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Paul McGrath
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Good Article
    Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 5:38am
from football 365...
 
Like McClaren, Staunton was offered a job that he wasn't qualified to take.

And, like McClaren, you can't blame him for taking it.

Blame instead should be apportioned to the men who handed Ferrari keys to the guys who had only driven a Skoda, or in Staunton's case, a milk float. Brian Barwick of the FA is culpable. John Delaney of the FAI even more so.

"World class," was how Delaney described Ireland's new management team on appointment. Bottom of the class, was how everyone else saw it; the inexperience of Staunton allied to the increasingly tenuous grip on reality of Sir Bobby Robson. Not that anyone's quite sure what Robson should be doing. 'His role has never been defined,' reported The Guardian back in February. 'He offers, he says, advice on selection and tactics, occasionally calls Staunton during a match on his mobile phone, and is rolled on to the airwaves to take the flak when the national team is in disgrace and its manager is hiding from the public.'

Disgrace is a word thrown around too much in football, but it's apt in this case. The Lonely Planet report quoted above hails the "famous ability of the Irish to find craic (fun times with convivial company) in boom or bust times". The empty seats at Croke Park on Wednesday night show what a bust time this is.
 
 

 


Edited by The Count - 19 Oct 2007 at 5:40am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 5:44am
here is a very good one
 

Ireland: A squad divided

 

Before the crunch qualifier with Slovakia in Bratislava in early September, the Irish players left their dressing room and climbed a flight of stairs where they were greeted by FAI security man Tony Hickey.

He was the last person they encountered before entering the playing surface and he exchanged warm handshakes with Robbie Keane and Shay Given and some of the other older players. There was even a bear hug for Kevin Kilbane.

Yet from some of the fresher faced members of the panel there was no reaction for Hickey. No handshake, no hug. A minor detail, perhaps, but symptomatic of the divide between old and new in this current squad, the unspoken reality of the Steve Staunton era.

This is no particular reflection on Hickey, who is popular with the players that have soldiered with him throughout the years, through the era of Mick McCarthy and Saipan, the World Cup and all the extras that went with it. Understandably, bonds were formed.

That is the past, however. And it was to the past that Staunton went when he was appointed as manager of Ireland. Hickey and Mick Byrne, cast out by Brian Kerr, were immediately restored to the mix. Famously, Byrne's return was kept secret until he leapt into Damien Duff's bedroom, waking him up with a hail of kisses. The good old days, indeed.

This was the contrast to the DVD addled days of Brian Kerr, where the players were bored to the point of mutinous. Stan, the old dressing room general, was bringing the fun back.

During the summer trip to the United States, he elaborated on how the general mood had been improved. "Well it's the little things", said Staunton, "The camaraderie, whether it be a quiz, a singsong, you name it. A keep ball session. The yellow jersey. Different things. They just add to it, and they've all grown to like it."

The spin was that the dressing room is now a happy place, where good vibrations are the order of the day. Kerr's dying embers were characterised by a flaccid, passionless display against Switzerland. Aside from the late flurry of activity, Wednesday's performance was equally devoid of this spirit and togetherness that was supposed to pull us through. It was eerily similar to that miserable night in Lansdowne against the Swiss.

And that's why the myth that everything is rosy in the Irish camp needs to be extinguished. For it is patently not the case. No pre-match huddle can disguise it. You don't have to scratch too far beneath the surface for a clear example of this, although Stephen Ireland is obviously an exceptional case. Beneath all the speculation and innuendo, numerous sources have confirmed that the Manchester City player was deeply unhappy in the Irish set-up prior to what could be his last game for some time in the green shirt -- the game against Slovakia.

He didn't appreciate the banter, most of which centred around suspicious developments regarding his hair. Even more alarmingly, he is understood to have approached senior players looking for a bit of help and was told that he was being too precious.

There are plenty more players with reason to be unsatisfied with their current lot -- those who have been victims of Staunton's ludicrous selection policy.

Somehow, within every squad, there appears to be thirteen or fourteen players named who are in genuine starting contention, a further seven or eight brought along to make up the numbers, and a couple in exile who come straight into the starting fold once summoned, thus making their initial absence inexplicable. You could forgive them for treading carefully on the red carpet in case it is laced with nails.

Exclusion

What must Liam Miller make of his exclusion from the initial selection for this double header when he was the man Staunton sent for in an emergency at half time on Wednesday night? What were the likes of Jonathan Douglas and Alan O'Brien, unused completely in those two games, doing there in the first place?

Rather than blooding young players methodically, Staunton has merely succeeding in throwing them to the lions before realising his error. Joey O'Brien was quickly sacrificed to make room for Miller on Wednesday. Andy Keogh was withdrawn to a polite reception.

He had endured two extremely ineffective games in an unfamiliar role. Practically being used as a convenient excuse. More worrying, however, are persistent whispers that some of the newer brigade and the stalwarts have not quite clicked. What we have now is a far more national team than we have had at any stage in recent memory but also a squad from a variety of backgrounds.

Not all of them have come through the hard grind of apprenticeship in English football, spending their lives in a sheltered environment. Instead, we have a more articulate breed, like Kevin Doyle, like Shane Long, like Stephen Hunt who are from different stock. Overnight sensations, if you will, but far more inclined to take responsibility for their mistakes. There's less of the spoofing.

Late on Wednesday night, Doyle admitted that aiming for third place in the group was not a task that anyone could get excited about. After another debacle against Cyprus, it was the least of their concerns. There's a bigger picture.

And this is where the issue of leadership comes to play, the whole root of the fallacy that this current Irish group are wholly united under one umbrella. The problem is that the manager is effectively still one of the lads.

Demeanour

All you have to do is watch the demeanour of Staunton and Keane at their frequently embarrassing pre-match press conferences. Watch as they sit side by side, with their arms folded, defensively poised. Sniggering at their own jokes, or the struggles of interpreters and questions from foreign sounding journalists. Not like manager and captain but as colleagues, as team-mates.

Like they once were. Add to the mix all the hangers on, like Byrne, with his cheerleading and feverish hugging after every game, and what we essentially have is a clique with the gaffer at the centre of it.

They are trying to recreate an atmosphere of days gone by, something that only those involved at the time can understand. It has failed miserably.

Of course, not everyone was too enamoured back in the good old days either.

There was another Keane that didn't really get it. A chap called Roy, you might have heard of him. He wasn't one for the sing-songs and neither, it seems, are quite a few of the current breed.

Not when so many are singing a different tune.

- Daniel McDonnell

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 5:56am
makes a few good points alright, interesting.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 8:25am

Great piece that, i agree with a lot of it - I have been trying not to respond and give my views as it really has annoyed me over the last few months travelling everywhere listening to excuse after excuse - so here goes (bear with me - a rant coming - this could go anywhere)

 
My views - some pretty obvious
 
Stan has been put in way above his depth - he was the walsall reserve manager or something similar - ffs
 
This is not his fault - he needed to learn before being given such a high importance job - but i don't blame him for taking it when offered - I would have - its a dream job for any irishman - half of us on here all pick our own team and debate them before games - he got offered the job and was brave enough to take it
 
He should also be brave enough to walk away now. 
 
I am annoyed at how things have gone as much as anyone - but i will never sl*g stan or personally abuse him (as some on here have) - He is still a footballing legend for Ireland and  generally A nice bloke
 
He came to the meeting of the London supporters club soon after his appointment and came across as a fan first and foremost, confident he would progress the team, and with his plan in mind.  He was honest and said he will need time.
 
Delaney was also there -  He spoke about how the FAI was developing the game in Ireland etc (all very impressive and with a lot of spin naturally) and also came across well, giving his full backing to Stan.  It was Delaney who labelled Stan and Bobby as a "World class management team" something which they clearly were not - he is responsible for this, but i also respect Delaney as the evidence is there at grass roots we are progressing with development of our under age teams
 
I think, like the article suggests that Stan tried to establish the fun old days of the charlton mccarthy days, a nicer atmosphere.   I met Stephen Reid at Cheltenham after the Sweden game and he was really positive about the new set up, felt he would get a chance with Stan that he never got with Kerr.
 
However, i think personally that this relaxed attitude will give the wrong impression to some new players who are alienated from experiencing that attittude in the past.  I am all for the team huddle, but the gushing of mick byrne with some of the lads, is embarrassing - obviously a nice bloke but its just a bit weird for me.  He seems to mother them, and reassure them how great they are.
 
These players should be proud and motivated playing for their country, like Hunty and Doyle, who were embarassed with the Cypriot performance.  They should not be molly coddled and hugged when they dont perform, they should be bollocked and let know how we feel, its not good enough.  (I don't agree in personally sl*gging or abusing players though - booing is also out - but then again what do we do to show our annoyance)
 
And that Hickey lad (i think he is just a hanger on really), another too pally with the old guard which alienates the new players.  (Have another issue with him which won't go into now)
 
In essence, as fans we are over optimistic with what we can achieve at this level.  Fans are fickle and impatiant at the best of times.  But it is Stans decisions which make me most annoyed.  Reid should have played more of a part in more of the games when fit, as he can do the basics right plus pick a pass, keep the ball when required.  What message did Stans decisons send out to the squad on Wednesday.  Here are a few of my views on certain players.
 
Given - as i have stated elsewhere at the end of the german game we had a lot of corners where we could have nicked a win - yet whilst Shay was prompting the players forward - Stan was instructing them to stay back to protect a point and our unbeaten record.  Shay at the end ignored stan coming off - our last hopes went out with a whimper
 
Kelly - looked out of his depth in the eastern europe games - would have  grown in confidence following german game - Promptly dropped
 
O'Brien - Playing right back for bolton - did a good job against germans - promptly put in centre mid on wed - poor and subbed made a scapegoat
 
Miller - Stan deemed him not good enough for initial squad - was not good enough to start instead of o'brien in centre midfield where he plays for his club - and then brought him on making o'brien a scapegoat.  also what message does this send to original centre midfield options in intial sqaud who were overlooked for a late call up.
 
keane - aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh where do i start.  we have scored 15 goals in this campaign - he has not scored against decent opposition for years - but undroppable by the gaffer as he made him captain.
 
keogh - does not play on wing - so why play him there?  McGeady needs confidence of beating players and looked good in last role against cyprus - should have started.
 
the squad has no depth - throw in the u21's as were not going to qualify now with results so far,  so give them a taste, make them hungry for success, like hunt, reid etc
 
All in all as we know, Stan needs to walk, we need to restructure from our u21's upwards, something kerr was interested in doing but the FAI would not give him this much power.  Although he was mighty cautious when we had the lead in games, we always went to the last game in the group with a chance.  He said himself, the players he felt most let down by were Keane and Duffer- players he developed but did not put it in for him, made men now with money.  All players are financially sound now so it is about pride in representing their country that counts, passion included.  Our U21's could bring in a few better players now, under the correct guidance.  We have a lot of potential there.  For me though, i would give one of the most qualified coaches in europe the job of developing the u21's - Chris Hughton. 
 
For senior manager i do not have a clue, we need to keep the sinking ship afloat, and fast.   Lets get an experienced name in, pay the money but have him working with the u21 manager.  Givens has been there too long, and what are the results, psising off players like connolly, stokes etc
 
I, like many others have been to every game for the past few years, and we have endured a lot of expense whilst watching a lot of sh*te.  We are the greatest optimists ever, believing we will qualify every year, but all i want is to see progress and us in with a chance still playing for soemthing at the end.  we did this in 2004 and 2006 qualifiers but its getting worse
 
playing for Pride is not enough, or a poxy home record.  The rankings count for fcuk all really, but it concerns me how far we have drifted since 2002 w.c.  We were nearly 10th or something like that, now were 32nd.  How has it got so bad when our stars of 2002 are at their peak?
 
Finally, i would like to say one more thing, apologies for the off on a tangent digressing nature of this thread. 
 
Stan, is without doubt a footballing legend for ireland, unfortunately he was given the dream job of managing the team he cared so passionately about and believed he could do it with, but his faith in players who simply have let us and him down has left him with no choice in my eyes. 
 
We wont keep paying out money with no performance or evidence of progress on show - It is time Stan left as now it is our faith that needs restoring
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Prendy - 19 Oct 2007 at 8:26am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 8:41am

great post prendy , fair play to ya

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 8:45am
points very well made and agrees with most Prendy. However I dont know Stan personally and he might be the nicest bloke in the world but all I know is that if he wasnt pushed out he would stay for the next 2 years. I take that as a personal insult to me and thousands of other Irish fans who pay through the nose to watch this cr*p home and away. That is why I think he is receiving abuse from all the Irish fans.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 8:49am
Can he claim the dole when he gets sacked??
This is our f**king country we're talking about - Keano

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 8:51am
he lives the UK , , might get rent allowance !
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 8:57am
do they not have the social?
This is our f**king country we're talking about - Keano

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 10:35am
He can queue up on a Tuesday for his Jobseekers Allowance!
Some excellent articles and posts in this thread lads
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 10:40am
One thing I know for a fact that he can't claim over in the UK is that he is a f**king good manager.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 10:55am
Good post prendy. i agree that stan is an irish footballing legend and i really hope he'll be remembered for his 100 or so caps instead of his managerial shambles but i dont think its too likely.
One other thing you mentioned about the 21's; i defo agree givens has had his day. from what ive been told the 21's is a joke of a team with givens having no authority over the lads and the players not having much respect for given; ie time to go. However you mention that givens p1ssed stokes off, that young fella is far from any angel and i'll be surprised if keane doesnt boot him out in the next few months. dont get me wrong, a decent talent but from what im hearing, not the right attitude
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 2:42pm
Great posts and comments all....

I think what it comes down to for me is that we need a real manager for the team... not a friend for some of the older players, not your drinking buddy.... no, a manager.  One that will say... Robbie... you are playing like crap... I am going to drop you to the sub list until your form improves... one that will drop O'Shea all together unless he actually makes an effort.  A manager that will look for the hungry players, who have pride in themselves and their country and will do whatever it takes to get a win. 

That is why I have always thought Roy Keane would do a great job (not that he would take it, or is ready for it) because with him Football is a business.  If you are not doing your job, someone else will. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2007 at 6:50pm
great posts and articles all round. I'd have to agree with the bulk of them as I think we all do. Looks like we'll get our wish of Stan goin but I dont think Delaney is in any danger of gettin the chop as well.
Did anyone hear Tony cascarino on the last word last night when asked about David O'Leary becoming manager? He was less than enthusiastic. But then I know there's history between the pair of them. What about Martin Jol? at least he might get Keane to start hittin the onion sack again
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2007 at 11:16am
I don't know what Stokes is like but his missus is F***ing lovely!

I ended up walking down to Croke on wednesday. She had never been before and didn't know where she was going. Was in a corporate box in the Cusack stand, probably with other WAGS. Good craic, she was, gave her a bit of gip for being a Dub that needed an Antrim man to show her how to get to Croker!

Some look from the rest of the lads in Gills when i headed by there with her! She only told me she was Stokes' girl when i got her to the Cusack stand....ah..women!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2007 at 1:57pm
 
"Blame instead should be apportioned to the men who handed Ferrari keys to the guys who had only driven a Skoda, or in Staunton's case, a milk float. Brian Barwick of the FA is culpable. John Delaney of the FAI even more so"
 
a good line from the article..the writer must have been reading the player toptrumps with Dougal driving Pat Mustards milk floatLOL
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