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Russian Invasion of Ukraine
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OohAah... View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 3357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 45 minutes ago at 5:32pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Political organisations like civic groups and transparency agencies. That’s different to political parties.

LOLofcourse, its the US, no alterior motive

How is funding for transparency a display of an ulterior motive?

its not a display. but do you think any of the money would go to a russian leaning politcal organisation?
With the US and its History and its Form?

Does it have to? Aren’t Russia involved in other states? Remember Sailsbury?

Yes both can be up to operations on foreign soil

And why is that relevant in the context of the war in Ukraine? It’s implication at best, and then drawing a conclusion that makes no sense.

Let me go back. As I said US have had political ( and other) interference in Ukraine pre Invasion. Ive gone back 20 years on the subject. Their form and their history would suggest to me they have had alterior motives in Ukraine( apart from the Democratic Flag waving, which their country doesnt even stand up to the test on) and have only benefiited through every stage financially even up to this very day with the latest package. Call this russian propoganda. but the bread crumbs are there and I dont think they can be dismissed as easily as you do.

You disgree. fine. But to me again if their plate was clean over there We wouldnt need to be having this conversation. but again We will be to differ.

We’re having this conversation because I have indulged the conversation a bit, even though I profoundly disagree. You might notice I’m far less willing to engage with the Donkey or that other clown TRV.

And I dont mind the debate either. And Im not here to Be Right and you Be Wrong. I just see mud everywhere in the subject and far from black and white.
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eireland View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 12 Feb 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 4160 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 44 minutes ago at 5:33pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Net effect is the same lads. and you cant argue that. Pick away at the use of the word democracy all you want. 2 proftable military machines where the electorate has no say
How is it the same? Has American invaded Mexico or Canada yet? That would be an equal bet result? Is president Bush ruling with an iron fist after 20 years in power and no end in sight?
Do you really want to go down the route of talking about Central and south American countries who' had political differemce of opinion  with the US
You've gone further south though. Like I said get back to me when the US Invades Canada or Mexico like Putin I'm Ukraine.
But why would they? They are politically  aligned. A bit like Belarus and Russia.
So look at countries nearby thay weren't politically alligned. Do I really have to mention the Cuban missile crisis? 
If Russia was in America's shoes they would have invaded Cuba and russified it. America were and still are ****s for Cuba however. Seems like your best argument to defend Russia is but America do it too. Two wrongs don't make a right. Russia is wrong, Ukraine is right.
And not just Cuba( which if you remember almost brought the world to a Nuclear War)

My argument is not defending Russia. My argument is saying America Were meddling in Ukraine politics pre invasion. They have a form for it. Did it justify the invasion No. But to absolve America( with their track record) of all responsiblity is wrong. 
It's not an argument that justifies Russia's invasion just like Russian meddling in Cuba doesn't justify the 60 year embargo. 

I'm not saying America or Russia is better I'm simply looking at this from a Ukraine Vs Russia Point of view. Likewise with Cuba I look at it from a US Vs Cuba. 

Russia and America meddle in almost any country of significance where they can. This will never justify the third party country being invaded. 

And Im not trying to justify it either. I just dont think We can absolve US interference pre invasion. And the link shows the countries the meddling went on in. Including full on Invasions... they too have form

We can still beg to differ on what We believe though. Thats fine
It's irrelevant when it comes down to saying Russia are 100% wrong for this invasion. Russia and US both meddled in Ukraine. Like I said any country invading Ukraine is completely I the wrong. 

Coming up with lame excuses is excusing colonialism and genocide something Russia specialises in.
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OohAah... View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 3357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 41 minutes ago at 5:36pm
Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Net effect is the same lads. and you cant argue that. Pick away at the use of the word democracy all you want. 2 proftable military machines where the electorate has no say
How is it the same? Has American invaded Mexico or Canada yet? That would be an equal bet result? Is president Bush ruling with an iron fist after 20 years in power and no end in sight?
Do you really want to go down the route of talking about Central and south American countries who' had political differemce of opinion  with the US
You've gone further south though. Like I said get back to me when the US Invades Canada or Mexico like Putin I'm Ukraine.
But why would they? They are politically  aligned. A bit like Belarus and Russia.
So look at countries nearby thay weren't politically alligned. Do I really have to mention the Cuban missile crisis? 
If Russia was in America's shoes they would have invaded Cuba and russified it. America were and still are ****s for Cuba however. Seems like your best argument to defend Russia is but America do it too. Two wrongs don't make a right. Russia is wrong, Ukraine is right.
And not just Cuba( which if you remember almost brought the world to a Nuclear War)

My argument is not defending Russia. My argument is saying America Were meddling in Ukraine politics pre invasion. They have a form for it. Did it justify the invasion No. But to absolve America( with their track record) of all responsiblity is wrong. 
It's not an argument that justifies Russia's invasion just like Russian meddling in Cuba doesn't justify the 60 year embargo. 

I'm not saying America or Russia is better I'm simply looking at this from a Ukraine Vs Russia Point of view. Likewise with Cuba I look at it from a US Vs Cuba. 

Russia and America meddle in almost any country of significance where they can. This will never justify the third party country being invaded. 

And Im not trying to justify it either. I just dont think We can absolve US interference pre invasion. And the link shows the countries the meddling went on in. Including full on Invasions... they too have form

We can still beg to differ on what We believe though. Thats fine
It's irrelevant when it comes down to saying Russia are 100% wrong for this invasion. Russia and US both meddled in Ukraine. Like I said any country invading Ukraine is completely I the wrong. 

Coming up with lame excuses is excusing colonialism and genocide something Russia specialises in.

I always said they were wrong to invade. But it didnt happen in a vacuum of non outside interference from third parties.

And your way off with the last sentence. and if you want to go down that route the same can be thrown at the US. 

this particular round of argument on the subject was kicked off by your cheerleading Military aid for Ukraine. a Deal which saw military aid being sent to Israel too, which is currently indicted by the ICC for genocide. but work away of going down that route


Edited by OohAah... - 5 hours 36 minutes ago at 5:41pm
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eireland View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 12 Feb 2016
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Points: 4160 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 19 minutes ago at 5:58pm
I do want to go that route and I proudly apply that same logic to the US. You saying but that applies to the US too doesn't prove me wrong because I don't like US foreign policy. 

I also never once celebrated Israel getting aid and would rather Ukraine get it instead. The more the merrier.
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