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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Would have been a massive boost if Liam Delap was on that list. 


History dictates that >95% of these lads won't play for us if they end up at teams like Arsenal/Tottenham/Everton/Leeds. Or pretty much any team in the PL that isn't a yoyo club.

Christie, Walters, St Ledger, Arter, McGoldrick, Green, Westwood, Robinson, O'Dowda, Keogh

I thought of 10 granny rule players off the top of my head and those are probably the highest profile granny rule players who've played for us since the Staunton era.

Not one of those would have got within an arse's roar of the English setup.

O'Dowda and Robinson were young and playing at a reasonable level when they were tied down, but we're talking about someone who has made half of his career appearances at club level off the bench (O'Dowda), and someone who's failed to make the grade at two PL clubs (Robinson).

I don't think any of that group were savants for us, or anyone else, at underage level. If an eligible player comes along and makes an impact for us, I think it's going to continue to be a grafter like Walters or McGoldrick and not a playmaker in the mold of Hoolahan or a goalscorer in the mold of Robbie.

It's a nice diversion looking at this list of players, even for me, and it's nice to wonder about what-ifs, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Would have been a massive boost if Liam Delap was on that list. 
 

I would have thought that would be a snowballs chance in hell of ever happening? Do you think it possible? 
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Liam Brady
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Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Would have been a massive boost if Liam Delap was on that list. 


History dictates that >95% of these lads won't play for us if they end up at teams like Arsenal/Tottenham/Everton/Leeds. Or pretty much any team in the PL that isn't a yoyo club.

Christie, Walters, St Ledger, Arter, McGoldrick, Green, Westwood, Robinson, O'Dowda, Keogh

I thought of 10 granny rule players off the top of my head and those are probably the highest profile granny rule players who've played for us since the Staunton era.

Not one of those would have got within an arse's roar of the English setup.

O'Dowda and Robinson were young and playing at a reasonable level when they were tied down, but we're talking about someone who has made half of his career appearances at club level off the bench (O'Dowda), and someone who's failed to make the grade at two PL clubs (Robinson).

I don't think any of that group were savants for us, or anyone else, at underage level. If an eligible player comes along and makes an impact for us, I think it's going to continue to be a grafter like Walters or McGoldrick and not a playmaker in the mold of Hoolahan or a goalscorer in the mold of Robbie.

It's a nice diversion looking at this list of players, even for me, and it's nice to wonder about what-ifs, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

History probably dictates 95% probably won't go on to be senior internationals...for anyone. 
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Would have been a massive boost if Liam Delap was on that list. 
 

I would have thought that would be a snowballs chance in hell of ever happening? Do you think it possible? 

Based on no evidence or information that isn't already easily available (so purely opinion) I think he'll play for ireland. 

His Irish heritage and family are as green as you can get. His dad played in green for the u21 and senior team and would have had a lot more caps if injury didn't get in the way, and he has close ties to family in ireland. Strong enough to have a name like Liam.

Wheras Harry Kane didn't really value his irish heritage, I get the feeling that  the delap family celebrate it.

Again, only opinion.
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Would have been a massive boost if Liam Delap was on that list. 
 

I would have thought that would be a snowballs chance in hell of ever happening? Do you think it possible? 

Based on no evidence or information that isn't already easily available (so purely opinion) I think he'll play for ireland. 

His Irish heritage and family are as green as you can get. His dad played in green for the u21 and senior team and would have had a lot more caps if injury didn't get in the way, and he has close ties to family in ireland. Strong enough to have a name like Liam.

Wheras Harry Kane didn't really value his irish heritage, I get the feeling that  the delap family celebrate it.

Again, only opinion.


Does someone have to declare for Ireland to show appreciation for their heritage? Jamie O'Hara is perfectly aware of his Irish heritage but didn't want to take caps off an Irishman. Dave Kitson refused to play for Ireland out of principle. Harry Kane's father maintains links to Ireland and I'm sure he passed that down to Harry. But he was born and raised in England and feels English, and most importantly, is good enough to play for England.

There are loads of players playing for Ireland, or who played for Ireland, who don't care a jot about their Irish heritage. And there are likely several in that U19 list.

Sentiment rarely comes into it. And I suppose I should get with the program along with everyone else in that regard, even if I take a more cynical approach to the scorched-earth policy of recruiting anyone with an Irish surname, often to the neglect of, you know, actual Irish players at similar age groups.
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Would have been a massive boost if Liam Delap was on that list. 
 

I would have thought that would be a snowballs chance in hell of ever happening? Do you think it possible? 

Based on no evidence or information that isn't already easily available (so purely opinion) I think he'll play for ireland. 

His Irish heritage and family are as green as you can get. His dad played in green for the u21 and senior team and would have had a lot more caps if injury didn't get in the way, and he has close ties to family in ireland. Strong enough to have a name like Liam.

Wheras Harry Kane didn't really value his irish heritage, I get the feeling that  the delap family celebrate it.

Again, only opinion.

Think it's fairly clear he wants to play for England. He played for England Under 18s at the end of March. 


Edited by Borussia - 19 May 2021 at 2:05pm
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Ray Houghton
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I think its more complicated than that hotlips, the international football eligibility framework is based on feelings and ambition.

Odubeko is of irish berth to parents of Nigerian heritage but may opt to play for England due to football ambition.

Bazunu has stronger ties as he was born in ireland and has an Irish parent. So far less likely want to play anywhere else bit still eligible.

You've got Ryan johansson who has taken the legal route to play for ireland.

There are ireland supporters on here that were born outside of ireland, given the chance would chose one of two international options had they played professionally. First option would be ireland, second option would be not playing international football at all.

As I said, Liam Dalap playing for ireland is just my opinion so should be taken with a pinch of salt.
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Would have been a massive boost if Liam Delap was on that list. 
 

I would have thought that would be a snowballs chance in hell of ever happening? Do you think it possible? 

Based on no evidence or information that isn't already easily available (so purely opinion) I think he'll play for ireland. 

His Irish heritage and family are as green as you can get. His dad played in green for the u21 and senior team and would have had a lot more caps if injury didn't get in the way, and he has close ties to family in ireland. Strong enough to have a name like Liam.

Wheras Harry Kane didn't really value his irish heritage, I get the feeling that  the delap family celebrate it.

Again, only opinion.

Think it's fairly clear he wants to play for England. He played for England Under 18s at the end of March. 

Grealish played for the ireland youth setup with no ambition to play for the senior setup. Grealishs brother was on this forum saying "he's happy playing for ireland for now"
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Would have been a massive boost if Liam Delap was on that list. 
 

I would have thought that would be a snowballs chance in hell of ever happening? Do you think it possible? 

Based on no evidence or information that isn't already easily available (so purely opinion) I think he'll play for ireland. 

His Irish heritage and family are as green as you can get. His dad played in green for the u21 and senior team and would have had a lot more caps if injury didn't get in the way, and he has close ties to family in ireland. Strong enough to have a name like Liam.

Wheras Harry Kane didn't really value his irish heritage, I get the feeling that  the delap family celebrate it.

Again, only opinion.

Think it's fairly clear he wants to play for England. He played for England Under 18s at the end of March. 

Grealish played for the ireland youth setup with no ambition to play for the senior setup. Grealishs brother was on this forum saying "he's happy playing for ireland for now"

Where is there any indication that Delap wants to play for Ireland?
Kenny mentioned they already talked to him and he has subsequently then played for England. 
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Would have been a massive boost if Liam Delap was on that list. 
 

I would have thought that would be a snowballs chance in hell of ever happening? Do you think it possible? 

Based on no evidence or information that isn't already easily available (so purely opinion) I think he'll play for ireland. 

His Irish heritage and family are as green as you can get. His dad played in green for the u21 and senior team and would have had a lot more caps if injury didn't get in the way, and he has close ties to family in ireland. Strong enough to have a name like Liam.

Wheras Harry Kane didn't really value his irish heritage, I get the feeling that  the delap family celebrate it.

Again, only opinion.


Does someone have to declare for Ireland to show appreciation for their heritage? Jamie O'Hara is perfectly aware of his Irish heritage but didn't want to take caps off an Irishman. Dave Kitson refused to play for Ireland out of principle. Harry Kane's father maintains links to Ireland and I'm sure he passed that down to Harry. But he was born and raised in England and feels English, and most importantly, is good enough to play for England.

There are loads of players playing for Ireland, or who played for Ireland, who don't care a jot about their Irish heritage. And there are likely several in that U19 list.

Sentiment rarely comes into it. And I suppose I should get with the program along with everyone else in that regard, even if I take a more cynical approach to the scorched-earth policy of recruiting anyone with an Irish surname, often to the neglect of, you know, actual Irish players at similar age groups.
 

I have no issue with a scorched earth policy actually I’d regard this U19 camp in England full of lads of dual nationalities coming into our underage setup planting the seed showing your interest in them as shrewd a move as I have seen in a while. We will be having a separate homegrown/FAI camp too so it’s not that their expense.  

However it can’t continue to be at the expense of our homegrown players it needs to be in conjunction to complement a conveyor belt of homegrown talent you are spot on there. We have homegrown talent coming through now again. 

As regards Delap I’d make it shorter you would see Odubeko play for us and I don’t give that a hope not in the short term. Odubeko seems to have his eyes set on England. 
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Would have been a massive boost if Liam Delap was on that list. 
 

I would have thought that would be a snowballs chance in hell of ever happening? Do you think it possible? 

Based on no evidence or information that isn't already easily available (so purely opinion) I think he'll play for ireland. 

His Irish heritage and family are as green as you can get. His dad played in green for the u21 and senior team and would have had a lot more caps if injury didn't get in the way, and he has close ties to family in ireland. Strong enough to have a name like Liam.

Wheras Harry Kane didn't really value his irish heritage, I get the feeling that  the delap family celebrate it.

Again, only opinion.
 


Entitled to it. The one thing I would definitely agree with is there’s more of a chance of the likes of Hodge Smallbone or even a Delap or an Odubeko to turn around and commit/stick with us in 3/4 years time due to the sheer amount of raw talent England are producing again. 

Look at the forwards, the attacking midfielders and the full backs England possess. It’s frightening the depth they are developing in those positions particularly.

Joel Bagan who’s is more than rumoured to be committing to us is an example of this. I’m not sure a young lad showing promise like he has on the cusp of playing for Cardiff only for injury at 19 would have done that 7/8 years ago. England 7/8 years ago had Baines Bertrand an ancient Ashley Cole out of favour and Luke Shaw being brought to the World Cup at 17. 

Che Adam’s for Scotland another example 7/8 years ago he wouldnt have been as far away from playing for England. Welbeck Rooney Sturridge and Lambert were the World Cup 2014 options. 

No comparison
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Ray Houghton
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It really doesn't sit well that there will be (and currently are) players playing for ireland that would prefer to be playing for another team. 

They'll choose ireland as the next best option to push forward their football career (I guess its always been like that really when you hear jokes that we are the England B team)

If Bamford doesn't get chosen for the ngland squad in the euros and then declares for ireland, I wonder what the response would be?
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Josh Ireland scored 2 and assisted 2 in todays game for what its worth.
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

It really doesn't sit well that there will be (and currently are) players playing for ireland that would prefer to be playing for another team. 

They'll choose ireland as the next best option to push forward their football career (I guess its always been like that really when you hear jokes that we are the England B team)

If Bamford doesn't get chosen for the ngland squad in the euros and then declares for ireland, I wonder what the response would be?


 

Can he still technically declare for us? I thought he has been capped no? 

Some of our cult hero’s only declared for Ireland late in the day and openly admit they would have declared for England if approached strongly. 

It wouldn’t bother me at all similar to Che Adam’s with Scotland although it’s got to be a complement to the homegrown quality like Scotland not at the expense of producing it. 


Edited by kevin100 - 19 May 2021 at 6:00pm
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by JoxerDaly JoxerDaly wrote:

Josh Ireland scored 2 and assisted 2 in todays game for what its worth.
 

U18s? Dortmund were trying to sign him apparently so he must be good. Don’t confess to knowing much about him beyond that. 

Good to see they have got him on board for the training camp. 
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Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Would have been a massive boost if Liam Delap was on that list. 
 

I would have thought that would be a snowballs chance in hell of ever happening? Do you think it possible? 


Based on no evidence or information that isn't already easily available (so purely opinion) I think he'll play for ireland. 

His Irish heritage and family are as green as you can get. His dad played in green for the u21 and senior team and would have had a lot more caps if injury didn't get in the way, and he has close ties to family in ireland. Strong enough to have a name like Liam.

Wheras Harry Kane didn't really value his irish heritage, I get the feeling that  the delap family celebrate it.

Again, only opinion.
 


Entitled to it. The one thing I would definitely agree with is there’s more of a chance of the likes of Hodge Smallbone or even a Delap or an Odubeko to turn around and commit/stick with us in 3/4 years time due to the sheer amount of raw talent England are producing again. 

Look at the forwards, the attacking midfielders and the full backs England possess. It’s frightening the depth they are developing in those positions particularly.

Joel Bagan who’s is more than rumoured to be committing to us is an example of this. I’m not sure a young lad showing promise like he has on the cusp of playing for Cardiff only for injury at 19 would have done that 7/8 years ago. England 7/8 years ago had Baines Bertrand an ancient Ashley Cole out of favour and Luke Shaw being brought to the World Cup at 17. 

Che Adam’s for Scotland another example 7/8 years ago he wouldnt have been as far away from playing for England. Welbeck Rooney Sturridge and Lambert were the World Cup 2014 options. 

No comparison


Speaking of Joe Hodge, is he still injured?
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I thought Gilsenan declared for Australia 
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Jack Charlton
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Gilsenan hasn't played competitively for either country as far as I know. So no need for him to declare for either as of yet. Even if he goes with Ireland for now on the back of this training camp, he can still switch back to Australia in future if he wants to.
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