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t_rAndy View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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Points: 26218 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by sausy sausy wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Banks are fecking stealing from us for the past year with not passing on the increased interest rates on savings. And no one in power or the regulator challenging them on it. 
Then the bankers (mates of the politicians and the regulator no doubt) getting their bonuses for the profits the banks are making….based on the back of them making huge profits on the interest rate increases that they are not passing on.

I’m just using any extra money to pay off loans versus sticking them in savings. 



No bank here has been allowed pay bonuses while the Government have had a stake in them and ceilings put on salaries too.

Before 2008 and the crash savings rates were closely inline with ECB so you would have expected them to rise again in recent times. However long term lending rates are going very low at the moment so ECB being predicted to fall so savings rates could be a mute point very soon. Another SSIA to counter inflation would be great!!

I believe they eased those restrictions this year so they can get bonuses again. 
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Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane


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Points: 26218 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by dotts101 dotts101 wrote:

if they pass on the deposit rate then it means the mortgage interest rates will go up. They pnly passed on half or less than half of the mortgage rate increases from ECB.
So do you prefer to make money from savings or pay more for your mortgage, try and find a balance and thats what they would be doing.

They did already increase the mortgage rates but kept savings mostly at the same rate or very marginal increase. 
And they always anyway had a higher rate than the ECB and other European banks. So they are milking it from both sides.
More competition from outside the big two is needed.
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We also had one of the lowest mortgage rates in Europe for much of the last year, rather that than the saving being higher. 

Regulator can't force a bank to have higher savings rate, it's not what they're there for. 
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You Tell Me View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

For cultural reasons repossessions are not popular in Ireland. As a result culturally people would prefer people stay in their homes than savers make money out of spare income.  The banks and the system know this.  This is not as much the case in the UK.  Even during the property crash here the amount of repossessions was small compared to what you would expect after such a huge property crash.  

To be honest I think it's just an excuse used by the Irish banks to not increase their savings rates and cream off the resulting profits. It's a cosy cartel because the small number of main banks are so dominant. The UK has loads of challenger banks so if your usual bank isn't paying a good interest rate there are plenty of others you can move to instead. Mostly with ridiculous names live Beehive, Chip and Cahoot, but they do the job. Often wonder why one or two of them don't set up a small savings only operation in Ireland and shake the market up a bit.

Well as a previous poster has said the banks have not passed on the interest rate hikes for mortgages like our European counterparts,  not at the same rate anyway. 

The reason other banks are not in the market or have left is for the reason I said in that it’s hard to kick people out of houses if they can’t pay their mortgage. As a result they left and also we have a state owned bank in AIB.  

Banks only really make a profit by lending at a more expensive rate then they give for savings and that difference must cover overheads/profits etc.  

Not sure how a bank could make money if they only did saving only.  How would they generate income? 

They would use the Irish arm of their business to generate cash flow through savings deposit at, say as a ballpark example, 3% easy access or 4% on a fixed term. This is less than they would pay out in interest in the UK.

Their income would be generated by continuing/expanding their lending business in their main market - Britain. The savings only bank in Ireland would exist purely to give them a source of cheaper funding.

This isn't a new concept - US bank Goldman Sachs have for a few years now had a savings only bank in the UK, called Marcus.
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Robbie Keane
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Obviously the power of the two pillar banks puts them off. The Irish banking sector has shrunk considerably and new players are not exactly jumping at the chance to enter it.  
AKA pedantic kunt
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dotts101 View Drop Down
Liam Brady
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Points: 1674 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dotts101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2023 at 7:53am
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

What can't mortgage payers pay the going rate for their mortgages and savers get the going rate for their savings? Why should savers be effectively paying for other people's mortgages?

In the UK the Bank of England base rate is currently 5.25% and you can get over 5% annual interest in an instant access savings account from multiple providers. Close to 6% is available on a 12 month fixed rate. 

The ECB rate isn't as high as the Bank of England rate so you wouldn't expect those numbers in Ireland but bank rates should be keeping pace with the ECB rate and they're nowhere near. Then on top of that, again unlike in the UK, any interest you do earn is taxed in it's entirety. Absolute daylight robbery.

So ECB jumped rates by 4.5% banks passed on average 1.75-2%. Doing well to get a rate below 4% these days.
Can't remember where i read it but once you go over 5% banks see a big increase in impairments and customers strughling to make repayments.
So from a business sense why would you want your primary income earner at risk? Therefore if you keep the rates as low as possible you help protect against this.
Whereas for savings there are options to invest and get a return higher than what it is.
We talk about a cost of living crisis and putting mortgage rates up will only impact people even worse, will stop people being able to buy so they could be stuck in rental which we know is in short supply, then have the risk of becoming homeless if landlord decides to sell then become further dependent on the state.
Now don't get me wrong before all the rate increases, no excuse for not being lower mortgage rates and were amongst highest in europe as far as i'm aware this is no longer the case
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Jack Charlton
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Points: 6968 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sausy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2023 at 10:03am
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Originally posted by sausy sausy wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Banks are fecking stealing from us for the past year with not passing on the increased interest rates on savings. And no one in power or the regulator challenging them on it. 
Then the bankers (mates of the politicians and the regulator no doubt) getting their bonuses for the profits the banks are making….based on the back of them making huge profits on the interest rate increases that they are not passing on.

I’m just using any extra money to pay off loans versus sticking them in savings. 



No bank here has been allowed pay bonuses while the Government have had a stake in them and ceilings put on salaries too.

Before 2008 and the crash savings rates were closely inline with ECB so you would have expected them to rise again in recent times. However long term lending rates are going very low at the moment so ECB being predicted to fall so savings rates could be a mute point very soon. Another SSIA to counter inflation would be great!!

I believe they eased those restrictions this year so they can get bonuses again. 


Zero easing of the rules. BOI has no state involvement anymore so they may be free to look at salaries but the rest with a state shareholdings are still under restructions.
Bimbos Burgers - "Official Sponsor of the Irish Squad"
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You Tell Me View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


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Points: 6773 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2023 at 11:26am
Originally posted by dotts101 dotts101 wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

What can't mortgage payers pay the going rate for their mortgages and savers get the going rate for their savings? Why should savers be effectively paying for other people's mortgages?

In the UK the Bank of England base rate is currently 5.25% and you can get over 5% annual interest in an instant access savings account from multiple providers. Close to 6% is available on a 12 month fixed rate. 

The ECB rate isn't as high as the Bank of England rate so you wouldn't expect those numbers in Ireland but bank rates should be keeping pace with the ECB rate and they're nowhere near. Then on top of that, again unlike in the UK, any interest you do earn is taxed in it's entirety. Absolute daylight robbery.

So ECB jumped rates by 4.5% banks passed on average 1.75-2%. Doing well to get a rate below 4% these days.
Can't remember where i read it but once you go over 5% banks see a big increase in impairments and customers strughling to make repayments.
So from a business sense why would you want your primary income earner at risk? Therefore if you keep the rates as low as possible you help protect against this.
Whereas for savings there are options to invest and get a return higher than what it is.
We talk about a cost of living crisis and putting mortgage rates up will only impact people even worse, will stop people being able to buy so they could be stuck in rental which we know is in short supply, then have the risk of becoming homeless if landlord decides to sell then become further dependent on the state.
Now don't get me wrong before all the rate increases, no excuse for not being lower mortgage rates and were amongst highest in europe as far as i'm aware this is no longer the case

The counter argument is that if you protect mortgage holders and mortgage rates in this fashion you just end up pushing up house prices, creating a bigger barrier for first time buyers. This is then compounded by them not being able to generate savings through higher rents and little to no gain in terms of savings interest as the rates are crap. So, basically the current Dublin property market in a nutshell.

I'm not aware that the UK is a country that has a particular issue in terms of repossessions, despite the higher rates. The housing culture there is much more like it is in Ireland than somewhere like the US, where repossessions are part and parcel of homeownership.
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Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


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Points: 6773 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2023 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Obviously the power of the two pillar banks puts them off. The Irish banking sector has shrunk considerably and new players are not exactly jumping at the chance to enter it.  

Definitely in terms of setting up a full service bank it's just too difficult in Ireland at the moment. But an online savings only service is cheap and low risk so I'm surprised someone hasn't given it a go.
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