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Éire v Switzerland 05.09.19

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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUBLIN DOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by The White Cafu The White Cafu wrote:

Pyro ClapClapClapClap

Looked to be a scrap in the middle of 114 at half time lastnight, anyone see what happened??
I think that is when carlowmans mot farthed 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Snrub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

I really can't help but think that this qualifying campaign was a missed opportunity to overhaul the whole set up (of course it's great we're still in with a chance of qualifying) and gave Stephen Kenny a free hit at blooding as many players into the set up as possible, while also implementing a style of play.

In the short to medium future it will most definitely get worse before it gets better, I said some time ago that while we may continue to grind out results against better opposition our luck will soon run out and we will then spend a number of years in the international wilderness. 

Let's look at the FAI perspective. 

All they care about is qualifying for Euro 2020 because Dublin is a host city, they don't care how Ireland qualify or who's in charge aslong they get there.

Things will most certainly get worse under Kenny because that's when the squad is under a transitional period. 

Which is short sighted beyond belief imo.

We are in essence delaying overhauling this group of players and style of play, which is way past it's sell by date for another 2 years at least.

We still won't qualify anyhow, I have seen nothing to suggest we can actually beat Denmark or Switzerland.


Realistically, 5 points should be enough to secure qualification (an away win in Georgia followed by 2 more draws). I fancy Denmark to beat the Swiss which could potentially see ourselves and the Danes only needing a point in our final game. A backdoor playoff is almost a certainty should we fail to make the top 2. Plenty of room for optimism and before we know it, Kenny will be heralding in the new era with some serious prospects coming through. The future looks bright
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

I really can't help but think that this qualifying campaign was a missed opportunity to overhaul the whole set up (of course it's great we're still in with a chance of qualifying) and gave Stephen Kenny a free hit at blooding as many players into the set up as possible, while also implementing a style of play.

In the short to medium future it will most definitely get worse before it gets better, I said some time ago that while we may continue to grind out results against better opposition our luck will soon run out and we will then spend a number of years in the international wilderness. 

Let's look at the FAI perspective. 

All they care about is qualifying for Euro 2020 because Dublin is a host city, they don't care how Ireland qualify or who's in charge aslong they get there.

Things will most certainly get worse under Kenny because that's when the squad is under a transitional period. 

Which is short sighted beyond belief imo.

We are in essence delaying overhauling this group of players and style of play, which is way past it's sell by date for another 2 years at least.

We still won't qualify anyhow, I have seen nothing to suggest we can actually beat Denmark or Switzerland.

At a base level, not qualifying for the European Championships has now become something for the minow and the unlucky few. With 32 teams you really need to be qualifying. The WC is a little more hit and miss as you are competing, more often than not, for play-off positions. The WC therefore becomes a less reachable goal, and is likely to be seen as a more palatable “free hit”.

I also think that we are assuming way too much about what Kenny would like to do. For arguments sake, say many of the current squad enjoy a good season at club level. Into the bargain, if we qualify for Euro 2020. Between the two, it gives the vast majority of our existing squad a good claim at being retained in the post McCarthy era. Events and intentions may conspire to make Kenny a different Senior Team manager than we might expect.

We're only delaying the inevitable by trudging along with the way things are, I would rather sacrifice this campaign (I don't give us much hope of qualifying anyhow) which would put at least 2 years early into the development plan of overhauling the whole set up than going into a World Cup campaign with a mix of kids who aren't ready and still have the masses of journeymen making squads.

Personally, I didn't want Kenny (felt we could have gotten a better manager/coach) on the continent given the wages we throw about but I still feel he has a definite style of play and I'm ok with him being given a chance to at least show us what he can do.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUBLIN DOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 1:53pm
Jaysus there is more shoite been spouted today than there was during the game last night LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by DUBLIN DOC DUBLIN DOC wrote:

Jaysus there is more shoite been spouted today than there was during the game last night LOL

What did I tell you about getting off your phone Doc LOL

Take some paracetamol and go again Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

I really can't help but think that this qualifying campaign was a missed opportunity to overhaul the whole set up (of course it's great we're still in with a chance of qualifying) and gave Stephen Kenny a free hit at blooding as many players into the set up as possible, while also implementing a style of play.

In the short to medium future it will most definitely get worse before it gets better, I said some time ago that while we may continue to grind out results against better opposition our luck will soon run out and we will then spend a number of years in the international wilderness. 

Let's look at the FAI perspective. 

All they care about is qualifying for Euro 2020 because Dublin is a host city, they don't care how Ireland qualify or who's in charge aslong they get there.

Things will most certainly get worse under Kenny because that's when the squad is under a transitional period. 

Which is short sighted beyond belief imo.

We are in essence delaying overhauling this group of players and style of play, which is way past it's sell by date for another 2 years at least.

We still won't qualify anyhow, I have seen nothing to suggest we can actually beat Denmark or Switzerland.

At a base level, not qualifying for the European Championships has now become something for the minow and the unlucky few. With 32 teams you really need to be qualifying. The WC is a little more hit and miss as you are competing, more often than not, for play-off positions. The WC therefore becomes a less reachable goal, and is likely to be seen as a more palatable “free hit”.

I also think that we are assuming way too much about what Kenny would like to do. For arguments sake, say many of the current squad enjoy a good season at club level. Into the bargain, if we qualify for Euro 2020. Between the two, it gives the vast majority of our existing squad a good claim at being retained in the post McCarthy era. Events and intentions may conspire to make Kenny a different Senior Team manager than we might expect.

We're only delaying the inevitable by trudging along with the way things are, I would rather sacrifice this campaign (I don't give us much hope of qualifying anyhow) which would put at least 2 years early into the development plan of overhauling the whole set up than going into a World Cup campaign with a mix of kids who aren't ready and still have the masses of journeymen making squads.

Personally, I didn't want Kenny (felt we could have gotten a better manager/coach) on the continent given the wages we throw about but I still feel he has a definite style of play and I'm ok with him being given a chance to at least show us what he can do.



The issue is that while we have a lot of talented youth, it is still just talented youth. Not to go back over old ground, but Declan Rice was a PL regular at 18. Many of the lads we are placing good stock in are of similar age and are yet to break into their respective first team. Josh Cullen (who is a few years older than Rice) for example, is liked by Pellegrini and has done well in the lower leagues, but he has never progressed beyond the bench in the PL. Connell, Kelleher Parrott etc are yet to make a major breakthrough this term. Nathan Collins is a good hope, but he is actually a natural in a position that we are generally covered in. Idah and knight look like they will be important to their club this term, but this is their first.

Somebody drew the comparison with Wales and players like Ben Woodburn. Ampadu is an exception, but he has not been exactly revolutionary. Harry Wilson was initially capped at international level on reputation alone, but that was a different time for Welsh football.

Also, while the rebuild may not be long term, I’m surprised people don’t see the extent to which the people actually playing are fairly different to what was played in MON’s final year. So there has been
Something of a rebuild.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by The White Cafu The White Cafu wrote:

Looked to be a scrap in the middle of 114 at half time lastnight, anyone see what happened??
 
One lad liked Tayto. Another chap preferred King.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Hoskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 2:16pm
In with a chance of qualification with three games to go, didn't think we'd be in that position. Mick has the team set up defensively like O'Neill with them given a bit of licence to play some football, which happens fleetingly. 

It happens fleetingly as we are a very limited team. Take Whelan he has been our best midfielder this campaign, and he's 36.

Denmark and Switzerland are reaching the knock outs of the World Cup standard, we are miles away from that. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

I really can't help but think that this qualifying campaign was a missed opportunity to overhaul the whole set up (of course it's great we're still in with a chance of qualifying) and gave Stephen Kenny a free hit at blooding as many players into the set up as possible, while also implementing a style of play.

In the short to medium future it will most definitely get worse before it gets better, I said some time ago that while we may continue to grind out results against better opposition our luck will soon run out and we will then spend a number of years in the international wilderness. 

Let's look at the FAI perspective. 

All they care about is qualifying for Euro 2020 because Dublin is a host city, they don't care how Ireland qualify or who's in charge aslong they get there.

Things will most certainly get worse under Kenny because that's when the squad is under a transitional period. 

Which is short sighted beyond belief imo.

We are in essence delaying overhauling this group of players and style of play, which is way past it's sell by date for another 2 years at least.

We still won't qualify anyhow, I have seen nothing to suggest we can actually beat Denmark or Switzerland.

At a base level, not qualifying for the European Championships has now become something for the minow and the unlucky few. With 32 teams you really need to be qualifying. The WC is a little more hit and miss as you are competing, more often than not, for play-off positions. The WC therefore becomes a less reachable goal, and is likely to be seen as a more palatable “free hit”.

I also think that we are assuming way too much about what Kenny would like to do. For arguments sake, say many of the current squad enjoy a good season at club level. Into the bargain, if we qualify for Euro 2020. Between the two, it gives the vast majority of our existing squad a good claim at being retained in the post McCarthy era. Events and intentions may conspire to make Kenny a different Senior Team manager than we might expect.
24 teams for euros unless i got it wrong
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

I really can't help but think that this qualifying campaign was a missed opportunity to overhaul the whole set up (of course it's great we're still in with a chance of qualifying) and gave Stephen Kenny a free hit at blooding as many players into the set up as possible, while also implementing a style of play.

In the short to medium future it will most definitely get worse before it gets better, I said some time ago that while we may continue to grind out results against better opposition our luck will soon run out and we will then spend a number of years in the international wilderness. 

Let's look at the FAI perspective. 

All they care about is qualifying for Euro 2020 because Dublin is a host city, they don't care how Ireland qualify or who's in charge aslong they get there.

Things will most certainly get worse under Kenny because that's when the squad is under a transitional period. 

Which is short sighted beyond belief imo.

We are in essence delaying overhauling this group of players and style of play, which is way past it's sell by date for another 2 years at least.

We still won't qualify anyhow, I have seen nothing to suggest we can actually beat Denmark or Switzerland.

At a base level, not qualifying for the European Championships has now become something for the minow and the unlucky few. With 32 teams you really need to be qualifying. The WC is a little more hit and miss as you are competing, more often than not, for play-off positions. The WC therefore becomes a less reachable goal, and is likely to be seen as a more palatable “free hit”.

I also think that we are assuming way too much about what Kenny would like to do. For arguments sake, say many of the current squad enjoy a good season at club level. Into the bargain, if we qualify for Euro 2020. Between the two, it gives the vast majority of our existing squad a good claim at being retained in the post McCarthy era. Events and intentions may conspire to make Kenny a different Senior Team manager than we might expect.
24 teams for euros unless i got it wrong

Sorry. You’re right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terzino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 2:33pm
Similar game to Copenhagen. A decent first-half followed by a passive second one with too many aimless long balls, giving easy possession to the Swiss. But once again the players ended the game on the up and got an equaliser.

We need to keep trying to pass the ball when it comes to the second half of games. When we mix a bit of passing with a direct game we are better. We are too easy to play against when we resort to long balls all the time.

And leaving Long out was the wrong call. His work-rate alone is too good for him not to be part of the set-up. And I think him and McGoldrick could form a good partnership, if given the chance.

Overall, if we could add a bit of quality to the great defensive work, and never say die attitude of the players, we'd be in the driving seat for qualification. 

As it stands, I think we need someone to do us a favour to get one of the top two spots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gufct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 2:34pm
Some people are going to be very disappointed ifStephennKenny doesn’t have us playing like Brazil and qualifying for finals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUBLIN DOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Some people are going to be very disappointed ifStephennKenny doesn’t have us playing like Brazil and qualifying for finals.
Do you mean all the experts on here gufct ? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUBLIN DOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by DUBLIN DOC DUBLIN DOC wrote:

Jaysus there is more shoite been spouted today than there was during the game last night LOL

What did I tell you about getting off your phone Doc LOL

Take some paracetamol and go again Clap
Another hour and a half and that’s the plan Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GB 1HughJarse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by The White Cafu The White Cafu wrote:

Pyro ClapClapClapClap

Looked to be a scrap in the middle of 114 at half time lastnight, anyone see what happened??

The beers taps stopped working at halftime up in 519.....there was a serious run on Fanta and Tayto until they got them running again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

I really can't help but think that this qualifying campaign was a missed opportunity to overhaul the whole set up (of course it's great we're still in with a chance of qualifying) and gave Stephen Kenny a free hit at blooding as many players into the set up as possible, while also implementing a style of play.

In the short to medium future it will most definitely get worse before it gets better, I said some time ago that while we may continue to grind out results against better opposition our luck will soon run out and we will then spend a number of years in the international wilderness. 

World Cup 2014 Qualifying - 0 wins from 6 games against Germany, Sweden and Austria
Euro 2016 Qualifying - 1 win from 6 games against Germany, Poland and Scotland
World Cup 2018 Qualifying - 2 wins from 6 games against Serbia, Wales and Austria
Euro 2020 Qualifying - 0 from 2 games Denmark and Switzerland

3 wins in 20 games against the better sides in our qualifying groups.

4 wins in 24 games if you include play off games against Bosnia and Denmark.

The odd victory and plucky draws will start turning into defeats very very soon and I would be shocked if we took anything off Denmark or Switzerland in our last two games.



I never really understand the qualifying 'free hit' type mentality. Why would that be a good idea? Surely the aim is to qualify for tournaments? I for one hate watching the World cup or Euros with us sitting at home. We are in a good position in the group and it is entirely possible we could go into the last game against Denmark at home needing a win to qualify. Considering where we were a year ago that would be an excellent campaign and who would write us off taking revenge on the cocky Danes? 

It's rather simple to grasp, no?

We play a putrid brand of football, constantly riding our luck in games (nabbing draws especially) and are showing no signs of evolving with the majority of the rest of Europe in our style of play.

Seeing as we have an array of really good young players coming through, do you honestly think they'll be ready to slot straight in the first 11 in just over a years time when we're looking to replace a lot of the players who simply aren't of the required standard?

The bigger picture here is that if we don't qualify for Euro 2020 it will be read 2 tournaments qualified for in 18 years.

But aye, once we're grinding out draws and blagging the odd win against sides around our ranking or higher is going to come back to bite us in the arse.

I understand the point but I don't understand the mentality. We have the spine of a team whilst the rest can be phased out. For instance the back 5 bar Keogh has a few campaigns left. In midfield Robinson has broken through- Hendrick and Hourihane are in their late 20's as is McCarthy if he could stay fit. Sure up front we are very light but McGoldrick has probably been our best player over the course of the campaign so far. Hogan may offer something going forward. The playing style is based on pragmatism at the moment. Hopefully Kenny who showed in Europe with Dundalk he can be pragmatic and punch above the teams weight will operate the same type of way. Whilst also hoping to see better football we still won't play like Barcelona. A 'free hit' of a campaign with absolutely no guarantee that a) it would be successful or b) that it would lead to better results long term I don't understand that. 
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 3:32pm
While watching the game last night I was thinking to myself, maybe it wasn’t just trap or o’neills fault.
I do think we are a bit more positive under Mick but our biggest shortcomings are nothing tactic related, it’s the players. Some of our players struggle to control basic passes. So everything is much more laboured and forceful, rather than slick.
You can’t fault the players, they give it their all apart from henderick who I think is too much of a passenger at times. He can be great in bursts, which makes it even more frustrating. 

I think if we had one top level central midfielder we would be so much better. Not sure who that player could be even looking at the U21.
Did like that guy hodge. Imagine we had Rice and Grealish still, think that would be the difference between being a distant 3rd best in the group vs being the best or close enough 





Edited by t_rAndy - 06 Sep 2019 at 3:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 3:37pm
Trap - dinosaur.
O'Neill - dinosaur
McCarthy - dinosaur
Kenny - no dinosaur -

Kenny who is going to turn a bunch of potential youngsters (who mostly have never played a senior game of football in their lives (plying their trade for teams outside top divisions)) into this tiki taka, creative and dynamic team who will out play players who have been performing at the top levels of football for years.




Edited by horsebox - 06 Sep 2019 at 3:38pm
     
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