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Academies within LOI teams |
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greenshoots 
Kevin Kilbane 
Joined: 08 Jun 2021 Location: Limerick Status: Offline Points: 450 |
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 Topic: Academies within LOI teamsPosted: 18 Nov 2021 at 1:24pm |
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Seems to be lots of good young players coming through at underage in LOI clubs. Obviously lots more work being done within LOI clubs at underage. I heard a good point last week from Will Clarke I think that LOI is now a collection of clubs rather than teams. A club has a number of teams, from all the underage ranks right up to the senior teams. I did a quick review of the location of LOI clubs around Ireland and did a little map. Yes there is a focus on Dublin with 6 or 7 teams in around it and Drogheda and Dundalk up the road, but overall 1 million people live in Dublin out of 5 million in Ireland so its gonna have a larger proportion. From the map, the rest of the country isnt too badly served. It isnt feasible to have a team in every county and we have seen with the GAA anyway that just because a county has a team doesnt mean it is gonna be competitive! So should we be looking for lots of Govt funding for underage coaching, medical staff etc in each LOI team? There are 20 LOI clubs. 5 million euros funding a year gives each one 250k to spend on underage staff etc. And the govt gets some of that money back anyway in terms of tax!  |
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J89
Ray Houghton 
Joined: 25 Mar 2018 Status: Offline Points: 3589 |
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 2:10pm |
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Be quicker, easier, and probably even better if the FAI funded a full time national academy where lads can get the same level of professional training as they would abroad at clubs.
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9fingers
Paul McGrath 
Ballymun Resident #MONKEANO Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 16138 |
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 2:14pm |
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I think for some, a decent league is a positive
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shakeyshamrock
500 Club la la la 
Joined: 25 May 2011 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 577 |
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 2:20pm |
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who would they play for? |
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greenshoots
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 08 Jun 2021 Location: Limerick Status: Offline Points: 450 |
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 2:21pm |
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So would this presumably be based in Dublin? How many kids would you have at under 13, under 15, under 17, under 19? How does a National Academy in Dublin help a seriously talented under 15 lad in Cork for example? There are great FAI facilities out at Abbotstown, by all means bring the best lads together every now and again from around the country, but in my opinion the week by week work has to be done more locally where the kids can still go to school, stay with their families etc but get great coaching.
Edited by greenshoots - 18 Nov 2021 at 2:22pm |
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
Joined: 10 Sep 2021 Location: Wexford Status: Offline Points: 5137 |
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 2:42pm |
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Agreed, imo you would need an absolute minimum of 6 regional academies. I think the greater the number of regional academies, the less dilution/defection of talented young players to other codes.
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Idah Dream!
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greenshoots
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 08 Jun 2021 Location: Limerick Status: Offline Points: 450 |
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 2:51pm |
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I'm actually arguing against the notion of national / regional academies. For me the best way forward is to create the academy structures within the clubs. I'm not a LOI supporter at all by the way, no LOI agenda here. I just think if we funded the academy strcutures in clubs, we could have kids training at high levels locally each week. The point I heard last week was that clubs who now have active underage programmes are getting kids / parents to 'belong' to the clubs. An underage kid in Sligo Rovers team for example is gonna want to go on and play for their senior team and his parents, siblings, aunties, uncles etc all become invested in the club too. Eventually that transfers into greater support for the senior team in the club. The standard of football in the league goes up because our best kids are getting great coaching and fitness programmes and the best of the best kids go on to sign pro contracts here with our clubs or get offered deals abroad.
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
Joined: 10 Sep 2021 Location: Wexford Status: Offline Points: 5137 |
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 3:10pm |
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No problem if these academies are located at existing clubs, I can see the merit in it. As long as there is a good geographical spread I'd be happy. Kids/parents shouldnt have to travel for more than an hour to.from such academies.
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Idah Dream!
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Shedite
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 3:23pm |
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Anyone have kids/nephews/neighbours in those academies? Is it much of a stepup from the heritage junior clubs?
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t_rAndy
Robbie Keane
Joined: 06 Feb 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 26218 |
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 3:35pm |
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https://open.spotify.com/episode/0lEoPUr2nBzJX6xbKDH5Cq?si=Mi72nfmCT0W09kuKHoKBoQ&utm_source=copy-link
That's the Will Clarke podcast. Thought it was a great listen. Better financed academies with more full time coaches is the way to go. The proposal to have a academy certificate rating and depending on the type of certification you have drives the funding support you would get I think is they way to go. Up to then the clubs to bring their academies up to standard.. Obviously needs business and government support. We are all of the same goal of where we want to get to (best in class academies, coaching, facilities, competitive league, better stadia, more competitive international team), its just how we achieve it is the difficult part!
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AbuAbu
500 Club la la la
Joined: 25 Mar 2015 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 577 |
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 3:54pm |
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I'm actually arguing against the notion of national / regional academies. For me the best way forward is to create the academy structures within the clubs. I'm not a LOI supporter at all by the way, no LOI agenda here. I just think if we funded the academy strcutures in clubs, we could have kids training at high levels locally each week. The point I heard last week was that clubs who now have active underage programmes are getting kids / parents to 'belong' to the clubs. An underage kid in Sligo Rovers team for example is gonna want to go on and play for their senior team and his parents, siblings, aunties, uncles etc all become invested in the club too. Eventually that transfers into greater support for the senior team in the club. The standard of football in the league goes up because our best kids are getting great coaching and fitness programmes and the best of the best kids go on to sign pro contracts here with our clubs or get offered deals abroad. [/QUOTE]
Ideally yes as it gives a pathway to adult football. Might be an issue with having one in Cork and Cobh but by and large there is a good geographical spread
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It's not me it's you:-)
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Territorial
Jack Charlton
Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 11:32pm |
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Interesting discussion. I don't think people appreciate just how much it costs to run a high-quality, professional academy. You need qualified f-t coaches (plural) and top quality training facilities and pitches etc, and these aren't cheap. You also need to make provision for the academicians' education, which isn't easy (or cheap). To give an example, a decade ago the EPL introduced an academy system, also covering the 72 x EFL clubs, called the "Elite Player Performance Plan". This required all 92 clubs to have/set-up an Academy. There were 4 x levels of Academy, with the highest category requiring the highest minimum standards and expenditure (coaches, facilities, playing time etc), down to the fourth category, which was the most basic. Brentford were one of two League One (i.e. third tier) clubs at the time to introduce a Level 2 Academy. I know this entailed spending a 7 figure sum on a Training Centre/Gym and pitches at a local High School, who would be responsible for the youngsters' education. Thereafter they were spending £2m a year to run the Academy. Now as it happens, they decided after a few years to scrap it and replace it with a new "B" team concept. The reasons why are (partially) covered here: Anyhow, I mention it here only to point out that if LOI clubs were only to spend 10% of that sum on their own academies, can they really find £200k per year, every year (after set-up costs)?
Edited by Territorial - 18 Nov 2021 at 11:37pm |
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MayoMark
Moderator Group
The NEW angrier Freewheeler Joined: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Castlebar Status: Offline Points: 26318 |
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 11:52pm |
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At underage, there are also a few teams at u13, 14,15 etc that aren't LOI clubs, like Mayo. It has been a success. It does definitely dilute the schoolboy leagues but it's the price you pay. Having a team in every county would be the absolute best scenario, but I don't think there are many counties without one at this stage
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They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Territorial
Jack Charlton
Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 11:55pm |
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This might be more appropriate/affordable. I don't know exact details, but a few years ago the IFA set up its own "Club NI" to develop the best young players towards a f-t professional career. This is organised in conjunction with the Ulster University at Jordanstown, who provide sports and science facilities etc, with the IFA employing the Coaches. Afaik they board 20(?) of the best U-15 and U-16 y.o's in Belfast during thw week, where they go to a local school(s), whilst learning the game in the evenings. Their tuition doesn't just cover education or football, but also "life skills" (i.e. how to look after themselves when they go over to GB). At weekends, they go back to play for their clubs. And the next step has been to establish 3 regional centres to assess the best 13, 14 and 15 y.o.s to attend Club NI in turn. And I'm pleased to say it now seems to be beginning to bear fruit (though not all of these are Club NI graduates): |
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t_rAndy
Robbie Keane
Joined: 06 Feb 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 26218 |
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Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 12:14am |
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government should invest now so we have a good team to represent us when we are hosting the World Cup in 2030.
That’s what all the other nations going for the World Cup try to do
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Green Devil
Robbie Keane
Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Location: Barbados Status: Offline Points: 22173 |
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Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 12:29am |
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The FAI need a lot more Development Officers for a start, going in and coaching in schools especially at the youngest ages is absolutely vital. It's all about creating a positive experience for kids and get them interested in the sport first, then in turn work closely with local junior clubs to offer a pathway. Personally speaking, I don't think all LOI underage coaches need to go full time or anything but they should definitely be compensated. There should be a full academy director in every LOI club (even clubs without senior sides like Mayo, Kerry, Carlow/Kilkenny etc) and make sure every Manager, Head Coach and Coach in each team gets compensated properly. I'm coaching full time in The States at the moment, the standard is a million miles below LOI yet when I was managing a LOI underage side I didn't even get fuel expenses. It makes no sense and it's absolutely no wonder why dozens and dozens of coaches are leaving every year. Most will work 40/50 hours a week in their day job and then coach 3 nights a week on the field, do 1 or 2 sessions online and then you've a game on the weekend. You're probably talking 20hrs + week with no money? Yet you could manage a junior men's team and make a hundred a week easy. The above makes for very poor reading when you step back!! I mean the talent is there in Ireland, despite competing with the GAA, Rugby and other sports despite our small population but unfortunately it's the access time young players to have good coaching is really holding us back.
Edited by Green Devil - 19 Nov 2021 at 12:37am |
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"He drives two Ferraris; I think he's a very lucky lad to have 50 caps for Ireland,"
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smart man
500 Club la la la
Not so....... Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Status: Offline Points: 657 |
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Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 3:29pm |
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some LOI clubs are taking terrible beatings week in week out. Same coaches there for years. Local lads won't play for them. Just a joke.
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alive and kicking
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J89 wrote: