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Ireland u19s

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John Nice View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 3:53pm
Seems that 2004 born lads arent eligible for the U19s, despite the fact that some may be only 18 when the first U19 qualifying group games kick off in November e.g. Oisin Gallagher. 

Seems harsh, it will be difficult for the 2004 lads to get international football with 2002 & 2003 lads also eligible for the U21s.

Am I missing something here?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pinginí Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 4:12pm
There's an U19 Euros every year so the cut off for 2004 was the 2023 tournament that just took place.

The problem is that there is an U21 Euros every 2 years in comparison, taking place in odd years. Lads born in even years miss out on that gap year for U19. They benefit by having the cut off age for the 21s always being an even year. So 2002 being the cutoff for the upcoming for the 2025 U21 tournament. They gain that underage year back by being eligbile for the 21s while pushing or being 23. So the 2002 and 2003 players underage international careers will end at the same time at the end of this campaign.

There's no fair way to do it unless you have an U21 Euros every year too or make the U19s a two year cycle.


Edited by Pinginí - 04 Sep 2023 at 4:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by Pinginí Pinginí wrote:

There's an U19 Euros every year so the cut off for 2004 was the 2023 tournament that just took place.

The problem is that there is an U21 Euros every 2 years in comparison, taking place in odd years. Lads born in even years miss out on that gap year for U19. They benefit by having the cut off age for the 21s always being an even year. So 2002 being the cutoff for the upcoming for the 2025 U21 tournament. They gain that underage year back by being eligbile for the 21s while pushing or being 23. So the 2002 and 2003 players underage international careers will end at the same time at the end of this campaign.

There's no fair way to do it unless you have an U21 Euros every year too or make the U19s a two year cycle.

Cheers, got ya,  just seemed odd to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maccatacca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 4:27pm
Does that mean Nathan Fraser is over age for upcoming 19s games?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 4:30pm
No he's born 2005
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 11:02pm
Yes, under 19 cut-off is based on the year the finals are held (in this case 2024), so it's for players born 2005 or later.

Whereas the under 21 cut-off is based on the year the qualification groups start. The under 21 finals tournament is an under 23 competition by that point really. 

While the 2004s have it harder to get into the under 21s this time around, they have the advantage that they will still be under 21 again for the next campaign. So it probably balances out really. 

Possibly there is justification to resurrect the Under 20s squad again to keep lads involved that don't make the under 21s. England always keep an under 20 team going. But we tried it a couple of years ago and it was a mess - amateur opposition, terrible pitch, just badly put together. And hard to get players to travel over for a non-competitive age group when many are in or around their clubs' first teams at that point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:


Yes there is a part of me that thinks we should take a different stance at the age groups when it comes to English born players given the way they are actively recruiting these days. There's an argument for leaving them to England at the age groups and then bringing the better ones in later at senior level when they inevitably don't make the England senior team. Would stop them being ruled ineligible when they switch away after agent pressure etc.


Just on this because I had the rules wrong and not sure if you've said similar before YTM about players needing to have their nationality sorted before turning 21.

Seems that players need to have their nationality sorted before making their first competitive cap at underage level. Rather than just having it sorted before turning 21.

So if Liam Delap hadn't got his citizenship sorted before his first competitive cap at underage for England he becomes ineligible for us after February 2024 if he plays for England's U21s.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theathletic.com/4181245/2022/03/17/what-are-the-rules-on-footballers-switching-their-international-allegiance-and-how-have-they-changed/%3famp=1

What are the rules regarding under-21 players?
Players who feature in age-group sides, including under-21 level, are eligible to change allegiances.

They must, however, have already held the nationality of the country they wish to switch to at the time of playing their first match in an official competition for the country they want to move away from.

If they did not already hold that nationality, they are allowed to switch — but only if they were under the age of 21 when they featured for the country they want to switch from.

Additionally, players who played for a country, but not at senior level, who were under 21 at the time and have since lived in a different country for five years or more are eligible to switch.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howdo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 2:37pm
Has there been any comment on Zefi's omission from the squads?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:


Yes there is a part of me that thinks we should take a different stance at the age groups when it comes to English born players given the way they are actively recruiting these days. There's an argument for leaving them to England at the age groups and then bringing the better ones in later at senior level when they inevitably don't make the England senior team. Would stop them being ruled ineligible when they switch away after agent pressure etc.


Just on this because I had the rules wrong and not sure if you've said similar before YTM about players needing to have their nationality sorted before turning 21.

Seems that players need to have their nationality sorted before making their first competitive cap at underage level. Rather than just having it sorted before turning 21.

So if Liam Delap hadn't got his citizenship sorted before his first competitive cap at underage for England he becomes ineligible for us after February 2024 if he plays for England's U21s.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theathletic.com/4181245/2022/03/17/what-are-the-rules-on-footballers-switching-their-international-allegiance-and-how-have-they-changed/%3famp=1

What are the rules regarding under-21 players?
Players who feature in age-group sides, including under-21 level, are eligible to change allegiances.

They must, however, have already held the nationality of the country they wish to switch to at the time of playing their first match in an official competition for the country they want to move away from.

If they did not already hold that nationality, they are allowed to switch — but only if they were under the age of 21 when they featured for the country they want to switch from.

Additionally, players who played for a country, but not at senior level, who were under 21 at the time and have since lived in a different country for five years or more are eligible to switch.


Yes that's correct, only applies to granny rulers though because people with an Irish born parent are Irish citizens from birth. 

The best thing we could do is make sure the Delaps and the Cannons have their Irish citizenship sorted at a young age, then let them away with England if they want. Most would then end up coming back to Ireland eventually and would be entirely eligible to do so, because they wouldn't have played competitively for Ireland at underage level.

My own personal view is that the rules are too complicated and players should never be tied to a country just because they've played underage for them. But once they take a senior cap, that should be that, no switching afterwards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Howdo Howdo wrote:

Has there been any comment on Zefi's omission from the squads?


Probably not called up cause the manager wants to try out new players in the friendlies.

Could be injured. Inters U19s have played two League matches so far he's not featured in either one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bandwagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Howdo Howdo wrote:

Has there been any comment on Zefi's omission from the squads?


Hes still injured. He had shoulder surgery over the summer and hasn't been in back training yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by Howdo Howdo wrote:

Has there been any comment on Zefi's omission from the squads?


Hes still injured. He had shoulder surgery over the summer and hasn't been in back training yet.

And his mooted move to Newcastle never materialised.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fozz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:


Yes there is a part of me that thinks we should take a different stance at the age groups when it comes to English born players given the way they are actively recruiting these days...


Just on this because I had the rules wrong and not sure if you've said similar before YTM about players needing to have their nationality sorted before turning 21...


Yeah, this rule has caught me out aswell.
So it works in favour of the larger countries who may have lads dabble with playing for a smaller nation and then look to switch home as they will have that 2nd nationality from birth...which doesn't work to our benefit the other way.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:


Yes there is a part of me that thinks we should take a different stance at the age groups when it comes to English born players given the way they are actively recruiting these days...


Just on this because I had the rules wrong and not sure if you've said similar before YTM about players needing to have their nationality sorted before turning 21...



Yeah, this rule has caught me out aswell.
So it works in favour of the larger countries who may have lads dabble with playing for a smaller nation and then look to switch home as they will have that 2nd nationality from birth...which doesn't work to our benefit the other way.




It's a rule that's still likely gonna hit us negatively unless the FAI up their game and identify dual players sooner and make sure their citizenship is sorted. Unless they fancy lobbying to government to make third generations citizenships by birth rather than going through the foreign births register.

This current rule is the change brought in which initialled prevented Ryan Johansson from switching to us. The old rule might have ruled Liam Delap ineligible anyway whereas he can still switch as of now even if he wasn't an Irish citizen when he first played for England.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2023 at 1:58pm
Wasnt the United lad Moorhouse called up previously, so a surprise maybe not to see him. First game of the window (friendly) is today vs Bosnia at 430 Irish time. Dont think its available to view anywhere???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2023 at 3:25pm
https://twitter.com/PlayerLink2/status/1699789606882042129

With thanks to Mark Broomy on twitter for the link, the game is live on you tube
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2023 at 3:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Banana_RepublicFC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2023 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Line Up



Ferizaj on the bench. 2 games, but would have expected him to start.

Bloxham is one to keep an eye on. He scored on his professional debut for Blackburn last month.
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