced this living  in the UK, and seen colleagues pigeon holed based on accent. Lots of footy managers are pigeon holed due to stereotypes associated with accent. Oddly, in Ireland many fans poke fun at managers based on their accent and the associated stereotype with it and would alas dismiss there chances of ever potentially being our manager.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 10:43am
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

That interview didn't bother me in the slightest and I honestly couldn't care less about interviews. The notion that he speaks in the same way in the dressing room is ludicrous ffs.

Jim Gavin never did one interesting or gripping interview. I never once assumed that's how he spoke to his players in the dressing room. Didn't seem to affect him too much 

Different managers have different modus operandi in terms of dealing with the press

Gavin was of the "say nothing" mindset

Which actually takes serious confidence in its own way

But it was obvious Gavin was articulate and had firm ideas and knew what he was at, he was not nervous in dealing with the press, he just said nothing of interest because that's what his way of doing things was, he was comfortable with that

Kenny seems to be desperately trying to defend himself and justify himself in interviews but he doesn't know how to do it effectively

And again, you have to go back to playing background as a driver of self confidence

Gavin was an All-Ireland winner as a player and at u-21 level as a manager - that gave him immense confidence in himself

Kenny has no playing background of note and has everything to prove, because he has never done it at this level

The size of a job can make people shrink

Roy Hodgson shrank visibly when Liverpool manager because the job was just too big for him

Even Brendan Rodgers, who is not noted for his lack of self confidence, seemed to shrink at times when he was Liverpool manager

Management is not just the art persuading players, its the whole rigmarole that surrounds it and that feeds back into persuading players - the whole thing is a feedback loop

Football management is vicious in its brutality and it is not fair, any weakness or perceived weakness at all is relentlessly examined and exploited and you have a skin thicker than a rhinoceros's arse to deal with it


"ONE-NIL!" - David Coleman, George Hamilton - "Finding The Words - The Art of Commentary"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 10:48am
Just so we're clear here, are you suggesting that Kenny should alter his accent in interviews? As in, like what Steve McClaren did in Holland?
Things aren't exactly going the Mae West for him right now but I can only imagine how bad they would get if he randomly started doing his interviews in a different accent...

"This is what separates the men from the fagg*ts." Dec. Jerry Lynch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 10:58am
[QUOTE=sausy] who gives a sh1t about his accent or how his interviews are perceived, stupid things to mention. He'll be judged on performances and results and while the last few months have been bitterly disappointing, I don't think any genuine analysis of his time in the job so far can be made given the unprecedented disruptions he seen with Covid, injury etc.[/QUOTE

A few people on here are desperate for Kenny to fail before he even managed the first game. 

To now make up ridiculous conspiracy theories that players don't like his accent so look to put no effort into games is as embarrassing an assessment as you're likely to ever see.

Irish fans desperate for ireland to lose... shambles.
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 10:59am
Originally posted by avfc avfc wrote:

Accent discrimination is very real. I have experienced this living  in the UK, and seen colleagues pigeon holed based on accent. Lots of footy managers are pigeon holed due to stereotypes associated with accent. Oddly, in Ireland many fans poke fun at managers based on their accent and the associated stereotype with it and would alas dismiss there chances of ever potentially being our manager.
 
The accent is one thing but the pronunciation of names and words is even more important

Appearance is another thing

When Cian O'Neill, who is a specialist strength and conditioning coach, was manager of Kildare he was ridiculed on social media because he's, well, a "big" man, and I mean more in the width than the height sense of the word

Kenny genuinely does talk like you'd expect some lad on a barstool in the Cherry Tree to talk

He doesn't have much gravitas about him, he doesn't come across as a person of stature

Certain accents just don't fit in the football management game - Dublin accents don't, Cockney accents don't, but Glasgow accents and Yorkshire accents do - none of it is fair, but that's the way it is
"ONE-NIL!" - David Coleman, George Hamilton - "Finding The Words - The Art of Commentary"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 10:59am
His accent isn't a problem, but he looks very nervous, uncertain and indecisive in interviews, and finds it difficult to string a coherent sentence together. When you are winning, who cares? When you are on an atrocious run of form, it just adds to the massive doubts people have about his suitability for this job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 11:15am
Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Just so we're clear here, are you suggesting that Kenny should alter his accent in interviews? As in, like what Steve McClaren did in Holland?
Things aren't exactly going the Mae West for him right now but I can only imagine how bad they would get if he randomly started doing his interviews in a different accent...
It's not really a fixable problem at this stage

He's clearly not going to change ih, sorry, it

What I am saying is that that sort of lack of pronunciation, especially when coupled with a slow, ponderous manner of speaking, is one factor which adds up to somebody not being taken seriously in a job

Niall Quinn is quite instructive in this 

When Quinn had just gone off to Arsenal, he had a very different accent and manner of speaking, he was pure howya, awrigh bud

Somewhere over the next few years, he changed his voice to being what we now are familiar with - Mr. Elocution

Which has led to him being always taken very seriously as a person of substance and ability in the business and media world - even though from what I can make out, he's a pure spoofer

But there is a perception of him not being a spoofer because he has a clipped accent

"ONE-NIL!" - David Coleman, George Hamilton - "Finding The Words - The Art of Commentary"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 11:28am
imagine hating yourself and your accent so much to post this nonsense and trying to deflect it on to someone else who has achieved what Kenny has in life. 


Even if what Sid says above is true his main audience is the players who largely have the working class accents that Sid seems to be so ashamed of. 


Edited by Baldrick - 19 Nov 2020 at 11:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote avfc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 11:32am
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Just so we're clear here, are you suggesting that Kenny should alter his accent in interviews? As in, like what Steve McClaren did in Holland?
Things aren't exactly going the Mae West for him right now but I can only imagine how bad they would get if he randomly started doing his interviews in a different accent...
It's not really a fixable problem at this stage

He's clearly not going to change ih, sorry, it

What I am saying is that that sort of lack of pronunciation, especially when coupled with a slow, ponderous manner of speaking, is one factor which adds up to somebody not being taken seriously in a job

Niall Quinn is quite instructive in this 

When Quinn had just gone off to Arsenal, he had a very different accent and manner of speaking, he was pure howya, awrigh bud

Somewhere over the next few years, he changed his voice to being what we now are familiar with - Mr. Elocution

Which has led to him being always taken very seriously as a person of substance and ability in the business and media world - even though from what I can make out, he's a pure spoofer

But there is a perception of him not being a spoofer because he has a clipped accent

 
Exactly.
 
Even the way he does his tie up. He doesn't 'own' the suit when he wears it. He dresses like a young lad being forced to wear a suit by his parents.
 
His body language is awful, does not inspire confidence at all.
 
His tone of voice is weak. It screams indecisiveness.
 
A football manager needs to be the ultimate alpha male to succeed. SK comes across as very Beta.
 
He's walking into a dressing room full of cocky young millionaires. He doesn't tick any box.
 
Apart of course from that great win against BATE. Incidentaly, qualifying for the EL group stage via the CL is nt mission impossible for a half decent LoI club as proven this year again.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 11:53am
Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

As somebody who talks in a not too dissimilar accent, pronunciation etc. to Kenny, ie. a west Dublin housing estate accent, I generally can't take managers who speak with that sort of a Dublin accent seriously

Like, he pronounces Jason Knight as "Nigh", Troy Parrott as "Parreh" and Adam Idah as "Eye-dah" - Idah has even tweeted the correct pronunciation of his own name for clarity

For somebody with a strong accent, like myself, you generally know for professional purposes to tone it down a little, I mean you don't have to change your accent very much, but you just make sure to pronounce things correctly and speak in grammatically correct language

No successful Dublin GAA manager has had that sort of an accent either, I mean they have had Dublin accents but there's a difference between say, a Kevin Heffernan or Pat Gilroy accent - or probably more to the point, manner of speaking, as Heffernan and Gilroy both had old school Dublin accents - and how Kenny speaks 

I can't take managers who speak in broad Cockney seriously either

I'd have similar enough concerns about how Dessie Farrell projects himself, he's a like a mortuary slab in human form




This reads like a Fine Gael tweet LOL

LOL Thought the exact same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

imagine hating yourself and your accent so much to post this nonsense and trying to deflect it on to someone else who has achieved what Kenny has in life. 


Even if what Sid says above is true his main audience is the players who largely have the working class accents that Sid seems to be so ashamed of. 

Exactly LOL

Sid, from previous posts, I gather we went to the same primary school, grew up in the same area, possibly even the same estate. No one I know has had to alter their accent to succeed in whatever field they work in. Bizarre comments.

Kenny has a fairly neutral Dublin accent for someone who grew up in Tallaght. It's not as if he sounds like Rats from the flats.

I'd question your Quinn example by the way. I know a couple of people who were in his school and they would have a similar accent to him.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Four-Four-Two Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Just so we're clear here, are you suggesting that Kenny should alter his accent in interviews? As in, like what Steve McClaren did in Holland?
Things aren't exactly going the Mae West for him right now but I can only imagine how bad they would get if he randomly started doing his interviews in a different accent...
It's not really a fixable problem at this stage

He's clearly not going to change ih, sorry, it

What I am saying is that that sort of lack of pronunciation, especially when coupled with a slow, ponderous manner of speaking, is one factor which adds up to somebody not being taken seriously in a job

Niall Quinn is quite instructive in this 

When Quinn had just gone off to Arsenal, he had a very different accent and manner of speaking, he was pure howya, awrigh bud

Somewhere over the next few years, he changed his voice to being what we now are familiar with - Mr. Elocution

Which has led to him being always taken very seriously as a person of substance and ability in the business and media world - even though from what I can make out, he's a pure spoofer

But there is a perception of him not being a spoofer because he has a clipped accent


quinn is from terenure ffs, completely different background to kenny and there's absolute no reason any person should hide their origins to please snobs like you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

imagine hating yourself and your accent so much to post this nonsense and trying to deflect it on to someone else who has achieved what Kenny has in life. 


Even if what Sid says above is true his main audience is the players who largely have the working class accents that Sid seems to be so ashamed of. 
Kenny has achieved a lot in life, fair play to him

The point is whether he's going to achieve in the job he's currently in

This has nothing to do with shame about accents - I'm not ashamed of me accent, but if I was going for an interview I'd say my accent, not me accent

I'm simply pointing out the reality of how certain accents, and more to the point, certain manners of speaking - pronunciation, language, projection, are perceived, and I know, because certain people have perceived me in a particular way because of how I spoke

Like, Johnny Giles has a Dublin accent, and why wouldn't he, coming from Ormond Square, but he has always projected himself speaking wise in a much better way, he pronounced his words properly

Ponderous, slow delivery, allied to lack of pronunciation = the perception of a rabbeh in de headlights






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote avfc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

imagine hating yourself and your accent so much to post this nonsense and trying to deflect it on to someone else who has achieved what Kenny has in life. 


Even if what Sid says above is true his main audience is the players who largely have the working class accents that Sid seems to be so ashamed of. 
Kenny has achieved a lot in life, fair play to him

The point is whether he's going to achieve in the job he's currently in

This has nothing to do with shame about accents - I'm not ashamed of me accent, but if I was going for an interview I'd say my accent, not me accent

I'm simply pointing out the reality of how certain accents, and more to the point, certain manners of speaking - pronunciation, language, projection, are perceived, and I know, because certain people have perceived me in a particular way because of how I spoke

Like, Johnny Giles has a Dublin accent, and why wouldn't he, coming from Ormond Square, but he has always projected himself speaking wise in a much better way, he pronounced his words properly

Ponderous, slow delivery, allied to lack of pronunciation = the perception of a rabbeh in de headlights






 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 12:31pm
The level of self loathing here is unbelievable.  You are making it out that Kenny sounds like Nidge or One of the lads from Love Hate ffs.  He is more like Larry Mullen who hasn’t done too bad. 

There is a huge element amongst the support base on here that has identity issues and they think only the outside can bring us to the promised land. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote avfc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

The level of self loathing here is unbelievable.  You are making it out that Kenny sounds like Nidge or One of the lads from Love Hate ffs.  He is more like Larry Mullen who hasn’t done too bad. 

There is a huge element amongst the support base on here that has identity issues and they think only the outside can bring us to the promised land. 
 
Understandable. We have never qualified for a major tournament with a manager born in our jurisdiction.
 
 
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