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International standard and Ireland

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    Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 3:00pm
Just watched Australia. They did well against France, I don't think they have a squad much better than ours, possibly even worse and that's saying something, but they seemed to have a solid plan in both of their games so far, and hung onto the ball and played some good stuff.
Morocco and Iran looked quite good at times too. The only team I've seen who were really appalling that I can think of are Saudi Arabia.
How far behind have we drifted in terms of world football? We stank Euro 2012 out of it, must have been one of the worst teams to ever qualify, failed to beat a hapless Sweden in 2016, and got tonked by Belgium. You can't really read into that Italy game much given it was a non event for them.
Does anyone actually think we could have been competitive at this world cup or played any decent football at all? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 3:06pm
This tournament has convinced me more than ever that you can play a defensive game without sacrificing playing football. Iran last night played a defensive (and highly cynical game), but made five or six chances against a vastly superior Spanish team, who needed a serious stroke of luck to win the game. Australia have also turned a very limited team into a competent one who might actually sneak into the last 16 of the tournament.

In the last year we have made Georgia look like Brazil, capitulated against Denmark, taken one point off two ten man teams, and took a win over Wales who were missing their World Class striker and their midfield enforcer. But much of that is about the tactics employed.


Edited by Het-field - 21 Jun 2018 at 3:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShamtheRam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by Icy Bread People Icy Bread People wrote:

Just watched Australia. They did well against France, I don't think they have a squad much better than ours, possibly even worse and that's saying something, but they seemed to have a solid plan in both of their games so far, and hung onto the ball and played some good stuff.
Morocco and Iran looked quite good at times too. The only team I've seen who were really appalling that I can think of are Saudi Arabia.
How far behind have we drifted in terms of world football? We stank Euro 2012 out of it, must have been one of the worst teams to ever qualify, failed to beat a hapless Sweden in 2016, and got tonked by Belgium. You can't really read into that Italy game much given it was a non event for them.
Does anyone actually think we could have been competitive at this world cup or played any decent football at all? 
Are you judging your analysis of Australia compared to Ireland based on the friendly last month when Ireland literally had a squad thrown together playing against France's best squad available???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote inlikeflynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 3:14pm
I think we would have performed at this World Cup as expectations would have been low. I would expect getting through the group stages on two draws and one win, then going out.

Few managers have the experience of World Cups that MON has. A few rising players grateful for the opportunity, and an understanding of the achievement that qualification in itself was, thereby removing the pressure to perform, I would think we would have acquitted ourselves well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbrady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 3:15pm
we are not that far behind tbh. we beat and drew with germany in euro qualifying and we ran france close in the euros much like the australians a few days ago.  The Denmark result was disappointing but we rarely lose a competitive game by more than one goal and are nearly always in with a shout of qualifying for tournaments going into the last game of qualifiers. I don't think the likes of iran or egypt would do as well if they had to qualify through europe. I say we would have been similar to Australia...tough to beat maybe have got a draw and finished 3rd in the group, maybe scraping through if we got a kind group.

Edited by Barbrady - 21 Jun 2018 at 3:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 3:17pm
This is Iran last night:



And they still made chances.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icy Bread People Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by ShamtheRam ShamtheRam wrote:

Are you judging your analysis of Australia compared to Ireland based on the friendly last month when Ireland literally had a squad thrown together playing against France's best squad available???

Wasn't thinking of that game at all, that was a meaningless friendly. The Georgia game, Wales away, most of our games really, we are just bloody awful. I can't recall watching a less attractive style of football. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mandrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 3:39pm
I think would a more professional outfit than the north African / Saudi teams...
we would have better finishers ............ more techical players than oz but we have the same determination as them and a better overall plan than all those teams.. no mad throw-ins either... yeah we would be competitive... I always think that... look at Serbia, they needed a set piece even though they went round the pitch like they owned it,, we were a point behind them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShamtheRam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 3:42pm
Iran had 32% possession last night...they were in no way world beaters. If Ireland consistently played like they did we'd be up in arms. It's unfair to judge Ireland in a competition that they are not involved in. World Cups are different to normal tournaments. Intensity levels and adrenaline go up on every team...Ireland would be no different.
 
The carry on of the Iran players during the game too was pathetic. Time wasting at 0-0 and throwing themselves down at every opportunity. Even Ireland don't go to those extremes.
 
Based on what I've seen so far at this World Cup and based what I've said above I think Ireland would have competed well at this World Cup. However, people need to realise we are by no means world beaters with a depth of talent to start playing the likes of Spain or Brazil off the park.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 3:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriMurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

This tournament has convinced me more than ever that you can play a defensive game without sacrificing playing football. Iran last night played a defensive (and highly cynical game), but made five or six chances against a vastly superior Spanish team, who needed a serious stroke of luck to win the game. Australia have also turned a very limited team into a competent one who might actually sneak into the last 16 of the tournament.

In the last year we have made Georgia look like Brazil, capitulated against Denmark, taken one point off two ten man teams, and took a win over Wales who were missing their World Class striker and their midfield enforcer. But much of that is about the tactics employed.

Firstly, to be fair to Ireland, Ireland also beat Wales while missing arguably their only world-class player in Seamus Coleman, and playing Daryl 'Maradona' Murphy up front. I have plenty of criticisms about the Irish team, but there's no need to belittle a fine away win. 

I could just as easily surmise that Georgia beat Ireland while they were lacking Seamus Coleman, ergo Serbia aren't that good. 

Now secondly, the thing that really propels a successful defensive team is not only their defensiveness. I think there's a bit of a delusion going on among Irish fans that if only we had the right manager, he could beat our motley crew of Championship stalwarts and EPL can't-quite-get-a-game-guys into masters of the 1-0 victory. The fact is, I think, is that while a manager can come in to give shape and direction to a team, unless he has one or two really special players to build his team around, then what he's building is less of a lasting edifice in the history of football and more of a sandcastle, a house of cards waiting to be knocked over, because a team without that spine has little resiliency. You watch Ireland go a goal down to a half decent team and you're all to often left wondering what answer they have. 

So until Ireland have another Duff and another Roy & Robbie Keane to really lead the team and power them along, overachieving and having the bubble burst might be as good as it gets.  
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We have no international standard central midfielders or strikers. 

We’ve probably a better all round team than Australia, but the likes of Mooy, Jedinak and even Rogic are the type of energetic midfielders that we lack. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote houghton88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 3:59pm
We are worse than every single team in the World Cup. Those that argue otherwise need to take off the green tinted glasses and be realistic for a few minutes. 

And it isnt going to change in the near future either. Ive accepted that and made my peace with it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icy Bread People Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by ShamtheRam ShamtheRam wrote:

Iran had 32% possession last night...they were in no way world beaters

Isn't that about normal for us though, when we play anyone above the standard of say Gibraltar? 

It makes you think though. Look at 2002. With our grit and passion (sorry for the cliches), and 2 or 3 good quality players, you could certainly get to a QF in a World Cup. Our 2002 team with Roy could make a strong impact on this World Cup. I really hope we get another generation of that ilk in my lifetime. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by Icy Bread People Icy Bread People wrote:

Just watched Australia. They did well against France, I don't think they have a squad much better than ours, possibly even worse and that's saying something, but they seemed to have a solid plan in both of their games so far, and hung onto the ball and played some good stuff.
Morocco and Iran looked quite good at times too. The only team I've seen who were really appalling that I can think of are Saudi Arabia.
How far behind have we drifted in terms of world football? We stank Euro 2012 out of it, must have been one of the worst teams to ever qualify, failed to beat a hapless Sweden in 2016, and got tonked by Belgium. You can't really read into that Italy game much given it was a non event for them.
Does anyone actually think we could have been competitive at this world cup or played any decent football at all? 


Tiurnament football is different. Australia were pretty poor during qualification- Saudi Arabia topped their section. The Aussies needed 2 play offs to qualify. In a world cup though everyones performance level does go up. Last night Iran were very good. They showed you can be defensive but still create. I don't think our problem is that we are defensive. It is that we have no gameplan when we have the ball. Defensively we are usually very good. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Floreat Ultonia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by Barbrady Barbrady wrote:

we rarely lose a competitive game by more than one goal

You've lost five by three or more since the last time NI did, in Euro 2012 qualifying.

Quote and are nearly always in with a shout of qualifying for tournaments going into the last game of qualifiers. I don't think the likes of iran or egypt would do as well if they had to qualify through europe

It's almost impossible to compare the 4th or 5th best team in Asia or Africa with the 14th or 15th in Europe- they never play each other in competition
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 4:15pm
Australia changed manager when they were underperforming. Their current manager took charge of his first competitive game V France.

So talking about their performances in qualifying isn't so straightforward.

All this has shown me is just how negative and poor the setup was vs a bang average side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Australia changed manager when they were underperforming. Their current manager took charge of his first competitive game V France.

So talking about their performances in qualifying isn't so straightforward.

All this has shown me is just how negative and poor the setup was vs a bang average side.

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