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Glenn Whelan

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MacMathuna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 4:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Aside of all the hilarity, the answer is, as so often, somewhere in between.
Whelan has never been the best player in the world, but in realising his own limitations and working hard at what he was good at it he has had a very respectable career. It took me a while to get what he brought, but it seems so did fans of Stoke where he was a cornerstone of a very successful era. Lots of people like to use games where he didn’t play and Ireland were successful to bash him with, Italy seemingly a favourite, but you could do the opposite too. He was excellent in Gelsenkirchen and I still believe it would have finished scoreless had he remained on the pitch. (Still, it worked out great in the end). That is far too much of a simplification either way.

Apart from the new man at Hearts, he seems to have been very much a manager’s player. He seems ideally suited to coaching himself as he is disciplined, determined and hard working. He seems to despise the limelight, a rarity in the modern player, whilst keeping a personality. 

The stick he gets is not his fault, even if some of it is accurate. He probably knows himself better than anyone that some of the other options are better than him, but none of them are as reliable. McCarthy wanted time to be fit, which was understandable. Molimby, Cullen and whoever else you like are only coming to the level needed. Arter isn’t interested. Many are also meek as a mouse on the pitch and, given we have a dearth of midfield ability, leadership is important. 

More than any of that is the fact that football managers are innately conservative, particularly when their backs are to the wall. Bar a handful of true greats, and a couple of lucky spoofers,none have made seismic changes at key times. This is even more true in international football and even more so again for teams at our level. Every game we play is either a pointless friendly, a must win against a team worse than us or trying to nick a draw against teams better than us.

Teams like Wales, that were mentioned so often on here once that I used to think I was in the wrong forum, brought a team through together, but they needed the right players coming through and a manager like Toshack who accepted being the fall guy for the greater good.
We have appointed a succession of managers whose job it is to qualify, or come as close as possible. In Mick’s case it was absolute.They cannot be blamed for not developing players when the remit was never to do so. Which is why Whelan is still being talked about.

Essentially, he is nowhere near as bad as he is made out, even now when he is in his last innings as a player, but I can see why he becomes an easy target for those who want us to try and develop longer term. The game has changed and the role he has made a career of is almost obsolete. In many ways he is reflective of our last three managers: past his seek-by date and unable to change. Like them, he has also usually been the best available to us. Especially given the remit.

Well balanced and a good read.

Can a MOD delete this and ban PM for a week. There is absolutely no need for this carry on around here.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 6:42pm
No. i think hilarity like that provided above by PM is sometimes required after pages and pages of nothing but insightful, educational, knowledgable and unbiased posts from the numerous keyboard tacticians/footballing geniuses that are kind enough to humbly grace us with their presence and share their know it all unquestionable opinions, sorry not opinions but facts with us. 

As such, i’ll personally let PMs post slide on this occasion, however I promise to keep an eye on him from now on.


Edited by Sham157 - 25 Jan 2020 at 6:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daithi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 1:49pm
PM have you done your coaching badges, because you have turned into a managerial genius all of a sudden Wink
Just because it's tradition does not make it right
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 hours 41 minutes ago at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Post far too balanced PM, that won't do ya any good around here. 

Games we've played without Whelan since Euros 2016; 
Georgia home, (Whelan came on at 80mins). Midfield McCarthy & Hendrick. Won 1-0 (Coleman)- awful game. 
Austria away- Whelan went off after 22 mins. Midfield Hendrick, Arter Hoolahan, Whelan (replaced by Meyler). Won 0-1, possibly one of our best performances under MON, and certainly Arter's. 
Iceland home friendly, midfield Hendrick, Hourihane. Lost 0-1. 
Mexico friendly, midfield Hourihane, O'Dowda, lost 3-1

We then drew with Georgia 1-1 away (Whelan started) which was the end for Whelan as a regular starter under MON. 

Serbia home, midfield Hoolahan, Meyler, Brady. Lost 0-1
Moldova home, midfield Hendrick, Hoolahan, Meyler. Won 2-0
Wales away, midfield Hendrick, Meyler, Arter. Won 0-1
Denmark away, midfield  Hendrick, Arter, Brady. Drew 0-0
Denmark home, midfield Meyler, Hendrick, Arter. Lost 1-5
Turkey away (friendly) , midfield Rice, Hourihane, Browne, Hendrick. Lost 0-1
France away (friendly), midfield Rice, Browne. Lost 0-2
USA home (friendly), midfield Rice, Hendrick, O'Dowda. Won 2-1
Wales away, midfield Hendrick, Hourihane, Christie (!!) Lost 1-4
Poland away (friendly) midfield Williams, Hendsrick. Drew 1-1
Denmark home, midfield Hendrick, Arter, O'Dowda. Drew 0-0
Wales away, midfield Hendrick, Arter, Christie (again !!) Lost 0-1
Denmark away, MON's last game. Midfield Hendrick, Brady, Christie. Drew 0-0

Then Mick comes in & re-instates Whelan. Results and performances have been much the same, ya could argue that there has been a marginal improvement.  One loss to Switzerland, struggling to beat lower ranked teams, and a rake of our customary draws. 

If Whelan is the singular problem, how come we played without him for 18 months (13 games) and managed to win 2 games in that time, Moldova at home and USA in a home friendly ? We all know MON lost the plot, but equally, not a single other midfielder nailed down a place in that time.  Even now, 2 years later, ya get a clear impression that Hourihane & Browne are really only hanging in there until the likes of Cullen, Molumby, Knight make the step up. 

Hendrick has been the other constant, but when ya look at all the others MON played there in that time, all unavailable to Mick for a variety of reasons, he has effectively replaced all of Brady, Arter, Meyler, Rice, Wes, Williams, Christie, O'Dowda as the 3rd midfielder with just one man, Conor Hourihane. Browne is usually first sub or occasional starter. 

I'll be clear, I don't think Whelan should be first choice or near it at this stage of his career, and a fit McCarthy would be a big upgrade on him for the upcoming games, but our problems run a fair bit deeper than that. 

Lads talking about modern holding midfielders, sound, but we don't have one as yet, neither do we have one who has proven they can even do a reasonable impression of one at international level (bar McCarthy). Expecting Molumby to turn up V Slovakia and then play like Fabinho or Kante is as unrealistic as expecting Whelan to score 2 and assist another one in a 3-0 away win. 

Whole thing needs a change, and Whelan retiring is certainly part of that change, but singling him out for 3 years worth of poor performances, half of them when he wasn't even playing, is ridiculous, especially when the other main fella there, Hendrick hasn't been any better and everyone else they've tried hasn't even managed to be as consistent as those 2. 


No idea why these ridiculous lines get trotted out? 

You really could argue that, we played well as a team for 90 minutes against Georgia at home and about 45 mins against Denmark. Our performances as a team this campaign were horrendous for the most part.

That isn't what I, Moleman or anyone else is saying at all. Whelan is just one of number of problems (be it personnel, tactics, management) that we could do with changing/tweaking. There isn't one poster on here who think's that all of our problems are isolated strictly to Whelan being in the team, it's absolute madness to even assume it. So why even say it?

Again no one has ever suggested the sort nor would anyone expect the changing of Whelan with Molumby or Cullen or McCarthy or whoever would in turn improve us as a team tenfold, but merely the changing of Whelan with one of the above would give us more energy in the holding midfield role and a bit more dynamism. 

It's all well and good making these assumptions but in truth, they're way off even if parts of your post are tongue in cheek.

If Glenn Whelan gets picked to start against Slovakia I will 100% support him and hope he does well, his commitment to the Irish cause is unbelievable and I have never once questioned it, all I'd like to see is a few personnel changes in the starting 11 and seeing us go out and have a proper go at Slovakia. 

Spot on post. Absolutely bizarre that anyone could take the commentary about Whelan on this thread from the past 5-10 years, and the question of him being replaced in the team, and spin it that Whelan is being singled out and that the belief is that the team will suddenly improve massively with his removal. Numerous Irish players get it in the neck on this forum and others. PM, with that supposedly brilliantly balanced post, any chance you could go onto the Jeff Hendrick thread and write such a balanced post?

Simple fact is that Whelans "success" at Stoke was in an exceptionally limited team. He had his role. He did it well. We have followed the path of the likes of Stoke for years now and played non football. That was our main tactic - let's make sure a game of actual football doesn't break out. 

I do find it funny that so many on this forum for the past few years (especially since the Danish WC play off defeat) have said they want to see us at least attempt to play positive football, and yet at the same time lots of the same people were happy to see Mick McCarthy come back and Whelan continue starting for us. It would be laughable if it wasn't so depressing.

This place is f*cking bizarre at the best of times, but the simple fact that so many on here cannot see what having a very slow holding midfielder does to our tactical setup is scary. It's just so basic. Yet many of those same folk will wonder then with Whelan on the pitch why we don't go pressing teams higher and making a right battle of matches. 



"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 hours 21 minutes ago at 5:24pm
What's amusing is that as soon as anyone goes against the grain they got shot down and are subjected to the most insightful replies such as being described as a keyboard manager/tactical genius/bringing up the fact lads may have done their coaching badges etc which has absolutely nothing got to do with the points being made.

As I've always said, the majority won't debate the point at hand and would rather stray off track to deflect away from giving a fair and balanced opinion on the actual topic!!

Like heaven forbid you try to debate a point and someone doesn't agree, isn't that what football forums are all about?

No one has ever suggested that Glenn Whelan starting for Ireland is the sole cause of all our problems, the sooner the better lads actually take that on board the better just because some of us would rather he was replaced in the team.

Again, I repeat that if Whelan is starting against Slovakia I hope he puts in a great performance that will help get us the win.


Edited by Green Devil - 17 hours 20 minutes ago at 5:25pm
"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"

Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gufct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 hours 55 minutes ago at 6:50pm
ye couldn’t stay away lads why don’t ye set up a WhatsApp group to keep yourselves happy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 hours 50 minutes ago at 6:55pm
Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

ye couldn’t stay away lads why don’t ye set up a WhatsApp group to keep yourselves happy.

Again, I repeat that if Whelan is starting against Slovakia I hope he puts in a great performance that will help get us the win.

What's wrong with what I posted? Especially the above? 
"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"

Eamonn Dunphy on Glenn Whelan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 hours 32 minutes ago at 7:13pm
All just my opinion but it's clear that this is Whelans last season, I get the feeling he would have retired at the end of last season if it were not for the euros this year.

He's not exactly looking for a final pay day at Hearts or Fleetwood, he would head to the USA for that.

I suspect the only reason he's still playing this season is so that he can end a reasonably good career in a green shirt. 

I get the impression he's making every effort to keep himself in contention for the games in march and if we qualify for the euros. 

Whether you think he should or shouldn't be picked for ireland is a different story but hats off to the guy for that.


Edited by Left foot - 15 hours 31 minutes ago at 7:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 50%lesssugar&salt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 hours 13 minutes ago at 7:32pm
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

All just my opinion but it's clear that this is Whelans last season, I get the feeling he would have retired at the end of last season if it were not for the euros this year.

He's not exactly looking for a final pay day at Hearts or Fleetwood, he would head to the USA for that.

I suspect the only reason he's still playing this season is so that he can end a reasonably good career in a green shirt. 

I get the impression he's making every effort to keep himself in contention for the games in march and if we qualify for the euros. 

Whether you think he should or shouldn't be picked for ireland is a different story but hats off to the guy for that.

That is a really good point. Think that it will be his last season. Would imagine pride would also have been a factor in not retiring after Hearts. No way to end a career.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 hours 32 minutes ago at 9:13pm
Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

ye couldn’t stay away lads why don’t ye set up a WhatsApp group to keep yourselves happy.

Shut down the forum. Up to now it was the ybig football manager comments that were up there for post of the year. It's been usurped though. Congratulations gufct on ybig post of the year Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 hours 28 minutes ago at 9:17pm
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

What's amusing is that as soon as anyone goes against the grain they got shot down and are subjected to the most insightful replies such as being described as a keyboard manager/tactical genius/bringing up the fact lads may have done their coaching badges etc which has absolutely nothing got to do with the points being made.

As I've always said, the majority won't debate the point at hand and would rather stray off track to deflect away from giving a fair and balanced opinion on the actual topic!!

Like heaven forbid you try to debate a point and someone doesn't agree, isn't that what football forums are all about?

No one has ever suggested that Glenn Whelan starting for Ireland is the sole cause of all our problems, the sooner the better lads actually take that on board the better just because some of us would rather he was replaced in the team.

Again, I repeat that if Whelan is starting against Slovakia I hope he puts in a great performance that will help get us the win.

Spot on. The standard of commentary on the thread is like something from junior infants. Barely a single point is debated, it's all about lads playing football manager etc. It is mortifying stuff from the majority on this thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fochie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 hours 59 minutes ago at 10:46pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Aside of all the hilarity, the answer is, as so often, somewhere in between.
Whelan has never been the best player in the world, but in realising his own limitations and working hard at what he was good at it he has had a very respectable career. It took me a while to get what he brought, but it seems so did fans of Stoke where he was a cornerstone of a very successful era. Lots of people like to use games where he didn’t play and Ireland were successful to bash him with, Italy seemingly a favourite, but you could do the opposite too. He was excellent in Gelsenkirchen and I still believe it would have finished scoreless had he remained on the pitch. (Still, it worked out great in the end). That is far too much of a simplification either way.

Apart from the new man at Hearts, he seems to have been very much a manager’s player. He seems ideally suited to coaching himself as he is disciplined, determined and hard working. He seems to despise the limelight, a rarity in the modern player, whilst keeping a personality. 

The stick he gets is not his fault, even if some of it is accurate. He probably knows himself better than anyone that some of the other options are better than him, but none of them are as reliable. McCarthy wanted time to be fit, which was understandable. Molimby, Cullen and whoever else you like are only coming to the level needed. Arter isn’t interested. Many are also meek as a mouse on the pitch and, given we have a dearth of midfield ability, leadership is important. 

More than any of that is the fact that football managers are innately conservative, particularly when their backs are to the wall. Bar a handful of true greats, and a couple of lucky spoofers,none have made seismic changes at key times. This is even more true in international football and even more so again for teams at our level. Every game we play is either a pointless friendly, a must win against a team worse than us or trying to nick a draw against teams better than us.

Teams like Wales, that were mentioned so often on here once that I used to think I was in the wrong forum, brought a team through together, but they needed the right players coming through and a manager like Toshack who accepted being the fall guy for the greater good.
We have appointed a succession of managers whose job it is to qualify, or come as close as possible. In Mick’s case it was absolute.They cannot be blamed for not developing players when the remit was never to do so. Which is why Whelan is still being talked about.

Essentially, he is nowhere near as bad as he is made out, even now when he is in his last innings as a player, but I can see why he becomes an easy target for those who want us to try and develop longer term. The game has changed and the role he has made a career of is almost obsolete. In many ways he is reflective of our last three managers: past his seek-by date and unable to change. Like them, he has also usually been the best available to us. Especially given the remit.
Good post that,Spot on.
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